China Vs USA Machinist Vise 

The thing with china, you get wat you pay for. If you pay 200 dollars you get 200 dollars worth of vise. If you pay 1000 dollars you get a 1000 dollar worth of vise. As I see it: China offers the world the option to go for cheap or expensive, in most other countries you only get the expensive option.

Not disliking, but we are comparing a $660 vise with a $200 one. $400 gets you a whole lot of finish difference across a large quantity of these vises. Especially when considering the motto of China is: "You pay for what you get."

Hey! I'm machinist by trade, I work in a really old shop and with that of course everything from tools to machinery is pretty old. We make big stuff like axels up to about 4-5 meters, mill gears in the 1 m diameter range and so on, and what I want to say is that we make that stuff so precise in a more or less all vintage tool environment and what it all boils down to in the end is your speeds and feeds, and your rigging! You can buy your fancy 1000 dollar vises but I'd say that 50 buck 50 year old vise will do just fine. It does for me 8 hours a day five days a week all year round!

When I was testing tools for an independent testing company, some cheap tools would come in for testing chrome plated. The reason was to cheat the hardness test. The steel used had to meet a minimum hardness standard and so the hardness test had to be done on the finished product but you can't do a proper Rockwell C on the finished product (like a box wrench) because there isn't enough sidewall support for an accurate reading. This meant doing a Rockwell T test which uses a much lighter weight. For ordinary tools this would give an pretty accurate reading. For chrome plated ones, however, the test would give a false high because the weight couldn't punch through the thin chrome layer, chrome being so much harder than steel. By doing this, the manufacturer would pass the hardness test while using lower grade steel. To this day, when I see chrome on a tool, I think junk.

Lets compare a Mercedes to a Yugo....Man, I wonder which one will win! The suspense is killing me.

Thanks for the shoutout ;) It would not touch either of those vices for any work that requires any precision :D

The Chinese are amazing builders, they are capable of producing anything if your prepared to pay for it. Unfortunately people want it all cheap.

OK- buy 2 Chinese vises for 400.00 put them on a surface grinder and grind base and slides so both are the same height. Now you have 2 vises for 400.00 than can be ganged together on a mill- or spend 2000.00 for 2 of those USA units. The Chinese will do anything that 90% of hobbyists and job shops require, while the USA units will be for the other 10% of extra high precision work.

Also, you put the link to Winn, and where is the link to the Emco? This is pure endorsement disguised as a "comparison". BS

why not compare apples to oranges, you actually did the china vice a service, reasonable accuracy for less than a 1/3 of the price

Nice vice Thank you for letting us know that you were given the American vice. This will affect your review and allows us to take that into account. Some youtubers don't reveal their gifts or payments.

I want to see Germany vs USA machinist vise.Please do.

You can not expect a non American tool to be made to fit inches. That goes for the handle, the jaws and the bed height. I am not a machinist but I am guessing there is some semi standard bed height and jaw size that fit a whole unit measured in metric.

Unfortunately this has become a very biased video. I urge you to place a "contains paid promotion" notification in the video.

I would find this kind of comparison more useful if the presenter was comparing two vices of closely matched cost. $200 Vs $1200 (shipped to UK) does not need a detailed comparison!

Hello, After watching your video I checked my own 5 inch jaw Chinese vice and sure enough it had all the faults revealed in your testing. I had another Chinese vice that had been sitting in my workshop for months, acquired from a friend who had bought it to go on his drill press, it was however too heavy and he asked if I would swop a lighter K type I owned for years for it, I did so as a favour. The only superficial difference between the Chinese products was the colour, the new one blue instead of grey. The fixed jaw was perfectly perpendicular to the bed rails, as was the moving jaw. With this brightening my day I started the process shown by you in the video and the blue vice passed on all counts. The ground surfaces were superb for flatness and the base was parallel to the rails. Unfortunately I had thrown the box away and there are no markings on the vice, the test booklet has the name Accu-lock and was filled in with very close tolerances that proved correct. I know that, " ...one swallow doth not a summer make...", but you can be lucky.

Maybe for your next comparison you could compare a Bridgeport mill vs Harbor Freight mini mill. It would be as valid as this one is.

3½ times more expensive vice comparison?

