A comparison of the two versions of the Divine Office; the abridged single volume "Christian Prayer" and the full 4 volume set of the Liturgy of the Hours.
@@whojowaffles970 its thr "Stundenbuch-Stundengebet" app, though its only in german and latin. They do have an english version for the compline aswell. Though if you want to have musical notes activated for that youd have to have a bilingual mode activated with german and english side by side(because the notes are only there for german, but technically applicable to all texts) play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=stundenbuch.komplet
@@whojowaffles970 I began with Laudate application and entered the Liturgy of the Hour. I have yet to purchase the books yet I really want to. This application is in English language yet can be converted into Latin language. Can you share what you are currently using?
I outgrew the Christian Prayer very quickly and moved onto the 4 volume after about a year of being Catholic, but there are 2 things that are unfair being presented here. The first is that Christian Prayer in the proper of seasons skips the days of the week during Ordinary Time and just displays Sundays. If you look in the 4 volume, the only thing presented on weekdays during O.T. is the Office of the Readings. Only Sundays have propers for MP and EP so there is nothing missing for those hours. 2 people praying a Monday together, 1 from the 4 volume and the other from the 1 volume would pray exactly the same for MP and EP. The second is that obviously Office of Readings is truncated and repetitious. If it wasn't you'd have a book the size of the 4 volume, which is kind of the point. The single volume isn't meant for people who pray the Office of Readings regularly, which most lay people don't. I personally only made the jump because I wanted to pray the Office of Readings. Ironically now that I'm wanting to go even deeper 10 years later and wanting the full 2 year cycle of Scriptural and Patristic readings as originally envisoned, I'm finding myself not using the 1 year cycle in my breviary but only using the psalter and then going digital for the readings and thus am actually considering going back to the 1 volume since it would actually work better until a full edition as called for by Vatican II is published. Just my 3 cents.
Thank you for your videos, especially this one. I just ordered the 4 volume set after seriously deliberating over those vs. Christian Prayer, and after watching this video, I'm VERY glad I went with the 4 volume set. It should arrive tomorrow, so I'm really excited to take what I learned from your various videos, and get started. Again, thank you very much, and God bless you!
Thank you. I use Christian Prayer as a Lutheran (ELCA) because the Liturgy of the Hours is self-contained, easy to follow, and creates discipline. I agree that the four volume set is more comprehensive, but Christian Prayer works well for me since I pray mostly just Invitatory, morning, evening, and night prayer. Peace be with you.
That's the beauty of the Liturgy... there's are different sizes to meet different needs! I personally know several people that find Shorter Christian Prayer the best fit for them. People are praying and that's all that matters!!
You are great! you help more people than you know. Thanks 🙏 I would not know what to do with out these. May God reward you in heaven and on earth. I am praying for you. Thanks for all the hard work this has taken you.
Thank you for the kind words! And please do keep me in your prayers... I am in the middle of the application process for the diocese diaconate program and could really use them!!
You may want to get a used set of books or the single volume set for now, as the Second Edition of the LOTH is supposedly due around 2022!! tomsdigest.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/revised-liturgy-of-the-hours-what-do-we-know/ A new edition won't invalidate the current, but if you're spending the money and can wait....
Thanks! you answered my question about daytime prayer. Today I was comparing them both and didn't know why the psalms would be different! I also didn't even know there were different prayers through ordinary time like there are during Lent, Easter, etc. Very helpful!
The Ordinariate office, based on the Anglican Morning and Evening Prayer services, is my favourite Catholic office, but then I belong to the Ordinariate. :)
Thank you for the very helpful videos. I'm starting with the Christian Prayer Book while I save for the full set. If I remain consistent with this prayer practice I will be able to buy the 4 book set. I've watched several of your videos and they are so helpful. Thank you very much!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I bought Christian Prayer solely for the cost and found it to be totally confusing. I truly want to incorporate The Liturgy of the Hours in my prayer life and thought it would be impossible, at the very least not enjoyable until I found this video. I am so grateful to you for listening to God and putting out this comparison for the laity. I will be purchasing the 4 volume set. God bless you!
Thank you for your kind words! Stick with it! Once you get into the routine, you'll find yourself slipping into it like a comfy pair of slippers :-) God Bless and welcome to a VERY rewarding prayer discipline!
Gracie McGinn , sane here. Found the 4 volume in a used book sale. After watching this I will give this a second chance. Thanks so much again , it clarifies everything
Thank you very much, brother Christopher for a well explained details for this video. It help me a lot to understand the benefits of those four volumes. One of the challenges that I am always encountering with the single volume Christian Prayer book is , "It is time consuming to set up before I could start to pray. And sometimes it become distraction to focus my mind and my heart to pray". God bless you brother, it is very helpful and informative for many souls who are trying to be closer and to be in union with God through prayer. Keep up the good work! I am planning now to buy the volume for this easter season.
