Classic Mopar No Crank, No Start - How To Diagnose Issues - Dead Dodge Garage 

Happy to help! Hey, I have a ‘71 Demon too. Haha.

Funny it was running when drop off. I just taped up wiring harness because it was a web mess. Painted valve covers. And now just cranks no fire. Also no ballast just a external condenser on positive side coil. Did not change anything. But I see videos with ballast . I think 1988 is one off year. It has til carb. And 3 prong connector for distributor. Blows my mind. I think they had a bad connection from key to coil. That's my chevy mind. This is my first 318 2bbq mopar engine. Don't the condenser do what the balist does drops voltage?

I've replaced everything an still no crank

I was just saying the same thing. He literally helped me resolve my issue

​​@@chrisdemarco2473Condenser/ capacitor is not a resistor by function. It reduces pitting on your points and helps last longer. Watch more DDG videos before u mess up anything. Cheers!

Outstanding! Happy to help! Glad you found me - and if you have any questions, you can always ask in the comments. Thank you.

Glad to help!

Awesome! Happy to help.

Charging problems and flickering lights, too…

I have one too. Yep, always does it only when my girlfriend is in the passenger seat. Thing is haunted. Note*** you can manually jump the starter

Thankyou. Great video. My 1974 Dodge motorhome with the 440 V8 has that starter relay junction box on the frame in the middle right next to the transmission. I'm gonna try replacing it. Has anyone else replaced it and had the problem of the 'intermitate start' problem go away?

Awesome! Glad I could help. I haven’t seen a lot of neutral safety switches fail really. That’s interesting.

@@DeadDodgeGarage update! Everything works after I simply swapped the entire relay!! Still gunna do the neutral switch just in case- thank you!!

Happy to help!

I’m no electrical engineer by any stretch, I just… have about half a clue and can explain my thinking. Haha. Thank you.

Nice! Happy to help. I once bent the crap out of a header in my Swinger, which then shorted out the starter connections somehow, which fried the relay (and positive cable.) I fixed the cables and replaced the relay, and all was well.

Outstanding! Happy to help.

Let me know if you have any questions and I’ll help as much as I can.

You may have another problem with early trans and late engine - the pilot / hub on the torque converter changed sizes as well. I can never remember the exact change over year, or which size is which. I know there is a spacer available commercially to center the smaller hub in the larger opening. I think you’re out of luck going the other way.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks for replying. My transmission is out of a 68 roadrunner and my research tells me that early 68s had the single wire and later 68 and on has the 3 wire like my 69. If I can’t find one like I want I’ll probably just get a TCI Street fighter. That has the later one. I do appreciate you taking time too reach out.

The white wires are the various outputs to the EL accessories. As this output is AC, you likely wouldn’t get a reading with your meter on DC anyway, or not one that made sense anyway. Good that you’ve verified you do have power going into the transformer - on the orange wire. This is the standard dash lighting color code in classic Mopars. In the Charger, the shifter and radio back light are also electroluminescent. I assume you mean only the back lighting is out in the radio? An EL problem definitely won’t knock the radio itself out, just the lighting. As I’m sure you know, the transformer is a common failure. I have replaced mine twice… and it’s dead again. But obviously you’ve ruled that out already, assuming your new one is good. You could check the white wire for AC voltage, but I think it’s worth assuming there is none, as you have no lights. What you’ve likely got going on is a short somewhere. You are correct - If any of the EL circuits are shorted, it knocks out all of them. The alternating current can no longer alternate - or something like that. I’m a DC guy. Haha. Anyway, the diagnosis for this is as follows - disconnect the AC / lighting circuits one by one until everything else lights up. You could start with the shifter and radio, but I would guess your issue is in the cluster. It’s been years since I went through my cluster, but I believe you can disconnect the gauges one by one from behind with them still in the car. There may also be a disconnect for the entire cluster. The ultimate fix in my experience - if you do find the issue is in the gauges - is to pull the cluster and transformer, put them on the bench, and go through them one by one. You can power the transformer on the bench with a battery or with a bench power supply if you have one available. Remove each gauge, clean any corrosion and nastiness that you may see, and reinstall. This can also brighten the gauges if they don’t work well. I have used conductive liquid circuit stuff for the needles… with mixed results. Very difficult to repair with a solderer. Can do more harm than good.

Ground wire to starter? There shouldn’t be a ground wire going to the starter… unless your main ground wire goes down there? My area of electrical expertise is in the 60s and 70s so I’m having a hard time picturing what that could be without seeing it. I have had shorts in the alternator fry main supply wires in the past. There are definitely many other possibilities. I wonder if you’re looking at a positive wire though. If you need more help you can email me pictures at jamienoise@gmail.com

You bet!