As a beginner that Chinese vice for 200 is a fantastic option to get started. But i dont understand why you didn't state the price of the Winn Vice? i assume from reading the comments that it is exceptionally more expensive. so that therefore negates this comparison. id like to see a brand new $200 USA vice V a $200 Chinese or Taiwanese vice you'd soon see a difference. or even a $1000 V difference.

I am not very happy with your missing transparency and fairness of comparison. About your arrangement with Winn you only say they asked you to "send one". Do you get to keep the Winn vise? Did Winn also pay for the Chinese vise and do you get to keep it? Do you get additional compensation on top of keeping the vises? Why do you mention only the price of the import vise but nowhere the price of the Winn model. I could extend this list. Comparisons are ok because they are buying guides. It is also ok if you get payed to do it. But it would be nice if you would be open about your arrangements. That would make it easier for the viewers to assess your level of independence and therefore your credibility. Trying to appear more independent than you really are makes many viewers unhappy because they feel manipulated.

You're comparing expensive to cheap.. or better: overpriced to cheap.

holy smokes that was hard to watch... most cringe worthy when you were showing the Chinese vise jaw lift but failed to mention the set screw in the jaw that will stiffen that up so it doesn't lift like that.And you said it yourself that there were some burs on the bottom of the vise so why not stone them off before checking flatness like any good machinist would do? pretty biased it looks like

I think the comparison product should be compared with the same price product. It is fair to compare a $ 1,000 product to a $ 1,000 product.

Would have loved to see this comparison done between Kurt, GMT and Winn. Or done between cheap vises. Telling us we get a better vise for 3x as much $ is not teaching us much, and I know you want your content to be informative.

next time compare 200usd chinese vise against 200usd american vise

You can not compare $200 with a $660 vise this is stupid. You pay for what you get

I am a retired American machinist who believes in American quality & precision and other country's precision like Germany, Japan & Switzerland. But I felt you were nit-picking the chinese vice. And since you were nit-picking, I want to point out that at13:30 in your video, you incorrectly called the flatness of the rail of the Winn to be out by "ten thousandths of an inch". that's why most machinists just say "it's out by a tenth". I've always like Kurt milling vises and have 2 Mitutoyo grinding type vices. I would not trust any heavy milling on that Winn vise because of the design of the jaws. Those pins would tend to vibrate up and lose the part location under cyclic stress. Not your best video. 50% of your viewers gave it a thumbs down so just learn from it. Hopefully your credibility will return over time.

Comparing metric to imperial and calling out the Chinese vise height being different - that was a crumby move we could equally say that the USA vises in any other country in the world (with the exception of just two) would be at fault - lets see you compare a $200 USA made vise rather than the top of the range you have here. your valid points got lost in the acrimony - shame.

He is very careful not to mention the Price of the Winn Vice $660.

I kind of understand where you go with this (spend wisely) but it would be interesting can a 200.00 Chinese vise be tuned to perform like an expensive vise? Some have more time than money.

oranges vs apples not fair you get what you pay for sometimes

Now compare 600$ Chinese vise(same price as Winn) vs Winn vise, and lets see what happens. Its not enough to be a patriot, you also need common sense when comparing tools.

Once the price of the Winn vice wasn't mentioned it is clearly apparent this video is paid advertising. Praise I AM, Michael Idarecis

nice advertisement you made there

Any machinist worth his salt could make a replacement handle, cheap. METRIC or not. The finish on the depressed areas beneath the vise doesn't matter! The mounting surface of any machine vise should be stoned lightly before you mount it to the table. You ignored the most important issues... Is the surface the jaws slide over on the same plane as the mounting surface? Are the jaws flat, parallel, and VERTICAL relative to the mounting surface? Are the jaws properly hardened? Can you buy replacements? (Not every shop has heat treating facilities.)

I don't mind watching commercials, but when they are placed in the middle of the video, that prevents me from pre-buffering the video. I have a slow connection and always pre-buffer videos so I can watch them without buffering interruptions.

Why is a metric handle size suddenly a negative? The majority of the world is using the metric system, get used to it...

eh, if the vice has a hexagon for the screw that is measured in inches, then its much more likely to be a USA vice then a China vice... china works in Metric. unlike the USA and 1 other very small country.

There may be a few type-o's in the description. I sure wish Enco was still around. Nice video.

