I like Lauren.....Not only does she possess an awesome vocal range...but she is obviously highly articulate and intelligent also... Not many people can have multiple good qualities and still be humble like she is. It's very admirable.
+Ivanna Beej can YOU please CHILL out, i'm just saying she wants to be treated like an equal human being and then there are idiots posting things like "she needs a good didcckcing!!!!1" which is exactly what she's talking about, it needs to stop.
***** Ignoring posts isn't something you can do forever, especially when you're in a band gaining popularity on social media platforms, it's better to call for change and be proactive so that the comments will stop, than just do nothing and hope it all blows over -when it won't.
When did I ever use the word easier? It's better to live in a world where women aren't constantly shunned for anything they do as opposed to just pretending it doesn't happen. Calling for equality certainly wont be easy, but if means we can finally have equality between men and women then it's worth it.
+Jordan Fallas Men and women have equality in the west. Sure 99% of the prison occupants are male but there will always be these coincidences. By calling modern society sexist you are telling feminists to focus in the wrong places. Look at all of these Islamic countries if you want to see a misogynist patriarchy
why would anybody give her a hard time? I guess some people are just scared of talented, intelligent, beautiful women. can't wait for the new album to come out. keep up the good work guys.
@@Jac70 think the context is that when the band first started they got a lot of sexist and morally challenged remarks from people who were a bit "keen" about Lauren to put it lightly. The band then went on their Facebook page and said don't do that it's disgusting. However, there are 2 problems with this. 1). Never tell the internet not to do something because it's like telling a child not to stick beans up their nose. 2). Trying to reason with the internet is like trying to reason with the lion that's thinking of eating you So instead they got even more of the abuse but instead the comments were the exact opposite of the "keen" I described earlier and also took it out on the music as well.
I find it so ironic that these comments only hurt the counterargument. Regardless of what lauren does, her point is still valid; don't be an asshole on the internet. And no, the troll excuse doesn't count.
+Ivanna Beej No? Not when it's justified, this isn't the " takes one to know one" theory. Guy's just saying you don't need to be a tool to anyone on here, that's it. Why are you defending trolls is the better question..
+Ivanna Beej As far as people not getting all worked up over every little thing they read, I agree. People need to stop being super sensitive, and realise that people will talk shit behind computers where they're safe. But if you think putting jokes, and threats where you're trying to seriously intimidate someone in the same box, and arguing that they're the same thing, look up context and intent and learn something. Plus, most people by this point realise that if you're the type of person who takes time to talk shit to people through a computer, you're probably a bitch in real life.
Just a tip for all the people "criticising" Lauren, don't act like all women are pretending to be victims of misogyny (however blatant) whilst whining that you and all men are victims. It makes you look a tad pathetic.
+Callum Quinn You do realize that there are like... alot of people connected to the internet... right. You know like if one person says something to this dumbass another saying the same thing may not even know them. It's almost like they aren't an actual group and trying to understand them as a monolithic entity is stupid because you lump MRAs in with Trolls or just people who disagree but idk. Maybe I'm crazy. ¯_ツ_¯
***** or "should be allowed to be a cunt and label all women as pussies and receive no criticism for doing so". Sorry, diddums, that's not how things work.
***** You jest, but do realise that anonymous trolls like yourself can't take an ounce of criticism, right? Its all that petty tribalism suckle on like the pathetic bottom-feeders you are. Anything that is mildly supportive of dreaded female is the enemy and anything that doesn't abide by the male victim complex is an attack on all men. If I proclaimed that "all men are pussies" I would expect a backlash, why don't you expect as much when you do it to female?
It is very true that misogynistic men when they don't like a woman's view will comment on her looks, even though her looks will have nothing to do with the argument as Lauren pointed out it doesn't matter what she's wearing it could be a t-shirt and short, not revealing at all and she will still get same comments. This comes from the view that women are there just to be looked at, so for those trolls hew appearance is the only thing they can comment on because if they would have tries to argue and disprove her actual view that they dislike they wouldn't be able to, that's why they use as Lauren put it their trump cut to shut someone up, trying to scare women with physical and sexual violence. I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty certain that every woman who expresses her views freely at some point has had this happen to her. Thank you very much Lauren for speaking out.
+advancedfirefly What negative comments? Most of us are just giving flipping criticism, something that everything needs in order to improve. Yes, she addressed criticism in the video. But who in this comment section is verbally attacking her?
