Clones Aren't Killing Gaming - They're Saving It

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Videogame clones have been around for almost as long as videogames themselves - and ever since then, they've been accused of being cheap imitations and cashing in on the hard work of other people, but are we wrong about clones? Hidden within all the shameless copies and knockoffs, could there be some clones which actually improve the gaming medium, rather than take away from it?
Well, after one too many monster-infested dystopias where time is convoluted, backtracking is commonplace and no-one can agree on what a bonfire looks like, The Architect has discovered that our relationship with clones might be a little more complex than it appears. Whether they're refining existing experiences, catering to niche audiences or pushing beloved genres forward bit by bit - not only do clones do a lot of hard work behind the scenes, but many of our favorite titles may actually have started life as clones as well.
You Saw (brace yourself):
DOOM - 2016
Atomic Heart - 2023
Metroid Prime - 2002
Counter Strike Global Offensive
Wolfenstein: The New Order - 2012
Doom 1 - 1993
Maze War - 1974
Blood - 1997
Quake - 1996
Duke Nukem 3D - 1995
Super Noah's Ark 3D - 1994
Forbes Corperate Warrior - 1997
Black Mesa - 2020
MOON RPG Remix Adventure - 1997
24 Killers - 2023
The Binding of Isaac Rebirth - 2014
Hollow Knight - 2018
Hades - 2017
Final Fantasy 7 - 1997
Final Fantasy 7 Remake - 2020
Spellbreak - 2020
Marvel's Spider Man 2 - 2023
Shadow of Mordor: Shadow of War - 2017
Batman Arkham Knight - 2015
Angry Birds - 2012
Realm Royale - 2022
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - 1997
Galaxians - 1979
Resident Evil 4 Remake - 2023
Wario Land 4 - 2001
Wario Land:Shake It - 2008
Pizza Tower - 2023
Deep Rock Galactic - 2020
Back for Blood - 2021
Monster Train - 2020
Griftlands - 2021
Dark Souls - 2012
Nioh - 2017
Star Wars: Jedi Survivor - 2023
Lords of The Fallen - 2023
Remnant 2 - 2023
Lies of P - 2023
Bloodborne - 2015
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - 2019
Echo - 2017
Star Wars Battlefront 2 - 2017
Metal Gear Solid 4 - 2008
Nier Automata - 2017
Guacamelee - 2013
Calisto Protocol - 2022
Dead Space - 2008
Bioshock - 2007
Mario Kart 8 - 2014
Garfield Kart - 2013
Dead Cells - 2018
Wargroove - 2019
Advance Wars - 2001
Yooka Laylee - 2017
Banjo Kazooie - 1997
Genshin Impact - 2020
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - 2017
Shovel Knight - 2014
Gravity Circuit - 2023
Megaman X - 1993
Megaman 3 - 1990
The Looker - 2022
Holocure - Save the Fans - 2022
Vampire Survivors - 2022
Stardew Valley - 2016
Soulstone Survivors - Early Access
Coral Island - 2023
Signalis - 2022
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - 2004
Bug Fables - 2019
Chasm - 2018
Sundered - 2017
Super Metroid - 1994
Sea of Stars - 2023
Chrono Trigger - 1995
Chants of Sennar - 2023
Heaven's Vault - 2019
ULTRAKILL - Early Access
Desktop Dungeons Rewind - 2023
Slipways - 2022
Master of Orion 2
Enchanted Portals - 2023
Cuphead - 2017
Humankind - 2021
Sid Meir's Civilization 6 - 2016
Starbound - 2016
Terraria - 2011
XCOM 2 - 2016
Lamplighter's League - 2023
Warhammer 40,000: Mechanicus - 2018
Mutant Year Zero - 2018
Halo - 2001
System Shock 2 - 1999
Demoncrawl
Let's Revolution - 2023
Hunt: Showdown - 2018
Battle Brothers - 2021
Cities Skylines - 2015
Cities Skylines 2 - 2023
Sim City - 2013
Save Room - 2022
Disco Elysium - 2020
Planescape Torment - 1999
Panic Porcupine - 2022
Freedom Planet 2 - 2022
Defunct - 2016
Spark the Electric Jester 3 - 2022
Sonic Adventure 2 - 2001
Megaman 11 - 2018
Mighty Number 9 - 2016
Multiversus - 2022
Nickelodeon All Star Brawl 2 - 2023
Super Smash Bros Ultimate - 2018
Super Smash Bros Melee - 2001
Left 4 Dead 2 - 2009
Tunic - 2022
Oceanhorn 2 - 2019
Elden Ring - 2022
DUSK - 2018
Myth: Gods of Asgard - 2023
Lords of the Fallen - 2014
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora - 2023
Starfield - 2023
Hogwarts: Legacy - 2023
Far cry 6 - 2021
Dying Light 2 - 2022
Horizon: Zero Dawn - 2017
Redfall - 2023
Prey - 2017
Battlescape - 1980
Hovertank 3D - 1991
Kings Field
Demons Souls - 2019
Dark Souls 2 - 2014
Rogue - 1980
dnd - 1975
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 - 2022
Medal of Honor - 1999
World of Warcraft - 2004
Everquest - 1999
Slay The Spire - 2019
Dream Quest - 2014
Final Fantasy 14 - 2014
Before Your Eyes - 2021
Passpartout: The Starving Artist - 2017
Stray - 2022
Pseudoregalia - 2023

Игры

Опубликовано:

26 дек 2023

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Комментарии : 1,2 тыс.

@ArchitectofGames 6 месяцев назад

Support the channel on Patreon! A place where everyone is treated as a unique and special individual that I am individually thankful for! Especially you [INSERT PATRON NAME HERE]: www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames On the other hand, twitter is full of enough bots and bluechecks always saying the same thing that it may as well be full of clones: twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot

@mattapropism 6 месяцев назад

Hey that’s me!

@PainterVierax 6 месяцев назад

@@ITGuru42 This. And I never heard of Doom-clone at all, we used the term Doom-like to talk about FPS which is not the same meaning at all. Nowadays when we talk about clones, we don't talk about inspiration and evolution of a genre but copying the exact formula often without thinking about what makes the original a hit, hence why adjectives like soulless, bland or uninspired are associated with the term clone. This video failed to properly distinguish what is considered a clone and what isn't to the common folks.

@firebal6129 6 месяцев назад

Consider moving to Kofi instead!

@luckygreentiger 6 месяцев назад

Evolution, not revolution; iteration not repetition... just how life and art works...

@thereisnospace 6 месяцев назад

did you just say "20th century trivia from before i was born?" but like doom was like 10 years ago am i rite? its like not 30 years ago... **wilts in timelaps**

@destrorso2505 6 месяцев назад

The "Cloning" of video games is basically the evolution of genres and subgenres

@ArchitectofGames 6 месяцев назад

hmm the video would have been much shorter if I'd just said it like this - now I feel dumb

@Guardian-of-Light137 6 месяцев назад

@@ArchitectofGames Before I say anything. I respect your channel and will delete this comment if you have any problem with it just say the word. That being said. I'd like to direct everyone to sovietwomble's 3 part video essay on Day Z. As he goes into a brilliant analogy regarding how genere's and sub genere's come about. Primarily the survival game genere.

@MehnixIsThatGuy 6 месяцев назад

Humans really are just a Feature-Creeped Clone of Chimpanzees.

@powerofanime1 6 месяцев назад

@@ArchitectofGames Hey now, seeing the thought process is just as helpful as a simple maxim. Your format really helps me - an ignorant pleb who is eternally curious of the "how" and "why" of video game design - understand the ideas involved.

@dontstealmydiamondsv3156 6 месяцев назад

@@ArchitectofGames Before I say anything. I respect your channel and will delete this comment if you have any problem with it just say the word. That being said. I'd like to direct everyone to the Game Maker's Toolkit youtube channel for no real reason

@ionsilver557 6 месяцев назад

Simply put: when I find a game I really like, I don't want it to be the only one, I want to play more games like that.

@oneish7454 6 месяцев назад

Same, which is why for me, Blasphemous has been filling in the void that Castlevania left

@leithaziz2716 6 месяцев назад

Me personally, I want more Sekiro-clones. You get so many Souls-likes, it would be nice to see the other stuff being imitated. The Wukong game coming in the future, and Kannagi Usagi is the closest the fandom has gotten to more Sekiro. However, it should be mentioned that some games gain novelty and stay fresh by not having many games of its types. The worst case scenario is you get enough retreads of a formula that you get burnt out of it, hence the hard fatigue many people feel with Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty. Even when they're good, it can be hard to care. If you wanna look at films, the MCU destroyed itself by becoming extremely formulaic across all its different properties.

@jurtheorc8117 6 месяцев назад

Solidly concentrated sentence. It's why i try to spread the word on all manner of games as much that i like. From Clash: Artifacts of Chaos and Soulstice, to The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile + Charlie Murder and Cookie Cutter. I don't want to be annoying when i do so, but just spreading the word on games helps a lot in 1: helping the creators to hopefully do more cool stuff in the future and B: help *receiving* suggestions for cool things to play.

@RegalRoyalWasTaken 6 месяцев назад

Thymesia is a little Sekiro-like, ya might like it.@@leithaziz2716

@ryszakowy 6 месяцев назад

yeah but not like call of duty was ruined or dead space we want the good ones not crap

@notarabbit1752 6 месяцев назад

I remember a game dev I follow on twitter talking about what a shame it was that Shadow of Mordor patented its rivals mechanic. They described games as an "ongoing conversation." The patent essentially stops the idea in its tracks because no one else can bounce the idea around and add to it.

@CrashSable 6 месяцев назад

The patent was always pretty easy to get around. WB only have a leg to stand on in court if your shameless rip-off LOOKS like Shadow of Mordor (i.e. it has a screen that displays the rivals in a hierarchy). Don't include that screen, but keep all the other mechanics that made it fun to begin with and you could do what you want. Even if they tried to sue you, all you'd have to say is "I gave my enemies randomly generated traits... other games did that long before yours did, bro"

@TwilightFlower9 6 месяцев назад

@@CrashSable Not really. WB has more money for lawyers than you do. Even if they're legally in the wrong, you won't be able to afford your lawyer long enough for that to matter.

@greyrifterrellik5837 6 месяцев назад

@@TwilightFlower9Depends how solid your case is. If the law is in your favor enough, then NO amount of lawyer money can get them out of it, as you're just guaranteed to win if it gets to court.

