Closed Loop Stepper Motors for CNC machines 

What would you do with a single NEMA34 Closed Loop Stepper? Leave a comment and let me know. Thanks for watching!

i'm working on a parts list for a cnc router and i'm planning to use closed loop nema 23's. this video was very helpful in understanding how they work. thanks a lot for posting

I was shoping for stepper motors and came across the term "closed loop" I was not sure what a closed loop stepper motor is untill I watched this video. very well explained thanks

absolutely amazing introduction to closed loop stepper motors. Thanks.

Just to correct some terminology. A "Hybrid Stepper Motor" has noting to do with being closed loop, it is a type of stepper that is effectively a cross between a "Permanent Magnet Stepper Motor", and a "Variable Reluctance Stepper Motor". Hybrid Steppers are the type that most people are probably familiar with. Adding a feedback (AKA closing the loop) effectively turns any motor into a servo motor / system. While servos are typically made with BLDC motors, they need not be. A servo motor is just a motor with a feedback mechanism. Hobby servos used in the RC world are typically brushed DC motors with a potentiometer used for positional feedback.

WOW! That's extremely well explained. Cheers Mate!

I built a PCB mill back in 1998 with steppers with encoders. I wrote the control software in VB6 and after each move, I had the code check the encoders and make minor positional corrections. If a deviation was over a certain valut it would halt the machine. It's cool to see this hybrid with the encoder and intelligence on the hardware level. Thanks.

Build the 4/5th axis with it that's a perfect use 👍😁

Hello, nice explanation. What about an optical scale? Is tandem of simple stepper and scale will work same way for mill? I mean adding steps to keep instrument in exact position?

Hello, Can we use servo motors with the duet boards? Thanks

Great video and explanation. Thanks for it. Just a question, is PID or some kind of controller involved in the Hybrid Servo Driver ? If so, where can i see the PID parameters, or can i change these PID parameters with the sofware ?

Frank, consult, I have 3.2 amp stepper motors as I can regulate the current output with this hybrid controller. And by default with how many micropasses this hybrid controller comes. Thank you for your support.

Kind regards from Colombia. Thanks for sharing. Could you tell me what the SW6 is for or what its function is. Thank you in advance for your valuable time and sensible response. Health blessings.

Hi, great video. I was planning to make a camera slider sort of thing but for the old big 29 inches CRT TVs. What combination of a motor and micro-controller should I choose? I want the slide to be silent while moving and move slowly. Thanks !

Nema 23 is fine for plasma I believe. I want to build a dual table though. Plamsa and cnc milling machine. So the power to drive the spindle whilst its carving steel is nevessary.

I am thinking about using these to rotate the steering forks on a ridable robot. Do you think this setup could be executed reliably? Or do they have errors a lot?

hi with the closed loop stepper motor to go on a plasma cuter you will have to put the driver box next to the motor or could you extend the cable to your main electrical box ?????

Hi. I'm changing my stepper motors for hybrid. I'm wondering about the pulse per revolution. Is it the same as normal step per revolution? On one stepper i have 64.147 step per rev. Should i set the same pulę per rev. ? Thank you

so if it has an error and doesn't hold its position, when I mount it on the Z axis, will the spindle drop?

which one is best for making a CNC milling machine , servo motor or closed loop ??? because I do not see any difference between them please can you make me deiced because I want to build one and I am confused with that.

You can do this to normal stepper motor just add an encoder..for the driver thats the tricky part..but i think it samples feedback and looks for error..incase of error it rectifies

Hi Mate, I am going to carry a steel pallet (overall weight of 700 kg) over rollers with 2 stepper motors on each sides, do you reckon "Nema 42 CNC Stepper Motor Bipolar 30Nm" is enough for this application?

Good video. Just a clarification - the encoder doesn't tell the controller that it missed some steps. It merely reports the shaft angular position to the controller and the controller makes the determination about the error in position and makes an adjustment using some kind of closed-loop control algorithm such as PID.

