Classic HeroQuest Playthrough - Adventure 3: Lair of the Orc Warlord | Let's Play an Old Board Game 

Interesting ideas. I think back in the day I came up with special rules for most of the monsters and heroes. Part of the joy of HeroQuest is making it your own.

Thanks for watching. HeroQuest is always a joy.

Thanks. I try to keep the playthroughs as straightforward (and brisk) as possible - lots of footage hits the floor! It's quite fun to see the dungeon growing over the course of a game.

Thanks, that's very kind of you. I think half the fun of HeroQuest is coming up with new rules. It's so easy to do.

Absolutely. I remember games of HeroQuest from 1989, but don't remember what I did last week most of the time.

Yeah. This was a lot of fun to do.

Thanks for watching. Another rule I have seen people use is, if you fail to kill a target you swap places. I haven’t tried it, but it has potential to throw your heroes into the middle of bad situations.

Lol. Ah that is quite the tactic there.

Interesting idea with the Wizards of Morcar. Who doesn't want to be an orc shaman?

Thanks. My primary focus at the moment is the Space Crusade restoration that I started in Monday’s video, but I will be covering (and painting) my retail copy of Hasbro’s HeroQuest too. I have a lot of projects ahead of me!

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Ohhh don't worry, and thank you so much for all this 😊

Yeah it was a bit of a buzz getting these boys back in the dungeon for some greenskin bashing. Thanks for watching.

Thanks. I'm just glad everybody didn't forget me. For a channel my size taking a week off is like taking a year off! Glad to hear you are enjoying your Mythic pledge. My retail copy is on the way.

The app is great fun - I keep thinking Zargon is the Joker though 😜

The voice artist does sound very much like Mark Hamill's Joker.

Thanks for watching.

It’s a very expensive stick.

It does have its benefits. For one, it means the game never outstays its welcome as you don’t get bogged down in really long fights. It also leans into that idea of the game being a bit of a competition between the heroes. The monsters are more like speed bumps to bicker over and you can more easily go it alone in a rush to get the best loot. The game also becomes more of an optimisation puzzle where you try to wipe the enemies before they can activate. Heroes can still die (the wizard can still die from a single hit), especially in the tougher expansions, buts it’s less of a concern which makes the game a bit more forgiving for younger gamers.

I see your points, and it definitely is good for younger players. It didn't exist when I was young, but I played it with my daughters, and I hope to play it fairly soon with my grandchildren. It just doesn't seem right to me that all enemies have one body point, and that you can go through all the adventures in the main game and never lose a hero, or be close to losing one. For me it is the opposite of things like Warhammer Quest where the whole party can easily die on the first few tiles, if not on the very first tile. I know some people have given up on WHQ because after half a dozen adventures they still haven't survived once (there are ways round this). I also realise it is complete heresy to question anything at all to do with Heroquest, but as you said we all play it slightly differently.

@@phildevey6302 It’s definitely not impossible to lose heroes, especially in the expansions, and unlike in the US version you don’t get a last second chance to use a magic potion or spell to save your life. A careless wizard can always go down with a single hit from tougher enemies and the UK rules do encourage a more vindictive play style. I think the US and UK versions of the rules both have their advantages, and they both give you a different play experience. I’m definitely not blind to weaknesses in HeroQuest - I bring up quite a few in this playthrough! - I just don’t see the body point thing as a weakness. It’s just a difference. I’m looking forward to playing the US rules with my Hasbro copy.

I can't agree with you on this one, I'm afraid. For me having one body point for all monsters is unfair, unbalanced, and just wrong! It is quite easy to fix, of course, just use the American body points, or invent a scale of your own. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this legendary game which has introduced so many people to board games and to the world of fantasy. It is fondly remembered, and quite rightly so. I still have my original copy, and the expansions, even though they haven't been played for over 20 years. It just has one flaw (in my opinion), which needs fixing.

The world would be a boring place if everyone agreed. For me, it's a rule that works well with the game as they made it in the UK. For example, in Lair of the Orc Warlord it isn't so much about killing Ulag as it is about WHO kills Ulag. I wouldn't just want to add hit points for the monsters in the UK game, I think you need to do more than that to make it a good fit; but I have no problem with the monsters having more hit points in the US version. For me, the biggest flaw in the UK version is they excised most of the stuff relating to Mind points. As a result, the wizard's greatest strength and the barbarian's greatest weakness plays no part in the core game, and only has a minimal impact in the first few expansions.

Good luck with the restoration. The mission books are available to download from the Ye Old Inn website, so I would grab them from there for the time being until you can source replacements.

Thanks. I made the dice tray. It's just a box frame from a £1 shop with my channel logo printed out and stuck inside.

Yeah, I really only dropped it in an attempt to keep the runtime of the video down, but I definitely felt the impact in those areas where there were several monsters and positioning was key. Having to deal with low rolls resulting in sub-optimal placement is definitely a part of the game that I feel needs to be there.