+Jon Foster It's not "a culture of internet nerds harassing women which is well documented", it's a culture of people disliking something, and using the best tools at their disposal to make sure they understand that. As far as I see, the negative comments are saying "lol what a dumb bitch", they're criticising her, and more specifically, her argument, not dismissing it on the grounds that she's a woman. If anything, you're the one attacking people based on how you perceive them, and not their argument.
Jon Foster I think it's rather telling that you group everyone offending Lauren into Gamergate/Men's Rights. it was a thread on /mu/ on 4chan, and there was no "I want to cum on her face". It just so happens that trolls are often, you guessed it, completely unprovoked, they see someone who is easily offended and they jump on it because they're assholes, not because she's a woman, but because she's easily offended POSSIBLY because she's a woman. Should anyone have to deal with threats on the internet? No, but the fact is that she can walk away from those threats, she can walk away from a thread on a relatively secluded part of the internet that has trolls in, she can walk away from being called a slut on twitter, or move to the more abundant praise and adulation that I'm sure she gets. Also, stop throwing around buzzwords like meme culture, Lauren isn't so massive that calling her a slut is a meme / part of meme culture. Finally, I find it really rather amusing that you rate Banksy next to Elon Musk (really, one anarchist artist who thinks he's deep and meaningful in making pictures that oppose the government, next to billionaire philanthropist), and that, despite holding Banksy at such a high level, you don't take his message to heart, in that you believe that the nasty words that she's receiving is from GamerGate, of all places! Why the fuck would GamerGate, a movement for journalistic integrity and more recently, freedom of expression in video games, care about Lauren? Here's a hint: They don't.
An online & offline paradigm shift is required, but that is going to take a long time sadly; but keeping silent and putting up with it won't do a whole lot. I think it's fantastic she is speaking out about this. It's hugely important.
tnt ntn was she really tho? I think she's complaining about people objectifying her, which is dumb because her appearance is what made the band famous in the first place
Luis Gutiérrez Because 4Chan is a place where anything can happen. People are anonymously posting material. While much of it can be sifted through there are some dangerous topics that can be thrown in the mix. Murderers have used this site.
It’s a shame that some people get heated about stuff. This young woman is terrific and her music makes me feel happy and smile. You’re great Lauren with your band, don’t let the numpty comments and idiot numpty trolls into your life, I know you won’t anyway. I’m a 64 yr old bloke and my son put me onto your band and music, I love it. The world is a weird old place but you’re a winner. Enjoy your life and keep making your music for us please 😎😄👍
+Saint Joy yeah don't mean to be patronising but if you're trolled IGNORE THEM!!! You just know they wouldn't have the BALLS to say ANYTHING to your face.
+TheGava4 Indeed. That's the one undeniable universal truth about internet trolls. They are without doubt, all the weak, socially awkward, likely sexually inept dweebs you see in many towns in any country. They have no chance of saying what they do here in real life, but feel confident enough to be utterly offensive and verbally brave toward people they *know* they'll never have to face in real life. Such a (literally) pathetic existence.
She's got such a good heart on her, when she first became famous she got a bunch of free stuff and gave it all away as part of her charity raffle. Who the fuck does stuff like that these days? Love her.
Lauren you are amazingly talented as well as your band. Please continue to be an inspirational figure in combating accepted social and cultural misogy.
Really don't like Chvrches' music, but reasonable words. She's in that exact place where is able to experience so many different cases related to this topic, and luckily she expresses & tries to fix it really well. Keep fighting the good fight.
+Ser Firestarter Of course! I bet that everyone behind the angry and insulting comments against this video are the "I'm not a misogynist, BUT..." kind of people.
cletus9791 Do they love their mothers or wives, their little sisters or girlfriends? Do they have female friends? Then they're not misogynists. And they don't dislike Lauren purely on the basis that she's a woman. E.G. Not misogynists.
Ser Firestarter I'm not saying that misogynists have to be monsters (even if some of them are). Of course they love some women: those that are close to their stereotype of what a "good" wife, mother or girlfriend has to be. They don't dislike Lauren just because she's a woman: they dislike her because she's a STRONG woman that fights those stereotypes. That makes them feel threatened, so they react with anger and hate.
cletus9791 What you call strong, others might see as arrogant or hyperbolic, personally I think she's exaggerating just how much hate she gets, or how serious it is. That's why I dislike her, because when she says that she's getting hate because she's a woman, it continues the narrative that women are perpetual victims and make them seem weaker, when women are just as strong as men in my experience. They don't hate her on virtue of her woman. From what I've seen they dislike her on virtue of her devaluing women's strength.
What makes any of this misogynistic? Sounds to me like general so-called "cyber-bulling". It's pretty easy to just block/report/ignore these people most of the time.
