Clerics Revisited | Web DM | TTRPG | D&D 

If you want to play a war cleric I must recommend taking the great weapon master feat and using a heavy weapon of your choice. The +10 to hit ability means you can turn around a miss with the -5. Not to mention with your extra attacks from class and feat you can attack twice pretty much whenever you need to. I'm playing one in a campaign right now and I can hang with the barbarian for melee damage even at level 5.

You mentioned Piety from the Theros book. Another great thing is commandments from the Wildemount. I do this for everyone who says they pray to a deity or get divine power. 1D4+2 commandments. Most are nebulous and abstract and written in the same style as the Wildemout commandments are, be stoic in the face of adversity, but one or two of them are actual you need to do this thing. Example once a month eat a meal of game taken by your own skill and prepare and eat it in solemn remembrance of lost allies or provide a feast capable of feeding scores and devout it to inspire others to walk a similar path. They can lose piety for breaking commandments, but they really only gain it for the big ones. Then once they have enough piety to start getting boons then they start getting contacts either through the church or through the divine on what is needed of them.

I definitely miss clerics getting the proficiency of their deity's favored weapon.

Just what I needed. Working on a Cleric right now. Thank you Web DM!

Honestly could use more videos on clerics and building the divine sense of our worlds in general. Something doesn't sit right with me and the way WizardsotC went with the portfolio system of godhood. I liked the way you talked about a spiritual world and would love to hear more flavor about what is the divine and what inspires/powers these beings and their priests

Monks lived cloistered in monestaries. Friars were basically travelling monks. A Cleric was just an ordained clergyman, ranging from Deacon to Pope.

On the 'calling down a miracle' idea. I think that is bang on. I used to play an iteration of DnD using Rollmaster Rules. In that game Clerics has a pool of 'Piety' points. They prayed each day and game 1-4 piety points. I don't believe there was a cap. So as you set off adventuring you might have 80-90 or more piety points. Spells needed a varying degree of piety to cast ranging from 2-9 points. In this game all the skills were based on d100% and you need to roll over 101 to succeed. So a cleric could expend a portion (or all) of their piety points to call down a miracle...if you used up 40 piety points you got 40+d100 and had to get over 101 to succeed. The dm would use discretion to determine the outcome. So all that said I think the cleric having some sort of ability to call on their diety for a miracle makes total sense...with degree for success increasing as you increase in level. I'm not sure if it could be as simple as the dice modifier being 1/2 your level to a d20 vs a set DC by the DM...with a 10 day/30day cooldown? Thanks for the video - this is great!

This was well timed. I’m introducing a Forge Cleric to my party this weekend

If you think nature is poorly designed because of the channel divinity, then you are forgetting how powerful thorn whip and spirit guardians is

I personally think that with the Paladin being an core class in the game. I think the Cleric should be more focused to be the Divine Caster, less front line combat. To help make the two have better/clearer difference between the two. And I think that Oaths AND Domains should be chosen for both Clerics and Paladins. Paladins are Divine fighters so I think something that more concrete tie them to their gods should be there. Also Clerics should give an Oath to their god to be granted the blessing of divine power. Great video as always.

"Clerics domains and extra features make them more flavorful than Wizzies" also "We should give clerics Wish" XD Great breakdown & supposition! Looking forward to the Next class vid!

Pointy Hat floated the idea of a Possession-path barbarian, since so much barb stuff is talking about spirits. Bring the rageful spirit of an ancestor into you, or the protective soul of a parent who sacrificed themself for a child, etc, for different effects.

Is it okay to ask what happened to their video's sound quality?

I wish they would bring spheres back. It was such a great way to flavor each religion.

