"Good intentions" is not what happened in Chinatown... Jake BROKE HIS BALLS to save them...KNOWING he could be killed at any point....THAT IS REAL HEROISM...AND he was looking at redeeming his own past ... where he got crushed by crooks in the past and believed the MOTHERF*CKERS could not be beaten... But... as this insanity developed...he ALMOST could not resist becoming involved in "the good fight" again.... Unable to remember his post police Dept cynicism...JUST SUDDENLY ..LIKE A CAT SEEING RAT...RESPONDS WITH INSTINCT NOT RATIONALITY...
Thank you for posting this. I saw Chinatown in 1974 on its first night in theaters, before the public knew anything about it, and maybe before reviews had come out. I'll never forget seeing this for the first time, misreading clues along with Gittes, and completely shocked by Evelyn's secret and the ending. It took several minutes to work out that Katherine was from a father/daughter rape, so unusual was incest as a theme in a mainstream film at that time. One week before, I watched the trailer and felt little anticipation. I thought, oh Jack Nicholson is doing his Bogart imitation in a period piece movie. But, that homage set up the audience to be beguiled right up to the denoument. In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up. Or so we thought. I was hoping that Towne would mention the film location for Gittes' drive through the avocado or orange grove, being ambushed, and then being rescued by Evelyn. It's set in the western San Fernando Valley, but the only intact ranch from 90 years ago, that I know of, is the Orcutt Ranch on Roscoe Blvd. in what is now West Hills or Chatsworth. Does anyone know where that sequence was actually filmed? Thanks.
According to the IMDB, that scene in the orange grove is filmed at Walter Brennan's old ranch in Moorpark, CA on Sunset Valley Drive. I think Brennan was alive at the time.
"In Philip Marlowe's universe, the good guy got the girl, wrongs were righted, the bad guys got punished, and the world remained right side up." - Is that so? Tragic endings were one of the main characteristics of film noirs. The Chinatown ending is a classic film noir ending and was nothing new in 1974. Actually, many mainstream movies back then didn't have a happy ending.
@@jefdarcyWhile tragic endings occur in classic film noir, they do not occur in the Phillip Marlowe film adaptations in the 1940s (or 1950s, if they exist). Nevertheless, Chinatown is clearly a revisionist detective film, much like The Long Goodbye (1973).
1:45 Lovely words about the Goldsmith score. Agreed this is his finest work. I saw this film twice in a first run theater and the score is so haunting, such an exquisite part of the film that I couldn't quite hum it after leaving. "The solo trumpet has such a mournful, lonely quality..." perfectly stated!
First soundtrack I ever bought - I was 15. I saw it on Oscar night and when Towne won later on, watching it at home I commented as he went down the aisle "Oh, that's that music that I liked!"
Polanski's framing has always seemed natural, definitely idiosyncratic, but right to me. Actually, in anamorphic, with its numerous technical challenges, and especially this era, Polanski's framing is phenomenal.
Well, now I have to see it again-for the fourteenth time. No movie has ever come close to moving me the way Chinatown has. Nothing even begins to compare.
Glad everyone knows Fincher enough to know that this is slightly out of character for him, to be such a dork in front of Robert Towne. Count the amount of times he says something is great or perfect. Can we all also agree that this is one of the top tier film commentaries of all time?
Jerry Goldsmith was modeling his solo trumpet theme after Copeland's "Quiet City" solo trumpet, to show contrast in depicting a not quiet LA in the story. Some of Fincher's comments are insightful, but I'd rather have heard Towne speak a lot. My favorite movie of all time. I can recite the script verbatim from Curly's moaning to "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown." Thanks so much for posting.
It's a masterpiece. Artists are not necessarily the best interpreters of their own creations. Psychoanalytic theory suggests that the artistic process involves the artist's unconscious.
I didn't know this commentary existed. Thank you for posting it. The great thing (among others) about the script is that it all seems so complicated for so long and then the revelation allows all the elements of the plot to fall into place. You wouldn't have to see 'Chinatown' again to understand the plot, but you could equally watch it again to see how it was all achieved. I also really like that as smart and street-wise Gittes is, he still keeps putting the pieces together and coming to the wrong conclusions (understandably), or miscalculating the final confrontation.
***** Ah, Gittes keeps missing his points because he betrayed himself as the discreet detective and became her lover...the same mistake he made in Chinatown ... he would have found the glasses the first time if he wan't overcome by his sexual desire for the woman, his hermatia; the ending is fantastic as it works through everyone's POV based upon the information and judgements they make about the situation...everyone was wrong and the bad guy gets away with the girl...albeit his daughter...which raises a lot of questions as a twist. I speak about the screenplay...they didn't depict the original ending of the screenplay in the film.
