One thing I'm confused about people being frustrated with Sonic Superstars existing is that, people have been telling Sega that if they wanted to use Classic Sonic, he should be in his own games and not in Modern Sonic games anymore after Forces came out, so that they can focus on allowing both of their gameplay styles to be fleshed out more without having them clash because they're in the same game. Now that Sega and Sonic Team are trying to do that, people are starting to complain about how it should have been a Modern game instead, just because leaks were apparently saying it was going to be. Now, I'm not someone who's against a new official Modern 2-D Sonic game being made, but what do you think will happen if a new 2-D game in the style of the Advance and/or Rush series gets announced? People will likely start moving the goal post and say we're being oversaturated with 2-D games, and start asking, "where's Sonic Adventure 3?", and/or start pressuring Sonic Team on how the follow-up to Sonic Frontiers is doing. And if they don't get an answer right away, they start fear mongering about the state of the whole franchise again. Personally, I don't really care which Sonic is in what game. As long as it's enjoyable to play, that's good enough for me. And Sonic Superstars looks fun to me. It might be more safe, but I think it's understandable why the next Sonic game after Frontiers would be less experimental, regardless of if Frontiers failed or succeeded.
...less experimental? they are using a new model, entirely new zones, new mechanics, 3d, and using a new character. most un-experimental it gets is using classic sonic and making it similiar to his gameplay
@TailsHub7 I meant it as a comparison to something like the Modern Sonic games, especially after the risk that Sonic Team took making Sonic Frontiers. I didn't say that Sonic Superstars isn't trying new things at all. It's simpler by comparison, but that's okay!
Finally, a sensible person in this fanbase! Everyone was crying after Mania about a sequel or spiritual successor that’s 100% original and now that we’re getting exactly what we all asked for at the time, a significant portion of the fanbase rejects it; saying that it should have been a Modern Sonic game instead, even though everyone loves bashing on Sonic colors for being 95% exactly that! Wtf is wrong with these people?! Sonic fans act like a bunch of spoiled brats who toss out the very thing they made a fuss over once they’ve gotten it for literally no reason at all! Ugh, this fanbase is the worst!😠 Imagine how betrayed Sonic Team would feel if they found out listening to the fans only ended up backfiring on them.😔 Especially considering they didn’t have to listen to us in the first place. And now they’re getting hate for catering to us?…Uncool.
@@dusk173 This is why I think that they should just make the games they want to make and not give a flying fuck what the fans think of it. I know they have to please demographics, but sometimes I feel that the Sonic fanbase has too much power over what gets made.
I think the problem is that like. The issue isn't Classic Sonic on his own. It's Classic Sonic showing up in Modern Sonic's games. And while I'll admit, yes, this has only technically happened on two occasions, Generations and Forces, the first of which being justified because Classic Sonic being there was literally the point of the game, we also have Forces. All of this is MAINLY because of Forces. Because Forces was the bottom of the barrel, and it made people MAD after we had finally gotten some stability in (mainline) Sonic games. Sure, it's just the one time, but when it comes to Sonic, we've been burned before. It's only natural that people would immediately get wary for the future. Personally, my take on it is this: If you wanna use Classic Sonic, fine! I like the guy! Just let him have his OWN game. Don't throw him into a Modern Sonic game because it takes away from BOTH of them in the end.
Technically it only ever happened once. Generations was never a Modern Sonic game, it was a full on both Sonic game and intended as that from the start, especially since it was a celebration game for the entire franchise, so leaving Classic out would be essentially saying Modern Sonic IS Sonic when both are him. This means the only game he appeared where he didn't belong was Forces. Plus let's be real here: If you took every iota of Classic Sonic out of Forces entirely, the game would be a steaming pile without Classic's presence. It was just a bad game all around with or without him and even Classic Sonic fans fully agreed it was trash. Blaming that game's disaster on Classic Sonic being in is just wrong. Way I see it, let Modern have his 3D games, let Classic have his own 2D ones, and if you are going to have the two intermingle, make sure its designed from the start with that in mind, not thrown in as a quick nostalgia bait. For example, maybe make a game where the two swap styles entirely and Classic gets to run around 3D environments with his limited moveset while Modern has the 2D view and make it play off of the fact that both are out of their usual norm, designing the entire game around the concept from the top.
6:27 I agree with that, to say he’s used for “nostalgia bait” now, it’s kinda a stretch cause I feel Sega is starting to get more comfortable in letting this character outta the “green-hill effect” and actually letting him explore new territories -overall o guess it comes down to like…will the “Sonic-cycle” be broken so far it’s looking good thanks to them listening to fans, idw, Ian Flynn, and the movies (Amazing upload as always, keep up the good work Flute👍)
I think people have to understand that Classic Sonic is a different character now. Its essentially a different brand, so he's not going anywhere. Its not even a matter of nostalgia because he's an established different character in canon.
umm acksually recent media confirmed that he's still just younger Sonic 🤓 but yeah, if it was just nostalgia, then why does Classic Sonic appeal to more than just 90's kids.
@@andraw4002 The fact that what happens in Forces is actively referenced to in Frontiers confirms that no, Forces was not retconned at all. And not a silly "Hey, remember this?" reference but an actual plot development following Forces' own story beat.
I find it funny how people like Unleash only see Classic Sonic as nostalgia pandering despite the literal existence of Superstars and what that game is trying to do the only reason it feels like oversaturation is the cause of shit like merchandise and fan work which yeah it's true but there's nothing wrong with it, if you exclude that except the mainline games there ain't a whole lot of classic Sonic which makes the argument stupid to begin with.
When I go to play a Sonic game, it almost from the classic series of games (my favorites being Mania and CD). I’m fairly young, I grew up with the Jason Griffith era of modern games and yet enjoy the feel of classic Sonic more. It’s not nostalgia, it’s a different experience altogether, and we should treat it as such.