I've never taken a hammer to my vise handle. That's what pipes are for. (if I WERE to use a hammer, it would be a plastic dead-blow) And frankly, even hand pressure is enough to destroy schedule 40 pipe. My vise handle being metric is handy, because it's 19mm, which is almost exactly the same as 3/4", which fits the R8 drawbar screw on my mill perfectly, so I never have to go hunting for wrenches. Maybe the newer Chinese/Taiwanese vise handles are garbage, but mine is over 30 years old (it's a Kurt knock-off), and still fits very snugly.

This guy has no shame.

The problem is US distributors. Chinese manufacturers will provide whatever quality the distributors are willing to order. US distributors order large quantities and insist on details that lower the cost. I am speaking from experience. I know Chinese manufacturers who make milling machines of excellent quality. The ones they sell in China are beautiful. The US distributors come in and order 500 and insist on cheap bearings, lead screws and then they insist on further price reductions if the manufacturer wants the order. Otherwise, the distributor walks and finds a manufacturer who will give them the price they want to pay. In China, I can buy products off the shelf as good as any you can get in the US. The top brands never make to the US market. If they did, the distributor would have to charge US prices. They have to make a buck and this is how they do it.

Completely BS comparison and the way you did it was horrible. First off you clearly state how much the import vice was but you never mentioned the cost of the Winn vice except to tell us that Steve Winn sent it to you to review which already creates a bias. If the Winn vice is a $1000 vice then you aren’t even comparing apples to oranges unless the orange was squished and mouldy. As for products imported from China. You get what you pay for. If you were to produce a line of machinists vices and requested one that would sell for $1000 it would probably be better than the Winn vice but at the same time you can get that same manufacturer to make you a vice that you can sell for $200 so you can’t paint everything with the same brush. As an example try to find an American made vice that you can sell for $200. What would you get?

Price difference please? I think its not a fair comparison. China makes a range for all markets.

Just to add a little more trivia. Down here in the Philippines. After the war only U.S. made products are patronized because they are the best at that time. Everything Japanese made are considered junk. Then things changed. Early Taiwan made products were considered junk. Then things changed again. Early Korean were considered junk. I won't say anymore about Chinese products. Almost every corner in our cities have a store that sells purely Chinese made products. And we are happy because at last we have other options.

And now... let's compare a Porsche 911 to a Mustang

Something else I liked about the Winn vice. The anchoring holes are slotted for quick change out. Don't have to unscrew the nut completely to remov the vice from the machine.

I personally love my Shars 440V. Bed height only varies by .0002" over 6" and I've measured only a few tenths lift. You get a lot of vise these days for $300.

I'm not a machinest but as a professional cabinet maker and woodworker i do recognize the important of quality and consistency in the machinery I depend on for my living. The gulf between the two manufacturers is similarly reflected in cut rate Chinese vs professional Japanese, American or European woodworking equipment,,, but there will always be a suckers market for the cheap stuff,,,

About the curtain, I do think people like the shop background, I know I love the shop background. It is nice to be able to look at your shop while you are explaining the topic.

this is just a "I have to, if I want free shit" review. China is a country of manufacturing like any other, but if you order a vice and you want a $200 one then that's what they make for you. They provide options, plain and simple. Now a review of this Winn vice and a Kurt vice is a review worth the effort. A vw bug and a Bentley are both classed as cars, but you would be stupid to do a side by side test. Also I really wish these guys would stop saying that the company called THEM, we are not stupid, it's insulting.

This review cannot be considered in any way shape or form to be a fair comparison by comparing a $660 USD vise with a $250 USD vise. Sorry, but you cannot compare vises from two very different price points. It is just not a fair comparison, plain and simple.If both vises were from the same price bracket within $50 of each other then I would consider it a fair comparison. Try making this video again when you have two or more vises from the same price bracket.

Don`t get me wrong, I like your channel. But if you are going to give the price to one vise then also do the same to the other vice.

your talking about metric and a imperial wont interchange? well i need everything to be metric to stay consistence. so unless the US made one have a metric version i have to take the chin one.

The tone is Chinese vs USA. But really should have emphasized that this is a budget vs premium product. I mean USA manufactures crappy (though not necessarily cheap) stuff like Jeep Wranglers and China makes premium products like your iPhone. At least coming from China you will get what you pay for.