Trinamic TMC2130 drivers have most of the closed loop advantages, but are still open loop. But I think the TMC2130 Drivers are linited to NEMA17.

Hi, what's the max torque and speed un DC mode?

Hello can u explain how to invert the direction of the motor so that 2 motors can be on the same axis using NEMA 34 and hsb860h driver. I mean detail wiring

I have the same HBS 57 on the same side as the dipswitches are 3 pin serial connector for configuring the driver and there is supposed to have corresponding software. can you please tell me the pinout of the 3 pin serial and a link to the proper software? I have looked everywhere with no luck!?!??

I'm assuming you can step this motor using an Ardunio controller. I just ordered this motor along with a CL86T stepper driver and 48 volt 10 amp power supply. I am making a soda can crusher using this motor. I tried using a NEMA 23 stepper motor and having problems with it stepping back to zero because of slippage.

I have a NEMA24 HYBRID SERVO SET 33KG-CM W/T 80V 7AMP DRIVE RS485 MODBUS COMM. I want to run the motor and control it specifically using an Arduino board but when I give the connections it is not running. My connections go from an SMPS to the two-phase servo drive. the encoder wire from the motor is connected to the drive and the same with the motor terminals. But the motor is not running when I try it like this. Please if possible could you help me out a bit.

Hie man I just received my stepper motor just like yours in this video I'd like to ask about the feedback signal connection to the plc I'm usind a dvp20sx2 delta model plc

Normal stepper drivers set the current as well, the reason hybrids run cooler is they don't need to assume they'll be under full load when not turning, normal steppers have to be held at full current to brake them, with an encoder the current can be reduced until the point the encoder says WHOA! the motor is moving, at that point the controller can ramp the current back up to just enough to hold it in position so the brake current in most cases is far lower for a hybrid stepper, if a hybrid stepper is under full load it'll get just as hot as any other stepper.

Dear friend, I saw your video and thank you, you were very understanding and finally the closed loop is the new technology I wanted to ask you something very interesting because I do not use CNC technology only for movement in my machines lathe mill, etc., I can drive the engine with these new machines as I do with the simple steppers with pulse generator thank you very much .

Depending on what stepper driver you have for the open-loop steppers... you can...to some degree... know when you have lost steps- like a TMC2130 with StallGuard2. It does not know how many steps were lost, but does re-home and continue.

i wanna use nema 23 closed loop stepper motor to build a robot using arduino with ramp 1.4. Is that possible for servo driver connected to ramp 1.4. Im looking for your answer! thank you

Hi. I ran out of 18 AWG stranded wires for the motor A+ A- B+ B- connections. Instead, I used 14 AWG stranded wires for it. Is it okay? Thanks for the reply!

I need high torque stepper motor and high speed? From where I get this motor

What would it the point of using a servo now if we have this?

GREAT video ... thanx !!

I need to buy 3 nema 34 closed loop steppers. I want to hook them to the centroid acorn board

So what is pulses per rev actually doing? Say you set it to 800 pulses per rev...what does the motor do if you only send 799 pulses? Does it define the angular resolution. So for 800 you have an angular resolution of 360/800? Thanks

Very interesting. Thank you for your time

"Stepper motors" are actually just many-poled synchronous motors which can be driven like regular synchronous motors as well. The only difference is that they don't have an encoder built in, so you can run them in closed loop if you put an encoder on the output shaft. The big drawback is that most cheap controllers (like the RAMPS-based ones) don't allow for any encoder connections, so you need more sophisticated controllers to make that work. Also, synchronous motors can be run closed loop with a method called sensorless back-EMF sensing, which would also work on regular stepper motors. The idea is that the controller will monitor the undriven poles of the motor to see if there is any induced voltage and if there is, it means the motor shaft has moved, so the controller can adjust accordingly (or conversely, check if there is any movement on the undriven poles and re-try when that doesn't happen while it should.)

Awesome video man this really helps me because I didn't you could program the controllers for these, I've got a set of nema23's running on my CNC now and I'm finding they are too sensitive and go into alarm mode too early.

this saves me sooo much time and try and error... and finding the stuff only to find out.. that this is a nice feature- for robots or so. but not for my small 23er setting. 🕉 thx and over and out.