Glad to hear you are having fun. Sounds like you have come up with a suitable workaround for some of the issues of having an oversized party. I would be concerned you are making things a lot easier for the team though. For the most part (at least until you get to expansions like The Frozen Horror), HeroQuest is more a game of attrition. You won't face many things that can outright kill you, but it's the accumulation of little hurts that takes you down as you are forced to burn resources like healing potions and spells. With two parties, neither is put under the same degree of pressure as they don't have to marathon the full extent of a dungeon. You may also find some of the later missions that are more linear, or which force you to split the party in different ways, pose some very interesting challenges to work around. How are you running six heroes in the app?

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I first played a six hero party in Rogar's Hall quest. On that quest, I added +1 to defense of every monster on the table, from the first to the last monster. In the middle of the game, I regretted that decision, as it not only made the game harder, but also slower. The Dwarf fell (and since it was an illusion with no real death, I didn't want to waste a Potion of Healing), so the Wizard cast Swift Wind and Pass Through Rock on the Barbarian and he rushed through several rooms (revealing monsters and furniture in process) to join the other group while the Wizard went to the stairs room (he just had a single spell left). So at some point, Rogar's Hall turned into a 4 hero quest. I'm still testing the idea and I've just made 4 quests so far with a 6 hero party. At first, I also considered that it would make the game easier for the reason that you've mentioned (which is why I boosted every monster with +1 defense). But each battle is a fight between 3 heroes vs monsters of the room/corridor. Since you already have 1 hero less than the usual, it will make each batte slightly more challenging, so I have the feeling that overall, it will balance the difficulty. This is the kind of thing that's more about gut feeling than pure math. But as you know, you can buff monster's stats and even tactics (advanced Goblins and advanced Skeletons), so you can increase difficulty without having to add more monsters (that could be done on top of the mentioned buffs, but I'm not sure how well that would work without one of those larger, custom made board from Etsy). I also set a limit of one treasure search for party - not hero - in a room, so the game won't be slowed down by 6 searches for treasure. Most of the time, there's only one search action per room (or 2 if another party is passing through the same room that was visited by the other party, but that only happened in the last quest) _or_ if there's a special treasure in the room; in that case, I think it's OK to have a second search treasure for the first party that have arrived in the room. And finally about the App... Yes, so far, you can only have a party of 4 heroes. So I created a party with the Barbarian, Dwarf, Knight and Rogue. The Wizard and the Elf are outside of the App. The kicker? I'm controlling the monsters as well, so I make their movement and roll their attack and defense, not the App. The App is useful to record monster's Body Point and to reveal the map and whatever is there. This is why I roll both attack and defense (using the dice from The Frozen Horror) in a single pool of dice when someone, hero or monster, makes an attack (White dice = Hero; Blue Dice = Monsters). Perhaps you could try it too someday. Let the App be a semi-Zargon (you still controll the monsters) and try a 6 hero party, splitting them in 2 groups. It might be even better if you have someone else with you, controlling one group while you control the other.

Ah, I forgot to say something: If someday I decide to beef up monster's stats, I may increase everything _but_ their Body Points (and perhaps Mind Points, which will make them more resistant to certain spells). As you mentioned in one of your videos, that will make the game slower and will prevent the Rogue the opportunity to one-shot kill weaker monsters with his Dagger attack. It will also make spells like Fire of Wrath and Ball of Flame less impressive (even a Goblin could survive being hit by Fire of Wrath if he had 2 Body Points). That said, if you boost monster's defense, than these two spells will be more valuable, as they don't care for the monster's defense stat.

Adjusting enemy stats is always tricky. Bump defence too much and the game really can start to grind, which is something HeroQuest should never do. I totally agree about leaving body points as they are to avoid invalidating certain spells and attacks.

I have mentioned it a few times during the restoration process. They are Sleeve King's Yucatan 54x80 sleeves. I used the same ones for Space Crusade too. They won't fit the US versions of the cards though.

My Hasbro version arrives tomorrow, actually, so you can expect some coverage on that shortly.

I think you’ll like it. I lucked out and won a Mythic Tier pledge from EB Games here in Australia and I’ve really enjoyed it.

Yeah there are lots of different variations people have used over the years, varying the numbers based on character race. I still think straight rolling is the best option. Many of the rooms are small, and those occasional double ones can throw a spanner in the works that helps Morcar out. It makes you think a bit more about placement, which is a good thing.

I tried messing with the movement for one game. It totally upset the balance that is built in.

It's mainly for editing reasons - if I throw the dice into shot I don't have to worry about editing around my hand or creating ugly shadows all over the board. Means I can cut out as much dead air as possible to keep the pace up.

He definitely tripped over his beard more than once.

Yes, in the European version they rolled the traps and secret doors search into one. It keeps the game a little more brisk as you only have to worry about two types of searches.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I like that. I may house rule it into my games too.

I think it's a good rule. I'm not really sure why they are separate in the US rules as I don't think you really gain anything by forcing those additional searches. People tend to search whenever they can anyway.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I think it’s another rule to encourage cooperative play in the US edition. The party is ultimately more efficient if they are moving together and using actions toward a common goal.