Thanks for the kind feedback! I think it's a good thing that there are at least three different print formats and several apps to choose from. It can be hard to pick the option that works best for any individual, so I tried to present the differences the best I could so you could make your own decision. I did have some nasty feedback from someone who wished ill on my children because I "belittled" millions of people that choose the single volume option, but I prayed for him and accepted the fact that it is impossible to please everyone. God bless and good luck!
Thank you brother Christopher for everything, let us always used every situation in our life to sanctify our souls out of love for God in every present moment of our life. Let us always plant grace instead of sin. Let us always strive that the heavenly eyes of God the Father always see the clear image of Jesus in every interior and external being of our soul. And together with the holy man, Simeon during the presentation at the temple of Jesus by the blessed virgin Mary let us say "Lord let your servant go in peace for I have seen Jesus in my soul, Your work of salvation..." God bless you always brother Christopher and your entire family!
Thanks for the video! Have been praying the Christian Prayer book for awhile, but have been wanting more, especially in the Office of the Readings, and this was a very helpful explanation as to what I am getting into lol. Just ordered my set. God bless.
I'm happy to hear you're giving the full office a go! Coming from the CP, you should have no problem at all and I think you'll actually find it easier to navigate once the ribbons are placed!
please do not discourage people from doing what they can. the 4 volume is a hefty price. when people bite off more than they can chew, they oftentimes give up. do what you can and commit to it. it is not the number of prayers you say, but the amount of heart you put into them that counts. Jesus has told us that. PRAY WITH YOUR HEART. i have the 4 volume, the Christian Prayer and Shorter Christian Prayer ( inherited, gifted, purchased)...love them all, use them all at different times. the Shorter fits easily in purse. For those starting, start with the Shorter, is my advice. the 4 Vol. can be confusing, intimidating, and lead to people quitting. If you have the undivided time, commitment and $$$, then go for the 4 vol. Do what you can! Then there is the online...i do not have a smart phone (and do not want one) but it seems a lot of people like that. i cannot hazzard an opinion on it since i do not use it. i love my books!
I bought the 3rd Volume and figured out by using the Divine Office app while reading the book, it makes me feel involved with other people, plus i like things to match and know that i’m on the right path... What i’m doing is building my collection (my 4th Volume arrives in September) Thank you for this!
Don't forget you can get the Saint Joseph's Guide for $2.50 to help you stay on track. I even see it on Amazon.. www.amazon.com/Saint-Joseph-Guide-Liturgy-Hours/dp/1947070304
Christopher McNicholas i know and i do have it, but the downside is there was no Page numbers on Psalmody... With The Divine Office app, it can be read to me and i can join in, it gives me a list of page numbers Eg: Ribbon Placement: Liturgy of the Hours Vol. III: Ordinary: 654 Psalter: Thursday, Week I: 768 Proper of Saints: 1569 Common of Doctors: 1763 Common of Pastors: 1734 I like to double check to see if i’m on the right path ^^
Thank you so much. I’d say for those of us who are serious in being one of God’s saints, we should joyously lead a throughout-the-day-prayer life so to keep constantly in touch with the Holy Trinity. This kind of contemplation should not just be for monastics only. I am so glad we are now encouraged.
I'm in my first year as a Lay Carmelite. We are obligated to pray morning and evening prayer with the option of night prayer. I just started with the Christian prayer book and I like it but I know as soon as I save up enough money I'll definitely purchase the four-volume set
Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference between the 4 volume set and the single Christian Prayer which I have. Frankly I couldn’t work out how the Christian Prayer was laid out, it was downright confusing....your explanation put some light into my despair.
Great review of both books. I noticed you were using a St Joseph's Guide to the Liturgy of the Hours, which is a must. St Joseph also makes a Guide to the Christian Prayer book which is a must-have if you want to understand the Prayer book. Thanks again for the review.
I bought the book of Christian Prayer because I only have the time to do morning and evening prayer. I haven't done it yet because it is confusing. Next time I go to the Catholic bookstore, I'm getting the four book set.
I have the shorter Christian Prayer; Christian Prayer; and the 4 volume set. Also if you have an app with the Divine Office , it will show you what page to refer to in both Christian prayer and the 4 volume set. I tend to switch back and forth depending on how life is going. The Four volume set is superior. The Office of readings is beautiful. Nice video
Thank you, this is a great help. Like most people I plan to be using the app a lot but the group I am seeking to join expects us to pray from a book in community, and I'm trying to decide what book to buy. Have seen the Christian Prayer book and it's awfully disjointed.