Wow that Winn vice is brilliant. Really when you look at the design,construction.and materials then take into consideration the skills needed to manufacture them and the pay rates of the workers to make them and resale value if I had the money I'd go for the Winn. If I was on a budget I'd look for a good used British, German or Winn and leave the Chinese one on the shelf.

Dale, are you aiming this at machinists or weekenders? Because machinists, when working on a budget, can overcome the relatively minor issues with the imported vise without great effort. Most weekender hobbyists can as well. We work with parallels and shims, and use squares and sometimes indicators to get our setups dialed in. If a workholding device is *grossly* out of true, then there is a major difference in the ease with which one does their setup. However, the ENCO import here is only at most 0.002" off on the flatness of the ways in ~6" - that's ~0.03%, in a direction where one is going to shim their setup if they need it more true. Which makes your comment about a ganged vise setup even less relevant... if I need to use two or more vises to hold a workpiece, using parallels in each one, it's not a big deal to use different parallels and possibly shims, to true things up. I expect that if you were to gang the Winn vise with a Kurt on the table of your mill, or even with another Winn, you will find that the condition of your table surface is such that some shimming would be required if you really need to be true to within under a mil (0.001") over the length of the work. The Winn vise has a nice fit and finish, almost to toolmaker's levels, and costs accordingly. As for the standardness of the replacement jaws, if you know how to mill, you can adapt them to fit whichever vise you will be using. You can also make your own soft jaws from aluminum. The ~$200 imported vise is perfectly serviceable ~99% of the work it could conceivably be called upon to perform, and it costs ~1/3 of the Winn. Even if you are doing this professionally - getting paid - you can only write off an expense against your income. You might need that extra $400 to buy cutting tools or consumables for a job. In short, the pretty tools are nice, but not always worth the extra money. It's a case of: "you pay for what you get..."

I did find this interesting, but would love to see a comparison of several US made milling vises. Kurt, Orange, Glacern, Yost, Suburban, others. I am not sure which are best. Best features. Best bang for the buck, etc.

I like your video. A lot of people says you are comparing a very different vises... and you are. But the vises looks very similar at first glance. When you see them in the shop you think they are similar.

Of course a US-made vice will be better than a Chinese vice, simply because no US manufacturer will produce a 200-bucks vice. There's just not enough margin to make a profit. There is no way to compare US and Chinese vices, simply because US manufacturers do not offer a 200-buck vice. There are, however, high-quality Chinese manufacturers. Prices are, of course, commensurate. Comparing a 200-bucks Chinese vice and a 15-hundred bucks American vice is not really fair.

If you are a hobby machinist or a pro on a budget, don't forget you can rebuild used Kurt vises! They are designed for it and it's easy to do. Their website has full parts listings. Most Kurts just need cleanup, inspection and minor bits. I scored four Kurts and two "good older Taiwan clones" for fifty bucks each at an estate sale. They were worth the cleanup and a bit of time on a surface grinder. (Mark your ground vises to ensure matching height if you use pairs, and identify them so you don't forget!) The Practical Machinist website has a few threads on the subject.

Could you do one on comparator stands? I see you have a few and boy those things range in price. I’d love to see what the differences are.

I liked the review but have a criticism. At 2:10 you say "I want to see if this $200 vice will compare to this vice (indicating the Winn)". What you should have said was"I want to see if this $200 vice will compare to this $660 vice" because then we know a critical bit of info. Nobody would buy low quality equipment if it's near the same price as the good stuff. The price difference is the key to deciding whether we are willing to put up with the poorer quality. Frankly after seeing the quality demonstrated, I thought the Winn would be somewhat more expensive than $660. So I think mentioning the price would have also helped it's case. In summary, when you do a comparison, compare ALL the key points not just the ones you feel are important.

I think you should be more open with the conditions for your test, you mentioned the price of the chinees vise but said nothing about the american vise just that it was sent as a gift to you. It would been mutch more interesting if you made the test against a top quality chinees vise.