@DreadKyller 6 месяцев назад

@@greyrifterrellik5837 Their point is that companies with lots of money can afford to delay proceedings almost indefinitely and absorb the costs associated with doing so, and cause the other party to run out of money before the trial even begins. Large companies are notorious for using every trick they can to prolong proceedings to make the legal process cost too much for smaller companies to handle, usually ending up in a settlement at worst.

@greyrifterrellik5837 6 месяцев назад

@@DreadKyller While it'd be stupid in most situations, I would assume there eventually reaches a point where it's so utterly one-sided of a case that you don't even *need* to hire a lawyer in order to win. Granted anything short of 100% guaranteed victory means you should definitely get a lawyer, but my point was that no amount of money can make a company *completely* invincible.

@Salari 6 месяцев назад

Petition to rename the Soulslike genre to "rolly-rolly-slash-slash"

@TheOrian34 6 месяцев назад

And roguelikes "die and retry"

@DatRandomInternetDude 5 месяцев назад

@@TheOrian34infinite purgatory

@someguyontheinternet9637 5 месяцев назад

Too long. Just call them "Rollers". @@DatRandomInternetDude

@meeese6_ 5 месяцев назад

i-frame rollers

@notproductiveproductions3504 5 месяцев назад

Weave N Slash

@epicgamerzfail4575 6 месяцев назад

This is why patents for games is such a destructive idea. Patenting mechanics or features in terms kills games from "cloning" you without getting into legal ramifications, which in terms stifles overall creativity and innovation as people aren't allowed to innovate on existing ideas.

@QueueWithACapitalQ 6 месяцев назад

Exactly, genras wouldnt exist ans anything within it would be patented by the first mega corp to do so

@TuffMelon 6 месяцев назад

*Stares at the Nemesis system*

@sahilrahman5066 6 месяцев назад

@@TuffMelon i was just about to mention that fucking piece of shit

@scary5455 6 месяцев назад

welcome to the music industry

@MerlinTheCommenter 6 месяцев назад

They shouldn’t even be possible. I’m TTRPGs it’s actually not legal to patent rules, because that’s how US law works: you can’t trademark or copyright rules, just how something is written word for word. So you could say “this gun kills this enemy” and I could copy you by saying “this baseball bat puts this goon to sleep” if that makes sense to you.

@ConeybearLeaf 6 месяцев назад

Yooka Laylee is interesting because the games serve as examples of both bad clones and good clones. As shown in the video, the first Yooka Laylee is basically just a copy of Banjo Kazooie that does nothing to distinguish itself or iterate on the formula. However, Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair, the sequel, goes in a completely different direction. This game is instead a clone of the Donkey Kong Country games, but this time around, it seems like they learned their lesson and actually gave it its own identity. They kept the great platforming and gorgeous environments of the DKC games, but it does a lot to iterate and even improve on them. For example, the overworld map is probably one of the best overworlds I've ever seen in a platformer, and the way you can manipulate it to discover alternate levels is quite smart. Not to mention the fact that you're able to play the final level from the start of the game, it's just very difficult without completing the other ones. The game has proven to me that the devs are capable of innovation, and not just pure nostalgia bait, so I'm looking forward to seeing what else they make in the future.

@ArchitectofGames 6 месяцев назад

agreed! the impossible lair is surprisingly great - I really should've thought to mention it in the vid actually!

@bastian1870 6 месяцев назад

Watching this video and reading this comment while coming to the end of yooka laylee impossible lair. Completely agree about the innovation, I knew I was walking into something to scratch the dk country-like but the overworld was so enjoyable and I was pleasantly surprised.

@jgunner280 6 месяцев назад

I need to still play Impossible Lair. But the first entry really set me up for bad expectations. Its almost painful to even hear that its "too close" from the video. No its really not, I'm convinced they didn't fully get the point of even marketing back to one of their golden games. They tie your momentum down with a bar in a 3D platformer FFS, as if they came from an alternative universe where we all loved a M64 where Mario had to catch his breath after two long consecutive long jumps, or Spyro lost his charge every 5 seconds. Then used a handful of level remixes to compare itself with games that ran off a basis of a large variety, and aesthetic charm. I'm not expecting a small team to do 30 levels and 8 different collectible formats, but come on, 4 that give me "a twist" and some bogged down heavy with constrictive minigames? Okay, but at least the experience was really tight and refined... right? Right!? Eh, we know how that ended. On the other end, I adored Hat In Time, because even as a smaller entity that relied on remixed level, the way it drove variety and genuinely wanted you to move and play with its levels, was a blast. I still loved things in Yooka-laylee, and it had some of its heart and charm design on the right notes, but dang the final execution just felt so wrong in so many ways. Impossible Lair I've heard nothing but good things about, and probably owe it a chance though.

@MegaDeox 6 месяцев назад

I love Yooka Laylee and don't like Impossible Lair and no one can change my mind

@JBravoEcho09 6 месяцев назад

I also think that Yooka Laylee also copied the worst elements of the genre (overcollecting, extremely large worlds). What was nice about Banjo that wasn't replicated across the sequel and DK 64 is that the level size was just right and didnt feel repetitive. The frustration I felt with Y-L is that the first world alone felt way too big. Why is everything so spread out? Why is there so much to do? I want to move on to the next biome; please let me leave. B-K worlds usually didn't overstay their welcome and the challenges were situated next to one another so that you could dive immediately into another challenge. This is something that I felt A Hat In Time understood.

@tarnishedhunter222 6 месяцев назад

Sometimes triple A developers abandon the wrong mechanics and clones can flesh them out and create a variety that’s just right

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

that too. look at nintendo. sometimes we just want a sequel to metroid/zelda/mario, and instead nintendo always has to do something new and changes the formula to never be the same. So some indie dev who has the same idea and sees that there are a lot of people with similar opinions and so a market for it creates something inspired by it and fills the need for a sequel we've been waiting for 10+ years.

@LimeyLassen 6 месяцев назад

It's kinda like big studios and small studios have a symbiotic relationship. The little guys experiment with new mechanics and genres, and the big guys experiment with new technologies and engines.

@timaidley7801 6 месяцев назад

"So why am I talking about this weird piece of 20th century trivia from before I was born?" *withers and dies*

@raulperez375 6 месяцев назад

nooo too real 😭

@Andrew.Downing 6 месяцев назад

I would say Lies of P's gimmick to differentiate from souls games was a more apparent emphasis on story.

@luketfer 6 месяцев назад

This, Lies of P is VERY straightforward about it's story, the only thing a NG+ feature allows is that P (or rather the player) now understands what the other puppets are saying during the fights.

@maxentirunos 6 месяцев назад

Which is also why it is way more linear compared to a Fromsoft, with no place where you can shortcut one or multiple zones. There is also way more gameplay options than compared to other FS souls games (others than Elden Ring). Also people saying that since it got a parrying mecanic, that make it a sekiro clone in gameplay despite having said parry mechanic working completely differently.

@Digger-Nick 6 месяцев назад

Fromsoft could learn a thing or two about storytelling

@brianpearson8552 5 месяцев назад

@@Digger-Nick What the hell mate? Are you nutts, they are incrediable story tellers. They just like to make the story something you find and figure out for yourself where as lies of P took the traditional approach and focused on the story. (Fromsoft's Storytelling breeds a massive community of people that love to solve their stories so its also great for engagement.)

@Digger-Nick 5 месяцев назад

@@brianpearson8552 Fromsoft has 0 storytelling capability my guy. Sekiro is their ONLY game that actually tells a story and it's just decent. Look at elden ring, attaching random and out of order sticky notes across the entire world and having a paragraph of text etched into every single item in the game is not "storytelling" lmao. Outer Wilds would like a word... The game doesn't even have a journal to track quest information or lore you discovered. Fromsoft is too lazy and why even bother when their braindead drone fans will always go out of their way to defend them no matter what anyways right?

@SagarKowe 6 месяцев назад

Remnant gets dunked on so much but I thoroughly enjoyed it and really want to point out some of the key things they did very right. 1. Weapon mods system. Basically what Elden Ring's ashes of war system is. All non-unique guns can take mods that change its skill attack. This was implemented in the first game itself, and I always wished something similar would come to a mainstram souls game and it did! 2. Seamless co-op. The co-op in Remnant is extremely well refined. Playing this game with a friend or friends is AMAZING. I could breeze through areas without anything memorable happening solo but with friends it was an extremely fun and memorable experience. Especially the mechanic where you can use one of your dragon hearts (this game's estus flask) to revive a teammate. I was hoping this would be default in Elden Ring, and was disappointed when I found out it wasnt. Cheers to the developer of the seamless co-op mod though, they single handedly brought this experience to Elden Ring. 3. Static armour weight capacity. In most souls games, it takes investment into a certain stat to let you dodge swiftly with heavy equipment. But as a downside, one can dump points into that stat and roll around in the heaviest armour in game, basically giving them a huge advantage in trading hits. In Remnant, you can't really increase your equip load without either sacrificing a very precious accessory slot or investing points in a perk although even with both of them, you can only do at best fat rolls in the heaviest armours in the game (as opposed to not being able to roll at all). Although the armour significantly increases your defense, it does take away a lot in return when gave weight (lol) to the decision of wearing it. 4. Alternative ways of playing .There's a ring that disables the generic flask based healing and instead gives you a short health regen when you perfectly dodge an attack (when you i-frame through it). Inspite of being a shooter, the melee mechanics were extremely satisfying and every weapon felt like it had a place. The most basic pistol or sword could still carry you in the late-game no problem. This game was honestly the most fun I've had with friends outside of Divinity Original Sin and Elden Ring seamless co-op, and everything I've mentioned was all there in the first game. I havent played the second game so far but me and my buddies have high hopes for it when we do find the time.

@PedricCuf 5 месяцев назад

Fully agree with you. I can see why people might bounce off of Remnant, but it's an excellent co-op game, and it's a semi looter-shooter that respects the player and doesn't yank them around with subscriptions, microtransactions, and other junk. It's just a good game that wants you to have a good time. I played it through with my girlfriend, and we enjoyed it immensely.

@justinsinke2088 6 месяцев назад

Inspiration is like the term I hear in TTRPGs of the of "Yes, and..." where you take what's already presented and instead of dismissing it, add to it. That addition, and understanding of what's going on, separates something that's "inspired by" from something that's simply "a copy of". A bad clone is often one that takes the surface level impression of why something is successful, and simply mimics it without understanding why people actually like it, often in ways that actively harm the core concept, the whole "just file off the serial number and nobody will notice it's just the same thing but repackaged" thing. Inspiration and iteration is a matter of "I like this, I want more of it, what can I do with it?", and too many people fail to properly take into consideration that last part.

@jurtheorc8117 6 месяцев назад

Good way of thinking. Positive and productive instead of looking down upon something and talking about looking down upon it, or not doing anything with it.