And another day passes that I miss web dm

I have a cleric that is a devotee of a deity of wisdom. When they successfully use divine intervention, they _know_ something as absolute truth that forces a favorable outcome. An example being they _know_ that there is a weak link in the knee joint of the bbeg's armor and if they strike it in such a way that they _know_ how to do it will drive that link into an old wound and cripple them (permanently affect them with the effects of the slow spell until they are healed by regeneration or higher spell equivalent). For other cleric types, I have used the model in the past where when they succeed a divine intervention, they are given a specific course of action to complete that doesn't make any intuitive sense for the situation. If they take it on faith and do as instructed, there is an elaborate and near comically long-odd chain of events that it sets into motion that decisively tips the situation in the cleric's favor. I like this style of intervention, even though it usually requires me to call a short break to come up with some ridiculous chain of event, because it seems much more 'divine' in nature than just obliterating stuff or sending a laughably powerful being. I prefer my deities to have to be more subtle in how they are allowed to throw their power around by cosmic law to give them a reason to need and use mortal followers.

Man, I totally forgot how spheres worked in 2e, and now I miss it. I like how this distinguishes the class much more. Let's bring back the concept of a deity's portfolio!

our party got a boon from their patron, Magic Initiate feat for free, but Warlock only. Our warpriest often uses it but also has to balance it against the warpriest bonus attack, makes a difference at 11th level though. Called a Valkyrie to cleanse an evil temple with Divine Intervention, that was swole!

I adore clerics. In my long running world, I have a world spanning group of clerics that operate as independent special operators. Think SEAL Team 6. They form political alliances with the royalty and the Arcane Elite to finance new magic items and specialty gear. Like Mithril platemail you can swim in. Or "oil of silence" which makes things coated in it perfectly silent. They're absolute beasts in and out of combat and the forces of evil recognize their sigil.

lol that thumbnail is great

Ha, I fairly recently made a post on Reddit saying that classes should stop gaining features after 10th level, and levels from there to 20 are just feature improvements.

Honestly, I think that a War Cleric getting Extra Attack at level 6 or 7 would be perfectly fine. It would be a little later than the main warrior types, but be an improvement to the War Priest ability. Maybe trade a few Domain spells for more crowd control ones. 7th Freedom of Movement -> Evards Black Tentacles 9th Hold Monster -> Wall of Stone

Good video! Why not give War Domain an extra attack at level 6 and take away war priest at level 1? Valor Bard, Hexblade, and Bladesinger all get extra attack at level 6.

In my opinion the war cleric should get extra attack at 6th level. Every other dish subclass in the sub class in the game boring the hexblade gets extra attack at 6th level and the explain gets access to it at 5th if they took packed up the blade. I think that the fact that It's A-war cleric doesn't just get extra attack is a Tragedy. Sorry about the format talk to text

At higher levels Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians feel like a strait jacket. I hope they get a more varied spell list, or more significant domain features at level 8.

altough the bard is considered the jack of all trades.. and rogue has this amazing skill set... cleric feels the most versatile class to me. I have so many cleric concepts ready.

On your point for the spell lists. Could it be fixed by as simply as extending the divine domain spells extending to all of the spell levels rather than stopping at 5th level? Mind you i guess at that time the options of the list are pretty limited anyway?