Linda Burdick Those are very interesting points. I did read that the Towne script ended with Evelyn and Catherine being driven to Mexico and Cross being frustrated on that point at least.
***** Gittes wants to be the hero but couldn't become one; he oversteps his limits and created a situation where he wan't helping her by just serving his own inner need because he is jealous of Escobar. His behavior is a repeat of what they previously experienced in Chinatown and he has not learned anything from it.
***** I respectfully disagree as Gittes' inner motivations trump the broken light/vision allegory within film analysis. The screenwriter proves his character arc doesn't grow. He can see, and it is determined within the first five pages of the script that Gittes values the discreet ways he has vision in a superior way that others do not. Towne didn't intend for this allegory you speak about. he even says that, so hhis thoughts are also primarily upon Gittes' inner and outer motivations.
***** He is not a hero, but wants that. He fails because once again, he chose it...that's the difference. The glasses etc serve as a metaphor if you so choose, as you like, the metaphor doesn't make him choose anything. It's not a lack of vision, it's pride etc. an inner conflict, a flaw; I can't use metaphors to describe and write in a protagonists actions and choices as a screenwriter. He acts, he does, he chooses, or not. His inner conflict and flaw is not lack of vision. There is no such thing as that for a hermatia, it's one of the seven deadly sins and actions rooted within them. Jealousy, lust, and pride rule this guy and he needs to overcome those inner conflicts in order to become the hero.He does not overcome any of them. I hope this clarifies the point of dinstinction between the two.
One of my favorite movies ever. BEAUTIFULLY done and the score is fantastic. Acting is spot-on and screenplay is superb. It captures a time and place and events. Wishing Roman Polanski was able to still make movies in this country. He has exceptional talent.
I'm 74 and in the '50s-'65 my folks and I would go the pt fermin park . I got a coke from walkers many times . Later in my 20s-40s also . The fact that it is in my fav movie just makes it sweeter 👍 p.s. We would scramble down to the rocky shore and sometimes divers were bringing up abalone and my dad would buy 3 or 4 . Love them ❤
If you appreciate this film, this commentary is very insightful. One of THE great films of 20th Century American film. 2:04:25: “…Chinatown is not a place you can actually go to, 'cause it's a state of mind.”
In the US, if you only have the original Paramount Home Entertainment version, or only the Paramount Collector's edition of this film on DVD than you don't have this commentary track. It's only on the Paramount 2-disc CENTENNIAL edition. And if you don't have any other edition from another country you don't have this soundtrack. So if all you have is a version on DVD without the commentary, you can rip the DVD to your computer and then download this commentary track as an audio file. Then you can play BOTH in VLC Media Player simultaneously and switch between the commentary or just regular film audio. Film> Advanced Open File> Choose the Chinatown video file as the movie then check the "Play another media synchronously" box to select this audio track!
I'm listening and am at the eating scene commentary. I find it interesting what Fincher (who I don't find in the least bit pretentious) says about eating in Hollywood movies. I was of the same opinion myself. It's so different than what you see in asian movies or tv dramas, To be honest, I'm not always quiet sure who is talking. To me, their voices are quiet similar. But I'm guessing from the comments, it's mostly Fincher. Before this, I listened to the point blank commentary, between Boorman and Soderbergh which is more two sided.
Francis Ford Coppola includes eating scenes in all his Godfather movies, and cooking scenes too. He makes a point of doing so, and to great effect. (See his lengthy Godfather commentaries, also on RU-vid.). So why Fincher carries on so about filmmakers "avoiding" eating scenes is peculiar. I'm not sure it's true. There's a memorable restaurant scene in "When Harry Met Sally" - remember "I'll have what she's having".?? -As a matter fact more than one eating scene in that film. Several eating moments in Miss Congeniality." A great many eating scenes/dinner parties over the course of Downton Abbey. More than one in "The English Patient." Westerns frequently have chuck wagon scenes. I could go on. Of course the moronic cartoon character movies Hollywood comes out with these days don't have eating scenes - cartoon characters don't eat.
Final scene-Ord Street(CHINATOWN) which is considerably bigger than ''a block and a half.'' That finale in which the credits rolled was in harmony of the times, and lack of pretention which fills every crack of society today.
It's wonderful to listen to Towne's reminiscences of his own Los Angeles history and upbringing as well as his experiences writing Chinatown as well as during the production of the film. The serendipitous and felicitous combination of a superb script by a supremely talented and skilled writer, A-list director, actors and production designer, plus the at-once seedy, glamorous and depraved setting of early Los Angeles, (not much changed, may I add) superbly rendered, has not been equaled since. Indeed, Chinatown is the first time this particular synastry has been achieved on film since Casablanca, with the possible exception of The Godfather.
