Class A Single Ended Triode VS Class D solid state. 

The switching amp's PWM can be derived from a PCM source with a comparator configured to do so. So a class D amp does not neccessarily require an analogue input as it's outputs are not functioning as linear gain devices. It can function as a 'DAC Amp' where the digital input is converted directly to an analogue signal only at the amps output and through the speakers. This is the closest to a 'digital amp'. (Other class amps have an inbuilt DAC to make the analogue conversion to feed in to the linear gain topology for amplification.)

how can people forget Hypex and iPurifi Class D... it has outclassed all the power amps and doesnt have old class D issues

it is digital man

@@lanmichaelmix2818 No, it is not digital in any way, shape, or form.

Hello ! Welcome D52 ! Please, by all means join the party ! Now im going to start asking for your opinion.. ;-)

There she is !! Welcome Carine ! Nice to meet you !! Please, stay involved with the group here, I soooo wish there were more Women involved with HiFi. When I hear from one of you , im always so interested to find out why or what brought you to HiFi , and so many times I just want to hear a womans perspective. Its usually so much smarter than my own..lol Thank you for speaking up Carine! Blessings to you ... I would love to hear your opinion on more of these vids if you wouldnt mind !! All the best !

@@OCDHIFiGuy Oh, I have been following you for quite a while now. I shall share more later and shed some light on how women see/hear hi-fi and how I started this hobby. Keep uploading these!

@@sweetmamma31 Right on, thanks for your presence ! I may do a podcast series, perhaps I can have you as a guest if you would be so inclined.

@@JingoLoBa57 the AGD amps ? They are more than nice.. its hard to tell on computer speakers.. try headphones.

@@OCDHIFiGuy Well, I might during winter time maybe because right now, bad timing. Too many things keeping my mind occupied and from my music... Duh! My parents both died within five months of each other, so now must get the house in better shape, and pay a lot of bills. But anyway, my journey started when I was a little kid - read brat. Our TV had tubes and our radio as well. It was very nice to look at our radio glowing in the dark and the sound I remember so very well; it was warm and rich. As a kid I thought there was actually an orchestra living in that huge wooden ‘crate’. Of course, I soon realised that wasn’t the case. I just loved listening to music. My parents both loved music, so naturally the bug bit me too. My dad played the clarinet and saxophone. My mum loved to sing. And then everything changed. The transistor was introduced and my parents bought a new radio. It was so small compared to our old radio and the sound wasn’t quite the same either but hey, you could put batteries in it and take it with you into the bathroom and even outside. What a luxury. We then got ourselves a turntable and a four-track reel-to-reel tape deck. My mum recorded a lot of records on those reels and we still have those - fragile as they might be. I even have the old units but they don't work anymore and nobody locally seems to have the knowledge to repair them. After a few years, we bought our first stereo system. Transistorised of course. A new world opened up to me, but I had this weird feeling that the sound could be bettered. When CD was introduced, I decided to buy a CD-player and find out what the hype was all about. There I saw a Luxman integrated amp with two valves peeking through a glass on the front panel. I asked the dealer if I could demo this amp and there is was: that sound that sounded so familiar, the sound of my childhood. I bought it on the spot and from there it only got better and better. Over the years I owned a lot of amps, but I always go back to vacuum tube amplifiers. One thing I don’t regret is that when CD was introduced I refused to sell our vinyl record collection. I put the records all in boxes and stored them in a safe place. In those days everyone was so very excited about CD they just threw out the vinyl records. I somehow felt that the sound of a CD was missing something, and I don’t mean the pops and cracks. It lacked soundstage and something I couldn’t quite define. I changed CD players frequently, but my ears didn’t seem to adapt to the ‘cold’ sound of CDs. When I picked up a UK hi-fi magazine, I read a great review of a CD-transport and matching d/a converter. The gear was expensive, but it received such a lot of praise. I wanted to know more so I sent an e-mail to the company. A few days later, I found a huge envelope with a bunch of information in the mail. And then it started… I bought an Audio Synthesis CD-transport and matching DAX-2 d/a converter straight from the factory. Actually, the CD-transport was a modified Sony CD-transport, a top-loader and you had to clamp the CDs. By then I knew the gap between analogue and digital had been closed - or should I say minimised. The musical performance finally sounded right to my ears again. But then Audio Synthesis released a CD-transport of their own: the Transcend Decade. I just had to upgrade to the Decade and it was pure magic. A top-loader again, something special and heavy and with a suspension system! They still form the heart of the digital section. I sold my Thorens TD520 with SME309 arm and DV XX2 cartridge, but it stopped there. Empty bank account... Still, two years ago I bought the Emerald Physics loudspeakers. Another revelation! I use the Arte Forma Audio Zaya integrated tube amp at the moment. Now the hobby has stopped. Too many bills to pay and no job. Argh... So I follow these cute videos for the moment and dream...