Isn't it funny how people were begging SEGA to bring Classic Sonic back in 2010 for Sonic 4 but they didn't. Then when they eventually did bring him back, people are whining and saying that they don't want to see him anymore.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for making this video 😭😭😭 Unleash clearly hates Classic Sonic for no reason and im happy that this video essentially destroys everything he says
Bro all the classic stans say "Unleash is hating" just cuz he had a different opinion. From 1994 up until 2011 we were completely fine without Classic Sonic. But then after 2011 SEGA learned the wrong lessons from Gens and thought that the reason it was successful is because of Classic Sonic and nostalgic level themes and not because of the 2 polished gameplay styles. Also your point about Classic Sonic only having few appearances in the 2010's is kinda invalid when you consider the VERY HEAVY classic influence throughout practically every game after Generations anyways even up to Frontiers with cyberspace (although to be fair that was probably more of a budget constraint rather than nostalgia bait). Anyway, that mini essay of a comment is why I think bringing back Classic Sonic merely holds the franchise back and why he should die.
"bUt THeY cOuld hAve maDe a MOdern 2D gAme iNStead." NO, they couldn't. I don't think Sonic fans understand just where Sonic stands with the general public right now. A 2.5d modern Sonic game would turn people off due to Sonic 4. Hell sonic superstars almost did that, so imagine if it was a modern game. A pixelated one would only attract the Sonic fanbase and could only be priced at 30-40 dollars due to bad stereotypes about pixelated games ecpecally if they "look indie". A hand-drawn one would cost too much money and since Sonic is a series that up until Frontiers has failed to break at least 2 million per year per mainline game. LIKE HELL THEY WOULD SPEND THAT MUCH FOR A PRODUCT THAT WOULDN'T MAKE IT'S BUDGET. A 2d classic Sonic game does not have to deal with any of that. It can appeal to EVERYONE with out that baggage the rest would to the brand. Again I DON'T AGREE if it was my way we would have 2d pixelated modern sonic game galore. But I understand it. . Unlike modern Sonic in the eyes of the general public classic Sonic has a better reputation. Sorry not sorry but that's just how it is. Besides if anything this is good for modern sonic. It needs a stable source of income to invest in the next 3d sonic game.
At least there'd be a high chance of innovation for it. Because I don't see the Classics games ever evolving beyond what they already are. Just your generic 2D platformer. Actually, on 2nd thought, they're not generic. They're actually lazy because they still have 3 jump buttons. At that point why not make every single freaking button on the damn controller a jump button? Make it even lazier.
My guess is that Modern Sonic went through all the games minus non-canon ones, while classic Sonic starting with generations branches off into a different timeline that leads to Mania and then Superstars.
I love how this is a reaction to unleashed's video where he said he has overstayed his welcome now you are sayong hes not overstayong his welcome and also unleashed said he needs to die then you said he needs to live
He had a good point, but didn't articulate very well. Cuz if you look at the games we've got since 2010, the pourcentage for classic gameplay is higher than 3D modern gameplay, and that's just a fact that people love to sweep under the rug, it's not just Mania and Superstars (yes, Sonic 4 EP 1,and EP 2 are classic sonic games too, since they're essentially trying to replicate that and was marketed for that)
@@precieux6303 That logic fails because Sonic 4 was only changed to be named and treated as a follow-up late in development. It was intended as a Sonic mobile game, and there's even textures used in-game in the casino levels showing the original name of the game: Sonic the Portable. The marketing was literally a last-second change when they decided to port it to consoles. Secondly that logic is treating 2D Sonic as a whole as Classic Sonic when that is just objectively untrue. None of the Sonic Advance games are Classic Sonic games. Sonic Colors' 2D sections and levels are not Classic Sonic gameplay. Classic Sonic is more than just Sonic in 2D. Its Sonic in a 2D plane with simple, single-button controls that encourage exploration and reward good platforming with speed. Nobody swept anything under the rug; nobody ever once considered it Classic Sonic gameplay, not even Sega themselves when making it.
@@GameAW1No it's not. I never once mentioned Colors despite it coming out around that same year, and that's for a reason. You're just intentionally trying to misinterpreted the obvious I've stated to disredit what I said. Sonic 4 has classic elements (accurate or not) all over it that the other 2D Sonic games you mentioned clearly don't have so no Also you're going off-topic about the development, it doesn't matter what it was initially supposed to be. At the end of the day it was hyped and sold as the next game in the classic game series, so it's certainly not a Modern game Sega only doesn't look at it as a Classic Sonic game cuz it flopped
@@precieux6303 I am going only by the only logical conclusion you mentioned. Having Classic Sonic elements and being a Classic Sonic game are not the same. The game played more like a Modern Sonic game in a Classic Sonic environment. It uses the Modern Sonic design, and wasn't even intended to be a Sonic 4, being only haphazardly renamed at the last minute, and its level layouts are more in line with what 2D sections in Modern Sonic games did rather than any of the Classic Sonic games.
Classic Sonic deserves his own series of games and definitely should stay alive! but should stay out of modern games. Classic games should stick to the classic gameplay mechanics from the first 3 mainline games for fans who prefer the classic era gameplay. And for the Modern Games, Sonic Team should keep expanding and create more unique gameplay mechanics and environments. (No more Green Hill Chemical plant etc.) this will work great for people who want to experience new gameplay but also want a taste of the classics via the classic games! KEEP CLASSIC SONIC ALIVE!!