I told my wife: "see I'm not the only one that cleans that way"

You need to share it

@@ramiram84 I have no platform to share it to or I absolutely would

I do think that would work. The trouble is, that doesn’t bypass the firewall connector - which is the bigger of the two problems… if you’re pulling more current than the amp gauge can handle, you’re definitely pulling more current than the firewall connector should handle.

Just tie those two wires together and bypass that fire hazard and put a after market gauge in the car

@@michaeljarnagin7364 Amp gauges fry, sure, but again - your solution doesn't address the firewall connector problem, which is as big of a concern on these cars.

I’m guessing that’s a column mounted slide switch secured with two little screws? It should pop right out. A light prying from a flat head should do the trick. The rod just sits in there - or it’s supposed to - and the switch holds it in place.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks…gave it a bit more pull n’wiggle and she came free.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Now it looks like my power is being hung up in that gauge cluster. They are a unit and not separable with a large 8 cond plug in back of the assly. Everything else off that switch/relay seems to work fine with key “ON” but it won’t send to starter solenoid. I am thinking of running a separate hot wire with push button ignition switch to the ign terminal on the starter to avoid trying to find a used instrument cluster. The normal ignition switch still has to be ON with the key so….seems like it would work for me.. What do you think? BTW - Everything has been replaced, starter, battery, starter solenoid on FW and key ign relay on steering column and this is an old 82 van conversion that I use mostly hunting and fishing.

Interesting. I wouldn’t have included that as a rule, because I have had plenty of cars with a missing body ground that by all rights should have issues like that, and yet don’t. And sometimes the symptom is different. Our van, for example - it had (still has? I don’t think I’ve fixed it) a ground terminal issue where the body ground comes out because it’s a hair short. When that happens, it starts and runs fine - but doesn’t charge. Reconnect the body ground and it charges. I still haven’t figured out how that makes sense.

The list of things to check may be slightly different than the basic muscle car stuff I was addressing here, but the procedures are the same. Get yourself a test light and start stabbing stuff. Fusible link will be a good one to check - and the amp gauge. But also firewall connector. One way or another, your main power feed isn’t reaching the important bits inside the truck.

Well that’ll be fun. I wouldn’t know anything about the electrical system found in that - but I suspect the principles are similar. Have to wonder if it has a Chrysler charging system, or a GM as is so often found on equipment like that. Wonder if there was a short in the alternator and it cooked something important.

That sure sounds like a fusible link. Just like a fuse, they protect against dead short circuits to ground and excessive draw. So you may well be dealing with another issue that will hopefully make itself apparent with a new fusible link installed.

@DeadDodgeGarage Thanks for replying....since posting I've watched a couple more of your videos. Process of elimination is key here. I'm sure I will be well educated on classic mopar ignition systems by the time I get this all sorted out. It wouldn't be so difficult if it was at least in a class c motorhome as the factory cab would be there but unfortunately the class a motorhome do not leave factory with anything except frame, suspension and drive train. All the things that would normally be found on the firewall and wheel wells is not on class A which makes it difficult to find where things are. Thanks again from southern alberta and I look forward to more videos.

If jumping the relay doesn’t work then it must be a break in the small wire leading from relay to starter. Or bad crimp? Or bad connection at one end or the other. That is a direct connection to the small connection and it should do exactly the same thing electrically speaking. I’ve never seen that before, but hey, there’s a first time for everything.

@@DeadDodgeGarage it's new to me too. I was always able to jump the relay or the starter itself. Probably sitting for some time in Louisiana has diminished a few wires and connections.

Could also be bad contacts in the relay, if it pulls in and you don't get power out of the load side but have power on the feed side then most likely the contacts are bad.@@DeadDodgeGarage

@@stephenwest798 He said it wouldn't crank when jumping/bridging the relay, bypassing any potential relay failure in the doing.

Correct, I was just pointing out the fact that if the relay pulls in and you don't get power out of it then the contact are most likely bad, some people think a relay is good just because it pulls in, they can hear it click, we both know better than that but not everyone does.@@DeadDodgeGarage

I usually go for 8 gauge. You bet!

@@DeadDodgeGarage you’re the man! (Any forums you recommend for 1st gen Dodge B series vans? They seem scarce) cheers from Victoria, Vancouver Island Canada!

Wiggle your battery cables! I do mention that in the video - give them a twist and reef them downward. I’m thinking you have corrosion crap in there, that’s usually the one click. It arcs out trying to pull enough juice to turn the starter and then breaks the connection. You could also clean them with a battery terminal brush.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Friend of mine help me out. found a draw from some dash wires which he repaired. Car starts right up but now the amp meter is doing the dancing thing although is always reads charging. Almost settles when accelerating. New battery and alternator. I heard of running a ground from Voltage regulator to negative cable as well as one to the alt housing solves this. Or should I spring for a new VVR.