Found the audiofool

Sharing one torodial, dual mono, or mono? Any recommendations would be quite nice :)

@@thunderpooch Dual mono is good, but dual monoblocks is even better.

I agree... !

There you go !

Yes, because you can hear that through RU-vid compression ;-) I watch for the gear, not the confirmation bias :P

@@akkudakkupl I heard the other two under the same conditions and liked the 300B

It is possible to design a Push Pull Class AB1 amplifier that is totally accurate to the source when using a resistive loaded speaker, and incredibly close to perfection and natural when the speaker is designed for the amp. Unbelievably natural sounding. The only problem is, it is difficult to design and most, even engineers are incapable of designing such.

@@sammys7518 It has been said the best amplifier is a bit of wire with gain. The customer also wants the best but is not willing or unable to pay for it. So they buy something that looks impressive. That was from a book on vintage radio.

@@chuckmaddison2924 As you say, looks triumph over sonic quality. Remotes as well. Depends upon the wire. Copper sounds different than silver, both sound different than silver coated copper. 6N copper sounds different still. Unfortunately I know of only one amplifier that was perfect to load, SAS Audio Labs 25PPT monoblocks. Also flagship pre. However, the design engineer and owner retired and co. is no longer. Design might be available though, who knows. 20 years ago each monoblock went for ~$2500 each. Pre was $3000+. Almost totally poly caps, even in power supplies. I heard one and in a completely different league from what I have heard over 50 years.

Thanks Dr D !

Glad you enjoyed it!

True on all accounts. And I have never found a horn that sounded accurate/natural. And I have never found an SET that measures accurate, nor that sounds natural. Two sows ears do not make a graceful deer.

Well they are regular old 70s Klipsch.. I got them at a garage sale . But I get what you mean.. the newest ones have fixed many of the issues we did not like from the early ones

You bet man, thanks for your feedback. I need to go over my Western Electric 91A clone amp as it really showcases the 300B

@@OCDHIFiGuy Looking forward to it!

There is no Winner per se unless we qualify what it is we are after, so there must be a qualifier in order to decide. As I mentioned to Ed G above, if the qualifier is accurracy and utter clarity, The AGD takes the cake. If its for smooth creamy pace , with thick body and a seductive glow, then nothing matches the SET, and between them you can also qualify a parameter as some SET tubes have more of the seductive part liek the 300B, and some have detail and imaging as a strong suit like the 45 triode .... so you can see how this can keep one involved for a decent time period ...lol Its all about discovery for me.. like seeking treasure..

Yeah man, I should’ve put winner in quotes cuz I loved the 300B’s and the AGD, which is the thing that warps my mind. I used to have a stigma against Class D amps probably cuz of how they work. I’ve also never heard one done as right as the AGD. Ive also always been a tube guy. I’ve been running a PP amp with KT88’s for years.