Well done sir keep going

I encounter in bungard cnc if the machine is running sometimes z axis is going deep more than my set up

Your explanations was very clear, tha nks👍👍👍👍👍

that is damn impressive !

What size cat did you use for this video?

building Arm robot ok?

Very helpful stuff sir thank you very much

I think that rs232 port is a standard cisco cable. should be easy enough to find one locally.

Very informative thank you!

I want to know what you did with the tuning software once you got the cable. That is what I want to see. Literally no one has posted anything about tuning and results delivered afterwards. PLEASE POST A VIDEO ABOUT THIS!

Have you got any experience with the G540 Geckodrive ? What would you recommend for a stable system Geckodrive or chinese closed loop kits ? I am about to make an upgrade and it's hard to take decision. Thank you.

There are limitations to hybrid systems, like quite limited RPM under load. If you need a motor that can be run with large RPM, lots of power and can also be moved accurately like a stepper, you need AC-servo motor which is VFD driven AC motor with optical feedback. They are the real workhorses of any CNC where they can be used for everything including high speed spindle motors, that can also move in sync with other axes of the machine with very low RPM's but can push out kilowatts of power. :)

Where did ypu get the software for programming i cant find it anywhere amd ive had these for over a year now

why is it drawing only 1.3 amps at stall? shouldnt it be more? thats only about 45 watts ?

I’d build an electronic lead screw for my metal lathe.

Tanks very useful.

Do the closed loop have a faster speed with out errors? I am running ballscrews with regular steppers on my cnc plasma and can only go to about 65 ipm before I get a missed step and it stalls the motor. My ballscrews have a 5mm pitch, I should have gotten higher pitch. I have tried to tune the motors a million different ways but they still skip steps above that speed. Any ideas or settings that I could possibly be over looking?

Change the spindle motor on my smaller CNC lathe to do accurate threading

Hi Bob. Another great video, thanks. Aren’t you able to replace any of the other motors on the plasma table with this one. And then perhaps make new motor mounting plates at your leisure.

I want to build a cnc plasma like yours with closed loop steppers .can you please tell me witch breakout board can work with this in cnc plasma?

A forth axis setup might be a good use of this kind of motor.

Hello, is it necessary to use the RS 232 cable for the safety of the CNC machine to work with the Mach3 program or is it only used to show the values? Please help and thank you very much

Hi ! How to get out from the alarm mode ? give it a pulse on the enable pins ?

hi I'm using the same engine, attached directly to a rotary table, I can't configure it well on mach3 can you help me? thanks

Very well explained

what's the difference between hbs86h and hbs860h

good info

I'm in the process of making a cnc plasma table, Can i have closed loop on one axis and open loop on another axis or do they need to be all the same

I have that same motor. I would use it as a 4th Axis. Mount a small chuck directly to it.

Love your cat

Ques... what are the advantages of having a gear reduction system installed ewww ad of just direct drive with a spur on the motor and the gear rack? I keep getting a loss of steps on my nema 23 motors and idk if I should upgrade both motors on my gantry to nema 23 closed loop stepper motors or if it will help if I have a gear reduction system with a spring tensioner. Any advice?

Making stuff up!

Great video , I am going to try upgrading and older CNC machine , after watching your video I will be checking out the closed loop set up sounds like it might be what I need . Do you think a NEMA 23 would work , anyway thanks for the great info .

Can you tell me please the name of the program you use to control the motor?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are actually servo motors which are made to operate like steppers by the controller. Servos are definitely superior, but controller cost has been a limiting factor in the past.

Fist of all, congrats for the video. I have a simple question, can you help me please? I wanna know if I can read the position of the encoder in a PLC, for example. In my project I need to set a home position without a external sensor. Thanks, and congrats again.

The alarm could stop my GRBL machine, but it would be tricky to recover and start again at the same xyz location to continue.