Jumper wire from battery positive to the input side of the ballast resistor (one or two blue wires - opposite the side that feeds the coil, which should have a brown wire.) Jump starter relay with screwdriver. Easy.

Trucks like that have multiple fusible links. I’m guessing you fried one of them. I don’t have a whole lot of expertise on those later trucks unfortunately. The basic principles are the same but there is a lot more going on. There should be a fusible link pack near to the driver side inner fender. It’ll probably be like four red wires all coming out of one big ball. Look and see if any of those have melted. If so, you can replace it - but you’ll be left with the question of what shorted out and fried it in the first place.

I would be suspicious of the main power cable going down to the starter. If there are sparks, the solenoid is being energized. But I would also expect to hear it clicking/clunking as the gear kicks out. Also, make sure the engine turns by hand.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Got it, thanks for the reply. Engine turns by hand. I'll have to check out / replace the cable, although its in like new condition.

@@DeadDodgeGarage New starter did the trick. While the old starter passed the bench test, it apparently couldn't do it under load. Note there was a click previously and no crank. Thanks.

I don’t know C body all that well, but I’m sure you will have to at least drop the column down a bit. If you have any accessories on battery, like a modern stereo with memory for example, or if you have the door open when you are doing checking, a continuity test between the terminals *should* show something, meaning there is a path to ground. But a resistance test will inform you whether that path is through some accessory (some amount of resistance,) or a dead short (essentially zero resistance.)

Lots of possibilities you’re going to have to work through there. Wires on the big and small terminals on the starter relay making contact can do that. Same with the two wires on the starter itself. Or, the relay stuck closed, or a short in the starter itself. Starter relay being bad after sitting forever is not at all uncommon, but they usually just don’t work - not normal for them to stick on.

Possibly weak spark from the coil? You could start with a coil resistance test. You’ll want to look that up - I can never remember the right specs. I wonder if a failing condenser could also cause this. Not sure there - but they can do weird things.

It has power where? On the trigger wire when cranking or at the big stud? If there is trigger power from the key switch in the cranking / start position, and ground through the neutral safety, the relay will do its thing. So - maybe. When you say jumper wire, do you mean from the neutral safety connection to ground? That would indicate a neutral safety issue - but maybe your shifter is adjusted wrong. Maybe the wire fell off. Lots of possibilities here.

Pretty much all of them, with some modifications.

Yes. There are a few possibilities. The most obvious would be a starter relay that clicks but no longer puts out power. There could also be something else powering on with the key, but then clicking off when you turn the key to crank, as the accessory circuits lose power during cranking. The test I would have you do isn’t mentioned in the video, but the first two parts are - check for ground at starter relay, check for power at trigger wire when key is turned to crank (need an assistant) and then check the output wire in the middle for power with everything connected (and your assistant turning key to crank.) This should point you in the right direction.

If it clicks, your key switch circuit and neutral safety circuit are good, so you can skip all of that. It is either 1) a bad starter, 2) a bad starter relay, or 3) a bad positive battery cable or connection. Personally, I’ve got money on the starter itself. There are a few tests that could be done, but only when it will not start. And knowing the way of the universe, when you take it to a mechanic, it always will… anyway, hope this helps.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Thank you very much . 🙂

74 only has a seatbelt interlock solenoid. Yours could well be bad… But first, put on your seatbelt and try again.

I never use the seatbelt 🤪🤣. I will check that and reply back. Thank you for the quick response. U da best.

How low a voltage are we talking? What actual symptoms do you have? Under normal operating conditions you should see like 7-8v at coil positive. A little lower may even be normal. It should show ~12v with the key on the run position but engine off. The coil will get full battery voltage during cranking but this likely won’t actually show 12v either due to draw from starter. Feel free to reply in a new comment - if you reply to this one I won’t get a notification so I may never see it.

Little white do=hickey on the fire wall, seemed to fix coil problems on Chrysler products back in the day

Absolutely. Splice them together in an effective way. If you add an external charge wire (shunt wire - alternator output to battery positive) then there will be very little load on those wires.

Yes, that’s kind of the whole point really. I discuss that toward the end of my charging systems video. It takes most of the load off of the firewall connector and amp gauge, which should make a big difference.

The electrical systems got more complicated as the 70s wore on, with emissions components and such, but the main circuits are very similar. I would be looking at the ignition system. I can’t remember which year it was introduced, but if it has lean burn, I would be very suspicious of an issue with that.

If the starter cranks, the neutral safety switch is fine. It sounds kind you stumbled across some crazy fluke. I wonder what the heck is causing that though. Moving the shifter changes nothing else, unless it’s wiggling an important wire somewhere…

@@DeadDodgeGarage it’s a very strange situation. The car would fire up almost immediately 95% of the time prior to having that transmission leak repaired. I also had the steering gear box replaced so possibly a loose wire somewhere as you’ve mentioned. I’ll get it to a shop next weekend. Btw, excellent video!