@@NickP333 Yes, KT 88 is a fave of mine as well.. Shortly I'll have a pair of Verastarr tube amps back here and each chassis is 8 x KT88 for 300WPC of Pentode slam. I had the same stigma about class D until Rowland and AGD

@OCD Hi-Fi Guy Ooo, those sound SWEEEET! I’ll make sure n’ wear my big boy pantaloons for those. Loves me some KT88’s! Hey, do you have an email I can reach you at? One of my best buds owns a tube amp only repair shop called Cranky’s up here in MA. He recently worked on a 1 of a kind pair of monoblocks which took over 5 yrs to design and build and also contained (16) sixteen KT88’s per side. I’d love to send you some pics of em to check out. They’re absolutely enormous, and the custom transformers built for em is a sight to behold. I can’t remember much more about em, but as I said, would love to send ya some pics. You can always reach me at: hiwattnick@gmail

Will email you ..

for me it's the other way around. I agree the tone of the 845 and 300b is more pleasant and natural but tubes to me always seem to lack dynamic and the sense of rythm that solid state has. ultimately, the lack of dynamics (for me) doesn't keeps me from enjoying the music as much as with solid state equipment.

Could be the speakers though. Would be interesting so compare with a variety of other types of speakers. Horns are not that accurate due to compression distortion and require a softer, non accurate type of amplifier.

That sounds to me like a bias against class D. Only because it's the same thing people repeat. I absolutely hated class D until one year ago that I went Into Jeff Rowlands room at Axpona. With Joseph Audio. Immediately it was the best room I had heard. I assumed class A monos. No sir it was a class D integrated. Then came AGD who has a patented MOSFET the only GaN device that has been designed for music. All the others are designed for Radar. So no, the AGD is not brittle or cold or anything people say about class D. Wait to read the reviews. People are dumbfounded when they hear these. You have never heard music playback like this. It's a totally new experience. I recognized it immediately as something I'd never heard. So cast the Class D stones elsewhere but until you have heard them in person simply think about it. For real. I totally thought class D was complete crap a year ago. This is a different level. But tubes do have a flow and liquidity since they are slower. It gives a nice pace and rythym.

I like the sound of the 300B tube better, brass is more palpable, but there is spotlighting of the mid-band. I personally am not a fan of the Canary amp. Furthermore, I do not feel those Klipsch speakers are doing the Canary any justice, they are asking them to do more than they can. It's not a pairing I'd be happy with. The synergy isn't there. IMO.

@@mpix8302 the Klipsch are old, but they are very easy for an amp to drive. The Canary are not totally broken in and I can mod them for sonic which I plan to do.

I think the class A sounds noticeably cleaner. Class D sounds muddy in comparison...call me crazy. I would never get a class A though, don't like Hot amps.

@@OCDHIFiGuy Have to admit my outlook on Canary is based on the old CA-301. I can recall a phone conversation with Canary back in 1995, the guy was a hoot, if our conversation were wiki-leaked today, we'd both be tar and feathered and put on a list! Shame I wasn't into the product. I never saw or heard the M80 mono's, but now that you got my attention please revisit when broken in/mods. Would like to see what's under the hood, am curious about the power supply, also is it point to point wiring? As to the Forte's which I have a little experience with, something about the crossover, I always seem to hear a high zingy sound with tubes driving the Forte's, and many other "easy-load" and much more expensive multi-way's. I'd prefer to hear the Canary driving something simpler such as a Zu Druid or the like. Btw, if only they could've bought that Class D amp in at a price point equivalent to what Nelson Pass did with the Aleph 3, that would be sick. I'm seriously turned off by the circuitry encased in a 6550'ish bottle, just looks like bling, and although I'm not into sand, that amp ain't 1/2 bad!

I agree. The set amp is perfect. The sound, tonal balance, harmonics, separation... Everything is just perfect and enjoyable. The class d is good.

Because Class A is always conducting on the outputs it is ready for any little nuance of signal high or low. Never has to "start" to conduct from the signal.

Steve, dont sell yourself short ! Adding tubes in your system will be very rewarding for you. It does not need to cost a lot either.. Do it man !! we got your back.. you'll have a whole group of people to share your experiences with , and learn as much as you like.. It will be one of the best things you've done for yourself.

The Class D amps that I carry, have strong second order harmonics ...

@@OCDHIFiGuy AGD is your favorite? How does it compare to Bruno Putzeys Purifi module las used in Nad M33?

@@OCDHIFiGuy I just finished listening to my system with the Cayin 300b integrated. John Mayer's voice sound spot on. I can see AGD being more dynamic and faster but wonder if it has the midrange beauty!