@Lishtenbird 6 месяцев назад

And this superficial cloning happens in all media - especially competitive ones, like anime. For example, all those "magical girl show, but dark and violent" copies that had no idea what made Madoka Magica so impactful, and kept copying and amplifying random parts of it. Unfortunately, some of these also get popular enough, because a part of the audience - similarly - is too young and doesn't have enough experience to understand what made them great either, but want "more", so will still be satisfied with a worse imitation without the actual "and...".

@luketfer 6 месяцев назад

However there is also a time when DMing that the words need to be "No, but..." and simply "No" otherwise you campaign ends up being a complete fucking mess OR you end up in situations where something goes awry because of one asshole at the table or because you, as the DM, have hard set boundaries within your world. "Ok so this is a Dwarf only campaign so I need everyone to make a Dwarf" "Oh but I want to be an Elf!" "No, that's not the point of this campaign, you can be a Dwarf who is an abassador to the Elves but you can't play an Elf" "oh but I really wanted to be an Elf" "Well I'm sorry that doesn't fit and everybody else is onboard with this, if you want you can step out for this campaign and come back when we finish it or you can make a Dwarf".

@justinsinke2088 6 месяцев назад

@@luketfer You're kinda missing the point here. I wasn't speaking for the whole of TTRPGs because this wasn't a video about TTRPGs. I was using that piece of GM advice for comparison because the sentiment of "take what's been given and roll with it" is a healthier mindset in regards to video game clones because "it's like this familiar thing, so it's unoriginal and therefore bad" is a bad mental blanket statement to have.

@TheRiptideRaptor 6 месяцев назад

I know it from improv, and have heard some people with improv talk about it in the context of TTRPGs, but it's interesting to see how far it's spread to be mentioned like this.

@akirachisaka9997 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, I always felt that if a game's legacy can simply die off just because of clones, then the legacy probably isn't that worth it anyway. Especially Lies of P, it was like "when mom says we have Bloodborne at home, and after begrudgingly going home to try it out, mom's actually got a point".

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

if people remember a game that was inspired/a clone of another game more than the original than they did something right. Nobody remember infiniminer. Everyone remembers minecraft. NES Mario wasn't the original side scroller platform, but it blew so many other ones before it out of the water that its kind of the origin point that everyone remembers. Super metroid didn't invent back tracking world map because you got new abilities that allowed you to reach new areas, but it took several ideas from the previous metroid and other games with exploration and new abilities that allowed progress and mashed them together to make a masterpiece. Symphony of the night was really just super metroid with voice acting and some RPG style stat additions, but everyone loves that so much they've named the genre after the game that started it and one of its best clones.

@iCarus_A 6 месяцев назад

@@Zectifinthis is why i hate copyrighting game mechanics so much -- the game that pioneers a certain mechanic is almost never the game that does it best

@akirachisaka9997 6 месяцев назад

@@iCarus_A Exactly! Especially when it's a game mechanic that's vague and a shower thought, like "trading card game" or "procedurally generated villains". Games usually aren't good because they have those premises, but because they can execute them well.

@Lagrangeify 6 месяцев назад

@@akirachisaka9997 Great points. It's an ugly business, trying to patent concepts when the fact is that everything that has ever occurred, however innovative it seems in the present moment, however well it's executed, didn't just erupt spontaneously. There's always a precursor. Turtles all the way down.

@N4m3lesS_1 5 месяцев назад

In this Special Case (and certainly in some others too) i could not play bloodborne because i only have a PC. I watched Lets Plays of it, sure, but that does not make you feel how the game really is like, so Lies of P felt rather fresh to me. It reminded me more of DS1 but "better", or the best parts of it. For me the world was new, the weapon system and the Legion Arm and Quarz Abilities were also something new (maybe i lived in a bubble but hey, something reached me ;) ). I am not sure if i would have played Bloodborne because of how brutally hard it seemed compared to Dark Souls (no blocks, no magic), and i never intend on playing Sekiro, i know my Limits ;) But i also think cloning is good because just some little twists in the Setting or how the cobat works or how forgiving the game is speaks to another audience that might give more titles of that specific genre a chance or opens up the idea of trying something new once in a while. I really enjoyed playing Ender Lilies. The Design, the Music the World, just beautiful. And to me it felt like "just hard enough". So keep on recycling even old ideas! *thumbs up*

@commuistpord3846 6 месяцев назад

12:08 I feel like saying that starbound failed due to being a terraria clone stretched across multiple planets is a bit of a stretch. During the beta, starbound was actually an amazing game, and that magic can still be recreated today with mods or backporting, and as someone who played terraria first, once i got those mods, i actually ended up putting more time into starbound than terraria. Where starbound truly failed was with its developers, Chucklefish studios. Chucklefish was an absolutely AWFUL company, hiring minors for "exposure" instead of money, "forgetting" to pay their full time employees, and just being an all around terrible place, which lead to the creative death of starbound in the 1.0 update where they shoehorned in a shitty ass story and thought it would make their game better and get them more money.

@sarraceniaporrot 6 месяцев назад

Agreed, starbound could’ve been a GREAT clone! But chucklefish ruined it in so so so many ways. Thanks to modding, I honestly do prefer starbound over terraria even today… if only because starbound is so easy to mod, and as a result has more building materials. I just like to make giant superstructures in it, and the plethora of race mods make that very possible! I liked exploring the different planets, but because of chucklefish’s horrible practices that were anti-employee and also anti-*player*, the game crashed and burned. It sucks :(

@PainterVierax 6 месяцев назад

there are a lot of dubious takes in this video essay

@vizthex 6 месяцев назад

i bought starbound because it was terraria in space and am still disappointed with the massive pivot the 1.0 launch pulled.

@zooker7938 6 месяцев назад

I really love the concept of Starbound, and its soundtrack is incredible, but I just can't get through it. The story is so boring, and the planet variety leaves a lot to be desired.

@vizthex 6 месяцев назад

@@zooker7938 exactly. They didn't iterate and build enough upon what makes terraria amazing to really stand out - even in early access - so it just fell to the wayside alongside everything else.

@DrWickermoon 6 месяцев назад

Interestingly enough, in my part of Germany, we never called them Doom clones. I'm pretty certain we simply called them Ego-Shooters (it's a German thing), even in 94. So it's wild for me that the English speaking sphere called them "doom clones".

@SaxoraMcOhn 4 месяца назад

Das liegt daran das Doom und Doom 2 bei uns bis 2011 auf dem Index waren.

@icedragon769 6 месяцев назад

Here's an interesting alternative perspective on Jedi Survivor in particular: When I played Sekiro, I distinctly remember texting my friends "somebody has to make a star wars game with this combat system". The focus on parrying and 1-hit kills makes the Sekiro formula PERFECT for modeling lightsaber battles, and I must not have been the only one who thought so because Jedi Fallen Order went into production almost immediately after Sekiro's release and delivered expertly on the concept, with some reasonable adjustments in the name of playability to accomodate Star Wars's large audience. So while it's true that it's a pretty faithful clone and does not do much to distinguish itself from its inspiration, instead of viewing that as "game copying popular game" there's another perfectly valid interpretation of "popular game found a formula that would have been used for this setting all along had it been discovered sooner". Like, I would be SHOCKED if any future Star Wars jedi-focused game comes out that don't rely almost exclusively on the Sekiro formula, at least for combat. If the Sekiro formula had been discovered sooner, I am dead certain that Jedi Knight, Force Unleashed, Knights of the Old Republic, and maybe even Lego Star Wars would have been using it. I can absolutely see a future where in a decade or so we stop calling this style of games "sekiro clones" and instead call them "lightsaber games".

@terrabits 6 месяцев назад

Indeed, that could be a interesting evolution, having more " intense duels fights" than Fallen Order had (I didn't play Survivor). Would be interesting to see if they could try more varied force habilities too, something like the powers in Control. But, if they keep the Fallen Order formula, making the platforming less finicky would help a lot.

@banderas1879 5 месяцев назад

Crazy how this video came out less than a month before palworld absolutely smashed into the gaming scene

@alanamarko 4 месяца назад

difference palworld is one of the bad clones that isn't adding anything new or interesting to the things its shamelessly copying. it's just a shitty grindy survival craft game that's sort of pokemon and sort of breath of the wild but worse in all aspects.

@matteste 6 месяцев назад

Ok, as a Swede, I could'nt help but chuckle when you used Gävlebocken as a stand-in for a bonfire. (And its a little bit ironic given that it managed to stay unlit this year)

@AnotherDuck 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, that was a hit-n-burn.

@kelmirosue3251 6 месяцев назад

I personally LOVE the Remnant game as they're good games in their own respect. And I personally do think that between R1 and R2, the boss designs of R2 as well as exploration and build customization are significantly better then that of R1 while also keeping what made me like R1 in the first place. And their latest DLC was made with the players feedback of how much they liked the linearity but still exploratory nature of the Marrow start for Losomn, but bigger and more interesting to explore. I do definitely think the devs have a good formula and since its their second game of 8 devs (and 40+ artists) they did an incredible job. Are there areas to improve? Ofc and they're working tirelessly to improve the game and taking feedback. Hell a feedback I made one time for the challenger archetype was to make the intimidating presence 15 meters instead of 10 so more weapon variety can be used with the archetype and it got added. So I do believe the devs absolutely have the capabilities of making an award winning game, they just need the time and practice to do so

@justinpennington6680 6 месяцев назад

I agree and imo calling it a clone is a stretch. It borrows mechanics from many different games and is it’s own beast in itself. Not a cover shooter, not a souls game, if anything it’s more like a looter shooter if anything. If it came out before souls we’d be calling games “remnant-like”

@chrisdaman4179 6 месяцев назад

Remnant 2 bosses are entirely based on limiting player mobility and not boss strength. Most of the remnant 2 bosses were significant steps backwards design wise. The game is a decent sequel, but the bosses felt like the weakest part of the game.

@justinpennington6680 6 месяцев назад

@@chrisdaman4179 I’m just now about to beat 1. Was gonna play 2 afterwards, that makes me sad. Do they still spam extra enemies outside the boss?

@chrisdaman4179 6 месяцев назад

@@justinpennington6680 yeah, you still get tons of endless ads in some fights. There are decent ways to midigate it, but some bosses get very frustrating. For me it was needlessly limiting the arena to small confined spaces. A huge boss, ape rapid attacks, AND no where to move gets very frustrating. I still think 2 is worth playing though.