The film is amazing. I remember being a little kid and hearing adults talk about it occasionally, and cryptically reference the famous, "Forget it, Jake...." line at the end. At that age of course I was like, "Why the hell do they care so much about this movie," ya know, kinda one of those movies with a lot of subtlety, slow build-up, tons of scenes of just dialogue, not a whole lot of showy/sensational scenes, so not something little kids usually "get." Hell, I know plenty of adults who wouldn't be able to sit through it without getting bored (which, believe me, is a mark against those people, not the film). Now it's hands-down one of my all-time favorite films, definitely a "desert island pick."
I had to cue up another streaming site with this one but it was worth it. Like a masterclass private screening. Now lets head over to The Ivy for a late supper fellas. I hear they've got stone crabs as a special!
Fantastic commentaries, i just realised how Jack Nicholson voice and Johnny Depp voice in the ninth gate sound similar, now i can't help but imagining John Huston in the mumbo jumbo scene...🤣The nine gates of the kingdom of Chinatown... Being french the name Gittes makes me think of "get this" maybe it was intended like that.What a great movie...and script
The film is truly superb and this would have been nicer if we had heard more from Robert Towne, although he does talk quite a bit about Chinatown in his long interview with the Writers Guild, which you can find on RU-vid. This is mostly Fincher gushing on and on about how much he loves everything, but it does serve to illustrate the craftsmanship of filmmaking and the finer points of creating movie magic. The tragedy of filmmaking today is that none of the talentless corporate entity bureaucrats that produce films would ever make a movie like this. The only ideas they can come up with are that the world needs more cartoon movies. Yawn.
Have been binge-watching analyses of 'Chinatown' but this takes the biscuit. It's fantastic! Everyone else bangs on about Gittes's vanity and his wanting to be a hero, the latter which for some reason I found unconvincing. And then here I get the real reason. He pursues the matter because he's pissed off at getting his nose slashed, and wants revenge (43:25). Of course, as obvious as the nose on one's face (pun intended), except I hadn't thought of it.
Surprising to hear Fincher say he's never been able to find Ida's bungalow court and he assumed it was long gone, because the address is on IMDB, and I've googled it and used the maps function, toggling up and down the street. It's there, and looks the same pretty much although the surrounding blocks are quite changed. I wish I knew how to contact him to let him know how easily he could find it.
FYI, Fincher, it is not unusual for the TACK room on a wealthy man's ranch to have seating, such as chairs or a loveseat. Riders like to sit and relax with friends when they may be in dusty clothes or muddy boots after riding. Fincher thinks with such a pedestrian, in-the-box mind. How he ever got in the film business is astounding.
Remember when you'd go to Blockbuster & rent or buy a movie that had tons of special features including commentaries from the filmmakers? Who are the morons who decided they would rather stream a movie on their phone? I want names!!
The more you know of writers and actors, the more you realize, how little they actually invented. John Huston, for example, was just barely more moral than his character. The Hollywood stories of his willfulness and self-indulgence are legendary.
Fincher is a man who clearly has only a passing interest or even acquaintance with history of any kind - particully the history of Los Angeles. A zanjero was the man who managed the "zanjas," the acequias (ditches) that carried water to the fields and farmlands. The zanjero was an important figure in city government - more important than a mayor actually Towne is not quite technically correct - the zanjero was not a "water carrier." The zanjero managed the distribution of water, so farmers' livelihoods depended on the decisions of the zanjero. Mulwray, in the story.
Fincher's lack of familiarity with upper class life is all over his remarks. He often sounds like some goofus from the sticks. As is his ignorance of history or anything that happened before he was born.
Great commentary but why on Earth at 54:00 do they say “painting out Morgan Freeman’s name”? Check it out for yourself - it’s bizarre and I’d really like to know why Morgan Freeman is mentioned here.
Looking back , there is no way Chinatown could not be made today. The movie is about water and today's studio woud ask why not it be about drugs or gambling or prositution to which I'd reply those three things you mention does not affect everyone where water effects all of us. Above all, Rober Evens was both the producer and ran Paramount, so there was no buffer. Today, every studio clown would chop throught the script with a billion revisions. For me, Chinatown is the golden standard of the last great period of films, the ealy 1970s.
It's a helluva lot more about Robert Towne than David Fincher since Towne did the screenplay. Since Polanski was of course unavailable Towne is the next best resource. He was there!