Wow, I am glad that I got the 4 book set last year instead of the 1 book version. I got the 4 book set as a birthday present because I want to pray the liturgy of the hours at home in between vocation visits
@@12369ja They didn't reject you... God kept you from places that wouldn't utilize your talents well. Don't give up.. sometimes we are put on a journey of rejection and failures so that when we do finally reach the plan God had intended for us, we can have a background of "junk" to compare with and thus never second guess that we have ended up EXACTLY where we should be. Some day soon you will be able to look back and say "I'm glad I didn't end up at one of those other places... because THIS is where I belong"....
Great video, I say buy the 4 volume, if for some reason, you can always just use the psalter in any of them if you only want to do morning and evening prayer 🙏. This way you always have the option to expand your prayer life.
Great video! The only note I would make is that the Office is not considered a “devotion.” It is a part of the Church’s liturgical life. Otherwise, beautifully done.
I think if you want a shorter simple office, then go with one of the Little Offices, such as the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Or if you wish to bring all of the hours into two or three, then go with the St. Dunstan Psalter or Ordinariate Office. But if you prefer the full thing, go with either the four volume set or the three volume Latin-English traditional Breviary.
I agree with the assessment of the single volume. I am bummed that they don't do the four week psalter. I think they should have eliminated the Hymns section 280 pages (or truncated it) to make room for the 4 week daytime prayer of the psalter. It's tough to get moving through and having a prayer-filled experience when you're jumping all over the place. I appreciated your video! God bless!
I can understand why they would want to shorten it up; both for cost and to simply for the laity so that neither one becomes an obstacle to participating in the Liturgy... but to me it's like adding more and more water to a cup of coffee... the rich flavor turns into a something thin and extremely mild. Although I must admit that some days can be just as bad with the 4 volume set when it comes to page turning! Today (January 4, 2020) was particularly bad... it's the obligatory memorial for St Elizabeth Ann Seton and she appears in Appendix V, NOT the Proper of Saints... I was flipping between back of book, common of religious, psalter, proper of seasons, back of the book, back to common, another few pages back in the common, BACK to the proper of seasons, then BACK to the appendix to conclude... But you know what? It kept me engaged and focused! God Bless and welcome to a richer prayer life!
I’d be interested to see how this differs from the Collins THREE volume breviary VS the one volume called Daily Prayer. These versions of The Divine Office (Liturgy of the Hours) are UK based and approved for use in Australia, England, Wales, Ireland, New Zealand and Scotland. Also where are the Christian Prayer and FOUR volume books approved for. Is it US and Canada?
I think the main difference is our UK version are heavier due to only having 3 volumes. I knew an American living here who preferred the UK version mainly the choice of hymns I believe. You never know when the new translation finally comes out it may be a universal English speaking version which might be nice. I hope something gets done with the intercession prayers.
I only skimmed it once and briefly at that... my quick impression was that it was a devotional publication with some nice commentaries and prayer selections, but not the official prayer of the Church. The LOTH/Christian Prayer *are* the official prayer of the Church, so yes.. it would be a step up!
I'm just becoming familiarized a little more with LOTH and have recently come across the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. I am wondering if you know if there are any similarities between the two or if they are entirely different?
I'm sorry, I do not have an official copy of that book. I downloaded one and it's over 800 pages, so I'm guessing that might be it. I only skimmed the PDF on my phone, bit what I saw isn't a 1 to 1 match with LOTH.. there are a lot more parts for communal prayer or with a priest/deacon for one... I do see the morning and evening canticles though... readings seem to be up to you to find in your bible and they use a collect in a seven day rotation. They also seem to use the psalter in novel approach... it's broken up into a 30 day sequential cycle of morning and evening prayer. Day 1 starts with Psalm 1 and Day 30 ends with Psalm 150.
Hi Christopher, thankyou for helping us understand better before getting into serious prayer. I have two questions 1) Have you comapre the Monastic Diurnal with 4 book LOTH? 2) In my childhood i have been to a French Monastery, there they used to sing the LOTH completely all the different hours and they had one book with the hymns notation. Ever since i have been seraching but not abale to find it. If any infor do let me know thanks again
Thank you for the comment! I have not had the opportunity to compare with the diurnal. Amazon has one for $88 USD, which is a bit beyond my means now. I also see they have a Kindle version, but I don't have one of those either!