Kinda curious what ‘shot’ could mean in the case of a points ignition. Points, condenser, ballast resistor, coil are all cheap and easily replaced components. Excessive distributor wear (some of which is normal)? Weights stuck? The nice thing about the points system is its simplicity and ease of repair. I’ve done a lot of electronic conversions over the years, and these days I have to wonder why I bothered. Because I read somewhere it added 5 HP… Anyway, the electronic ignition conversion is quite simple. I actually have a Chrysler ignition systems video which shows the differences and similarities between the two setups and how they work. Basically, you’re going to change the distributor, mount the ignition box somewhere near enough to the distributor to connect (firewall, inner fender,) run the coil trigger wire to coil -, and run a power wire for the module from the opposite side of the ballast resistor than the coil + is connected to (the full 12v side.) It’s not too bad a job.

@@DeadDodgeGarage Jamie, you sir are a God. Simple as that. Thank you again!!

I think you’re looking for a wire that isn’t there. Also, no fuse has anything to do with the starting circuit, so there isn’t much point in looking there anyway. What vehicle is this you’re working on? If it’s a classic Chrysler product from at least the mid 60s to the mid 70s, I have given you all of the tests in this video to narrow down which component is keeping it from cranking. Neutral safety switch and starter relay are the most common failures.

How the charge reaches the battery has essentially nothing to do with charge output / voltage. The shunt allows charge to reach the battery directly instead of going through the firewall connector circuits, taking load off of them and helping to keep those circuits from heating up and frying. If you are having overcharging problems, you either have a bad voltage regulator, bad voltage regulator connector, bad voltage regulator ground to the firewall (common on those trucks, with the regulator in the drip line,) or… like all of those at once.

@DeadDodgeGarage thank you for the reply. It's not overcharging, just wasn't sure how it wouldn't overcharge if the alternator was wired directly to the battery. As long as it's safe for the battery I'm going to go ahead and do it. Seems like a great idea

@@jeffreyhaarsager3287 Gotcha. Just conceptually, I hope it makes sense then. There is already a factory connection from the alternator stud to the battery - it just goes through the cab of the truck, sucks, is too small, gets hot, corrodes in places, melts, catches fire, etc. You're simply adding a better connection. I would have to suggest that you also add a heavy fuse in a solid mounted fuse holder to the shunt wire you add - something in the 60-100 amp range will be sufficient with a stock charging system. The last one I installed came from Amazon, and was very affordable.

Huh. This isn’t a ‘74, is it? Just trying to think of any likely possibilities outside of the relay itself, because there really isn’t any good reason for those to fail repeatedly. Unlike the separate Ford solenoids, these relays carry very little load. If this is a one time thing, it could be that you just got a crappy one out of the box - but if this is something that happens repeatedly, there is obviously something more to it.

When you say won’t start, do you mean won’t crank with the starter, or will crank but won’t fire? I took this to mean won’t fire, which would indicate you are losing the IGN 2 feed. I’m not sure on a ‘68 C body, but this is generally a brown wire coming from the key switch to the ignition system - either connecting at the output side of the ballast resistor, or directly to coil positive. The only electrical difference between cranking with the key and jumping the relay is IGN 1 is still powered up when you are jumping the relay, but that power feed goes away when cranking in favor of IGN 2. This wire could be crispy, it could have a poor connection through the firewall, or this could even be a weird ignition switch issue. The IGN 2 wire is back-fed voltage the whole time the car is running - but a lower voltage due to the resistor in the circuit - and I have seen issues with them before.

Weak spark? Like obviously yellow and won’t jump a 1/4” gap? It should generally show 11-12v while off, and 5-8v while running. I would probably start with a resistance test on your coil and go from there. Or just go ahead replace it - but there could be more going on.

The video definitely addresses your problem - one way or another. You need to go through the different points that I described where the main power flows and check the voltage readings. How’s the fusible link look? Can you pull it apart by chance? Sometimes they are toasted but just barely hanging together. An amp gauge failure usually leads to absolutely zero power, but it could potentially do this too. When you were in the firewall connector, how did it look? Any corrosion or loose terminals? I would be leaning toward that or the fusible link because moving that caused a change. Voltage reading at battery, voltage reading at big stud of starter relay, voltage reading at outside of firewall connector, then inside firewall connector, then both sides of the amp gauge… compare these readings, and it should point you right toward the problem - between the last good reading and the bad one.

No negative - positive in, positive out. Yes, that is the correct way to bypass the gauge.

Thank you very much. I will give that a try on the weekend. I have absolutely no power inside the car no headlights no nothing. I have power at the battery. I have power at the fusible link and I have power at the starter relay. I’m gonna follow all your instructions and I’ll report back to you Once I get this solved. Thank you so much for your very informative video.