@justinpennington6680 6 месяцев назад

@@chrisdaman4179 I’m sure it’s good thanks for the input I don’t mind ads if done well, but sometimes it takes away from the boss itself imo thanks

@Mornings 6 месяцев назад

Agreed. Once you have played games enough you end up with specific tastes and preferences which can only be adhered to with "clones". If your mom made tacos that tasted just like your fav restaurant you wouldnt say "aw this is just a clone mom Im not eating this" lmao nah you'd enjoy it!

@magicfroggi 6 месяцев назад

I cackled out loud at the "come on mom, this is just a clone" lmao

@jurtheorc8117 6 месяцев назад

@@magicfroggi Now i'm imagining a Star Wars clone trooper in a taco shell.

@jarlwhiterun7478 6 месяцев назад

I like eating your mom's taco

@meikahidenori 6 месяцев назад

This, especially with simulation/godlike games. There's so few when a clone does turn up everyone jumps on it, tears it fown until the game falls apart from being something it never was going to be to start with. It's why things like the sims & sim city have love/hate relationships with it's fan base - even between editions. When a game that does anything close pops up the fans flock over and end up stifling them from growing into their own thing by demanding them to be the exact same thing they left behind but better (and sometimes that's just impossible) To be honest it's why I haven't touched Balders gate 3. I would love another one of those games, but I'm so over it being set in the Forgotten Realms. But I dunno if making it closer to Planescape Torment would be an any better - probably make it still very the same regardless of the universe it's set. I'd love something to shake up this style of game as I enjoy it but yeah... it's not an easy one to do.

@norrecvizharan1177 6 месяцев назад

Bro, imagine clone troopers, but they have taco bell colors/paints on their armor. And they're going up against mcdonalds themed droids.@@jurtheorc8117

@winterweasel425 6 месяцев назад

I think something which might be an important thing to think about is also that a lot of these more modern clones might end up being played by people who never played their inspirations. For example, Pillars of eternity obviously and knowingly takes a lot of it's gameplay from old isometric CRPG's from the late 90's/early 2000's, but I'd never actually played any of those beofre I played pillars, so I didn't have any reference point or nostalgia beyond pillars itself. The reason I got interested in those older games was BECAUSE I played a more modern 'clone', and I'd be surprised if I was the only person with a similar experience.

@jurtheorc8117 6 месяцев назад

This is a very solid take. Where it concerns for example the Character Action or Hack-and-Slash genre, i first properly came into contact with it through the Darksiders series. They're an amalgamation of influences between each game so far: Stuff like tone being akin to Legacy of Kain, combat close to DmC, gnarly art direction like World of Warcraft, dungeons like Legend of Zelda, and short segments of third-person shooting like Gears of War. The second one had hints of Prince of Persia in the platforming and a big fantasy RPG/Diablo with the loot. Up to that point, i had never played or rarely looked into (or in some cases, barely even heard of) : - The likes of Legacy of Kain - Prince of Persia - Devil May Cry - Legend of Zelda. And i fupping loved it. The series' fate hung in the balance for a while after THQ went belly-up. A third Darksiders that released somewhere in... 2018? went a more Souls-like way for combat, and had a more Metroidvania structure than a Zelda-like level structure. Which was pretty divisive (to say the least). So the devs later added an option to make it feel more like the first two games. It's not an in-depth overhaul, but it showed willingness to listen. So did the Keepers of the Void DLC, which from what i've heard feel like proper dungeons with puzzles and ways to use the weapons/powers for puzzles. And Darksiders Genesis, a prequel, went an isometric view and option for co-op while also adding a choosable level structure from a hub level. The Darksiders' series identity seems like a pretty fluid and ever-changing one, but there is something nigh intangible that can still be called Darksiders that brings it all together when done well. And the hack-and-slash/character action combat + puzzles will always be part of that. The other games that Darksiders takes inspiration from may have nearly perfected a lot of stuff or done them more in-depth. Like 2's parkour traversal compared to Prince of Persia, or 1's entire combat system compared to DMC and GoW, solid as it is. And sometimes puzzle objects and dungeons compared to Legend of Zelda as a whole. But i'm of firm belief that a game company should be allowed and encouraged to properly make its own journey as well. To clarify a bit what I mean: A team doesn't immediately have the history of learning that for example Nintendo has under its belt, with all the successes, mistakes, developments and relationships between people that it required to make the game(s). If i had to put my thoughts in a more concise way, it may have to be like this. Darksiders gave me an experience only Darksiders can give. And I want to look at it for being the way it is. Whenever I may get bored playing Darksiders 1, as much as i love it, it's not because it's *not* like God of War or Zelda or DMC in that moment. I may have played it for a bit too long, the section wasn't as well designed as it could have been, or something else. Or perhaps it's something as cynically viewed as the gameplay loop of the moment not being as fun as i remember, or just something as fleeting as the gameplay being at a lower point in the moment. And the inverse is also true. That can be viewed from a critical lens at the gameplay as a whole, of course. But from that critical lens still, expressed subjectively or in an attempt at being objective, i'd still want to view it from being *Darksiders*.

@leithaziz2716 6 месяцев назад

So weirdly enough, I was introduced to the classic God of War games before I got into DMC much later. I don't think it really matters nowadays as I found appreciation for both series (the GoW games have usually have better level design and puzzles/exploration while DMC has one of the most in-depth combat systems I know. Having Vergil is also a big plus for your series, but I digress).

@typemasters2871 6 месяцев назад

I never played Paper Mario TTYD (looking forward to the remake) I had heard about Bug Fables and how it’s “Classic Paper Mario” So I bought Bug Fables, played Bug Fables, enjoyed Bug Fables, and at the end I went “I FINALLY understand the hype behind classic Paper Mario”

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

exactly. I grew up playing DOS Xcom. I don't like the remakes as much, but I'm glad theres a new generation of turn based tactics fans and XCOM pretty much revived the subgenre and we have a bunch of games that are copying the XCOM remakes or trying to purposely throw back to the originals. More is always good in my book.

@levilukeskytrekker 6 месяцев назад

I was actually gonna comment this! Only, I was also going to mention that accessibility to older titles (whether because of copyright, a lack of porting, accessibility in the medical sense, or the seldom-mentioned but widely prevalent reality of economic constraints) can also mean younger generations cannot play them at all. Just as one example, I have seizures, so a wide breadth of older games that have flashy hit confirmation effects, in the style of old arcade games, are essentially off the table for me. Most often, though, I find it's just impossible-or very difficult-to get my hands on old titles without pursuing emulation as a hobby (and having the associated free time). It's obviously not a new observation, but you can't pick up an old game the way you can pick up an old book-specialized hardware or software (usually both) is required in combination with a lot of available time to tinker. Sometimes, too, there simply is a lack of interest in older titles-I love Stardew Valley, but I have yet to see anything of Harvest Moon that makes me feel there's something specific for me personally to go back for (also, I've tried to play Doom, and I very much recognize its influence and appreciate its lack of hitscan enemies, but I still can't pretend to like it or be impressed by it in the way, say, I love classic Mario. At the tender age of 22, I also feel the same apathy towards Call of Duty, although I'm less clear how Call of Duty propelled its own genre forward). I definitely want to dig deeper into Metroidvanias because of Hollow Knight, though.

@Hobocannibal 6 месяцев назад

Wargroove is an odd one to include, because it made some significant improvements over advance wars to cement it being more than just a clone and to show it improved on the formula. The biggest change being the introduction of the commander unit. They all have the same stats as each other. But your groove (CO power) varies between them, all focused from the unit itself, which helps make it clear what each commander is capable of easily. As opposed to Advance wars map-wide stat buffs that affect different units in different ways. this unit also being a victory/defeat condition if killed and its great cost efficiency (with low resupply cost and self-regen) to be used in combat leads to a great risk/reward, that also serves to speed up competitive games. Allowing multiple objectives and therefore fronts to arise. With turnarounds possible if you neglect to guard your headquarters or commander appropriately. That plus the map design on PvP maps learns from the mistakes of advance wars. Where in AW, a "lost" game can take ages to come to a natural conclusion. because the HQs were placed so far back in the map, with production in front, that you could win and still take a long time to end the game. Wargroove maps put the HQ forwards with production behind. Which leads to much faster games and potential surprise victories. Not to meantion every unit having a unique 'crit' condition to use to your advantage and the masses of custom content and scripting created by the community. It felt like the game was brushed over as being a clone without ever bringing up how it improved on the source material.

@ivy.t.t 6 месяцев назад

I feel the stance on the Jedi series was pretty unfair. Yes, combat definitely draws upon souls (but is unique thanks to the force powers, thank you). However, the game defines itself upon its much more successful synthesis of that with Metroidvania mechanics. You actually get new unique abilities throughout the game in a fun way, and exploration is BETTER than exploration in most souls games, imo.

@gunnarschlichting9886 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, some weird takes in the examples he used. It felt like he was so focused on comparing them to other Souls-likes that he failed to see other sources of inspiration and where they differed (speaking more about Remnant 2 and Jedi here). The reason he seemed to like Lies of P so much is because it's a good Souls-like, whereas he didn't like the others because he wanted them to be more Souls-like as opposed to also Metroidvania-y or 3rd person fps co-op-y.

@RealHero101111 6 месяцев назад

i barely see Jedi Survivor as soulslike at all.

@gunnarschlichting9886 6 месяцев назад

@@RealHero101111 Combat is similar just no stamina, death system is similar, level up system is similar but with abilities instead of stats. It's exploration is more Metroidvania and it's story is a more traditional narrative, but the combat bones are there and the lineage clear. It's more accurate to say it has Souls-like combat rather than Souls-like in general though, I'll give you that. The comparison is legitimate, just overexaggerated and ignores other equally strong inspirations/influences.

@RealHero101111 6 месяцев назад

@@gunnarschlichting9886 i mostly think respawn checkpoints and shortcuts, but everything else feel just outside of it. it more reminds me prince of persia than souls.

@Kyronea 6 месяцев назад

I knew the premise of this going in because I *remember* when Doom first came out, and the way everyone was constantly calling FPSes Doom Clones. There were people still using that term as late as 2002 or 2003 in some gaming articles, albeit mostly ones that were out of touch with the way gaming was rapidly changing at the time. Almost any art form will take inspiration from previous works, and if something works, it's going to be repeated in some form. Whole genres of video games exist because of codifiers for that genre, and imitate it because they made it work and work well. A game imitating other games does not by default make it bad or good; it's what they do with it and how they alter things that can make a huge difference. Sometimes even a few seemingly minor changes can completely and utterly change how much enjoyment one can get out of a game's systems. Take for example the leveling system of Final Fantasy 2 versus the original Final Fantasy, or for a more modern comparison, the way that Fallout: New Vegas uses engaging writing and well-placed world design to take Fallout 3's boring, stale gameplay and make it thoroughly enjoyable for 60+ hours. Or any number of other improvements/changes other types of games make. Clones are not bad, and sometimes, if what you want is more of what you've already thoroughly enjoyed, it can be fantastic to see a clone that gives you a fresh way to experience something you already enjoyed and loved. Or give something you liked a little bit but weren't sure about another shot.