Indeed. I've heard about 4chan though I've not been on there myself. It's best to just avoid it. It was her decision to go on there. Simply avoid it and the problem is solved.
+Matthew Mitchell wouldn't exactly call it "cyberbullying," but yes, it's incredibly easy to ignore something you disagree with on the internet online abuse doesn't really exist - it's just a bunch of whiny babies getting offended at everyone they disagree with, even when they're saying it only ironically
I think you're being overly sensitive. People say much much worse shit on the internet, and trolling is usually not people's actual opinions, but the attempt to get under someone's skin for the excitement of a reaction. You're wasting your time; not advancing a political movement or changing society, or whatever you think the result of complaining about internet trolls does.
Lauren you are a highly intelligent Goddess,take no notice of these Shitheads,Twitter and Facebook do not matter,just forget Trolls,they are so so so over fed............but yes you and your band are ultra cool!
I think that misogynistic comments are simply the easiest weapon that many people turn to against women, but hate speech/trolling is not exclusively a sexist issue. When it's directed at males, their sexuality or appearance are usually the go to taunts of choice. Whatever hurts is what is called upon, as warfare has always been waged. The sad thing is that the internet provides a foruim which appears insulated from consequences, but not from the emotions that go with these interactions. Personally, I welcome reasonable limits upon freedom of expression on the internet, and I would start with anything that issues threats direct or otherwise.
+Mat Broomfield I agree with the first half of your comment, that people generally pick the insult that will hurt the most, and that doesn't mean that they're insulting you because of that factor. However, placing a restriction on harmful language on the internet is a stupid idea. How can we tell when something is meant jovially or offensively? What if someone is engaging with "banter" with their friends, but later on one of those friends decides to take that to the police as evidence of harassment. It's also extremely difficult to punish people for sending the nasty words on the twitter in real life. Finally, how can we be sure that those rules won't be used as a bludgeon for dissenting opinions? How can we be sure that someone won't be banned from the internet for using a term that some people might deem a "micro-aggression". And is speech on the internet truly free? Every forum that you use will have rules, and those rules will include a clause about harassment, people can't do what they want.
What I see is a person trying to express that something is hurtful to her. This will excite and ignite the persecutors and trolls who don't care, but it also calls attention to those who do care.
1) This is not about Lauren not being able to handle those comments! She can deal with them fine, she's speaking out because it's truly very messed up that this kind of hate speech exists almost exclusively toward women. 2) SJWs suck, but feminism is a legitimate and important cause! Feminist ≠ SJW
+teya4c 1) That is complete bullshit, plain and sample. First off, it's not hate speech, it's just some people having some shit and giggles on an anonymous image forum. It really isn't a good idea to take what people say online so seriously, especially on a place like 4chan, where they will make fun of anyone for anything. Second of all, she clearly cannot handle these comments, which is furthered by the fact that instead of ignoring the comments like a normal human being, she tries to make mountains out of a molehill by ignorantly claiming that this is a legitimate issue. 2) Claiming that SJWs aren't feminists is really just a bad example of the "No true Scotsman" falacy.
If someone thinks something is bad enough to highlight, then their opinion is just as valid as yours. As a society, we seem to be needing more laws to control us. We are becoming savage. In 2016.
Trolling is trolling. If you have to add a prefix to the word then it is NOT trolling! The purpose of a troll is to mind-fuck you into a speechless stupor. Just because someone is annoying you DOES NOT MEAN they are a troll! Trolling is not a synonym for annoying. A troll is someone who deliberately crafts the appearance of being an honest buffoon in order to get you to play their little mental shenanigans to the point where you throw your hands in the air in frustration while they smirk (Troll Face) at you on the other end. Trolling means to play intellectual pranks on people and *NOT* to just stupidly harass them or annoy them with stupid shit!
pearlemma A real troll is not obvious nor easy to spot. They are indistinguishable from those who are honest only because there are honest people who are truly that stupid.
+xm377Moyocoyatzin yeah, I think I can notice trolls easily because I'm so used to dealing with them, but most people honestly think people are that outrageous. I believe 'trolls' simply want a reaction and do it for fun, trolls in my experience just want to wind people up. Hateful people and trolls are completely different
I really don't want to get into a debate about this but would like to address that she said 'there is a difference between criticism and hatred' - she sees the distinction but there are some who treat any criticism as harassment; she's perfectly entitled to say she doesn't enjoy it.
In the words of famous poet and lyricist Tyler, the Creator: "Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Cyber Bullying Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Screen Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha"
Criticism is disliking something and wanting it to conform to your expectations. Hatred is violently and / or vocally disliking something just to destroy it.