0:00-0:01 when I see a cleric video

The main change to clerics I make is turning Divine Intervention into the summon system from all the final fantasy games. My setting has has the Astral Sea as the over-god with the four elemental Primes as the parents of all the gods that live on the outer planes. Nessek and Sogellos from 3e Ghostwalk, Denari from 3e Dieties and Demigods, and Titania because I needed an Air prime and I like the idea of the "airhead" of the 4 abandoning her duties to the plane of Air to flit off to the feywild with her husband/son. Don't worry. That's just the way pagan gods are. Everything was fine with the four Primes until the gods of Eberron invaded and started the age of war. This lead to a million years of gods fighting gods and everytime their blood hit one of the four elements left on the battlefield by the Primes new gods were born. A million years of war and the creation of medusas, Aboleths, Ifreeti, and all kinds of other creatures that were the beloved servants of the Primes until they were captured by the invader gods and twisted into monsters. Then the leader of the invader gods, probably the silver flame, was injured and its blood mixed with all 4 elements and the essence of the astral sea. This gave birth to the divine mothers. Two greater Dieties that looked out across the battlefield, shook their heads, waved their hands, and slew all the invader gods. This is why Eberron's gods are "distant" in most settings. They're dead. Then the lesser gods born from the Primes began fighting. The divine mothers punished them by cutting off their access to the astral sea's god sustaining energy. Leaving them to crawl back to the Primes to be sustained by the elemental wells that drew their power from the astral sea. The outer plane gods made realms for themselves and crafted more or less the great wheel. Then the divine mothers created the material plane, but as they were creating humanity a god decided to stake his claim to their world. Bahamut, the son of Tiamat who was the first god born of fire at the dawn of the age of war, crated an aerie in the prime material and sired legions of dragons. The divine mothers did not care for his attitude so they sent their first daughter of 6, the Slayer, Goddess of everything with a Strength score above 15, to end Bahamut. The Slayer slew Bahamut and started an eternity long vendetta between Tiamat, one of her sun god sons Pholtus, and any dragon descended races that choose her side. The Six Daughters and the Divine Mothers are winning that feud by the way. The other gods saw that when Bahamut was slain no new god was sired in his place. Fearing oblivion they gave up on drawing divine sustaining energy from the material plane and its mortals. Until they started to starve and a few got desperate. Odin, a child of the Water Prime Sogellos along with the entire Norse pantheon, took the first risky step. Sif gave him her favorite Labrys, he said his farewells to all his children and his wife, and he traveled to the material plane. He arrived in Bahamut's Aerie holding the axe and was immediately noticed by the Slayer. They locked eyes, and Odin took a knee. He raised the Labrys above his bowed head, offering the handle to the Slayer. The Slayer blinked then smiled. She stalked up with her God dragon slaying great sword Zantetsuken and snatched the labrys out of Odin's hands. He braced himself for death, and then almost fainted in shock as the most deadly sword in creation was gently placed in his still outstretched palms. They looked into each other's eyes once more. Odin nodded. The Slayer smiled and the Labrys became her holy symbol. And that is how the process of sorting out which gods are free to send avatars to the prime material and solicit worship from mortals began. Obey the rules and offer appropriate tribute to the Daughters and you and your whole family can be worshipped by mortals. Break the rules and you're cut off from the god sustaining energy offered by having mortals worship you. Offer lackluster tribute and one or more of the Daughters will bang your wife. Zeus and the rest of the Greek pantheon slotted into the larger Air Prime's pantheon would have died long ago if it weren't for the good will earned by Hera with the Wisdom Goddess the Healer, and Athena with the Int Goddess the Scholar, and Aphrodite with both the Slayer str and the Trickster dex, and Artemis with... well... we all know what Artemis' deal was. Hanging out in the woods with a dozen or so Nymphs and Dryads all the time. Sleeping in a giant pile like hamsters. Where was I again? Oh right! The summon monsters. This incredibly long paraphrasing of my setting's creation myth is why clerics of Odin, Thor, Loki or any water elemental pantheon Dieties can summon Leviathan, Bismarck, or Ramuh and any of the Demigods Ramuh keeps in the massive library he maintains near the heart of Sogellos' realm. But worshippers of the Daughters and the divine mothers can summon Bahamut or the avatar of Odin. Each interesting summon from FF history has a story for why they are the go to errand boys for one of the five big pantheons. Ifrit being the lover of Nessek and the first creature tortured and turned into a beastman by the invader gods. Gilgamesh and Enkidu being defeated and bound by the Daughters after trying to steal Odin's sword while he was summoned a dozen different times. And of course there are many dragons that sided with Tiamat against the Daughters, but many more who are dutiful worshippers of the Daughters. Especially the con goddess the Hero whose tryst with Asterenian ensured dragon kind would not be hunted to extinction. One of the first quest givers in my setting I send players to is the mayor of a rural farming village. He's an ancient red dragon who is elected in a legitimate election every couple years. He takes the elections very seriously and makes sure there is always someone running against him. But all the townspeople don't really care and keep voting for him as they have for the last 800 plus years. The mayor eats about 2% of their livestock every year, but he vigorously defends their community from all external threats which allows them to expand and raise far more livestock than any other village in that country. And when he needs to defend two places at once he hires PCs from the mercenary academy my setting revolves around. PCs who meet the dragon when he's either surveying which ram has the most "moxy" and will be best to put out to stud and sire his next generation of meals. Or when he's wrapping up a trial of some creep who got handsy with the innkeeper or the tavern waitresses. They walk in on the whole town cheering as some guy gets plucked out of a zone of truth and dropped into jaws the size of a townhouse.