I only mildly disagree. If Classic is to come back in a modern game, it MUST make sense and be intended from the start in game design. Generations is how to do it, being a Modern AND Classic Sonic game where both were equal billing and respecting the legacy of the franchise while also standing tall on its own. If you take either Sonic out of Generations, the game collapses hard. Forces is how not to do it, slapping Classic in because Classic while not bothering to make sense and just say "Hey, its Classic Sonic!". If you took out Classic Sonic, nothing changes, including the quality of the game, and it would have collapsed with or without him. If the two are ever gonna intermingle again, it has to go all-in like they did in Generations. Edit: Also do so sparingly. The two Sonics coming together should feel like an awesome special occasion, not some formulaic crap or asspull.
i completely agree i feel like people are hating on sonic superstars just because classic sonic is in it which i think is a bit stupid tbh and i don’t see the problem with it i like classic sonic
My main concern with keeping Classic around we’ll never get a Modern 2D game. I feel like there’s way more untapped potential with Modern than with Classic. Dimps was ahead of it’s time with the Advance Trilogy and Rush. Too bad 4 is the only game they left behind so that’s what they’re remembered by.
Thank you! I agree. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a 2D game that features the modern character designs. But thanks to this Classic/Modern divide that the fans keep insisting on, we'll likely never see something like that again. It's all just setting unnecessary limitations on these games, and that's not an improvement. And I know that some Classic purist will use that excuse "but Superstars is entirely new!" Ok, so it's not a Classic game, is it? It's a new one that's just been labelled a Classic game. That's all Classic is at this point; a label that's basically "Not Modern, therefore good!" Superstars is getting a new character. So what, whenever Sega introduce a new character into a Modern game it's the usual "Urgh, too many stupid characters, Sonic's stinky friends, get rid of 'em" complaints, but do the same in a Classic game and no one bats an eyelid? I also don't know if it's true, but I heard that one of the new abilities granted by the Chaos Emeralds in this game is the ability to attack enemies automatically. So, a homing attack? From the Modern games? And Classic Sonic is grinding on rails, like in a Modern game! Seriously, they're just picking and choosing whatever they want to be in this game, and honestly there'd be nothing wrong with that, except the one "rule" that they won't break is "no coloured irises in a 2D game from now on!" Give me a break!
I agree, if people hate seeing him just don’t play the games, there’s other medias that have sonic and classic as the same entity I mean they kinda are in the main stuff just due to generations the whole classic timeline became its own universe, where it’s just the characters but younger
@@bizmak3116 Exactly it's not that hard to not play the games. I've never been interested in modern Sonic so I don't play the games. I hate 3D Mario so I don't play those games either.
My personal grudge of Classic still being around is the fact that we now have two separate Sonics. I liked it much better when Sonic was just Sonic and kept evolving through the years.
@@romus1299 That doesn't change the fact that they are still separated. They are unable to just roll with one Sonic. "We want to move the series forward." These fools are lying to themselves. They keep chaining themselves to the past.
@@lafbkhope5391Exactly! People keep saying "we want to see Classic Sonic evolve on his own!" What they're basically saying is that they refuse to accept that Classic Sonic evolved into Modern Sonic; that they are one and the same!
I saw an absolutely awful take today from a person saying Classic sonic needs to DIE! However Classic Sonic has never once been the main issue. The main issue was how much Sega loved to throw him into games that shouldn't have had him in it! There should be more polished games for both Classic modern boost games and then also the new generation games. Boost games should be entirely boost! Classic should be entirely Classic And the new generation games should do whatever they want
I watched that YT video as well. I left a dislike there. Personally I would love it if there were entirely new Classic Sonic games. Classic Sonic is the only Sonic I'm interested in video games.
@@lynntaylor9681 From what I can tell Sonic Team are going to be alternating through the styles. New Gen Classic Modern I'm guessing there's going to be remasters too We should be getting a new boost game in 2024
While I agree with you, he only was ever in one game he didn't belong in: Forces. Other than that, he was in Generations, which was deliberately designed as a Modern and Classic in equal footing game, and that's pretty much it.
I feel like part of the reason that some people feel this way is that some people, mainly Modern Sonic fans, really miss the Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush games, which had there own set of mechanics that were unique to those games. And they were also 2D Sonic games. They were different from the Classic Sonic games because of the different mechanics like the boost and the modern aesthetics. I think people just miss those types of games and the modern fans want that type of game again, which to be fair I am all for. I am all for another Advance or Rush styled game, and I think that Classic and Modern can coexist in the same realm.
after seeing most of the official renders for sonic superstars I have come to a theory about the game. Almost every render of classic sonic has him holding the green chaos emerald, and while the others are holding ones as well and I shouldn't be thinking about this as hard as I am, him holding the green one specifically is making the gears in my head turn, so I got an idea in my head, what if the reason for how sonic gets green eyes in the future is because he absorbed chaos energy from an emerald, the green emerald. Now while that does sound weird, I don't think its impossible or too far off to happen in this series, sonic frontiers helps me with this idea. When you collect over 400 rings in sonic frontiers sonic gets a superpowered boost and a small cutscene to show this, and sure it is a cool power up but the thing that got my attention was how sonic's eyes turned blue after he gets the power boost, and while im pretty sure it is a nod to movie sonic, that fact his eyes changed color after a power up just helps my theory. And finally, the final reason why I think this, when sonic turns into super sonic, his eyes turn red correct? well, modern sonic's eyes turn red, but what do classic sonic's eyes turn into in the original games?...GREEN.