@13:29 That free swinging vice grip shows me that a counter balance on my Z axis is a very real requirement and not an option! Very informative video. Thank you. Use for a single motor? Pump up the amps and make an arm-wrestling robot - get it to error state to win. Oh yeah, small disclaimer.. it will break bones so you might want to consult a lawyer before taking it to the local school fete.. :)

11:38 to the pulse-pin? Sorry I did'nt get that. What is this pin for please?? Is this mimiking the signal, that usually comes from the breakout board???

Hi Bob, I have exactly the same driver and would like to know how did you figure out which wires to connect for the encoder part on the driver? I got mine from china but they did not send me the encoder line. How do I know the way to connect to EB+ EB- EA+ EA- VCC EGND? Thanks in advance.

Hello Bob, Correct me if I am wrong, to insure I understand you did you say that the NEMA 23 2.2N.m motor is the best to use on the plasma cutter than the NEMA 34? Also it would take three motors to control the x y z axis? My table I am building is like yours. The work area is 4' 1" sq. which will allows me to put a 4' sq. metal with the 1" extra to allow me to place the work piece in/out and center the metal in the work area.

Dear sir, your video is nice of demonstrate of stepper motor and drive, we are the utm machine manufacturers, we fabricat universol testing machine s, we are planning to use big size stepper motor (nema 34/ 56 ) to our utm machine, our machine maximum capacity is 1000 kg. In up and down direction, our Machine verible speed from 12.5 mm/ minute to 500 mm/ min, for more torcke we are planning to attache a speed reduction warm gear box, For our project please suggest which stepper motor and drive is suitable. Hope you can respond.

How do you keep the closed loop stepper motors/drivers from faulting out when Zeroing to the top of the material? If the motors/drivers fault out during the zeroing process how do you recover the drives without powering down the machine?

Magnificent 👌🏽👍🏽👌🏽👏🏿👏🏿🔥👍🏽👌🏽👏🏿

Hi there!Maybe you can help me out with something...I am at the final step of building an electronic leadscrew...i use the same closed loop hybrid steper motor but after connecting everything the motor does not move at all....it is the clough42 project but i used this motor and stepper.....maybe y0u can help me?

PLEASE bare with me. I am new to this CNC/Electronic stuff. On the NEMA 23 motor driver one of the cable port on the driver it was said that they are hard to get and is needed to program the motors. In your CNC Plasma Upgrade you updated to four Phase Stepping Drivers. So these four drives will operate all four motors, correct? Two motors on the Y axis -one on each side of the table to move the gantry, correct? One on the gantry (x axis), correct? One to operate the ball screw (z axis), correct? The MESA 7I96 is the computer board that is programmed to operate all the axis? What does the 4 channel rely board do? What motors do you recommend for the xyz axis? Please provide info Thank You for time and again I am trying to understand this CNC/Electronics.

hi what the different between this motor closed loop and the ac servo ? and the ac servo need specific breakout board ? for lathe or router or milling machine conversion? thanks

Hello. The high voltage connector AC-AC.where is the positive pole. I will use 36 volts DC. and SW6 has no information, I leave it on or off. My engine is 85 NM.

I like the looks of the size of that larger stepper motor, those others look like they would be wimpy on power but I have not gotten a machine built yet to know. I'll see if I can think of something worthwhile you can do with that one.

What is the torque rating if that motor? Also how to reset the drive once it faults out? Do you have to power cycle it?

Could you please show how to use the nema 34 as cnc spindle?

Let's build a CNC router. i actually have a 6'x4'x5" marble that i was thinking to turn to a router. i sometimes need to machine big plates and i always have that problem. if you want i can post pictures.

Sir!!!, Good day!!!, I want Steper motor with simple six axis controller, so please let me know commercial price for India Pune. Pl. do the needful.

I have the same motor and driver (12nm and hbs860h driver), I wired them up correctly and everything worked fine until I disconnected the encoder and my driver burned out immediately... I have no idea why, do you? Btw. You inspired me to make a cnc router, thanks.

I would use it for my robotic arm project

I like your good work