my barbarian doesnt get wish at 20th level :(

Been a long time since I checked into this channel where's pruitt?

9th lvl cleric spell instead of wish: Pray Works exactly like wish but instead of getting what you want and the dm corrupting it with technicalities, you almost never get exactly what you want but you always get what you need.

Who actually makes the better necromancer? The wizard or the cleric (death or grave domain)? I need a necromancer for a campaign I'm running.

Wheres pruit? not seen him in a while

16:45 Stuff like that is what's missing. Animism, mysticism. Heck even priests writing angry letters about a doctrinal issue to each other. You can't have that because they can just ask the gods as DnD currently is.

Not a single mention of Trickery Domain… that’s how bad it is unfortunately.

Do druids next

Good callouts in the chat about "witch doctor" as a problematic term.

Healer clerics are kind of the same pigeonholed stereotype as fireball wizard. its a terrible waste of potential

17:45 Exalted?

37:30 Another thing I dislike about DnD clerics. If it's a magic you learn albeit a different tradition from Arcane you get loads of intresting things like is the gods real or are the clerics just mages drinking their own cool aid. And you can have the clergy partly being filled with people who have joined to gain power... God knows that was a big problem in the real medieval church. Saint Ambrose was only baptised on the day he became a Bishop and has never spent a day as a priest before then.

I really don't care much for how DnD handles the divine. It has given us so much about the Gods that we've no longer got room for religion.

Thanks for another awesome video/stream! Any plans on running a Werid Wastelands campaign on twitch? I would love to see it!

I'm really glad you guys are still producing these, even if they're a different format than they used to be. I always appreciate the insights that you offer into the minutiae of dnd.

While I like that a 5e cleric can do more than heal, I dislike that in 5e healing in combat is largely pointless unless you're a life cleric or you're using healing word to whack a mole repeatedly picking teammates off the ground. You can still effectively use healing after a battle of course, but even then natural healing is so strong in 5e that the value of that is questionable. During combat even a life cleric can struggle to keep up with the damage done. I love the efficiency of 5e rules over 2e and 3e in general, but in my game I nerfed natural healing (along with the dying mechanic) closer to 3e and slightly buffed magical healing.

Re: Divine Intervention... I'm glad I'm not the only one unimpressed by the RAW, lol! In my games Clerics get access to it at level 1, with a percentage roll equal to their level, and they get an extra 1% bump at ASI levels; this means a 1% at level 1, 5% at level 4, 10% at level 8, 15% at level 12, and 20% at level 15. To offset this being too OP, I made the cooldown a number of days equaling (27 - class level), so a low level player can get "lucky", but can do so less often than a higher level player. I also tend to grant lesser effects to lower level players, but that's simply because it takes a far lower effect to meet their needs.