I don't understand why meticulous scrutiny has to be placed in taking the Sonic from the 90s, bringing it back to that point and developing him from there. In a series that has dared to experiment, there's no shame in using the foundations of the original games to develop new original projects. Heck I don't even see why some nostalgia is bad. Sonic Mania had a lot of it, but it was also a stunningly made game. Arguably never before had such bustling large zone maps existed for a 2d classic Sonic game, save for maybe Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I think some of the people against it envision like 100 redundant Sonic fangame-like titles being created, with no experimentation on gameplay. But people forget that Sonic has and always will have a flare for experimentation. Sonic 3d Blast, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic CD were all experimental despite being from the classic age. And if a title like Mania comes about every now and then, where it's just a really good game that tries and succeeds at what's being done before, I see literally no problem. People seem so scared about the meta that we're actually shaking our head at good Sonic games.
Hell, let's get some Game Gear games on the mix too. Say what you will about them but Sonic Labyrinth tried something new. Tails Adventure tried something new. Sonic Chaos tried something new and led into Sonic Triple Trouble which also tried something new. Experimentation is Sonic's forte, and while he won't always get it right, you gotta stumble to make gold. Besides, its not like Modern Sonic doesn't have his fair share of stumbles.
personally as long as Classic doesn't forcefully show his face in a Modern game, he's cool i mean if the Classic brand was dropped then Mighty, Ray, and Team Hooligan characters would just... cease
As would many of Eggman's robots - like the Hard-Boiled Heavies, Metal Knuckles, and Tails Doll - since they've now all been deemed as Classic-exclusive characters.
What about just making modern redesigns for these characters then? I hate how some characters are exclusive to the "classic side" of the series. Heck, this could be vice-versa as well. What if we gave characters like Rouge and Blaze a classic design?
@@andarilho_31, because some people (like me) prefer the Classic character designs and don't want to see the Modern characters in a Classic Sonic game. The appeal of a Classic Sonic game is that it's NOT Modern Sonic; it's "back to basics".
It's literally just Sonic Fan's unnatural and entirely unjustified hateboners for Sonic Forces clouding their judgement on anything and everything in this franchise--including classic sonic. I've hated the guy since Generations, but it's so easy to just... ignore classic sonic. Nobody's holding me at gunpoint to preorder Superstars. I'm not disarming a bomb where the only way to cut wires is to 100% Sonic Mania. Even in Forces, supposedly the worst offender, they shortened classics levels and absolutely busted the spindash and dropdash so you can knock these things out in less than a minute. Classic is not that big of a deal.
I agree, he's not overused people are just over how cheap he was in Forces I think. What's your favorite mainline Sonic games BTW? Maybe top three Classic & separately top three Modern. (For simplicity sake Generations & Forces can count as Modern; I'm only really thinking the games with primarily Genesis esque gameplay in terms of Classic.)
I do have an argument about this fiasco: People are rather sick of useage of classic sonic media rather than classic sonic himself. I mean stuff like green hill zone appearing in every single sonic media these days and making throwbacks to classic sonic days every second or just making lazy unfinished ports of classic sonic games. You know what I mean. After sonic generations they simply capitalised classic sonic way too much that people have almost no nostalgia on classic sonic anymore and they need to stop. But no they do what Nintendo does. And also I don't mean sonic superstars is bad or anything I just say that classic sonic media is overcapitalised as hell. They just need to stop using nostalgia for a while.
The only thing I don’t like is the separation between classic and modern and them having different personalities despite always being the same, I like the concept of younger sonic being the sonic from the games pre-adventure on the genesis and Saturn, but he’s always had that personality… until generations took away his voice, you know, that thing that sonic was advertised for being a snarky smart*ss with an attitude and impatience, with a voice in sonic CD! I don’t mind it, I just don’t like how he was handled in generations and forces as this cute Mickey Mouse figure that isn’t the same as the one we have now which is the exact opposite of what he was in the 90’s, but I think they’ve been handling him much better and I’m incredibly exited for superstars… that alternate dimension stuff didn’t happen-
Green hill has overstayed its welcome more than classic sonic I can understand that frustration but to say classic sonic has overstayed its welcome ehh.... It's a moot point (mostly because it's not true) Sega needs classic sonic, he's not going anywhere. Classic sobic serves as familiarity to many people, the character and the gameplay. What sells better than anything? Something you've experienced already but different. This isn't downplaying the new aspects of superstars either but at its core its a very familiar produxt for hard-core fans but also 30-somethings who long for the good old days too
Imo people that are complaining are probably thinking "If you're making a 2.5d game, why not make it a Modern game?" I guess they think that just bc Classic Sonic appeared again means that we'll never get a modern 2d game. It's not just nostalgia, SEGA knows that Classic Sonic is appealing bc the 2d games are the most consistent ones and people play then since the 90's, they're making it 2.5d to appeal to new players, they literally said "New thrills, Classic feels" lol. It's ok to have expectations, but Classic Sonic doesn't need to die for this.
Ah, but the thing is, the modern Sonic (made in Adventure first-hand) did try 2D before, and it handles not much differently than the retro iteration, so who's to say that the retro version cannot have 3D gameplay? But yeah, Superstars, I may not expect the game to announce, but honestly, I’m just glad they just decided to move away from what I dubbed “Generations methodology” when revisiting past games in stages when all I need is new stages, that’s it.
I'm 43 and I don't like modern Sonic. I grew up playing the classic Sonic games in middle school and the beginning of high school. I stopped after Sonic & Knuckles came out. The last Sonic game I played was Sonic Mania.
Nowadays a lot of people seem to be looking through a lens of Classic Sonic being a relic of the past and something that is best left there while letting Modern Sonic take the entirety of the games. Thing is, a LOT of fans of Sonic are in fact Classic Sonic fans who were there as kids playing Sonic 1-3&K, and now that Sega has seen that the Classic era fans still exist and are still plentiful, killing him off now would be no different from them saying "We don't need or want you anymore. You are irrelevant.". And that is suicidal because if they did do that to Classic Sonic when he is diverging into his own style of games, its only a matter of time before they do the same to Modern Sonic. Modern Sonic is A Sonic. He is not THE definitive Sonic. The two are even outright confirmed completely different Sonics altogether.
