CMON is EVIL! 

Same here! I'm sad he went to the dark side :(

totally agree. I love Lang and his games so much, but CMon makes me not want to buy them because I don't want to support their crap.

CMON seems like a style over substance company. Good mini's, average mechanics. Ankh seems to be trying to be a short game with lame catch up mechanics. CMON needs Ankh to keep their pirate ship afloat, start bailing out now!

@@chasethecat2399 LOL! Incidently, they also tend to make a few GREAT games as well every so often. I think the only game I've gotten from them that I actually kind of dislike is Rising Sun. It's not so much that they are bad, but they are very mass marketed and it very often shows. It's like before they even go to the designers they have some focus tests and check a bunch of boxes and then go to the designers and say: make me a game that is this theme and does these things. Obviously half the time it'll be neat, bot nut overly so. Other times they might actually hit a home run instead of bunting haha

Someone has to! I'm fully prepared for the Corporate Defenders to come out and tell me how CMON is great and this was all just a train of oopsies on CMON's part.

@@TheKingofAverage Someone did already. A LOT. For the past eight years. It is like you never visit Board Game Geek.

@@TheKingofAverage CMON is great and this was all just a train of oopsies on CMON's part!!

My thought, too

Asmodee is right there with them these days.

What about Asmodee? They seem pretty EA to me.

Truth!

True...

Good for you!

I`ve tryed to argue this with someFB groups - ppl are stupid I tell you, thinkin its ok that the retails get the games first!

Absolutely, as backers, we should get the privilege to be first...at least we get our friends who didn’t get involved

Sean Dooley ... it didn’t say or specify that the game would be available before the KS delivery, do believe that should’ve been made aware to us, then let’s us make our decision to opt into KS exclusives?

Always. ALWAYS. You *ALWAYS* give preferential treatment to the people who supported you. Otherwise, as certain companies have found, those supporters take away their support...

@Sean Dooley I'm not a massive fan of exclusives. I personally believe a Kickstarter campaign should be there to print the complete game for companies who are just starting up and could not normally afford the expense. I think maybe they should get a limited edition box or something like that. But sadly Kickstarter doesn't work the way I would want it to.

Lmao

Only if the "O" in CMON is circling their buttholes.

A branding would be more suitable

Heya Oldboy and welcome! Don't feel so bad about backing it :) We're all consumers and have to deal with what we have available to us. As I said in the video myself, I hate it because while I dislike how they treat consumers often, there are times where they do a lot of good as well and I very much enjoy a lot of their games! In fact for the last two years one of their games has gotten my Game of the Year award!

You got it exactly right.

KS has now gone full DLC.

Agreed, they made enough money to not need the aid.

Cmon lives off FOMO. It is their business model. They would not be as big without Kickstarts.

@@MRiJUSTcantREMEMBER Agreed. I'm on the hook for 2 of their Kickstarters at the moment.

Why? They should they abandon the audience they've built on Kickstarter?

@@drewolds721 They wouldn't owe KS royalties anymore for one and I think they are established enough to keep making and selling games.

Haha thanks! I'll take that over Jim Stirling :D

The King of Average The ‘AAA’ board game industry...

TwistedThistle I second this as well. To a tee.

We are not pre-order-money because we get the games later every time. We are free credit they can forget. And fun think Retailer Pledges with all the "exlusives" Stuff are normaly shipet with the Retail Copy. This going on now for at least a year.

@TwistedThistle I also made it into the Pledge Manager and completed my 2 wave shipping prior to them shutting it down, but I also received a message stating the amount I paid for shipping was too low and I would have to go back in and up my payment to make up for the difference! Haven't decided what I'm going to do yet, but we shall see tomorrow. If the 2 wave shipping is astronomical then I will simply have Visa get my money back for me if CMON will refuse me a refund.

Thanks Twisted I really appreciate it, and good info for sure! What I really feel for is the $1 backers that didn't have a chance to add all their products and see what shipping should be around. This really screwed them over more than most I think, especially if they were $1 backers as money is a bit tighter.

LOL! A literal gag order! Nah just one of my kids being loud when they shouldn't :) In a normal video I could re-record and edit out, but I was kind of "in the moment" so excuse the slightly less quality audio portion :)

And let's not pretend you still don't have some great games to play ;)

Cthulhu: Death May Die or Zombiecide Invaders anyone. Retaill Versions weeks earlyer then backers and Retail Pledges with all the "Kickstarter Exlusives" to! And after shiping to Europe the All in Version in Shops was even cheaper.

Haha thanks! I was cracking up while putting the images in the video :D

For a great card game: Marvel Champions. For a great miniatures game: Marvel Crisis Protocol.

Marvel: Crisis Protocol

Thanks you both :)

Hopefully learn from, but I doubt it :( Happy to hear MvM called them out, though after looking at it the tweet is a super softball call out, but better than nothing! :D

Yeah, no more CMON games for me.