@jurtheorc8117 6 месяцев назад

For me, examples of what you talk about in terms of codifiers for entire genres, come to mind with Devil May Cry and God of War. Definers of the Character Action or Hack-and-Slash genre (there's debate over the correct term) that got fairly popular around the mid-2000s and developed pretty popularly up until the early 2010s. There have been a number of games in the same genre, from the Darksiders and Bayonetta series to Dante's Inferno and Sonic Unleashed (at least partially) From X-Men: Wolverine to Van Helsing, from Ghost Rider to Heavenly Sword. Of course there were similar games from around that time and before, such as Rygar: The Legendary Adventure and Shinobi, and famously God Hand (i'd say that may count within the genre) but DMC and GoW were the real household names that, for all their differences in gameplay and tone, were used as a golden standard. In the 2010s, especially late 2010s, these 3D titles are quite a bit rarer. And I assume that's also in part because of looking upon "clones" (or sometimes knock-offs or rip-offs) in a negative way, as well as changing attitudes of the time that i won't get into because i'm not NEARLY qualified to speak on that. (I assume industry focus on Souls-type games and cinematic experiences have had their influence on this as well) To my knowledge most *new* games in that genre from the early 2010s, were developed from already established series: Aforementioned Darksiders (Darksiders 2, and Darksiders 3 finally got released around 2018 or something), Bayonetta 2, DMC4 and DmC: Devil May Cry, a series genre outlier in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, and in terms of original ones, there was your odd Assault Spy, NieR: Automata and Astral Chain. But most of those titles (MGR: Revengance, Bayonetta 1 and 2, NieR: Automata in gameplay, and Astral Chain) came from a single studio (Platinum Games) that is *known* for its efforts within the Character Action Genre. Which is a studio that had to fight to remain in business, if i'm not mistaken. And thanks to among other things the love from their fans has allowed to do so. The only real *new* 3D Character Action/Hack-and-Slash game from the time was Assault Spy. And that went under the radar big time. (I can't speak about 2D ones, i only know of The Dishwasher: Vampire Smile). I'm glad to see that things are picking up again a bit in the Character Action or Hack-and-Slash genre in recent years. And i'm not talking about the big titles like DMC5, even though that must have left behind a big positive impact as it has done years before. Or Bayonetta 3 and the norse God of War, for all their divisive factors. I am talking for example personal favourite Soulstice from late 2022, Hi-Fi Rush from early this year which came out of nowhere with an absolute BANG (and i want to give mention to music action game colleague No Straight Roads which released a few years earlier), and the upcoming Enenra and Genokids. (And mention to Clash: Artifacts of Chaos as well, for seemingly sharing some God Hand DNA) Two of these games, Soulstice and Hi-Fi Rush, are from fairly sizeable studios and both ambitious projects in their own right, whereas Enenra and Genokids seem to be made by smaller teams. Reply Game Studios have even cited wanting to become like a "European Platinum Games". And if anything, i'm just glad that love is being given back to the genre by the smaller guys to help reinvigorate it. Big comment, understandable if whoever reads it didn't read through ALL of it, and there is great possibility i have made errors and mistakes in recalling and assuming things. If one did read through it all, I hope it has proved interesting, that it has brought a lot of cool titles both old and new to your attention, and I wish you a good rest of your day. Have a good one and take care as well as a cookie when nobody's looking.

@shaman9 6 месяцев назад

I'm reminded of George' Carlin's routine on how every ball sport is a clone of ping pong. Volleyball, for example, is racketless team ping pong played with an elevated net while standing on the table.

@musicexams5258 6 месяцев назад

What did he say about baseball

@Xick 6 месяцев назад

@@musicexams5258 I haven't seen the bit, but that's an easy one: It's ping pong where the player on one side hits the ball too hard every time and everyone else in the room has to chase it down before it rolls under a couch.

@notproductiveproductions3504 4 месяца назад

Ping pong came *after* tennis tho

@highlord2841 6 месяцев назад

Bro, I hate how all games are Tennis for 2 clones

@ArchitectofGames 6 месяцев назад

smh everything started going downhill after that cheap knockoff pong came out

@jimijenkins2548 6 месяцев назад

All my homies love Tennis for Two.

@FannonValentine 6 месяцев назад

Hey there! I'm Fannon, long time fan of the channel. Remnant II was actually my first studio release as a designer, so seeing the hunter armor in the thumbnail was a real trip hahah. Hope you enjoyed your time with the game and thanks for playing!

@GameDevYal 5 месяцев назад

Remnant 2 is such a massive improvement to the first game, good job! (As an ex-Ikea employee I can't get over the anachronistic forklift pallets littered all over Losomn though, lol)

@GameDevYal 5 месяцев назад

Remnant 2 is such a massive improvement to the first game, good job! (As an ex-Ikea employee I can't get over the anachronistic forklift pallets littered all over Losomn though, lol)

@Small_Leviathan 6 месяцев назад

I disagree with your take on Remnant 2, though I'll concede that if you're used to Souls games then the "normal" difficulty level is probably too easy for you. It's one of my favourite games of the year and I think that it has a lot of really inspired ideas for building a Souls-style that is more co-op focused (which is one of the games' cores conceits, though I never felt like I was having a lesser experience playing it solo) and also some absolutely *stellar* bosses, with the final boss being a particular standout.

@kevingriffith6011 6 месяцев назад

Weirdly, Remnant (The first one, never played the second) made me want to go back to Warframe rather than reminding me of souls-likes.

@zacc87 6 месяцев назад

Its probably the first time I've truly disagreed with this channel. Playing Remnant 2 I never really thought about how much of a Soulslike it was. I was always just impressed how well hidden its secrets were, or how fun putting together a new build was based on some new ring or gun I found. It's definitely not just some clone

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

yeah Remnant 2 wasn't a failure. It's one of my favorite games of all time. It blows the original out of the water. Having random generation and secrets gives you another reason to play it again and again and also makes multiplayer much more fun. Also it wasn't a failure at all. Many consider it one of the best games of the year and it was a huge success for Gunfire Games. He's taking something he personally dislikes and saying it as if it was a definitive reason why it failed. I hate Hollow Knight. I hate how the map system works and I hate the combat and having to come back to my body. Should I say it failed as a metroidvania because I personally didn't like it? No. People loved it, its a financial and critical success and helped explode the subgenre in popularity and is probably many younger people's first metroidvania due to its popularity. Just because I have gripes with it doesn't mean its bad or failed as a game.

@ThirsttyRecon 6 месяцев назад

I do agree with the channel when he stated Remnant2's design decisions led to a heavy reliance on AOE spam and bullet sponges to do difficulty, neither of which are great ways to go about it. Playing through Remnant 2 to apocalypse I always felt that the soulslike influences were always at odds with the FPS identity of the game, and they were never fused together in a good way. It was serviceable at best, but it could definitely have been done better.

@Air21Man 6 месяцев назад

'Indie game that is a direct copy of a Nintendo IP' is one of my favorite genres and they rock! Rivals of Aether, Ittle Dew 1 & 2, Cassette Beasts, Bug Fables, and Lenna's Inception are all such fantastic games! You really should check these games out if you haven't already.

@Cybernaut551 6 месяцев назад

I agree, Animal Crossing inspired Stardew Valley.

@Air21Man 6 месяцев назад

@@Cybernaut551 No. That was Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons.

@dyskord69isafurry64 6 месяцев назад

Rivals of Aether quickly became my favorite fighting game once I started using the steam workshop. I mean you can play as Ronald McDonald and a Primal Aspid from Hollow Knight vs. a Duracell battery and Peppino Spaghetti from Pizza Tower on top of a Waffle House, but you can also play much more serious characters/maps too. The shitpost characters are often so good they can sometimes valid for more serious matches, like Morshu and I.M. Meen for example. Anyway, rant over.

@FireFox64000000 6 месяцев назад

To illustrate your point Pong, the first home console game, is a clone of tennis and a fusball table.

@MegaPokefan97 6 месяцев назад

So... table tennis?

@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 6 месяцев назад

@@MegaPokefan97clone of tennis and fusball table

@jimijenkins2548 6 месяцев назад

Pong is itself a clone of a game called Tennis for Two. Look it up sometime!

@FireFox64000000 6 месяцев назад

@@MegaPokefan97 Actually that's more of a straight clone of tennis with no other elements added.

@erinkarp 6 месяцев назад

DnD is an example of clones not overtaking the original and it becoming stagnated tbh

@Zythryl 6 месяцев назад

As a 5e player of seven years, I definitely agree. If there’s one hill I’ll die on, it’s that Baldur’s Gate 3 sucks not because it’s a bad game (it is, but that’s not this point), but because it’s a bad D&D game. I thought it would fix or improve the things that made base 5e terrible, and it didn’t. It actually took one of the best things about D&D away. (You can’t have an impactful backstory-all player characters are special for the same reason and only special because of that reason: the parasite).

@LimeyLassen 6 месяцев назад

I feel like the nature of tabletop roleplay is that people will always prefer homebrew over a glossy product. Like, I think the reason D&D has endured so long is that most players don't take the rulebook that seriously and just make stuff up.

@erinkarp 6 месяцев назад

@@LimeyLassen I feel like that's equivalent to games with large modding communities

@unrealed 6 месяцев назад

This dissertation is a justification of WHY clones should exist, which is useful in the very cynical online conversations we often see online, but NOT HOW clones should exist. You talk a lot about how games tried certain mechanics (or not) but not really why, IN GENERAL, said attempts work. I specifically mean you do individual examples but not general applied learnings. I would love to see video about more of a general applied learnings of what to clone and what to change regardless of genre. It’s gonna be an imperfect video no matter what you say but it would be a jump off point to help designers narrow what to think about

@BewbsOP 6 месяцев назад

17:19 this is one of the things I hated about lies of P. Every goddang wooden bridge falls. It's a good trick once, it's annoying when it's done 75 frickin' times!