@ohosmandivine6770 Not quite so much anymore. Classic Sonic is the only one who can run the whole Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe while only Modern Sonic can do darker, more developed stories well. Classic Sonic fits more for the traditional video gamey platforming while Modern Sonic does the high-octane action platforming best. Plus again, Sega has pretty much all but confirmed the two Sonics as separate at this point.
@ohosmandivine6770 SatAM and AoStH have nothing to do with the games beyond having Sonic in it. They are not even acknowledged in any of the games. They are completely unrelated to anything. Meanwhile the genesis Sonic games and Classic Sonic do not necessarily mean they are the same Classic Sonic. I will run a bit of speculation here for the moment, but if we assume by Forces that THAT particular Classic Sonic was another dimension one and not his past self, then games like Mania and now Superstars no longer mess with the canon. In other words, both Classic Sonics exist and the one we see in Superstars is the one from Forces. Its also the only way both claims make sense while also respecting Generations, especially since Forces itself is still every bit as canon.
@ohosmandivine6770 I hardly doubt anyone would consider Tails tube as any legitimate source of canon. Its just a side thing they do for fun. Its about as canon as the Twitter Takeovers. As for Superstars, there's no reason it wouldn't be. I mean, Forces is canon which by extension definitively makes Mania canon as the two games are narratively directly linked. But Sonic never went through Mania in the past, nor is it ever referenced in Frontiers in regards to story.
@@GameAW1The information in TailsTube is canon, just presented in a fun RU-vid blog like show. However, Iizuka, Flynn, and Katie, the social media manager of Sonic, have stated that Classic Sonic is just younger Sonic and Superstars takes place in the same timeline as Frontiers
Well, I was excited about a possible 2D Modern game, I am still excited for Sonic Superstars. Honestly, idk where to stand in this argument. I'm sort of in the middle of all this. All in all, I'm not a fan of Classic Sonic, I'm not a fan of Modern Sonic, I'm just fan of Sonic the Hedgehog.
I've always loved and prefered Classic Sonic's gameplay over the Modern Sonic. This video covers pretty much everything I think about the topic and I cannot be more than happy he is coming back at all. These games don't happen all the time. After Mania i figured that was going to be it for the next 10 years or so
i agree with pretty much all of this, and even though the "more money" part feels scummy, it does really make sense. besides, sonic mania and (hopefully) sonic superstars will be polished, basically great games so it just feels wrong to take him out of the picture and let that chance go. with all that being said, i think the main argument (in my perspective) against classic sonic is that he shouldn't have stayed after generations. gens was a trip through memory lane, so it makes sense to portray sonic as both his modern look and classic look. that was supposed to be it. a sonic of the old and a sonic of the new. but now, sega is pushing classic sonic back into the spotlight, making them pretty much two different characters. now it's no longer sonic with his classic appearance and modern appearance. it's now "modern sonic" and "classic sonic". the "sonic of the old" is now becoming new again, and has to go against its' modern counterpart. that's just bad business practice, even if it makes money. instead of classic sonic fans giving modern sonic a chance because their sonic isn't even here anymore, they'll just go "oh, another modern sonic game. i won't buy it, i know there will be a classic sonic game sometime in the future". furthermore, classic sonic and modern sonic being in the same game, while hopefully not going to happen again anytime soon, is just completely wrong to do. not only is there a divide, now the opposing sides are crammed to each other, and they make each other way worse in turn. while i'm incredibly happy classic sonic is here to stay, he shouldn't have been here in the first place. there should've been only one sonic. modern sonic should've been classic sonic but reimagined, instead of them being two different characters. basically, the end doesn't justify the means. the end is the great content classic sonic could bring in the future. the means is "classic sonic" existing in the first place. to end this however, i will just say that i know there's people that are both classic sonic and modern sonic fans at the same time. i'm even one of them! i'm happy to have both sonics here, and it's basically a "OMG TWO CAKES!!" situation for me. i just wrote this for the sole classic sonic and sole modern sonic fans. the "their cake is better than mine..." situation. contrary to the connotation however, no judgement to them! keep liking what you like, and disliking what you don't. just don't be outrageous about it.
Historically, a lot of fans of the classic Sonic gameplay were feeling snubbed year after year when the Adventure games came by and pretty much had only the Advance games to sort of make do with, which clearly were not good enough substitutes. Bringing Classic Sonic as a separate style strictly focused on the older, simpler gameplay basically brings back fans alienated by Sonic's more complex outings and gives them exactly what they wanted from the start. The divide was already there. Having the two playstyles separate and associating them with two versions of their world only serves to mend it and meet both fanbases halfway.
I personally think they can make 2D games without using that design. Mario doesn't reuse their old design Everytime they made a new 2D plattaforming. That basically means we are not going to get any 2D game with the modern design.
Sonic advance 1, 2, 3 happened. So did sonic rush and rush adventure as well as colours ds. And sonic 4 ep1 and 2. Yeah - these days they probably won’t however there’s actually more mainline entries that are 2d games with the modern design than the classic one.
@@OfficialFluteSaladSorry, but you can use that exact same argument against your point. "We want a brand new 2D game with the Classic character designs!" "Sonic 1, 2, and 3 happened!" "So did Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic CD!" "And Sonic Chaos and Sonic Blast!" There is nothing wrong with Sega making a brand new 2D game with the momentum based physics of Mania but with the Modern character designs. This way any character could potentially be in it and it isn't divisive amongst the fans! It could feature Shadow, Rouge, Cream and Cheese, Blaze, Silver, the Chaotix, and even characters like Mighty and Ray with updated Modern designs. Yet we'll likely never get that because so many Classic purists see this as utter blasphemy! And Sega will ultimately listen to them because apparently people with toxic negativity towards the Sonic series get listened to more than actual fans who have a more positive outlook on the series. It's ridiculous!