Exactly this

I don't know. Is this such a big deal really at a certain perspective? It sucks that CMON at times has poor ethics, but is this specific situation really deal breaking? If you only want the core game then yes I can see that. But if you're in it for the exclusive extras then I don't see the big deal waiting a year to play the game which is usually the norm for waiting for a ks project. _ Someone whose situation only applies to the core game doesn't effect my situation, but it is worth noting a corporation's scummy moves towards others. What will effect everyone overall is when these disgruntled backers don't return for future projects to help out on stretch goals, and rightly so if a company continues building a bad reputation for itself.

It's been long running off and on. Were you around for the "it'll take us too long to make the giant Cthulhu so we're going to hyper limit how many can get it each month and raise the price because reasons" only to then make all of them months ahead of time? That's a classic! :D

Thanks Kidtendo! :) Happy to hear it's appreciated.

I'll be there the day it does though :)

No that's not true. kickstarter taks their fees when the campaign ends, so you can never get a 100% refound, but 90% of game companies offer refounds for their backers unntil games ship/get manufactored. CMON are just being scummy.

So you can wait until after your refund period to get stuff? :D (I get what you mean) :)

Not in this case cause I didnt back it. However based on the past, the only CMON KS I did end up backing was Hate and that was cause it was a KSE. All others I opted to buy retail. Often pre-ordering KS versions cheaper than if I had backed.

I think they actually did a great job. Very refreshing campaign.

@@marmank You dont think its a problem, both the game and SG are so small? Its 1 board compared to 4 boards in their 2015 game. Not even the 2 small flip pirateship boards where a SG. And they are not selling any addons (old ones) before after the end of the campaign.

@@unclemongrel-setsailforfai6147 The price for all of the stuff was fair. There were loads of new scenarios and a lot of ne minis for me. The ship boards are as big as one normal board together. There are only a limited number of add-ons, since they are only available from stock. They are now looking into doing a reprint and we all got a survey for that already. I also liked what they did with the SG's and adding stuff to the add-ons as SGs. But, we all like different things :)

@@marmank Hmm guess its just me then, not thinking its fair they throw a campaign giving you 50% less than the last one...

milkrobotics Yes. They’re the reason people keep giving for why the Song of Ice and Fire retail stuff is always months late to the stores.

ewww gross Asmodee.

Will do! Glad you liked it :)

​@@TheKingofAverage You should consider changing the name to The King of Honesty ;)

HAH! :D

right? Who does this kind of crap? -_-

Hmm, well put! I have to take a serious look on my future backing of CMON KS's at this point.

Nemesis is not from CMON, but from AR. And AR don't usually get their games to retail, so no worries there. AR games only go to retail if shops backed the kickstarter, usually.

@@eliashartmark1522 I was probably trying to say to many things at one time Kickstarter is great for generating hype then making you wait and even knowing up front it was going to happen the wait still stung What CMON have done is much worse

stefan tyler now I understand :)

Ankh will get funded in less than 10 mins

A few is an understatment.

Eh, just wait for their next time machine :D

The King of Average ... just so crappy....we have to pledge, sure us real gamers want a new game..,an of the shelf game...1 of my favourite games is Arkham lcg, I don’t need miniatures to play, just a friend/or not...My point is...with all the miniatures from KS. are you actually gonna use them/paint them... or just to try sell them for profit

Oh and even if everyone refunds through KS for MU, it won't matter because they have already said how much more money they make through retail than KS in earnings calls etc...

Funny joke

They were at the time. But then your LGS didn't sell the games they made outside of Kickstarter, and they reported a sizeable loss for the year. So now they're back to Kickstarter.

I like a lot of those (Bloodborne included) :D Sadly I'm that "friend" that buys them so my friends never do lol

Greenbrier???😂

Can’t agree about Greenbriar due to “Dragon Tides” they sold my pledge to get their money back rather than litigation, nice not. So they wouldn’t get my p***s if on fire!

I haven't had any problems with Greenbrier... But always 2 sides. Sorry you guys have 😥 Actually can I put Golden Bell on the top of the list?? 😆

That’s what Reaper Bones is for :)

Massive Darkness came pretty close :D

Massive darkness

I own massive darkness. I meant that they literally just look at the monster manual and players handbook and make models that are direct rip offs of every single creature/race in many poses/loadouts and sell it. Like 3000 miniatures for an all in of 1000 dollars and no game

I honestly think they'll still take refunds (minus KS fees after that date) but heck if they are going to say that. Instead they'll word it in a way to where hopefully some people think they're stuck with it.

Hah! What's contradicting about this? I've been singing this tune for quite some time very openly so confused what you think would be contradicting? As for clickbait, I hope you aren't referring to my video. If I wanted clickbait I'd have put something about Coronavirus in the title for easy clicks. No one is baited here. The subject of the video is exactly in the title and within the first few seconds I tell you as such.