@@ShrineBuilder I don’t personally see how making the team do an extra search makes them any more cooperative. I think it just slows things down a bit more as your team of heroes are always going to do all the available searches anyway. People will have a preference one way or another but for me I prefer to roll the search together to keep the game moving at a faster clip.

It's a sign of it being a game from the 80s. Race as class was still a thing back then. I have quite a few older games where elf and dwarf are class options alongside things like cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard.

That ruling doesn't even make sense. See through the doors?

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring They wanted to assume the doors were old and wooden with big cracks. I couldn't watch more than 5 minutes.

Yeah, I don't see that being a fun way to play.

Got to bring the drama. Thanks for watching.

I've mentioned elsewhere I think the single hit point system has benefits. It stops the game getting bogged down in long fights, so it never outstays its welcome, and it means you can spend more time competing against the other players for loot and glory. You can actually split the party in the UK edition!

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Having hit points barely makes any fights longer, aside from the bosses, which should be longer and more epic. What it does do is make the positioning, equipment, and hero sats more important by requiring more tactical planning on how to deal with threats.

The UK and US versions are very different. The UK version is purposefully simpler and I think more easygoing, but also definitely leans more into the idea of heroes being out for themselves. I haven't played the US rules yet, but they both seem to have their distinct charms, benefits and drawbacks. The US version is supposed to be closer to what Baker originally wanted, as I understand it. I'm looking forward to playing with those rules now I have my Hasbro copy. I have only just discovered that in the US version you get a chance to save yourself if you reach zero hit points and have a spell or potion - that's just not a thing in the UK version!

Pretty sure I never said that although maybe I wasn’t clear or misspoke. You are allowed to take your action before or after moving. What you aren’t allowed to do is move a bit, perform an action, and then carry on moving.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring thank you. Does this apply to monsters too? Thanks

@@markflores2475 Yes. Each one can move then attack or attack then move, but you can’t split the movement.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring thanks for the explanation.

That's the case with so many games, particular ones like this (I recently received Dungeon Universalis which is pretty much built around that idea of doing what you want with whatever you have), but it's really easy with HeroQuest. It's such a simple system it was designed for customisation, and that's what so many people did. As I mentioned in the video, no two people really play the same game if they've grown up with it, and everybody was creating adventures, heroes, and new monsters. And of course, Advanced HeroQuest even had the rules for porting all of this stuff to that game system. As I've said on the channel many times, I prefer numbered dice to custom dice (most of the time), so there's no trauma for me there. Advanced HeroQuest (and Advanced Space Crusade for that matter) went even further than that, switching to a D12 system for increased granularity. Of course, those games were actually designed by Games Workshop who rarely use custom dice. They didn't design HeroQuest or Space Crusade, which was down to Baker.

​@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring All true, couldn't agree more. As for custom dice. I love them. When I figured out they are just normal six sided dice, it broke my heart a little (that was a very long time ago). My favorite heroquest style dice has to be Parkers (?) licensed version of dungeons and dragons which was an intensely more complex version of hero quest. The board sections where nice but the miniatures where not. Its hard to compete with GW on the minatures front.

I have a copy of Parker's Dungeons and Dragons the Fantasy Adventure Board Game. I unboxed it on the channel years ago and keep meaning to do a bit more coverage of it but never seem to get around to it. I actually quite like the chunky, cartoonish miniatures, although they fit in with absolutely nothing else I own. It's a great game, and I always regret not picking up the expansions when I saw them really cheap in a toy shop.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thats amazing. Its an underrated classic fantasy board game. You should totally give it a video session or two. All I still have are the board sections. Everything else got binned, donated or is just gone. Games Workshop also did another game, that reused parts from advanced hero quest, and I cannot remember the name of it - not the expansion which reused a dungeon floorplan set but it actually used advanced heroquest models, AHQ cardboard floor sections and used the top of the box as some kind of needlessly elaborate hit mechanic. You get mad hobby points or something for having that game.

That game is Mighty Warriors. I have it and have done a video of it on the channel! It’s a really bad game.

Some of the rules seem a little odd, but it all plays smoothly enough. As I mentioned in the video, everybody ends up playing their own version of HeroQuest anyway.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring It plays very very smooth as a practiced DM. give the rules a nerf or a buff as you go,

Hasbro's edition of HeroQuest is based on the classic North American rules set, which is different to the classic European rules set. I don't think there is a definitive answer on why the original releases of the games had different rules in different territories. I think, in the European market they wanted to lean into the family friendly vibe, making it a bit more competitive and simplifying a lot of the dungeon delving rules. This was probably to help it shift units based on other things that were popular at the time. When they subsequently released it in America they produced something more in line with what Baker originally envisioned. I have a video on my channel that goes through all of the major differences between the two rules sets if you're interested in that.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thank you for the reply man I apreciate it and i think i well.

Yes this is the only HeroQuest playthrough on my channel at the moment.

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring "at the moment" - i feel better