The difference is for $600 you get a vice you can use in an accurate machine shop with no work past stoning the surfaces and for $200 you have to put in a little work grinding the top and bottom, but I would expect that if you found a supplier in China that makes vises for $450-500 it would have a better specification than the Winn one. A fairer comparison is if you compared it to a $200 vice built in the US. In addition neither are what I would call accurate vices, the Winn would be ok for holding 5 thou between parts and for a hobbist that is fine, but for a machinist it wouldn't do.

I agree unfair comparison price wise. Also, comparing a metric vice to an imperial vice and then complaining that nothing is compatible just shows you haven't thought the comparison through.

There is a Chinese proverb "if you pay 1 cent then you get 1 cent goods"

$660 vs $200 vise ? What’s next, Lexus vs Dodge ? How about a fair comparison ? Just a thought.

You cannot blame the Chinese for the US abandoning the lower end market.

This is 8 inch machinist vise? In China price tag is $ 100 to $ 125 US , Some excellent brand price will be $ 400 and $ 650 US.

I do like your channel in general and find allot of usefull info in your videos. im honestly dissapointed that you made one of these "advertisement in the guise of a review or comparison" videos, in exchange for a vice. I appreceate that you are open about the fact that they gave you the vise, but that dosent negate the fact that the review or comparison is basically useless because of the clear bias. Youve also set it up to make the "sponsered" vice look perticularly good by making a blatant apples to oranges comparison to a vice thats 1/3 the cost. ofcourse the vice that costs 3x more is going to be nicer, why even compare them? Speaking as one of your subscribers thats been with you almost from the begenning and really appreceate what you do and find it helpfull, I dont think this type of content is verry helpfull to us. I definatly understand the temptation, get a really nice vise in exchange for making a positive video about it. If you want to do that its up to you, its your channel, but please be honest in the title and dont call it a comparison or review because its not, its an advertisement plain and simple. There is also the option of accepting these items but being clear to the company that you plan to do an honest review, and then doing your best to present the product without bias. Many people will still not believe the presentation is 100% unbiased, because its almost impossible to get a nice gift and not see it in a more positive light than if you bought it. however, if it was clear you were making an effort to be non biased, I think I would take the "review" more seriously and find it usefull instead of being tricked into watching an advratisement by a misleading title.

I appreciate this video for its general information about vises. However, when items are received from manufacturers for free to review it is, for all practical purposes, a paid review (receiving cash, *goods* or services). Now, that is not to say that this comparison is not factually accurate, but the Internet is full of paid reviews and they are often - as in this case (comparing products with a 330% price difference) far from fair and by their nature almost impossible to be impartial. I think a comparison with a Kurt (or similar) vise would have been far more appropriate. There are many tool reviewers who will make a point of testifying to the independent nature of their reviews by refusing to accept free items from manufacturers and who buy all subject materials with their own money instead, and I will ALWAYS give them far more credibility than paid reviews.

Hey! You just made a studio (that's how studios are made in the first place.... Quick back-drop setup, good lights, "action") A studio only has to be as little/big as what the camera can see or need to be seen on film/video (the same as what it takes to make a piece/tool with machining etc) ;)

Free expensive vice verses bought cheaper vice......I think I understand your reasoning for your biased view.

Yeah, lopsided comparison base.

Haven't been to your channels in a while. Really like the new backdrop and lighting. I can tell you put in a lot of care to get that right, looks very professional.

Serious? Comparing an apple to an orange? Get two equivalent items and then compare. It's obvious they aren't the same thing nor would the Chinese manufactures claim they were equivalent at 4 times the price. Nice overview, crap comparison.

Great video! One thing, did you correct the high spot on the USA vice that you found before you checked the bed? Maybe it would have scored even better!

Love this channel I want to send you one of my wallets to review I think you would like them however something that does need to be mentioned is that you must account for when you clamp the vise in the machine when you put force into the vise thru bolting it to your mill table you cause the vise bed to warp when you measure the warp in a unloaded state you are getting a different perception of what will actually happen. however personally I only have Kurt vises in my shop period and I would definitely get a win vise to join my gang of vises....

I have a very tired ENCO vise just like that. Its pretty worn out, one side is .0025" higher than the other.

You mentioned the price of the chinese vice but not of the american. Seems like if the much higher price is the disadvantage of the american one. : )

Always nice to see what looks to be fine grade chinesium compared to the real stuff. I have one of these vices that I use occasionally. It rests on my harbor freight drill press and its used mostly for wood. Works fantastic 😅

The $200 one, hands down. You can put it in your mill, rather than just watch it in a video.