“Classic sonic appears in modern games too much” He’s literally only appeared alongside modern sonic twice and he hasn’t done that in over 5 1/2 years. Also (not counting Origins as that is simply a port of older games and a remake of sonic 3) he hasn’t had a new game since 2017 (2018 if you count mania plus, but I see that a DLC.) Plus considering we’ve been getting plenty of modern content (IDW, Sonic Colors Ultimate, Team Sonic Racing, Sonic Prime, Sonic Frontiers) I don’t think it’s bad for Classic Sonic to get at least one new game. As long as they’re bringing something new to the table (which superstars most definitely is) I don’t see anything wrong with classic sonic appearing every once in a while (although I would prefer if he stays out of modern games, at least for a while. Let both of modern and classic be awesome in their own right before they crossover again.)
I see you point But when I heard "new 2D game" I thought we were getting a Modern Sonic 2D akin to Advance and Rush And not Classic But i don't actually mind Classic appearing as much as others
You bring up some good arguments. The only time I didn't like Classic Sonic was in Forces. Because it felt more like a marketing ploy. The only somewhat fair argument I can see for someone wanting him gone is that Sonic grew up from classic a while ago and going back to that style makes him feel like he is going in the wrong direction. I heard some people try to say that Classic Sonic is a different character but he isn't. The reason people said that is because of a line saying that he's from a different dimension even though it's so vague and can be interpreted as him meaning a branching timeline. Because that's what classic Sonic is. Quite literally people ignored Generations main story how he is from the past with one line from a confused game. Also Frontiers clears the air and makes it transparent that yes they are from the same person.
I think this is a case of people wording their opinion wrong. The issue isn't so much Classic Sonic himself in isolation, but rather the use of his iconography as whole throughout the past decade. We had Sonic 4, his appearance in Generations, Lost World using 2D and bland aesthetics, Mania (despite it being well-received), and the unnecessary inclusion Forces and now the Cyberspace levels in Frontiers. But I also find it weird cuz because this is type of game we have been wanting in some ways. A follow-up to Mania that detaches itself from 3D gameplay. Honestly, people are just complaining about the use of aesthetics, which weirds me out cuz the game genuinely looks good and shows promise, so why then make a stink about it?
Classic sonic in his own games with brand new things is fine. But people want it to just be gone . What if this game is extremely good tho. Think they fear it will be better then frontiers and then sonic team won't focus on modern so much
@@Egood_ty ok, but so what if it's better than frontiers? 2D Mario games always do way better than 3D in terms of sales. Mania did better than Forces, and yet we still ended up getting Frontiers anyway. The idea that 2D Sonic doing better than 3D Sonic is enough for them to just drop 3D for the next game makes no sense from a business standpoint. This really just seems like SEGA actually trying to please both sides of the fanbase without forcing the gameplay styles together. 3D fans get Frontiers and it's new DLC in the coming months, 2D fans get Origins Plus and Superstars. Literally everyone wins.
Lost world ‘’ Modern only 💀 Frontiers Modern Only 💀 Lost world doesn’t have classic sonic, but it sure as hell has Badniks, Green Hill and is stylized like Classic Sonic. Infact, Classic sonic was in concept art for Lost world showing how much that game was based off of him Frontiers has Green Hill, Chemical Plant and etc. It’s still mainly Modern but still has that over saturation of Classic Sonic Unleashed even had 2D Sections just to mention that
@@OfficialFluteSaladYeah Colours and Forces do have Classic Sonic elements I guess u could say Adventure does have Classic Elements but shouldn’t be considered a Classic game because it’s clearly different I wouldn’t even call it a Modern sonic game
In all honesty I like that they’re doing it as like 2d is traditional sonic ( aka classic sonic ) which I think is cool to expand the story after sonic 3 meanwhile 3D is all based on modern sonic. But I just hope they do modern cast 2d games in the future since I think it would really expand the gameplay. But I’m fine with classic sonic, but I hope he doesn’t lose his edge. Just don’t want him to be a teddy bear lol
I agree how people just hate classic sonic OK and honestly I don’t mind he was in forces it connects Masonic mania’s good ending or so I can send through a phantom ruby portal which day would lead to forces, and then when he leaves at the end that starts manias encore story it’s just how people want this guy to die It’s it’s Disgraceful Disgusting Despicable
It's not just the inclusion of Classic Sonic though, it's the fact that every single MODERN game has some kind of Classic element or trope that has just overstayed it's welcome. Like Green Hill; so many fans are just bored with it now, and it just comes across as Sega being lazy. As for Classic Sonic himself, I just don't get the obsession with this mere character design and people treating it like it should be an entirely separate character to the Sonic that we had since 1998. I also think that it's setting unnecessary limitations on these games. For example, people are saying that only Classic Sonic can be in 2D games from now on while Modern Sonic can only be in 3D ones. The problem with this is that the 2D momentum based gameplay of the original Sonic games and Mania are universally loved by practically all Sonic fans, and now apparently only Classic characters can be in those types of games? That's already like half of the established Sonic cast denied from those games, including fan favourites like Shadow and Silver who have never been in a momentum based 2D game before, and thanks to these "rules" they now never can be. Heck, even Modern characters like Cream and Blaze debuted in 2D games themselves, and now they'll never appear in a 2D game ever again because "Classic Only!" Meanwhile the Modern games apparently can only have stuff like boosting gameplay or experimental gameplay like Sonic Lost World that are either divisive or unfairly bashed by overly critical critics, haters and detractors because "that's not like the good ol' days! That's not what Sonic should be! Sonic can only ever work in 2D, etc!" It's like they're just setting up Modern games to fail, and that hardly seems fair. People are always saying that they don't care about Sonic's design, but for a lot of Sonic fans I've spoken to about this subject, that is clearly a lie! I've suggested that Sega could make a brand new 2D game with the gameplay and physics of Mania but with the Modern character designs, so that way no character can be purposefully excluded, Classic characters like Mighty or Ray can also be included with updated designs, and all I ever hear is "Oh no no no! They can't do that! Modern characters can't be in a 2D game! You can't just redesign Classic characters like that! Why would Sega just abandon Classic Sonic! They can't get rid of Classic Sonic! SAVE CLASSIC SONIC! IF THEY'RE GONNA GET RID OF A SONIC, THEY SHOULD GET RID OF THAT STINKY GREEN EYED SONIC, NOT MY SONIC! HE'S THE REAL SONIC!!!!! Basically, all this boils down to is Sega are appealing to whiney fan boys who complain "I'm not playing that game because Sonic has green eyes in it!" And they've had this mindset for more than a decade now. It's just ridiculous!