Thats not a realistic way to listen for most people , but somethings gonna bug me after 2 days no sleep, I promise you .. lol. I do however get your point.. I have listened to Vivace for hours on end without listening fatigue, and if Wavac can do it , so will others.. Theres a new type of Class D out and Vivace represents it

@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks and I'll check it out - given that it uses gallium nitride semiconductor tech, I think it was the same ones used in the F 14 Tomcat's radar upgrade during the 1990s before they were retired in 2006.

i can hear that class D is bad,it still sounds so lacking the depth and the treble seems overwhelming in this particular test.

Z,s

The unattainable is attainable with Push Pull AB1. With near perfect accuracy, one has to work with the speaker cables to obtain the lowest inductance as well as proper total DC resistance. I am using six foot long, 10 and 9 parallel 18 gauge wires for optimum musical naturalness. The quality of flutes, pipes etc are incredibly live. Using 10/10 or 9/9 speaker wires is not natural/accurate.

Thanks Man !

@@OCDHIFiGuy I have the forte II. I love them. I also love my Marants 2285b. However...I want to try the fabled tube synergy with the klipsch but...BUT. I love to be able to hear bas guitar and adjust it if need be. Any tube amps to suggest in the $1200 range? Something that lets the bass flow or can be adjusted in that price that will blow away my marantz?

@@anthonynicholson5523 what do mean "lets the bass flow" ? Do you mean "not a weak piece of crap" ? And can be adjusted how ? Cut or boosted ? the tube type is what will give you bass slam. Your best bet is older Jolida 502B or 802 better. More desireable ST100 by Rogue audio Cronus Magnum as well.. If youre super lucky like I was 10 years ago, VTL MB300 Monobblocks will throttle the piss out of whatever speaker you have and should be around 2500 and way better choice than a 1200 stereo tube amp.

Very true

GM70 is my fave

Well how far from ATL are u? Can you really hear imaging through YT ?

Perhaps I should say I can get indications of what the soundstage might be like through YT. Like how eating crumbs off a dirty floor hints at what the real thing tastes like. I'd love to stop by if I'm ever in the area. Your power cables, speaker cables and now newly arrived IC have done more for my system than I ever expected.

@@flashhog01 Thats really cool if you can.. I did not think it was possible.. Great news !

@@flashhog01 Any time my man.. and youre really not a cable guy , right ? This was your first real eye opener ? Bravo for making the step

@@OCDHIFiGuy I went in with an open mind expecting that if I did hear something it would be small. I was in for a heck of a surprise because I had no idea the textures, tone, air, imaging, etc. I was missing out on or that my equipment was even capable of reproducing them. I am now of the mind that proper cabling and AC power management is the foundation of a serious system. After all, does it matter how much horsepower an engine is capable of if it can't take in enough air or efficiently expel its exhaust or sufficiently cool itself to make that power?

That has changed. The new class D by AGD is amazing for vocal and instrumental. Better than class A... ;-)

@@OCDHIFiGuy Says the promoter of the AGD amp... lol

Not AGD...Not stressed at all. I love the 845's as well... for sure..

Building is fun though, I love it.. What tubes will you use and arranged how ? would love to hear what youre up to..

@@OCDHIFiGuy Sure is! It's a single ended EL34, 1 per channel putting out 11wpc, driven by an 12AT7. The design is the P134B by Jack Elliano of Electra-Print and uses his specially made transformers(unique to this circuit). He calls it an Iso-Linear amplifier and it uses a unique method to lower IMD. Makes for lower distortion than most any SE amp without using negative feedback. I was asking about getting transformers for a 300B build, but he directed toward this design when I wanted full range sound with great dynamics. I'm really glad I went this route! Sounds clean and powerful! Also, just picked up Tekton Perfect SET speakers to play with for my SE amps :) Keep up the great vids!

@@CollectingRetro Cool, Man ! I met Jack not too long ago and he told me about those designs. Seems like he knows his stuff. I also asked about transformers. I've not played around with transformers in terms of comparing how different pieces affect the sonic and have been interested. I'll have my first pair of high grade loose transformers after i swap them out of a customer's linestage. I'll need to find out what type they actually are.