Why not do a quality comparison video between Lewis Hamiltons Formula 1 Mercedes versus a twenty grand run-a-bout Ford and you can tell us all which is made to a higher precision coz we're all desperate to find out

The ends of jaws are not flush with the body so you can't add a part stop.

My father was working as an engineer for Radio Communications of America when WWII broke out. Westinghouse equipment was exactly copied by the Japanese. But the control knobs worked differently. Say you want to increase volume. You turn the knob counter clock wise instead of CW. Do they read and write from right to left? I hear the Arabs do that. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong please.

Very disappointed in this biased comparison as I've come to expect good solid advice from you. A 23 minute video to conclude that a $200 vice is worse than a $660 one (had to look up that price on their website since you didn't mention it in the video?!). You could have saved a lot of time by recording a 20 second video where you said "You get what you pay for" and "Buy once, cry once". I really hope you take the opportunity to adress the negative feedback given in all the comments and make a fair comparison by geting a equally priced (~$650) vice from china and compare it to the Winn. You could also do it the other way around and get a $200 "Made in the USA Vice" and compare it to the Enco.

As a former toolmaker I wouldn't use one of these both. I've worked a lot with the full hardened grinding vises on a surface grinder. They're really accurate buth aI don't prefer them on a milling machine ( I don't trust the clamping force of it to withstand the milling force). The best vise I ever worked with is the type 'Gripos' from Gressel or 'NC compact spanner' Rhöm. Really accurate on the long term and with enough clamping force for heavy CNC roughing

I still am using my KURT vise I bought new over 50 years ago, there in no better vise in the world, will last a life time.

so... a $200 tool is not up to par with a tool that costs $1000 or more..... wow.....

Why does the vise even matter if ex. you are running OP2 in soft jaws. Whatever alignment issue would be compensated by the CNC during OP1 and when cutting the jaws. Why the fanatisism?

If you have consistent movement you can adjust for accuracy surly not. So it's 4 thou out, all the time,, could you not put a 4 thou shim to make up for this. I know it's not ideal for a master machinist but was just thinking if someone hasn't the cash, can't remember the price difference. But this did make me think of the guy zeroing his scope who got one bullet center mass and then the rest spread in a 2 inch group around it, then you had the other guy who's bullets all ended up 4 inches out but with a spread of a 1/4 of an inch. Food for thought maybe. Great video

No idea what these are used for or what you're doing, but for some reason I enjoyed watching.

That china-made does not even match the standards of any old worned-out vise that we use/keep/recycle for drill-presses (my boss did not bought cheap vise for his milling-rig. He bought new ones for the millings, and gifted the drill-presses)

I feel like this guys vids could be half the length. I lose interest with all the pre-amble and small talk.

hehe. I actually didn't know mill vises came with handles until I started shopping for one. The guys in the tool room use wrenches on the vise screws

You really need to test for tensioned accuracy with a vise on the machine. While the Winn wouldn’t improve much, the cheaper vise would improve more. The differences would shrink. Long time accuracy might not be equal. I’m adding to my 3 year old post. I didn’t think of it then, but I use, among others, Snap-Jaws. These work on any Kurt comparable jaws screw size and spacing. You replace the regular screws with low head screws. Then the jaws just slip on and off. There is a small hole which the hex wrench goes through to tighten the screws with. People are idiots if the use a hammer on a mill vise handle. You don’t have to exert that much pressure. If you need a hammer, you’re doing something wrong. This isn’t a fair comparison, because one vise costs about three times as much as the other. Maybe try an expensive Chinese vise. There are some good ones. The Vertex is a good example. It’s a fine vise. You can’t gang ANY two vises together without contacting the manufacturer before buying them and specifying two or more for that purpose, and they will grind them, and charge you for that. Go to Kurt’s site, and take a look.

They are not in it for quality for our markets. They are into the money, in bulk. Second is work for their people third is return customers.

The test really should have been done torqued to the mill bench, plus the vices react different when warm or cold, there are quite a few uncountable variations not taken in account.

You need to disclose if a company compensates you in any manner for an endorsement like this. Yeah, it's the law