I actually started with the four-volume set and changed to the Christian Prayer. What I found due to my workload and travel, it was easier to use the CP. With that said, my preferences is the complete LoTH.
Wonderful video! Very informative! Have you ever tried, or looked at the Baronius Press Breviary? It's a 3-volume set, Latin and English. It was the LOTH Pre-Vat II, but Pope Benedict made an edict allowing it's use. It's complex, and I'd love to see a tutorial on it.
I can't afford the 4 volume set, and your criticisms of Christian Prayer are spot on. I think the Benedictine Daily Prayer, A Short Breviary, 2nd Edition is a better buy than the Christian Prayer.
No. Once you buy them, that's it. BUT... every once in awhile they revise it and you would need to buy the updated books when available. I believe the last time they updated it was like 1992. They are in the process of revising it again, but it's a long process and they've been at it for a couple of years now. I think I read that completion in 2024 is the *best* case scenario for the updated version to start appearing.
Is the office of the dead asked to be prayed during the Octave of Christmas or do i need to wait until after the Octsve of Christmas? I have had 2 friends pass away in the past 2 days, I've was a coworker and one was my softball coach. Also Mary i am that you pray for me, i currently have covid.
A more learned colleague in formation with me says: "Two things... if not obligated to pray the office due to vows for example, you can pray whatever office you want. Office of the dead would be permitted on Tuesday as funeral masses are permitted so the office the dead is as well."
Something you may want to mention is you can buy a complimentary book that has the full daytime psalter, and it's only about ten dollars. Thing that bugs me about Christian Prayer the most is it not repeating the antiphon at the end of the psalm. Page flipping gets extreme. If I were you I'd keep Christian Prayer as a travel breviary. That way if you lose it you'll still have the four volumes at home.
The Christian Prayer version of the Daughters of St. Paul (St. Paul's Edition) follows a more logical approach for the 4 week Psalter with less flipping. However the prints are small. Note that the Christian Prayer highlights the Morning and Evening Prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours as these two hours are the most important to be prayed as it serves as "hinges of the entire office." Ordained and Religious are obligated to pray these two hours as close to the appropriate time as possible.
Yeah page flipping is a pain. I thought you only had to repeat the aniphon on between the invitatory verses though. The Ordinary in all 4 volumes, as far as I've seen, only mention repeating it for the invitatory. For the rest, once at the start and once at the end.
I bought the "Christian Prayer" on volume book and it a pain to handle. It is so frustrating and confusing. I love the liturgy of the hours, but I do not like the one book version. Looking forward to buy the 4 volumes
That's great! Due to my opinion on completeness and after presenting the facts, someone on here called me arrogant and told me I was "alienating" millions of users of the single volume. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the abridged single volume, I just prefer the most complete version I could find and it seems like you do too! Good luck and God bless!
If a Solemnity falls on a Monday, is Evening prayer 2 still said on Sunday night or would we say Evening prayer 1? (I know that tomorrow isn’t a solemnity I am asking so that I know which one to do for when it does happen)
Great question! As a matter of fact, the latest video collection I posted 2 days ago covers solemnities, feasts and memorials. I may not have been clear, but here goes: On a solemnity, you finish the ENTIRE solemnity, including Evening Prayer II, even if there is another solemnity coming up the next day. Remember, solemnities are the most important celebrations and there is a rigid full-day template to follow. I try to think of it logically; dropping in an Evening Prayer I and then resuming with "After Evening Prayer II" breaks my ordered routine, so I know it can't be right! Hope that helps!
Liturgists call this Occurrence and Concurrence. Familiarize yourself with the "Order of Precedence" from the General Norms for the Liturgical Year. This is usually found at the preliminary pages of official liturgical books such as the Liturgy of the Hours and the Roman Missal. These table will help you determine if a Solemnity or Feast occurring on the same day outranks the other. Then you pray the one with a higher rank. For example: Solemnities of the Blessed Virgin Mary outranks Sundays in Ordinary Time, therefore LH and Mass of the Solemnity of the BVM is celebrated instead of Sunday OT. That is so, the Solemnity of the Assumption (Rank 3rd) if falling on a Sunday is celebrated instead of the Sunday OT (Rank 6th). To answer your question if a Solemnity or Feast with a proper EP1 will occur the following day (Monday) the EP1 prevails if it outranks the EP2 of the current day (Sunday). Hopefully this helps. To make it easier for you if your diocese of conference of bishops issues an ORDO or Liturgical Calendar for the year - get a copy - it saves time figuring it out.