What’s wrong with classic sonic he’s so cute and short I’d just pay his head he’s Og I love classic sonic and if you dare delete classic sonic you will lose existence privileges
You make it sound like there hasn’t been nostalgia pandering!😂 Name all the games with green hill zone, I dare you. Frontiers was literally filled with reused assets level design and Zones. Guess what, there was green hill again!
Sonic Adventure 2/Battle, Sonic Generations, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers (being the last game ever probably to do this). Frontiers being the most tragic since development wasn't very good from what I hear on that game (They literally reuse level designs from past games too)
Ummm..... i agreed with the first part of this not this that said he needs to live.... I mean classic sonic did he overstay his welcome for way to long since 2013
@@bobbovine Honestly think the situations are too different to be classified as the same. When Sonic Unleashed came out, the major backlash was from the general gaming community and critics, seeing Sonic jump the shark again by turning into a werewolf God of War clone. From what I've seen of forums at the time, it's a lot more similar to the discussion that the community has now about the game; where people were split on the game, though most leaned positively towards the day stages and more negatively towards the night stages. While when Sonic Lost World came out, it was met with a resounding.. "meeh.." after the success of Generations and just seen as a bog-standard Mario clone. So of course, Unleashed is going to get more positive of a reputation when it's overall connotation is known as "The terrible game where Sonic turns into a werewolf" after Sonic 06 happened, and the hate and reputation moves on; only leaving the fans of the game, and those who grew up with it to continue talking about their thoughts on the game. It also helped that Sonic Unleashed released on 360/PS3 while SLW released on Wii U, which is a much smaller player base(though it was later re-released on Steam).
My main problem with Superstars being classic is that it could've easily been a modern game, and I'm not just talking about the model but the gameplay. At least they're adding the Emerald powers to spice up the game play because I'm not a fan of the one button gameplay of Classic
@@gunman8452 tbh I feel the same way. Although I wish they could blend all 3 (boost/mach speed, adventure, and rush 2d) style gameplay into just one game someday in the future. I've seen a few fan games pull this off really well. But I like the idea if the level sometimes just switched to 2d and its a rush styled level and not just a straight line. or at least I think. This might be very hard for me to articulate Idk I don't actually care for the modern/3D games but I thought it was an interesting idea :)
…..so you’re saying a bunch of light and classic vibing levels also with fang returning could’ve been a modern sonic game? I’m sorry but making superstars a modern sonic game just doesn’t make any sense.
@@Stickboy321Go it was designed to be a classic game ofc it'd have classic styled levels, what kind of question is that? A Rush 3 would've been better than Superstars
@@gunman8452 Seriously…..a rush 3? Look sonic rush is fine but the best thing about it is the soundtrack and I think it doesn’t deserve a sequel ngl and it’s pretty much the second most overrated sonic game next to mania. If anything that deserves a sequel it should be adventure (even if sonic 06 sucks I still kinda count it as adventure 3) and besides I guess you got a point in the designs of it but sonic superstars is a happy game when you think about it. Even the title doesn’t fit for a modern sonic game so I think it suits as a classic sonic game for now.
@@pinktrutle1490it was literally marketed as a Classic Sonic game, you can say whatever you want, deny all you want for all I care. Sonic 4 is NOT supposed to be a modern sonic game and therefore shall not count as one, it's literally in the name. Elements aren't irrelevant, cuz they literally make the game what it is.
@@OfficialFluteSalad so all it would take is just a model swap to classify something as classic or modern now? Sounds disingenuous, but ok, good to know
personally I think it's not just classic sonic but classic sonic related things, at least for me I'm tired of green hill, chemical plant and all the nostalgia pandering stuff they do related to the old games and with superstars despite being a new "classic" sonic game they keep referencing the old games and having chip tune type music instead of modernising it a bit while keeping the feel. Honestly I just want a fully original sonic game or at least a truly great sonic game and we haven't had that since gens over a decade ago (technically mania was also good but was brought back by the level remixes of yet again green hill,chemical plant etc)
Modern sonic deserves to DIE!! we need to make way for the second coming of SONIC BOOM it NEEDS that attention again (Obviously satire, but some more sonic boom content thats ACTUALLY good would be nice, sega)
Classic Sonic games: Sonic 1 (1991) Sonic 2 (1992) Sonic 3&K (1994) Sonic CD (1993) Sonic Mania (2017) Sonic superstar (2023) Modern sonic games: Sonic adventure 1 (1998) Sonic adventure 2 (2001) Sonic heroes (2004) Sonic 06 (2006) Sonic and the secret rings (2007) Sonic unleashed (2008) Sonic and the black knights (2009) Sonic 4 episode 1 (2010) Sonic colors (2010) Sonic generation (2011) Sonic 4 episode 2 (2012) Sonic lost world (2013) Sonic forces (2017) Sonic frontier (2022) Classic Sonic games: 7 modern sonic games: 14 Classic Sonic didn't overstay his welcome.