Who will be the next Towne? Tarantino is equally great, but in a different genre, and he is not planning on a long continuing body of work. His dialog has set a new standard. Towne, though, made the great stories.
I was almost murdered by mob owned NOPD ...I was being stalked by them at the time I first saw this movie on TV.....I WAS STUNNED...I really identified with Jake and KNEW I had to keep going ( I was trying to get patient murders investigated and the murderers arranged to shut me up) One of the murderers was my MD husband...the other was his best friend who was married to a mob NOPD.....obviously GOD intervened on my behalf....but I was SO out of my league on how psychopaths operate.. It is no exaggeration to say to this movie helped me hang on...and helped me survive. ...and yes....the murderers got away with it... But ONE of the mob NOPD went to Federal prison on evidence I was able to get the DOJ to look at..... Because two good NOPD were too scared to go to the DOJ...they gave me the evidence ..They only took the chance because ANOTHER GOOD NOPD was thought to be working with DOJ and was executed in broad daylight in downtown New Orleans in an elaborately covered up plot that managed to get the patsy beaten to death .....by over 100 cops most of whom did not know what was really going on... SO THESE GOOD GUYS PARTICIPATED IN A MURDER.....SET UP BY CROOKED COPS....SO NO ONE HAS COME FORWARD TO THIS DAY...
Who invited Fincher to the party? Every other film he makes is a giant goose egg. His commentary adds precious little. He has almost no questions for the actual writer of the film!! Love hearing how he'd do a scene better than Polanski. What an utter tool.
Literally the very start. Pressing play on both video/audio at the exact same time would be ideal. By about 2:55 you can hear just the movie in this commentary track and you'll see how the audio matches up with the actors speaking.
1:37:26 Fincher must be pretty stupid... He says he has never been able to find the Ida Sessions bungalow but the house is at THE EXACT ADDRESS that is given to Gittes over the phone!!
@@al1976-v7m He says that it might have been torn down. If he knows the address then he'll be able to find out if the house is still there. What he says makes no sense.
+LarryPokeTrainer I read the original screenplay - it didn't have a happy ending. I am not talking about the production screenplay, which is what we see in the movie.
Many years ago, before Robert Towne had accepted Polanski's changed ending, I read that Towne ended it like this: Everything converges on a Chinatown street, like in the film, only Evelyn shoots and kills Noah Cross. The clouds open up in a rainstorm, and Noah's death ends the drought as Evelyn and Gittes embrace. I don't remember where I read this. It didn't say if Escobar and the other cops were there, or if the whole thing would be explained away as self-defense, witnessed by cops, case presumably closed.
The twists keep spiraling right up until the last moment in the original screenplay. I enjoyed the ending the best. The happy ending isn't satisfying... neither is the Polanski version... for me.
When Jack and Faye were filming the “slap” scene Faye felt that to make it more authentic Jack should actually slap her. So that’s the way they filmed it.
Hey Robert. Great job on that movie you wrote/produced/directed as an ode to your pansexual freak of a girlfriend: Patrice Donnelly (a known sexual predator).
It's a pity that this talk isn't underlaid by stills from the movie. It would be so much more instructive. Although those of us who love the film know the shots by heart. Fincher doesn't really understand or relate to the thirties or the history of early Los Angeles and mostly talks film technique, so it's easy to see why he's so gaga over the period setting, whereas Towne grew up with it, which is why the film is so authentic and lush with period detail. Nothing beats writing what you know. Great credit goes to the production designer for realizing Towne's vision. How the film looks is a huge part of of conveying the air of early LA wealth, decadent glamour and corruption that the story requires.
lol if you don't want to hear commentary, why the fuck are you listening to the DVD commentary for this film? Chinatown is a very densely layered, complex piece of art, I could talk anyone's ear off for days about it. Nothing pretentious about that.
Way too much Fincher. Not nearly enough Towne. Most of Fincher's commentary is boring technical stuff. Towne is a very articulate and interesting man with a lot to say (as interviews with him prove). Very disappointing to hear Fincher just run over him.
Benjamin Kerstein Your comment shows no understanding of life. Commentaries are what they are - conversations. A one-off conversation. Fincher was the perfect enthusiastic guy to draw the info from Towne.
+Steve Russell What info did he draw? Towne starts to discuss the scene in the secretary's office, and Fincher just ignores him. Towne manages to return to the subject, but by that time it's too late. Fincher's just listening to himself talk.
Fincher is trying to get Towne to talk but Towne seems to have very little interest in his own screenplay or at least little interest in the film. Man of few words for sure.
Exactly. If Fincher wasn't there, nothing would happen. It's a commentary, not a perfect conversation. All commentaries are disjointed. What's wrong with millennials?