Good for you Lauren, be yourself as you’re sublimely talented and looks like some people are just jealous of you ? Dunno what was said or written by whatever a Troll is but it looks like it was offensive and hurt or annoyed you. Just ignore it and concentrate on being you with your band as you make lots of people smile as we enjoy your music and your talent.
All that was said was right on except for one thing, IMHO, that "trolls want to silence people." I think trolls want people to speak and that any reaction is a good reaction to them. Sometimes it's best to ignore them, but if one reacts, hopefully it can be in a way that will get the troll to think. Easier said than done, I know.
cyber bullying is a real problem because once your reputation has been destroyed online it hurts your real life image too, making you more likely to get bullied for real
Lauren Mayberry is a very powerful woman, she could make a difference. I sense her spirit is powerful and many primitive men need to evolve, she is a guiding star
Also she talks about ignoring trolls not making a difference. Which is funny considering she's never ignored a troll ever, maybe she should give it a try.
The simple fact is that almost all of the trolls have sad and insignificant lives are are lashing out in resentment at those whose lives shine brighter than their own. It's just sad to look at someone young, talented, successful, beautiful and articulate and just look for ways to try to drag them down. On the receiving end yes, you may need to aim to be as robust as possible to trolling for your own sake, but as a society we need to send the message that getting upset by trolling isn't the problem, the trolling itself is the problem, and that engaging in it is simply not acceptable.
What abuse are we talking about? I've been on the comment section on this music video and all over their social media pages... I dont see any mysoginistic comments anywhere... Am I missing something?
There is definitely a difference between criticism and hatred. Criticizing someone who is a supposedly pro-feminism of wearing an objectifying outfit is not hatred, it's a valid point. Then we come to ask "What is objectifying about it?" It shows a good deal of her skin, it emphasizes her feminine figure. Personally I think the dress is fine, but *I could see many feminists complain about it* if a woman was wearing the same dress in a different situation. Then we come to the last point - what is the difference between "objectifying" and "empowering" when it comes to what a woman wears? It's simple - *as long as it was not meant to arouse a man*. And that right there is where I have a problem - a woman can go fully nude in a music video and know full well she'd be getting hits due to men wanting to see her naked (Wrecking Ball is an example) and then claim it was "female empowerment" (which she did). What do the feminists _want_ out of us?
First off, I've only heard very little about this woman and I have never even listened to the band before. What I have observed is, that she is concentrating a whole lot of energy on subjects that have nothing to do with her work and the band. Maybe she should put this energy into her own work, instead of reflecting it to those who she does not wish to have around in the first place. Ofcourse, this is marketing. But do you really want to sell yourself as another victim? We have enough of those already, and they are about to get real victims instead of emulating a self imposed fantasy of being one. I can respect woman for who they are and what they do. They are just as valuable as men. But if you're going to play the victim card like this you're first of all hurting yourself and you're hurting everybody around you. Maybe you don't even realize this, but your behavior, "Ms Mayberry", is just as unnecessary and ridiculous as the behavior of those who "cyber bully" you. Get over it and finaly start to be yourself ffs. We all have to at one point, or we'll go down with our own incapability. This is what natural selection is. I'm off for some Death Grips. Fuck your cheap Marketing strategy, and have a nice day.
There's no excuse if you wouldn't say it directly to someone in person then don't be a coward and say it online, control yourself and have a little empathy
I'm generally in favour of radical freedom of speech. But at the point where that speech crosses into threats of violence, it seems totally reasonable to have "lawmakers sifting through comments". Also, they should be fairly easy to detect automatically with advances in natural language processing algorithms.
on a side note this is quite good publicity for her band, id never heard of the band before this incident but on a plus side of all this useless hate and shit i found some cool music
Trolls are trolls because they will never have what you have and they will never amount to what you've become and they will never achieve what you've achieved. They will never grow as people and they will never get better because they can't see past their own egos because they believe themselves to be better when in all actuality it's the other way around. Trolls get off on trying to get a reaction from people because it makes them feel better about themselves because they will never better people than they think they are which are terrible people.
“Snowflakes” taking themselves too seriously. Thank god “as a women” I grew up in better times. I feel so sorry for young people today -they’re too self absorbed now
+Victor Machado we are an oppressed minority. I can't even game in peace without some FEMINAZI coming in and FORCING me to play as a FEMALE character!!!!!!! This is practically rape!!!!!!
+Goldie Dawn SJWs are real and batter me emotionally when I dare speak out about the oppression I'm facing kind of like what you're doing now you HYPORCITE
