Chris picks up a random issue of X-Men to look at how many dialog cliches pop up, based on Chris Claremont's recurring tropes. / comictropes / comictropesshow
Nimrod was the name of a Biblical character, a hunter. I believe Bugs Bunny was the first to use it as an insult toward Elmer Fudd, mocking his hunting ability. But I think the joke was lost on people and they took it as a general insult like dummy or, well, numbnuts. It's an awkward, if perfectly cromulent, name.
Nimrod is a king, probably an actual historical king of Babylon; many kings fit the Bible's description somewhat, especially Sargon of Akkad and Hammurabi. The "king as a skilled hunter" motif was common in Babylonian art, and the story of Nimrod seems to allude to this, possibly in a mocking way.
This business about the expository nature of some of Claremont's dialogue has to be credited to Jim Shooter. Shooter was trained by DC editors and one of the things he brought to Marvel was making any random issue of any comic, comfortable for a potential new reader! I think he said every Marvel comic could be SOMEBODY'S first issue so the trick was to give them enough to know what's going on and at the same time, make them want to come back for more! Some people might be critical of this method but Marvel sold a ton of books during Shooter's tenure so he obviously knew what he was doing!
I think it definitely helped bring in new readers at that point in time. I was one of them. But I also think there's a difference between some story exposition and lengthy dialog. Certainly Claremont had more word balloons than, say, a Steve Gerber story around the same time.
This video has explained so much to me. Between scantily clad Storm and all the villainesses in S&M gear, I now understand why I was such an ardent X-men fan when I was 13.
I'm from Ireland, and we spell words the same as the British do, 'daemon' isn't our way of spelling demon. 'Daemon' is simply how it was spelt back in the mid 16th century. Also, it's a Lovecraftian way of spelling it to give the word more of a classical, demonic or magical vibe.
Wolverine constantly saying "bub" is one of my favourite jokes about comics. I think the gamegrumps did like a 3 minute bit while playing an X-men game. Thank you Claremont.
I remember reading this arc when it was coming out. Crazy stuff but high-stakes fun. Thanks for randomly grabbing it. Claremont was the writer who drew me into comics.
11:50 Nimrod is a character from the Bible--Genesis. He's a mighty hunter, and Bugs Bunny referred to Elmer Fudd as a "nimrod", genuinely--people didn't get it, and assumed it means "idiot" or whatever, and lo, NIMROD, IDIOT MUTANT EXTERMINATOR is born.
You forgot his use of the interjection of Cripes! Nimrod is a great hunter that the Bible makes one slight reference in Genesis but his book has been lost thousand of years or never existed.
In the book 'Marvel: The Untold Story' it is mentioned how Claremont would get on everyone's last nerve with his over-affection of anything Brit-o-phile/Gaelic/Celtic/UK-based, etc etc (see: Daemon)
I'm sure someone has commented this before, but daemon isn't the "British" spelling of the word, it's the latin word for a.. lesser type deity or a spirit. The reason it was (I can't see too many people today in the UK using it, unless you're a wordy ponce like myself) utilised so frequently over here is how central "The Classics" were to a lot of our education system. Hell even my Mother's generation were still being taught latin in school. Again dude love the content, you deserve a lot more subscribers than you have currently. You're easy to watch and clearly have a great passion for the medium. If you're ever in the UK again shout me up my dude, I'll get you a pint.
I know you won't read this but Nimrod was the name of a very powerful biblical king who was the great grandson of Noah. He's a "mighty one in the earth" and a "mighty hunter before the lord". I think he is also seen as one who is a rebel against god. Anywho, he was powerful and that's probably why they named that character as such.
I also grew up with Claremont X-men when I was at Bard College. Later when I was a a case manager at a women's homeless shelter in the Bronx, New York City I ran a creative writing group. Chris is an alumni of Bard so I asked him to speak to the group. He was great fun and I think the writers appreciated the intimate interaction with a celebrity.
I really liked this issue, but yowza, you picked one of his more tropey issues. You were also a bit kind on some of the tropes you could have named. Like tentacles and women, Selene having tentacle arms, or characters transforming/getting hurt and losing almost all their clothes (although that is common in a lot of comics but Claremont did it more than most).
Nimrod is Hebrew for "hunter." The only reason people think it's an insult is because Bugs Bunny called Elmer Fudd one sarcastically, sort of like "Oh yeah, you're a real killer of men."