Classic Sonic was in Sonic Generations and Forces also. Classic Sonic is a thing created only for Generations and just like Wisps in Colors, he should stay only there. Before Generations there wasn't something like Classic Sonic. Superstars should be a normal Sonic game with a normal Modern Sonic but I know that Classic fanboys will not understand.
@@xNeroGamerPLMan, I wish there was more people with brains or especially true sonic fans in this fandom like flute salad unlike you. Trying to remove a side? Classic and modern is what keeps the franchise together so you trying to remove it shows you’re only trying to destroy it man.
Again, a terrible rebuttal to this argument that fails to understand why people want Classic to "die". For one, Modern Sonic gets more games than Classic because he is the MAIN Sonic. The concept of him being different from Classic only existed AFTER Generations. And even then, it's not really a surprise that Classic Sonic only got 2 major games in the last five years, when Modern Sonic also only got 2 major games in the last give years, one of which was shared with Classic Sonic. It's almost like the series doesn't have yearly mainline releases like some other franchises. If you take in everything in consideration, the only notable Sonic games that Classic has not appeared in was Lost World Sonic Colors Ultimate, and Team Sonic Racing. To pretend that he wasn't been oversaturated is just revisionist history that's ignoring how much people were complaining about Classic Sonic being overused before, during, and after Sonic Forces. Second, Classic Sonic staying around hurts the series in the long run. Modern should not ONLY get 3D games, and this wasn't the case until Generations dropped. We USED to get 2D Modern Sonic games all the time, like the Advanced Series, the Rush series, Colors DS, and yes, Sonic 4 as well. And at every game, baring the last one, was proof enough that you didn't need Classic to have 2D platforming gameplay. So why do we need him now? I'll tell you why; Nostalgia. I don't care if Superstars has original zones, it's still using legacy designs that market primarily to Classic Fans and non-fans that genuinely believe that the only GOOD Sonic games are the classics. Classic is just more marketable to general audiences than Modern Sonic. Frankly, I want the series to evolve in gameplay, and no, Emerald powers are not an evolution to the 2D gameplay, they're just rebranded wisps. Say goodbye to the possibility of Shadow in a 2D game, or Fang getting into the Modern games. Classic can't allow us to have either of these, and it's why me, Unleash, and many others want Classic Sonic to be shelved like he was always meant to be.
Imagine how the classic fans felt back then when everything after 1998 was modern and the sonic they knew and loved was nowhere to be found. Also if he’s more marketable then why would they not use him, they’re a business at the end of the day.
He's been in 4 mainline games since 1998; that nowhere close to oversaturation when Modern Sonic has been in basically ALL of those titles. As a Classic Sonic fan, I could say that there's an extreme oversaturation of Modern Sonic and that they should have just stuck with Classic Sonic. Classic Sonic is not harming the series in any way. SEGA never said that there wouldn't be any Modern 2D games, only that Modern Sonic would be kept MOSTLY in 3D. Also, some people (like me) prefer the Classic visual style and character designs, as the gameplay is only half of the appeal. We like Classic Sonic because it isn't Modern Sonic. You say that you want the series to evolve its gameplay and Classic Sonic is stunting that, but the Classic series isn't supposed to evolve, that's another part of the appeal; it's not particularly gimmicky or experimental. Most of those elements are completely optional. Again, this isn't hurting the series. Sonic Superstars being made isn't stopping Sonic Team from continuing to develop Sonic Frontiers. You have no argument.
@@Wolfric_Rogers if you prefer Classic then that's your opinion but sometimes what fans want isn't healthy for a series. There were plenty of fans that hate a majority of the cast and only want Sonic and Eggman but I don't think Sonic Team would have ever listened to them either lmao. Again, this is just you being upset that Classic Sonic got replaced with Modern and being bitter about it. Too bad, that's how it was supposed to go. If Sonic Team decided to change the designs again I'd either drop the series or learn to love the new designs. Sometimes a franchise just isn't for you anymore but desperately wanting a series to return to form regardless of how it'll affect the series is harmful. My entire issue with Classic IS that it cannot meaningfully evolve or change, that's incredibly unhealthy for any series. Look at the New Soup games and how much they stagnated because Nintendo wanted to sanitize the Mario series. And now compare that to Odyssey onwards where they've generally loosened up and came up with lots of fun new ideas for the series. I'm not saying that Sonic should keep throwing out the baby with the bath water but they should at least do something new with 2D Sonic that isn't just repainted Wisp powers lmao
@@slumburger1145, I'm not bitter about Modern Sonic replacing Classic Sonic. I was born after Sonic Heroes came out and have no nostalgia for the Classic games at all. However, they just clicked with me in a way that the Modern games (which I had played religiously) didn't. I grew up playing the Modern Sonic games, but came to prefer Classic Sonic. There are some Modern Sonic games that I like over some Classic Sonic games, and I don't think Modern Sonic should die. The only issue I see with the NSMB series is that all of the games came out WAY to close to each other. there wouldn't be an issue if they were more placed out in releases. Again, I grew up with the 3D Mario games until someone suggested one of the NSMB games, and I loved it. For some of us, nostalgia has literally nothing to do with it.
My brother in christ. Classic sonic is my least favourite version of sonic. I have the eligibility to become a partner and earn from youtube but i haven’t - then it turns from fun into stressful. You are wrong on both parts. Next time actually know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth.