@jeff3221 6 месяцев назад

Yep. It's interesting they didn't learn from DS3 and it's mimic problem

@maxentirunos 6 месяцев назад

1. Complete and utter lie. Only a third of them do, and it's mainly in the first third of the game as a way to reverse-trap you later on. 2. none of them do that as an instant death trap, every single bridge that fall make you fall directly in the actual path to progress

@BewbsOP 6 месяцев назад

@@maxentirunos 1: I literally never said they were instant death traps. Not even once. You made that up yourself. 2: you've clearly never heard of hyperbole before. You see, when someone says "every frickin god dang time" it is very blatantly obvious they do not mean literally every single instance. Even a third of the time is way too many times. I don't care if it's to reverse trap you or whatever, it still overstays its welcome the twelfth time, no less the twentieth.

@jeff3221 6 месяцев назад

@@maxentirunos"☝️🤓 aktually it's more like a third!"

@maxentirunos 6 месяцев назад

@@jeff3221 Ah yes, Ad hominem because you got nothing to actually say in the discussion

@matthewdavis3421 6 месяцев назад

As a GMTK-clone, you should lift another good idea from there and put the title of the game currently on screen in a corner throughout. A video like this where you jump between games visually would benefit greatly. I'm sure Mark Brown, or whoever he lifted it from, won't mind you copying that.

@shmooters5599 6 месяцев назад

A "Clone" needs to justify its existence to be worthwhile. It is okay and usually good to pull from preexisting media, but one must be aware that by doing so one is choosing to compete with said media. So when pitching this to consumers, there needs to be a reason to pick the "Clone" over that which it pulls from.

@maraganger 6 месяцев назад

ayyy thank you for the shoutout ! glad my stuff managed to resonate with you in such a way. B)

@Boomblox5896 6 месяцев назад

I think Bug Fables did it best with its system mimicking Paper Mario but advancing it to have three party members at once instead of just two, and having an advanced dynamic with how to position your party members for either more damage or less aggression from enemies. The badge system is also really good and makes you really think about what you want to equip to certain party members, and for what battle you're going into.

@lucaslourenco8918 6 месяцев назад

So true! Paper Mario is heavily centered on Mario, all stats are for Mario, Mario is always the first one, the only one who can use spells, items and equip badges. And the variety of badges is greater in Bug fables, and they synergize much better! I wish Nintendo would learn a thing or two from them - that gameplay with the art design of Origami King would be *chef's kiss*.

@Boomblox5896 6 месяцев назад

@@lucaslourenco8918 Well, there is always Mario & Luigi if you want things to stop focusing so much on Mario and have another dynamic party member. The only Paper Mario game to take any focus off Mario was SUPER Paper Mario, but that had a much different gameplay than the others.

@kekcrocgod6731 6 месяцев назад

I wish bug fables did more to differentiate itself from paper Mario than just adding 2 more party members and nothing else. Even with the additional 2 party members the game still feels like an unoriginal copy of pm because literally nothing else is changed (they even copied the design of the room transitions…) the game doesn’t try to solve any of the problems present in the paper Mario formula and instead just introduces its own

@Boomblox5896 6 месяцев назад

@@kekcrocgod6731 First: How does it introduce its own problems? Second: How does it not fix the issues that the original Paper Mario had? It has a great story that engages all the main characters almost equally, and even involves side characters on the regular to the point that they have their own developments. The battle system takes into account enemy types like if the enemy is a plant or a bug and allows them to take more damage from certain types of attacks. I would say it has its own sense of originality, especially with its setting and lore, otherwise it would have copied assets directly from the Paper Mario games instead of creating its own props and characters. Being inspired by Paper Mario down to the art style and battle style doesn't automatically make it "unoriginal". Now do you care to explain in full as to why you think it's an "unoriginal copy"?

@ShadowoftheMask 6 месяцев назад

@@kekcrocgod6731 Eh, I disagree, I felt like Bug Fables was natural evolution of PM formula that PM series itself can't do because of its reliance on revolving around Mario

@crackudile2467 6 месяцев назад

In my opinion, creating games that are similar to other ones is what helps turn singular franchises into genres. That’s why as a big Monster Hunter fan, I enjoy games like Dauntless and Wild Hearts. Both of these have unique things that I love, like the building system in Wild Hearts or the different game modes such as escalation in Dauntless. Granted, I am a fan of giant monsters in general, hence why I’m so receptive to these things compared to the more spiteful reactions other people have had, but personally, I’m happy to see monster hunting evolve into a broader genre.

@azmioDV 6 месяцев назад

What is implied in the video but not fully pointed out is how the advancements brought on by clones are mostly if not always gameplay based. This makes sense as genres are largely defined by the mechanics they choose to combine.

@zacharywong483 6 месяцев назад

Fantastic script, as always! Love your editing and background clip selection as well!

@a_39442b 6 месяцев назад

Lost it at the Gävlebock image when talking about bonfires, good one!

@the1stscrub 6 месяцев назад

The enemy variety in Lies of P is very good though

@spike315 6 месяцев назад

Appreciate the Spell Break clip, really underrated and innovative game that I hope will make a return someday

@thehearingaid 6 месяцев назад

Agree with this. But also clones can also appeal to people who missed the originals too. Wargroove was one for me where having never played it's direct inspiration, I still loved it. And xcom is one I tried to play as it inspired alot of games I liked but just didn't do much for me.

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

I love the original X-coms and I just didn't like the new "XCOM" (the way you capitalize is important) games. They felt too "board gamey" to me and somehow the DOS one felt more complicated and more like a simulation than the remakes. I actually liked chimera squad more than 1 and 2 because it mixed it up and added alternating activations based on initiative and you could push enemies back in the turn order. I love games that do that and it made the combat more exciting for me and you also don't lose half your team in one enemy turn. I know some of the XCOM 1 and 2 diehards hated it for that.

@LORDOFDORKNESS42 6 месяцев назад

I'd argue Lies of P has two unique mechanics all its own: The handle & blade system, and being only allowed to carry one "spell," aka the legion arms at once. No other game has tried either of those to my knowledge. And the handle mechanic especially must have been TONS of work while really mixing up how people play.

@gamesmithing 6 месяцев назад

Hey Adam! Allan here, one of the devs of Soulstone Survivors! I'm a huge fan of your work since forever and loved the video! I definitely get the critique (and Im super happy to know you played our game!!), ever since we got Soulstone Survivors out there we are continuously trying to make it into its own game, since the beginning for us Soulstone was what we would like to see in the "Bullet Heaven" genre, we kept some elements, removed others, added some of our own ideas into the mix, but indeed, as the game currently stands I definitely can see how it might feel "automatically solved" if you played Vampire Survivors (or similar games). As we continue navigating the Early Access and learn from our own game, player feedback and other games in the genre, we are working on a few plans that hopefully will be able to break even more that sensation of closeness, while still keeping the core key elements that make the game what it is. At any rate, just wanted to thank you for the mention and say we are big fans, and I hope you will give a try to the game again in the future as we get closer to the 1.0 release!

@silverstar3844 6 месяцев назад

In defense of Wargroove, it is a spiritual successor more than a clone (Given how Advance Wars was dark for how long?). And even then, I get nostalgia because I get to play as the Floran from Starbound (Which is a clone of Terraria). It’s an interesting case study of the lines between all the terms.

@no_genius 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, I almost thought it would be about clones of old games keeping genres and dead games alive. Without Wargroove, would Advance Wars 1+2 have been remastered to Switch? I don’t think I can make the same case for Aviary Attorney, but it was the first Phoenix Wright-like I played, so it probably helped.

@starjake 6 месяцев назад

"that started before I was even born" *stares in old*

@Coffeepanda294 6 месяцев назад

That made me feel really old, too, lol. Born in '85 here.

@tinyhammertoksvig8218 6 месяцев назад

Did not expect a gävlebocken reference (3:51) in an Adam Millard episode. Nice surprise!

@FANDOMlong-live-US 6 месяцев назад

i love people taking things and doing their own spin on it, you'll get a lot of lazy stuff but you can in fact just not play bad games, I also consider studios to gain skills at making a type of game, so when studio tackles an idea they've done before they have an opportunity to further refine their design

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

people only remember the bad clones as being clones. theres plenty of good clones that people wont call clones. why isn't half life or halo a "DOOM clone"? NES mario bros isn't the first platformer, but nobody criticizes it as being a clone of the games before it. people will iterate and many will be shit, but sometimes we get a real gem and it moves the medium forward.

@nuiben7579 6 месяцев назад

I appreciated all the clone puns thrown in during editing

@gunnarschlichting9886 6 месяцев назад

When the music at 3:03 started and later picked up, I could tell it was from Nier Automata but had trouble placing it. I managed to find it however. That is the theme of the *Copied City.* Well played. *Edit: Oh, at the end of the section you give the name. Either way, appreciate the pun.

@EggBastion 6 месяцев назад

same same same, except I couldn't find the credit in the video or the description but scroll-scroll-scrolled to load every comment and see if I could search up any answers that way.

@samlaewen5762 6 месяцев назад

I watch a lot of video game essays, and have been following your channel for a while. This is one of the best videos I have seen and my favorite in your catalogue. It really changed my view on clones and I don't think I've seen another video even mention these ideas.

@GFluegel 6 месяцев назад

7:40 Holocure mentioned! /o/ Also actually a shining example for a "good clone" for me. Vampire Survivors lost me pretty quickly for how simplistic and clunky its gameplay was. Holocure took the core, improved on both control and enemy variety/patterns, revamped the fusion system into an imo superior and less limiting one, made the characters actually meanigfully different in abilities & playstyle and put superior visuals/music on top. Obviously, it being a very charming Hololive fangame was also a nice bonus for me (and likely a drawback for some others). :P The video overall has points that should be pretty obvious but still worth repeating and you used some good examples and insights into gaming history.

@Lishtenbird 6 месяцев назад

I saw the title and immediately rushed to comments to see if HoloCure would be mentioned; glad to know it will!

@GameBoyPL1991 6 месяцев назад

Having just played a lot more hours of Holocure over the Christmas than I should (to the point I had to delete it for my own good), I think it's already much better game than the Vampire Survivors. They basically improved everything, even the price point. :P

@vizthex 6 месяцев назад

damn, i love Sundered :'c didn't even realize it was procgen until my third playthrough lmao. Thought they handled it really well since major stuff stays in the same location, and only the small inconsequential rooms are what gets procgen'd. Even got every achievement cuz i loved the game so much.

@naahgol8608 6 месяцев назад

One of the few channels on youtube that I see a new upload and have to watch it on the spot. Hope you have a good new year and blessings for the next brother!

@MitchPlease 6 месяцев назад

I hope that was a bit and that you don't think anyone else could do this as well as you! Your analyses helped me get back into gaming

@wachyfanning 6 месяцев назад

If games are a constantly evolving medium, they actually have to go through the evolution process. That means, notable titles must have successors to inherit their better traits. As clones pop up in the subgenre, they gradually branch out and fill a whole list of nieches. Then, like rogue-likes, they become a whole genre in and of themselves until another great game is made.