I think perhaps War cleric would benefit from something between rage and bladesong, like a passive akin to the twilight domain 30ft aura

Cleric is definitely one of the better made classes in 5e. One minor complaint I have with it is that it kind of has this weird blend of polytheism and monotheism to it, which blurs its identity a bit (since they work a bit differently)

I made a Tank Cleric lol. Warforged Twilight Domain Cleric plate armor and 2 lvls into Artificer to juice my Armor class. I sit at 19 and can obviously go higher with spells. My party needed a tank AND a Cleric. So I figured I would see if I could fill that role. Honestly Twilight Domain Clerics aren't a bad option for a lower level tank for a party. And our channeled divinity is just juicy for myself and my party. Obviously there are better tanks but I am having a absolute blast with this od ball creation.

I love most of ur videos and the open approach u take toward the classes. . . Buuuut I can't help but see this as u trying to paladin the cleric w/o calling it a Paladin. Just my opinion/view. Grain of salt and all tht. 🖖

War cleric if you did have that berserk thing you could add advantage on concentration saves during it

Cast Aid twice at 3rd level and now your whole party has an extra 10 HP. Our party had 6 (including my Cleric) so that's 60 hp. Mass Healing Word on the same number of characters can heal 1D4+ your spell-casting modifier on the same number of people so not quite as good. Also, everyone having +10 HP is MUCH more useful when the enemy Fireball goes off on the party! Healing after the fact is swimming upstream.

I really want to see them frame druids as divine nature casters and toss the Nature domain. Druids were priests historically, and I'd love to see the game match the lore more

I've wanted to do a cleric of the Red Knight for a long time and my first thought was that's a god whose cleric almost certainly learn combar first so probably start off as a Battlemaster, to capture that feeling of battlefield control. So maybe War Cleric gets Manoeuvres instead of the BA Attack? Add a rider that Battlemaster and War Cleric levels stack for Manoeuvre Dice along with maybe some light incentive and you're even encouraging an MC to trade spellcasting for martial prowess.

If Clerics have a melee cantrip you could flavor it as weapon attacks that are blessed with divine energy. Not sure if they have something like Shocking Grasp though.

Good video. Lots of thoughts and ideas to explore. Just off to build me a civilisation domain to build the ultimate monster hunter cleric. The van helsing all extra planar beings can fear as they are tracked down and exorcised from the plane.

I think the Nature Cleric is highly underrated. They get an excellent group of spells and the dampen elements feature is awesome as well. That channel divinity is buns though.

That thing you said about wizards is 100% why I don't play them. Class / subclass features are so lacking.

1:01:04 PREACH! So much bloat in the class spell list and not enough breathing space for thematic domain spells.

You missed your opportunity to sing "Colors Of The Wind" when talking about animism.

What was the deity for your specialty priest? Mine was Tempus. It was super cool to use a blade as a 2E cleric.

i wish enlarge/reduce was on the war cleric spell list. i feel like they really benefit from a few lvls of battle master fighter.

Loved Mage: the Ascension!

Recently, I've been mulling over ideas for Cleric(maybe all Divine magic) having their spells cost only a bonus action to cast; providing something like "Extra Cast", allowing you to cast two spells in a turn, or maybe when a spell slot is used, you are refunded half a spell slot equal to half the spell's level cast rounded down; other forms of changing the action cost of their spells; and a few more half-crocked ideas. These ideas stemmed more from the idea of divine magic shouldn't be as exhausting to cast as it is for the sorcerer who physically has to exert themselves when casting, the aged Wizard constantly pushing the mind CPU limit, and son. Of all the forms of magic, Divine Magic seems "easiest" to cast for the caster. My god is doing it for me you know, but I understand some RP aspects that say the god using you as a vessel can cause exhaustion and stuff like that. However, I do like the idea of the Cleric being able to cast more than the other classes, based on their level of devotion to their god and their domains. DnD does shy from rewarding players with strong in-game mechanics, especially combat ones, for RPing well, but I hope 6e will drop this fear. I think, if the design philosophy were to head in that direction, it would benefit Clerics and Warlocks a lot.