Chopin "Torrent" Etude (Op.10 No.4) - Speed limits 

I think we will never know at which speed the old composers played. IMO everything is played way too fast nowadays, a sign of the times we live in maybe where people don't have time nor patience anymore.

Yes Pianoforte instruments were built more simple, allowing faster speed but, IMO, during the beginning of the 20th century the average playing speed was raised and raised like it was a competition or some kind of show off how technically advanced they were. Vladimir Ashkenazy is a good example of this, listen to his CD recordings of Beethoven. I think he played everything 2x too fast just to show off how incredibly advanced he was which indeed, he was. But although perfectly played, i think nothing much of it did any justice to the compositions.

Actually, older pianos of Czerny time are less adept to playing fast. They lack a repetition mechanic, which reduces the possible speed drastically. Even Chopin played a piano without repetition

Actually it depended on the manufacturer. Chopin preferred pianos with lighter action, that’s why he always played on Pleyels. Liszt preferred a heavier action, that’s why he had a Bechstein, that has keys as heavy as our pianos.

​​​​​​@@DBMMMMMExcept we have recordings of students of people like Liszt or grand pupils of Chopin. We even have recordings of Rachmaninoff playing their own works. In general, Chopin and Rach is played a decent bit faster than it is nowadays, whilst it varies more with the Liszt stuff. More lyrical Liszt works are usually played faster whilst the rest of his output is played slower. (With some exceptions for all of these)

ty

Thank u then😊

@@H4EAproof or it didn’t happen

@@DJKHALED74629 gimme your discord ill play in call

But like not rn cuz its 1am here in Poland

Welcome 🤗

It is sped up. Its obvious when u look at the way his hands fall on the keys.

Definitely sped up

No it’s not sped up, and now it’s been long time that everyone knows about Richter version which is slightly faster than Cziffra, are u just learning about this rn ?

@@pianoman1857 that video is sped up, it doesn't even look natural at all

@@pianoman1857 I said it was not sped up because I read an article a few years ago which mentioned that. Unfortunately I can't recall the source now.

He reacted to one of her videos before! 😆

​​@@SuperTicklemonstersif you don't play like Wim, you don't play the composer's intended tempo and therefore are a terrible musician and an even worse pianist and human being. I like her tempo and her style😁

​@@Pablo-gl9dj However, wouldn't it be an interesting experiment to play it @44 ? Just to compare the experience @88? I would love to hear it at that slower speed! 😊

@@willemvanderroest6215 nothing prevents you from listening to any tempo that you desire

@@Pablo-gl9dj Sure you are right, and i did; I stated my point not clearly enough. I meant for her to play it at that slow speed to hear her evaluation about that experience. 😉

I’m confused

@@faccc I guess she edit and cut off the end part of video. She say that you practice slow can become faster.

yeah

It’s important to note that 88 tempo is in alla breve. The final tempo is actually 176

@@kunalex4236 ye sure I know, no worries ;)

My teacher said I haven’t a chance at perfecting the Revolutionary(I already learned it but can’t play it well), yet Torrent is a perfect fit for me🧚‍♀️

He also played the revolutionary unusually fast, but that was less convincing for my taste.

willemkossen. No, you’re not the bad guy, but you lack knowledge. Sure, this is meant to be a race, the composer tells us so. No, there is no time here for the deep nusical expressions. As you may know, the composers used a variety of Italian words to express emotions and moods. But in this etude we do not find a single such word. The Itaian words in this etude only tell of dynamic variations as well as different tempi. Chopin suggests «Presto con fuoco», it means «very quickly and with fire». Further out in the piece (3:40) it gets even worse. Chopin composes a series of great leaps in the left hand, and in addition, Chopin says: «con piu fuoco possible». Therefore, we understand that Chopin provides no information about a slow pace. As for the big leaps in the left hand, it’s important to recall that the keys back then were narrower. That means the long leaps were a little shorter then than now.

The challenge is to play at the tempo indicated by Chopin and bring out the character of the music, con fuoco, which Annique does brilliantly. As for 'unplayable', this video proves it isn't - these etudes aren't meant for the average hobby pianist. Chopin only allowed his best pupils to attempt them. They are studies for would-be virtuosi. There is a weird belief around at the moment that 'musicality' is impossible at high speeds. I wonder what holders of this belief mean by 'musicality'? I know the thoroughly debunked theory you refer to; it wants to make everything fast quite slow, and everything slow twice as slow. Why? What's the point? If you only enjoy slow music, there is plenty of it around without turning genuine allegros into larghettos and prestos into andantes.