@@OCDHIFiGuy Nice! I hope to meet him some day. He told me that he learned from ex Western Electric engineers. I've read comparisons and the transformer can make a big difference.

Hear it keep up with ? Lol. So Ive got a new SIT 3 here. What class D shall we compare to ?

@@OCDHIFiGuy Can you explain how it is possible that a switching amp can be as fast and fluid as a Pass type design , class A , minimum devices in the signal path ?

It's all about taste in the end.

@@artsabound7627 explain it ? Lol. No freaking way. Not a chance. I barely understand it. It is all about taste is absolutely correct. But your post sounded biased against Class D.

It is extremely clean and distortion free. Good ears !

@@OCDHIFiGuy very nice! is there anything comparable in class D but more affordable ?

@@souhailla10 actually Ive got 2 pair of monos one of the Vivace and one of the Audion I can make a great deal on Normally they are $15K and $7500 I can go $11K and $5K on these 2 pair only, sold as new with full warranty

@@OCDHIFiGuy well as it sounds very interesting, i'm looking for real affordable class D amps for some costomers. its not for myself to be honest. i was just wondering what kits there were on the market and asume perhaps you also have experience with those.

@@souhailla10 Red Dragon Audio, Talk to Ryan, tell him Mike Powell referred you and you are a dealer. cheers !

Im pretty sure Vinnies stuff is solid, and sounds great. Now he has joined the upper crust price level, what remains to be seen is if his product holds its value over time , like Rowland for instance. I personally have no interest to listen to it here, so I doubt I will. I am not a reviewer per se. Reviewers are writers for hire. They get paid from the companies they review. This means its possible they take a job reviewing something they dont like yet give it a favorable review because their kids need to eat. Hi Fi reviews are complete and utter bullshit. Generally speaking that is. So I review things that I have bought with my own money, if I think they are crappy, then I can say it. If I dont like it or am not interested in it, then I dont talk about it. That being said, Vinnies product in my opinion looks and sounds to be legit, and so does he whenever I ve spoken with him. in other words he totally passes the hiFi bullshit meter. Hes the real deal.

@@OCDHIFiGuy Thank you very much! Appreciated.

Ill agree... ;-)

I can not agree with you . The best thing Class D does is highs, senond, bass, the mid is where it suffers to me. I just bought a quad of ACME 845 for these amps and will test them soon.

Listened a few more times and the 300B amp seems to do something to the piano sound I don't like. The 845 seems a bit more laid back and natural in the midrange. I still think the class D adds a hardness or edge to the highs.

Listening with upper mid quality Grado headphones on a Jotunheim DAC.

I perceive a more clinical presentation from the D amp. It comes across as more strident in the high end, because of much more odd order harmonic content. The cymbals just sound more natural to me with the PSE845. Dominant even order harmonic spectra. Dynamics are there for both amps. I am listening with a homebrew 6688/76 Mu Stage tube headphone amp driving good old AKG K240 600ohm headphones.

with class d sounds like cheap system

Yes, very true about us liking distortion. thats the "tubey " thing.

You nailed it exactly Tim, now keep in mind you are hearing a very special class D from AGD. It is Patented tech. So far my customers have all been all devout S.E.T. fans. Its a really fun amp to listen with.. and Yes, the tunes are so sexy sounding..by the way, killer setup. I loved my lite7 !

I find that good imaging is speaker placement and DAC or Preamp quality. My class Ds image great. I see the only potential drawback as being "too clean".

15/30 ips

Now you're picking up what I'm laying down !!

Just like anything you tube them accordingly.. Thanks for the reply

Recommendations??

Yes, Bruno Putzeys is the god of Class D.

2 completely different things with different optimal speaker choices.

I am using Chario Aviator Aria with Rockna wavedream signature and WD Net server Would Nat audio single be better than my Jeff Rowland 625s2 ? Please help

I agree. I love tubes and tube rolling but listening to the AGD is more involving. I connect more with the music

Indeed it is! But its too hot and heavy and inefficient.

no pun intended, right ? lol. Clear is a great word..

@@OCDHIFiGuy Yes! exactly. Much more detailed. Now I need a pair!