@CubeDeveloper_Games 6 месяцев назад

This video is extremely helpful to me, I am developing a parkour game heavily inspired by Vector and Mirror's Edge as a love letter to both, my brother is working on the animations and I work on the code and general game design aspects. Vector is our number 1 inspiration, and at the start of development I think we fell into the rabbit hole of trying to recreate most of its mechanics given that we consider Vector to be the gold standard of 2D parkour games, mobile or not. We have successfully achieved this we think, but now we are left with a sense of not having done enough, or a sense of just being copycats of the original, but we know that we started from a place of admiration and LOVE towards Vector, and we know that we can improve upon the formula of the game by adding more moves and a better way of choosing your actions. It might not be as different from Vector as we would have liked at first, but thanks to this video I realized that it doesn't necessarily need to be different, but that it needs to be as good or even better at what the original was doing, as to progress this specific game genre to the next step. In any case, we will continue to work on our project, Runner's Faith, and trying to polish the mechanics to a level never seen before, if any of you is interested I have a devlog from a couple of months ago that showcases the potential of our game, and soon I'll make an updated devlog to show how it has improved!

@laconeznamy 6 месяцев назад

21:47 I started watching your channel since I loved GMTK too, so its interesting to hear that's how you got started in the first place. I'm very happy you've sliced out a different niche for yourself to cover; love your content!

@OliverBeebe 6 месяцев назад

Absolutely amazing video! I'm always impressed by how many games you're able to use as examples for your points. I really resonated with your points, but I could never have expressed it so clearly.

@cosmicspacething3474 6 месяцев назад

So basically you have to know what makes the games so great in the first place so you can use that to make a better iteration. You have to know what you Can, and Shouldn’t change.

@gengarisnotinsmash... 6 месяцев назад

Quick question: did you ever try the co-op for Remnant 2? Remnant says its a soulslike shooter, but in reality its a co-op soulslike. It's ten times more fun with friends, and unlike fromsoft games is designed with multiplayer in mind. Some bosses and encounters are balanced (in part) around multiple players, and if that isn't enough to convince you, they even have friendly fire, which is unironically the single greatest thing about the game.

@Caidezes 6 месяцев назад

Every game is more fun with friends. If it's not fun or balanced solo, it shouldn't let you play solo. (Not saying Remnant 2 isn't fun.)

@Ashen_Night116 6 месяцев назад

@@Caidezes Thankfully, Remnant 2 is fully balanced for solo play as well, it's just going to be more difficult to beat, but it's fully possible.

@JacksonSadinsky 5 месяцев назад

This was really, really good. The parallels to all types of art, and creation in general, are really nice. Happy new year :)

@dragjj 6 месяцев назад

Your shoutouts are always so good, they never miss. Thank you for them. And thanks for the good videos.

@kaijuge6934 6 месяцев назад

I'm glad you pointed out Vampire Survivors-I feel like "Survivorslikes" could be another genre, and I love it.

@FeiFongWang 6 месяцев назад

Hopefully they aren't called survivorslike because that sounds like the most unwieldy and pedantic genre name ever.

@william_sun 6 месяцев назад

@@FeiFongWang The names most commonly in use for the genre are "reverse bullet hell" and "bullet heaven". Functionally, it's a fusion of the bullet hell and rogue-like genres. I'd also argue that the common name is a misnomer and it isn't a "reverse" bullet hell at all, as it's still a bullet hell, but one where you're supposed to kill the "bullets" before they reach you instead of dodging them since most of them home on your position instead of flying past you.

@julianemery718 6 месяцев назад

Isn't it already part of the bullet heaven genera?

@FeiFongWang 6 месяцев назад

@@william_sun I think bullet heaven is a great name for it actually, since bullet hells normally force you to play defensively and be underpowered, heaven being the opposite makes sense.

@LimeyLassen 6 месяцев назад

The ongoing struggle to come up with a name for this genre is really funny to me.

@gerogero5931 6 месяцев назад

After playing and mastering Nioh 2's combat, originally thinking it was just a slightly jankier souls game but the layers upon layers of depth in its combat system just made it my favorite innovation to the souls formula. Turns out combining DMC-level depth of gameplay while retaining souls elements make for a damn good game.

@maxentirunos 6 месяцев назад

The only difficulty in Nioh come from near constant ganging of ennemies and the way the equipment is looted and you end up with 50+ version of the same item with different stats make exploration completely unrewarding.

@Digger-Nick 6 месяцев назад

Nioh is dark souls but actually good

@GameDevYal 5 месяцев назад

I was genuinely worried and a little bit disappointed in how easy the game was, but going into the harder difficulties after beating the final boss was a real blast - they don't just buff enemy stats, you get stuff like completely new enemy spawns blocking off previous safe / cheese spots and more demon fog zones. And then you start getting cursed enemies that will outheal you if you don't shut them down with finishers and backstabs and they force you to engage with them in a completely different way (you can't just take the safe options). It's got some amazing ideas, the only reason I stopped playing was because I'd literally done everything in the game.

@Geeklord1999 6 месяцев назад

After that loving characterization of "mimicry as flattery", I really didn't expect the video to end on "I need money to buy crisps". You kill me Adam.

@kingflumph5968 5 месяцев назад

Love the use of the Gävle Goat as the entry for "bonfire," very specifc tidbit that made me laugh. Great stuff Adam! I love your work!

@davidpereira5969 6 месяцев назад

for me, remnant is the only souls-like i enjoyed because the ranged combat gave some more variety to otherwise a "dodge, use melle, dodge, use melle, repeat" loop. sure you can kill enemies at range before they become a problem, but usualy enemies have either ranged attacks or come in swarms so that your ranged attacks don't trivialize any challenge. the random aspect of the world was good because it gave a lot more replayability (which the game does build on with specific items being acessible only on specific areas) and made me feel i was going to other areas and moving forward, rather than being on the same dungeon for a long time

@tylertrebitowski 6 месяцев назад

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the video, but the only difference between a good clone and a bad clone is whether or not you liked the new spin the clone had on the genre?

@shimmereyes8984 6 месяцев назад

Yes

@ystacalden 5 месяцев назад

I guess if they didn't put a new spin they're automatically a bad clone.

@ckwi2245 5 месяцев назад

A fun exploration for the future... How ARPGs and Action RPGs are still two distinctly different genres with the exact same name.

@derrickobara6806 6 месяцев назад

I was exercising in the middle of this video, and I realized something. (I liked the video, in fact many of them, it's why I'm subscribed.) I realized at one point that my attention was getting tired. I was expecting a pause between ideas, or a title card, or something, but the rest never came. It might help listeners if you added a few mid-idea breaks. Or maybe I'm just exhausted from the holidays. Anyway, happy festive times! Still loved the video per usual!

@tickytickytango5634 6 месяцев назад

"Wow, that was a great game. I hope nobody else has ever made anything remotely like it." - Nobody ever

@samuelconnolly347 6 месяцев назад

When I played A Plague Tale, I thought, 'This is just The Last of Us in medieval France'. There are a huge number of similarities, both in plot (extended escort mission through an apocalyptic hellscape with someone who has a mysterious resistance to it) and mechanics (e.g. upgrade benches, resources, supplements, listen mode). However, they're both among my favourite games. While there's undoubtedly a lot of influence from TLOU, APT feels fresh and interesting. It is different enough and it is its own game.

@LimeyLassen 6 месяцев назад

It's kind of amazing that your channel has over 100 videos on it, yet each one has something really interesting to say.

@hundvd_7 6 месяцев назад

11:23 I'm so happy you mentioned Desktop Dungeons It's such an underrated little gem

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

god I remember playing desktop dungeons ages ago when it was a free beta demo and I think it was in the 2000s? that game has come a long way.

@norrecvizharan1177 6 месяцев назад

I guess another good way to look at it is like this is from a pure artistry sort of perspective: if someone draws a really good portrait of, say, a dragon, and another person comes along, looks at it, and has their own attempt at a dragon that's roughly similar, then it's arguably a form of flattery for it to have been used as inspiration. Also probably a testament to just how well the first person drew them, seeing as how it's being used as a reference and such. Honestly, whether or not it can be considered a genuinely innovative rendition, or just a lazy clone really just depends on how "traced" the original reference is. It's really cool to see someone take a concept and add their own style, but if there's basically no differences, then it's not entirely as interesting. But the fact of the matter remains that, traced or not, it's still (usually) a well-made work in the end. Unless said person basically had zero skills and clearly used a ruler + other tools to do all the work for them (or in other words, built it entirely from store assets without real changes), then that's when artists and creators can usually collectively band together to shit on them for being lazy. Especially if they add insult to injury via charging more and/or trying to sell parts of the creation despite it clearly not being something they really put much effort into. Although on the flipside, one could argue that even one made out of prebuilt tools can be cool if it was creative (like the equivalent of assembling a bunch of template shapes into something extra neat, such as a tree made of stars), but those are pretty dang rare and tricky to pull off.

@androsh9039 6 месяцев назад

Great video. Minus 1 point for not mentioning "Diablo clones".

@cascenn 6 месяцев назад

Hearing you mention Sequelitus and Game Makers Toolkit and their influence on you is so cool! Personally, I get a ton of inspiration from your videos, as well as the others you mentioned. Just as you were inspired by others, others are being inspired by you! Keep up the great work!

@johnnydarling8021 Месяц назад

17:50 (plays Bloodborne) "This needs more Pinncchio."

@TheSectric 6 месяцев назад

As someone who loves fromsoft games, but has found every souls-like trying to copy them extremely mediocre, I had very low hopes for Lies of P. It ended up surprising me so much. The game even exceeds fromsoft games in some ways. It also genuinely might have the best feeling weapons/combat of any souls-like

@JanManRow 6 месяцев назад

21:40 "Hbomb is a punk, stealing things rules" - thank you for the inspirational and insightful words, shakespeare

@mrblue251 6 месяцев назад

Great vid, points made. Pointing out the tendency of some modern games to be an amorphous blob of mechanics and how there's a distinction between those and 'clones' that build upon inspiration had me like "yeeeeeeeeeesss"

@darkroninmarvel 6 месяцев назад

When I started in animation school, our teacher told us that rule n°1 *nothing is original; the trick is stealing with style.*

@stevenpedder5236 6 месяцев назад

Felt like you were talking about Dark and Darker! the game clones chivalry but with extraction elements from escape from tarkov but feels so unique. they also got sued for being similar to a chivalry mod.