Just discovered your channel with the Rob Liefeld tropes. Love the videos, and what I love even more is that you're local! Tacoma local here. Grew up in Seattle and moved to Tacoma for cheaper rent. These videos are amazing. Keep up the great work.
I'm currently reading Claremont's X-Men for the first time and I'm shocked there was no mention of "ruby quartz visor", "weather witch" or "bionic housings built into his arms". Though at least reference is made to Claremont's many, many repeated phrases and shortcuts. I also would have counted Claremont's tendency to tell a scene rather than show it. That's easily the biggest drawback of his writing. I love the stories but there are so many times where something would be described and I'd think "well, it would have been nice to see that, Chris."
Yowza! You might be the best at what you do but I got better. Now, I'm nigh invulnerable. Bang you're dead! But then I thought to myself: Is it my fate to be more beast than man? Lo, how the might have fallen!
Man i have to say i never like comics i use to think they were just lame and losers read them, but i dont know how ended up watching one of your videos and it really got me hooked, i dont know if i could say i love comics i sure love your videos men, you have a really funny way to describe what happens on them, keep em comin, you got a fan here on chihuahua mexico!
This was awesome. My best friend and I used to laugh at all of these and one or two more when we were in high school (around when that issue came out actually). Glad to see we're not the only ones who noticed. lol
The explaining their powers thing is not so much a writer trope but more an editorial thing. I remembe almost all Marvel comics during those time when Jim Shooter was EIC, had that. Even Spidrr-Man.
I've just reread Claremont's Excalibur-run and I've spotted his most used trope: Writing the plot so girls can get some new, sweet clothes. The whole run is pretty much "wonderful, amazing wardrobe of their greatest Pryde!"
I never saw any of these tropes as a negative. Claremont's writing style allowed any new reader to pick up the book at any point and quickly grasp the characters, their motivation, and abilities. After he left the X-books they became a directionless convoluted mess without an entrance point for new readers,
i'm surprised one of the tropes wasn't his blatant favoritism of Storm lol. In the long run it worked for Storm and fleshed out her character, but it's still super obvious at times
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lol !!!! some gin and a classic X-men comic. This comic was a good find. Vision vs Colossus ? What a sick match up. We have some good X-men back issues, if you like what's in your 1st comic beast box and decide to get another, request some X-men ! We know anything past 1990 your not into so as we get new comics in, and I see comics I know you would like, i put it to the side in case you order again in the future.
Over explaining their powers could also have been Jim Shooter's EIC style. Shooter believed every comic was somebody's first comic so explanations would be dropped in.
Also, Clearmont & Romita jammed a helluva lot of story/characters into these 2 issues. Maybe the MCU could do this as a way to do a sick ass Avengers & X-men team up movie? I know they wont tho!
I remember that book as a teen. Liked it, but yeah should have been better. It played a lot like a "What if" book, which I RARELY liked because the Heroes are "suddenly ", incompetent and easy to kill. LOVED CLAREMONT though, and his skill ,creativity and Passion for our merry mutants. Phoenix, Hellfire Club, "Good Maneto", Rogue, Mystique, Sinister,Sabretooth, Gladiator and The Shi'ar, the Brood, Binary......So MANY great creations.
I am a very big fan of Claremont's run on X-Men and even had the pleasure of meeting him in 2009 at Florida Supercon. I had been unfamiliar with this part of his run. My perception is that it's very under-collected as I had been familar with Claremont and Cockrun, Claremont and Byrne, the later parts of him with Silvestri and also Lee. The trade "The Gift" helped because this issue (and the other part of the story are collected there. It's a very fun comic story, but a very odd, esoteric one.
The mid-80s era when Storm replaced Cyclops as leader, Magneto reformed and became headmaster of the New Mutants and before X-Factor. It was before the big crossover events like "Mutant Massacre". John Romita Jr's artwork wasn't as pretty as his dad's but he was solid and a clear storyteller.
1. The reason why some of the tropes exist is because Claremont is following a rule Stan Lee followed, and Jim Shooter later enforced: every issue is somebody's first issue, so what's going on, who these people are, what they do, and why they're doing it needs to be clearly explained, which Claremont does quite economically. 2. Other tropes provide "character tags," what Blake Snyder called a "limp and an eyepatch." Like in Star Trek: TOS, that certain characters are going to say and/or do certain things that are unique to them.