@@jacobbecker5122 Done deal bro, give me a call ...

Thanks for sharing. I agree. There is one thing that sounds better than tube in my experience. Patented Gallium Nitride Class D from AGD Production here in Los Angeles, I am the USA Sales rep because I loved it so much. It beats Western Electric original 300B. Call me if you want to try them no risk.

Yeah hard to say over a computer. headphones or even earbuds and a smartphone work well..

You know it Brother !

You know it Brother !

Well, we certainly could try.. If you were here, the AGD lets you hear very much into the music, its very noticeable, since there is no distortion to speak of you hear right to the bottom of each sound , what I mean by that is pretend the music were a 2 foot square piece of short grass say taken out of a front yard, the grass is maybe 3 inches tall with soil at the bottom instead of hearing 1.5 inches into the grass with everything below sort of mixed together to make the base of the music, AGD clears that all so you hear all the way 3 inches to the base of the grass blades and each of them stay discreet with no mixing or smear down in there.. I dont know how else to describe it.. What happens is i forget Im listening to music as im captivated by the story it tells. 399B is like a massage, I close my eyes and just feel it I may not listen to the lyrics and just get the full feeling of what its putting out.. very relaxing and soothing.. So even though I put a VS in the title it does not mean there is a winner or loser, just a comparison... Cheers !

Too Long ago, dont remember.

an a really nice speaker system too.

Yes, you are hearing efficiency, Class A is the most inefficient thing you've ever seen or heard. I was using about the same power for each of them, though ultimately as I started to turn things up , first the 300B would drown in distortion and shit itself, next the 845's would start to distort and glow red and probably start something on fire as they wont go down easy, they'll take a hostage. AGD would keep on increasing in loudness with grain free, distortion free, distinct musical bliss past the level of live without even getting warm, if /when they got to their limit, you would hear the music stop in that channel, simply cut out. If you turned the volume down it would come back on. You can NOT blow this amp up, and it will never blow your speaker. It is the cutting edge of amp design. the Vivace are 2 times the watts of the 50W 845 at 8 Ohms.

It has nothing to do with power or efficiency of the power amplifiers, but the voltage gain that surely is quite different in the several amplifiers used there. You can have a higher power amp with lower gain. Higher gain means you need to turn the volume less at the preamp; not better, not worse

300B is the most popular SET there is, and theres a reason. It sounds fuller because its body is at level 10, its highs and distortion profile are at a 6, so when compared to something that has everything at a level 10, comparatively it has more body by ratio. There is a nice soft warm feeling and a creamy pace that the tubes have that AGD does not. AGD is about utter accuracy and truth , The SET is about seduction and hypnosis, so to say AGD kicked its ass can only be true for one style of listening as AGD did clearly not kick its ass in soft, thick, seductive flow.... the purpose of the video is to show people what Class D is all about, as many just shun it with no knowledge about why. By no means does this make anything the "best". It simply showcases why people like class D

OCD HI-Fi Guy I would run the class D to the woofer and the tubes to the horn. Which is what I’m doing myself

@@edg5367 Make sure the amps are gain matched or you'll be at it for weeks trying to get balance... Get the overall gain spec.. but you knew that already.. ;-)

OCD HI-Fi Guy LOL

OCD HI-Fi Guy the AGD’s topend was way hotter then the 80’s even the 845’s were a little hot

Yeah they each have something the other does not. AGD kicked ass in clarity and articulation, but tubes capture things with slower liquidy romance

Too expensive..

new amps are coming out in a black box... keep your eyes open

D is never as good as class A or AB.That is why it's called D.Just like the D score.Anyway,if the source is an bad digital file,it's no mater how good the amplifier is.Class D sounds like an mp3 file to me,class A still better.

You are correct. I own and sell the most powerful single tube S.E.T. monoblock amps. The 160W class A S.E.T. NAT Audio Magma New, zero feedback power amplifier. One driver tube one single GM100 output tube. The videos are here.

@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks for reply! Yes, I have seen those fire breathing monsters. Would you say that they preserve the delicate , "alive" magic of more common SET solutions like 300B, or does some refinement get lost as expense for power?