@Ashen_Night116 6 месяцев назад

I'm going to level with you here, but it is no where near a Chivalry clone. There isn't the autistic level of animation abuse typically associated with Chivalry, the reason it got sued was because Nexon had a cancelled project (the one that the employees of Ironmace were working on presumably before they left Nexon), and Nexon was trying to strong arm them into not being allowed to do it, despite not having any copyright or evidence that Ironmace had taken anything from the project.

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

@@Ashen_Night116 yeah they had nothing to do with chivalry. Was because nexon was mad the devs went and made their own game with blackjack and hookers after they canned it.

@Guardian-of-Light137 6 месяцев назад

I still don't get why there aren't many dragon games. Where you either play as or ride a dragon or at least have one as a companion. It's such an untapped well of potentially amazing games and NOBODY is even trying to do anything with the idea. Except for the asset flipped what was it? Day of dragons? And that's ... I ain't even gonna get into it. But like why?! What are hey afraid of? That it would fail? That they couldn't make a good plot? (To be fair if it's triple A I could believe it. I'll wait on the indie developers.) If I had the capability I'd make it myself. I have plenty of good dragon game ideas. Even some where people can transform into dragons. Are people worried it'd be boring? Are they worried about balance? For crying out loud it's a DRAGON! Let the players have a power trip. Not everyone wants souls difficulty. Some people just wanna have fun.

@snotenberg7 6 месяцев назад

There was going to be an Xbox one game called scalebound, I think. But the game got canceled. the trailers looked awesome, tho

@Guardian-of-Light137 6 месяцев назад

@@snotenberg7 Yeah I had that in mind while writing this.

@SimuLord 6 месяцев назад

I would pay actual money for a game that's "Skyrim but from the dragons' point of view."

@gowzahr 6 месяцев назад

One issue that comes to mind is that, if the dragon is large enough, players are going to want to destroy things, which would require a robust and probably custom physics engine.

@Coffeepanda294 6 месяцев назад

I'm wondering the same. I've done a bit of horse riding, and so I'd love a game that replicated that feeling of having to stay in your saddle (one control stick could be your balance), moving with the same rhytm as your mount, and gameplay centered around the dragon being a living creature, with its own free will, not just an unthinking, 100% obedient machine like a motorbike. I believe Breath of the Wild experimented with this, where your hourse had a will of its own. You'd have to learn to communicate with them and earn their respect, like you have to with a horse. The game wouldn't even need combat in my eyes, just at most some sort of cool story.

@deadfr0g 6 месяцев назад

The Evolution Championship Series, often referred to simply as “Evo,” the most prestigious international tournament each year for Street Fighter and Street Fighter clones 🤣💕

@Adder6112 6 месяцев назад

Surprised you didn't mention A hat in Time at all cause it's marketing is the Return of the 90s 3D platformer, and it doesn't have any exact mechanic that is better than Mario 64 or Banjo Kazzoie, yet takes there Best Elements and refines them, with amazing Characters to boot

@MMMMorshu1 6 месяцев назад

That sentiment about starbound failing is really weird to me. It was a pretty decent financial success(sourcing wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt I guess), and it was in good standing creatively until the devs decided that becoming space jesus was the most important thing you could do. And even then, the modding scene there really took everything to the next level, creating entirely different ways to play and making far better and more focused storylines in some cases, and otherwise just adding more interesting content. As an example, the capture pods from the game gave me the idea of doing what would be a "pokemon run", where you can't hurt anything, but you have 6 creatures that can. Combining Frackin' with pandora's box lead to a unique game experience which I haven't been able to find anywhere else. While the game itself did fail on it's own, it created a community that made combos that fit into a niche of all sorts. Also, as for the whole exploring one world over a long time, I've got like 2.7k hours in terraria(about half and half for modded/vanilla), and 1k in starbound. Both work really well, but terraria was good unmodded, whereas starbound not so much. This is more of a ramble so I'm gonna conclude it by saying that, by the numbers starbound didn't fail, and modding is something that really needs to be taken into account when talking about a game's success.

@SimuLord 6 месяцев назад

"becoming space jesus was the most important thing you could do." I mean, it worked for Benjamin Sisko...

@nobody8717 6 месяцев назад

starbound felt like terraria, in space, at home.

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

ok but nobody really likes starbound. everyone says its just meh. it was not a critical darling.

@MMMMorshu1 6 месяцев назад

@@Zectifin Are we even talking about the same thing??? Literally in my comment I said that it wasn't that great unless you modded it. It's just a factual inaccuracy to say it failed because it made a lotta money.

@timpize8733 6 месяцев назад

Very good points. The best example it probably Street Fighter 2, which had so many clones that all the best ideas went into the following Street Fighter games. The topic is particularly interesting to me because I'm currently developing a clone of a game which, as far as I know, doesn't have clones yet (Pony Island). And I'm trying to do exactly that: push the formula further etc. 😅

@Hudston 6 месяцев назад

Excellent video that sums up my feelings on the subject perfectly. Bonus points for the Dream Quest shout out too, that's such an oft forgotten little artifact of a game that anyone who likes deckbuilders should really take a look at.

@seanmcfadden3712 6 месяцев назад

One video game genre that a lot of people seem to dismiss as "clones" are the Monster Tamer subgenre of RPG, often referred to as Pokémon clones. While I understand why (Pokémon being as popular as it is), there are quite a few that have almost nothing in common with Pokémon aside from creature collection and the comparison doesn't feel fair. For example, Monster Sanctuary has more in common with Metroidvanias than Pokémon, but because you collect creatures and combat is turn based, the "isn't that just Pokémon?" comparison feels inescapable. An upcoming monster tamer game that I'm looking forward to that does lean into to clone idea to the point of making fun of it, is Beastie Ball. Heck, an early character in it is a clear parody of the player character from the first gen Pokémon games (he's even called Red). Yet, the game's world and the fact that, instead of battling in a way inspired by competitive martial arts and beetle fighting (which is an actual thing that's a popular hobby in Japan), you play turn based volleyball, Beastie Ball feels incredibly different. There's also games like "Ooblets", "Monster Hunter Stories", the Persona franchise, "Monster Rancher", and the Digimon series. They are all worth considering on their own merits, yet keep being called "clones" by people less familiar with the genre. Similar to how a lot of people will use D&D to refer to any Table Top RPG, inspite of how many other systems for TTRPGs are out there that do stuff differently.

@elk3407 6 месяцев назад

With Persona calling it a pokemon clone is just insulting because it's a spinoff of Megami Tensei which is literally considered the series that pioneered Monster Collectors as a genre

@seanmcfadden3712 6 месяцев назад

@@elk3407 Absolutely agree with you there. Doesn't stop some people, annoyingly.

@JadeMythriil 6 месяцев назад

It confuses me why people would be upset with a "Breath of the wild" clone. I and many people love playing breath of the wild and I would want MORE games like it.

@christiandauz3742 6 месяцев назад

Big worry is that the clons would suck

@CrashSable 6 месяцев назад

Probably because we don't want the entire gaming landscape to become ONLY Breath of the Wild clones. Even the lesser evil of every future Zelda game being just Breath of the Wild again, completely abandoning everything we liked about the series to begin with, would be a tragedy

@leithaziz2716 6 месяцев назад

Not everyone is into the BOTW formula, and it's probably for the better that the market isn't flooded with too many games like that. Heck, some people miss the much older Zelda dungeon-style entries, now that enough time has passed to start missing them.

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

I would love a BOTW clone that didn't have the enemy difficulty spikes that penalized exploration and the weapon breaking mechanics. If someone made that I would probably love it. I wanted to like BOTW and I understand why people love it.

@LimeyLassen 6 месяцев назад

My main worry is that imitators copy Breath of the Wild's flaws along with its strengths rather than improving on it.

@alexandrezani 6 месяцев назад

You were born after 1993?!?!?!?! Thanks a lot for making me feel like a decrepit old man.

@SimuLord 6 месяцев назад

Join the club; I was in high school in 1993! I'm the same age as the Star Wars franchise.

@TheRubsi 6 месяцев назад

Amazing topic and amazing video!! What I would like to add the discussion is the topic of mods. I think mods and clones emerged somewhat together. People find something they love, but then they also realize the flaws and want to make a better version. This is how we got things like Dota and Counter Strike, which have basically created entire genres, and have each since been cloned a million times 😀.

@jacobharstad5696 6 месяцев назад

I caught the snippet of Marathon in there as one of the doom clones, and I remember distinctly liking it for both the story and the included level editor to mess with all the settings and make your own map, weapon/effects, etc. My cousins and I would take turns making unwinnable trap maps for each other to play.

@WarjoyHeir 6 месяцев назад

One thing that I find is really important with clones is that they understand what made the original successful. A lot of new SURVs overcomplicate the gameplay compared to Vampire Survivors where the gameplay boiled down to brainstorming builds and movig around. Bad clones copy exact mechanics and add stuff that doesn't support the core gameplay idea. Good ones build on that idea.

@saine-grey 6 месяцев назад

I think they are trying to build on the ideas but they accidentally add something that doesn't support it. The real issue is that people want GOOD games, if someone adds a mechanic that makes a game more fun then it has built on the idea, if they add a bad mechanic, then it's a bad clone. The other part is taste, some people may appreciate the added complexity and want something halfway between a full rpg and Vampire survivors. Changes, especially regarding complexity, shifts the audience. A good example of that is Remnant and Remnant II, I enjoy the fast paced shooting of Remnant to the slow methodical combat of Dark Souls. To some Remnant may be a worse interpretation of the Dark Souls formula but for me it's a vastly more enjoyable experience.

@Zectifin 6 месяцев назад

personally I think soulstone survivors is one of the best clones. there are plenty other bad ones out there.

@SimuLord 6 месяцев назад

I'm glad I stayed my hand and didn't comment before watching the video, because I was all set to mention Coral Island, a game I've nicknamed "we have Stardew Valley at home" (and I'm far from the only one; that phrase appears in plenty of Steam reviews of the game) in a broader comment about the difference between a knockoff and a push-the-genre-forward game. Which is which, of course, is in the eye of the beholder; I enjoyed Humankind a lot more than Adam seems to have, because it felt like a shakeup and a fresh take whereas I found Civilization VI stale and overcooked.

@Ashen_Night116 6 месяцев назад

That's because the team behind Humankind has a whole bunch of games that use the same system behind it, and each of those games is very good (subjective, I enjoyed all of the Endless 4x games that they've put out), the FIDSI system has more applications than what Civ has, ontop of having quests in the game that give you bonuses or make your life more difficult.