LOL not if that's what the video is about. You might be confused between two words: "bait" and "enticing" - every single custom made thumbnail and written title is made to be enticing, on every channel. Otherwise we'd just have the video ID from the camera as the title and the thumbnail would be blank white. Bait, is something that looks enticing, but is a lie. It's the hook made to look like a nice meal. You often see this with junk like "10 Amazing facts on how to cure AIDS! Number 3 will surprise you!" My video describes exactly what I'm talking about. There's no bait and switch and I don't beat around the bush about it either. You read my title, you know exactly what the video is about.

The King of Average. CMON is EVIL. CAPS. You are baiting people. That’s what your title does. If you are blind to that, okay, your channel your rules. You have a grudge against CMON, okay. However, contradictory to your previous video, CMON does, more than not, meet all three of your criteria for running a good Kickstarter. That’s contradicting. Just because they burn some people on shipping dates, that is unfortunate. But the amount of stuff we get for the price is on par. I agree that CMON has abused Kickstarter as a preorder platform, and not so much a kick start system, but it’s not illegal. How about we just look at CMON as a company that is selling retail product using KS as an advert platform. That should fix your assumption that we are “backers”. I get it. I feel your frustration. I have been there, but let yourself be free of consumer supply and demand assumptions with KS. I know it doesn’t feel good, but...you belittle Marvel United without ever playing the game, you did the same for Return to Dark Tower in your previous videos. Again, your channel, your rules, but listen. It’s just petty. Use that energy to do what you love. This is like watching a movie star who has become famous start chiming in on politics. I just want to watch them in movies. That’s what they do best. You have great talent being wasted on berating CMON and the business side of our hobby. You begin to cater your channel to people who enjoy negatives and if that is what you want, then, again, your channel. Build the audience you want. CMON Kickstarters provide 1. Exclusive content. 2. Cheaper (than retail). 3. Sooner (most of the time). CMON is not Evil, they are a company. You’re describing EVERY for-profit company.

I backed it and couldn't care less. I backed it only for the KS exclusives, and I know the way they operate. They don't the need my money to "bring a project to life", and I'm cool with that. Kickstarter is a store front now. The sooner people accept that, the happier they'll be.

@@derekgarcia3069 For big producers like CMON kickstarter is a store front, but not for the little and medium guys. They need the support to make their games come to life.

They said in their update they they will refund if you asked by Wednesday the 18th, the day before the PM opened back up.

@@TheKingofAverage but you can get refund and simply late pledge as normal, what I understand is that they did nothing wrong and allow everyone to do everything, donno what I am missing

You are very welcome, happy to do so though sad I needed to.

The King of Average Yes, sad indeed!

Oh yes they are pros on starting out with a price 1/4th of what the final all-in price will be :D

Eh it might just be my voice :D

Funny enough, they seem to determine the type of Kickstarter they are going to run, as well as quality of components and such beforehand. For instance Starcadia Quest, a very retail focused game came with expensive packs of 2 characters for $12 a pop and the cheapest cardboard I've seen in a very long time. Compare that two something like HATE or Rising Sun and they used really nice cardboard and ended up even giving away whole tribes for free toward the end. Leaves all of us guessing of course what quality category they put each of their games. Can't take a guess for Trudvang, but for Ankh I imagine it'll be similar to Rising Sun, which they chose to make high quality and fairly standard campaign wise :)

Then they should still be open about it. No excuse.

I yelled at KS last time. It was CMON's turn this time :D

Yep CMON is king of adding "just $30 more" 12 times in a single campaign :D

Good for you! You'll be able to enjoy the core game sooner and cheaper and without giving CMON money so that's a triple win :)

@@TheKingofAverage now I can instead pledge for Frosthaven 😆

and yeah... this a very sleazy maneuver... but guess what... people will do what people can do... and CMON is confident to test this out.. they have a very solid proven ground to instrumentalize FOMO in a new way.... so, it is up to the backers to show how wrong or right they are....

Yeah totally agree, I've actually started including a assumed $30+ shipping cost into every pledge level for myself. So when I saw $60 base pledge for MU I view it as a $90+ base pledge. I wish they'd all at least add their completely wrong estimates into the pledge imagery. CMON is weird. For every campaign like Bloodborne where they actually hold backer votes and give tons of gameplay specific updates there's one like this. I swear different teams do different KS's lol As for click baity, I am making a pretty drastic statement that (ideally) I back up well, but the video title is EXACTLY what the video is about and I don't beat around the bush to get to my point either :) Now if I put out a video saying "10 things that make CMON evil - #3 will surprise you!" and then the video is just a big ad for my Patreon, please do call me out on it :D Yeah it's enticing, but I never want to confuse you guys with my titles. Ideally you never go into my videos wondering "what is this really about?" :)

I totally agree with you, to be clear :) I think we just have different ideas of 'evil.' Like, a are they as bad as fake medicine factories or baby powder manufacturers who put poison in the milk? Here in China, both happened and are on a scale apart from 'normal' (ugh) misinformation/deception. That sad, I'd take no issue if it were just CMON Sucks... and here's Why!... or something :) All that said, no issue with taking corps to task :)