PS. Do not confuse Evening and Night Prayer. These are Different. Night Prayer is said before going to bed. Night prayer is prepared for 1 week only (Sunday to Saturday) and repeated again weekly unlike the 4 week psalter. NP After EP1 is prayed Saturday night before bed. NP After EP2 is prayed on Sunday Night before bed.
PS.2. For Night Prayer. Even if you have prayed NP After EP1 Saturday night, then comes another EP1 Sunday night because of a Solemnity or Feast of higher rank NP After EP1 is again prayed. For example during the Easter Octave (Easter Sunday until 2nd Sunday of Easter) NP After EP1 or 2 may be prayed alternately every night before bed.
If you pray morning/evening prayers with others using Christian Prayer will you be able to pray along the same with the 4 volume set? Or would you need a copy of both? Thank you for the walk through, God bless.
You will be able to follow along! The only thing is there is no set hymn; there are preprinted hymns in the 4 volume for morning/evening, but the Christian Prayer is "dealer's choice" from the hymn section. My diaconate class doesn't do any opening hymn, so your group might be doing the same...
Christopher McNicholas you are correct, They are currently not singing a hymn. Very happy to hear this! I really like that there is a 4 week cycle for daytime prayers in the four volume set, and the office of readings is much larger. Thanks so much for responding. Happy Lord’s Day.
The multicolor are the vinyl covered. The black are a little more money and in leather. You can buy the whole set at once, or individual volumes. As for where, Amazon, eBay, your local Catholic book store, or you can shop directly at the publisher's site: catholicbookpublishing.com/product/106
@@cmcnicholas Thank you! I did locate and bit the bullet and purchased the four book set, in leather. Thank you for creating the vids! They are most helpful! Looking forward to future videos!
The best thing to do is LOTH Evening Prayer, Compline, and the Monastic Matins book. And ditch the LOTH Office of Readings. Now THATS an evening of prayer.
I did a little digging... the 4 volume set I use does not cover the UK. There *are* some variations between it and the one approved for the Catholic Church of England and Wales. If you are a stickler for rules, you would be best served purchasing the UK version which is published by Collins UK and called simply "The Divine Office", Volumes 1, 2 and 3. I can see the leather bound Volume 1 is on AmazonUK selling for 36.38GBP. I only Googled briefly, but I think the differences are minimal (although one person reported disappointment in options for hymns). I think the general flow/procedure is the same though, so I don't think you'd have a problem working it through! Good luck and God bless!
I had wanted to get the Christian Prayer book but this is making me think otherwise...I don’t wanna spend that extra money but I do love when its easier to read, follow. Might be worth it but again I only plan on doing morning and evening.
It truly is a personal choice. For just morning and evening prayer it would suffice. There's a little more page flipping involved and and I've heard it is a little more cumbersome dealing with memorials and feasts, etc. but memorials are optional and I know people that just stick with the prayers of the day.
I’ve prayed the Liturgy of the Hours off and on for many years. I wish it wasn’t so tepid in its translation. Hopefully the new translation will be more inspiring. In the meantime, I’ve found consolation in praying the Baronius Press 1962 Roman Breviary. The prayers are so much more edifying and hard-hitting. Try praying Compline in the Extraordinary Form and see how it compares.
I don’t think this is a fair treatment of the two sets. They both serve a purpose! Often times laity can’t participate in all of the hours as priests and religious so the one volume provides them with the hours that they can pray in one book making the prayers of the church more accessible.
What is Breviarium Romanum? It seems very important. Is that the breviary in Latin language which used by the Benedictine Monks in chanting the Liturgy of the Hours? I always love Latin Prayers and Gregorian Chants. And if I am not mistaken Latin language is the official language of the church (please correct me if I'm wrong).
@@walterarchivido6912 The Roman Breviary was the one used before the updated Vatican II office. It was put out of use until Benedict allowed for religious orders to use the 1960s version again. Don't worry about anything being in Latin, most priests pray the newer version.
I realize you say you are just describing the differences between the two but the way you talk about Christian Prayer makes it sound like you think it’s watered down garbage. “They just wadded all this up and tossed it out.” As though they thought it was trash. They thought no such thing. Christian Prayer is a shortened and truncated version of the LOTH by design, for faithful people who want to incorporate prayer into their life but don’t have two hours lying around in which to do so. It’s not inferior. Just different.
I hope you don’t take this is as a criticism, but I recommend that you spend a little less time praying and replace it with fasting and physical exercise. Rampant gluttony in the Church is really discrediting our testimony to the world.
I use the shorter Christian prayer book. I'm not sure it has much less than Christian prayer. I use it for Night Prayer. I've also used it for morning prayer. But i don't have much more time. It's not my only devotional practice and my job is pretty busy.
