Great vid! A couple of quick corrections: 1. The Thaumaturge does in fact gain Legendary Will saves at 13th Level. 2. Nature and Religion’s key ability scores are tied to Wisdom, not Intelligence. Hope you and your family have a great Halloween!
I swear I reread the class like 5 times one night because "there's no way they forgot to give the Thaumaturge a Legendary save!" And somehow my brain just failed to register that 🙃. Good point on Nature & Religion as well.
In terms of swapping between implements which you talked about in the weaknesses section, the level 5 feature that gives Thaumatuges their second implement also allows them to swap implements as a free action before they use that implement's action or reaction. Still, overall, a great video!
Fair point! I think my brain just saw "Unlimited Esoterica" at 19th level and assumed that was the only "fix" to that issue. Thaumaturge has a lot of moving parts & a lot of classes get an action cost reduction at 19, so I think my brain over-generalized. Thanks for the correction!
Great video. I love the thaumaturge class and more people talking about the class only helps come up with build ideas. My implement combo right now has been weapon and tome. Being able to save fortune effect from the tome for an AoO that can interrupt can turn the tides in a boss fight very quickly. One note though, they do get legendary will saves at level13 and access to medium armor does help offset the need for dex to boost AC. I do agree that they have a harder time surviving in combat. Chances are that con is only the third or even fourth highest stat keeping health and fortitude relatively low for a marshal. Manipulate on so many of the actions doesn't help either.
I swear I reread the class 5 different times because I kept thinking, "how on earth do they not have a legendary save?" And now I discover my brain just betrayed me that evening. LOL! Thanks for the correction!
Thank you for this. I've always wanted a character akin to Van Helsing, the Belmonts from Castlevania, and any other kind of hunter that uses lore, mystical items, etc. A fighter wasn't specific/attuned to the role enough. It sounds like the Thaumaturge is for me! I'm trying to make a similar character for "Wrath of the Righteous" computer game, but it's based on PF1e, so it doesn't have Thaumaturge. Maybe if you get late into the game and get a ton of magic items...it's getting closer, but not quite the same.
I love the flavour of the Thaumaturge - really love it; if I was a class irl, I’d be a Thaumaturge pulling out random nonsense - but honestly I find the complexity off putting. I’d definitely want to play it from level one onwards, rather than starting higher. There’s also an unfortunate lack of balance (as far as I can see) between the implements; some are pretty clearly better than others.
I also love how…cohesive the class is that you can flavor it in so many different ways. Flavor it as Van Helsing and pop culture vampire hunters emphasizing their martial prowess. Or Abe-No-Seimei and omnyoji yokai hunters with ofuda spell talismans. Or Warehouse 13 agents with the implements/talismans. Or even as a robotic cyborg with various accessories with EV being a unique analysis, wand being a futuristic gun, amulet being a shield, mirror as a clone hologram, etc.. Or a Dark Souls cleric that carries tons of religious paraphernalia, texts, or even scripture (tome) that gives you the answers you need right when you need it. Or a druidic warrior that uses rituals and mystical plants/scrolls. So many fun concepts! (Also a reason I’m excited for Kineticist. Having access to being an elemental “martial” means can do some other fun concepts. Like a metal druid or a nature Paladin.)
Wait, what??? *Rereads Class Ability* Well, what do you know? That's it, Paizo! I'm bumping up the Thaumaturge's Complexity Rating even higher! LOL! Thanks for catching that!
The Thaumaturge is such a cool class concept but I feel it works better as a Free Archetype for classes like Rogue. Investigator, Sorcerer and Summoner than as a class in its own right.
Thaumaturge does it better than most classes, but Recall Knowledge is just a poorly written action. I've seen wildly different results from different GMs regarding what information they give out.
Yeah, I think Recall Knowledge is one of those things that definitely needs a house ruling to function properly. My table uses a "PCs can ask specific questions, but then I use DC modifiers based on the question asked" approach. So, for example, my players could ask "what kind of attacks does it use?" Or "does this creature know how to cast spells?". That kind of thing. Then I use standard DCs, modified based on how obscure I think the specific question would be. I feel like it flows pretty well that way.
![Class(ic) Introductions: The Thaumaturge [Pathfinder 2e]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
