THIS VIDEO WAS SPONSORED BY CO PRINT Check out their Kickstarter here: www.kickstarte... My Store: nathansellsrob... Patreon: / nathanbuildsrobots Discord Channel: / discord Podcast: www.perfectfir...
Using an actual print as a purge block is a neat idea. I can imagine that the color doesn't really matter for a functional print or something that gets painted anyways.
I agree. Might even be able to sell purge prints for less, or maybe a one off that someone really likes. I seem to think unicorn poop is still in style for some people.
I started looking at how to do multi-color on my klipper machine and came to this exact conclusion of feeding into a direct drive head with coordinated extruders like these that I had sitting around. So glad to see that these guys just saved me a ton of work, I'll definitely be supporting this!
Two things that are keeping from backing this: 1 - Material Waste. If and when the AnkerMake V6 color engine comes out, it’ll be a game changer from an environmental perspective. 2 - Price. Having to spend $500 (early bird pricing) to upgrade my printer isn’t cost efficient when you consider you can buy a proven workhorse like the Bambu A1 Mini for the same price, and now I’ve got two printers. I wish that company the best of luck, but IMHO, if they truly want to be competitive, they need to eliminate waste, and cut the price in half.
Agreed, a $500 price point, still maintians the purge block, forces you to use their entire hotend assembly just so much wrong here! Just be a little bit in touch with your customer base......
I love that the term “poop” has become a standardized word with its own meaning in the 3D printing community to the point that brand reps, critics, reviewers, and journalists use it. ❤
I think it’s cool you can purge to a printed item. Great if you have some functional prints where you don’t care what it looks like. I wonder if you can purge to one model(functional) while printing another model(aesthetic).
Love the idea. But feel as though they need to change the pricing. You can get a bambu labs printer and ams for the same price as just the color system for coprint. Sure you can control other printers from their pad but its not like it adds color to those other printers.
I've been designing a similar system over the past 12 months, only mine is opensource, runs off Klipper and uses enclosed filament boxes so you can print ABS and better with it.
I really like this a lot, and will be buying one or three in the very near future. I have to admit that I am concerned with how the cable seems to be dragging across the edge of the bed. Is there a way to mount this so it does not interfere with the print bed?? I have two printers that I want to use this on, one is an Ender 3 V3 SE, which does not have any 2020 or 2040, how can I attach this to that printer?? My other printer is an Ender 5 Plus, and I'm getting ready to buy a Tronxy 600x600x600 printer, is the cable that connects to the print head long enough to work with large 3D printers?? And lastly, can I upgrade from the BLTouch to a CRTouch??
I just upgraded the system board and the hot-end/extruder of my workhorse Ender 3. But I'd be tempted to just buy a cheapy surplus Ender 3 just to try this out.
Cool setup but seems a bit expensive considering what Bambulabs put out and their pricing. Especially if the Kickstarter is 40% off the final price. I dont see these selling like hotcakes at that price... but cool product and i hope it succeeds.
I'm new to your videos, so I only just saw this one. Kinda glad I missed the kickstarter end date. I might have been sorely tempted to purchase this, and it's not really in my budget right now.
Very good idea! But it seems like the price point is far off. The early kickstarter price is very close to bambulab a1 mini price. They will have to be competitive to survive
Unlikely since the K1 toolhead mounting is so proprietary. But where there’s a will there’s a way. You could definitely reuse the k1 toolhead then feed 4 filaments in.. but as far as I understand the filament cutter is quite important
I think that it will be a lot more popular if it can be compatible with the new context machines, and if they make a way to doy a mount for the 4 colors and the cutter.
I imagine that would be very machine dependant. COREXY machines are very proprietary and are built without a lot of extra space, so fitting extra equipment like the chroma printhead in there would be very difficult. Plus there is the whole matter of electronics, with more COREXY machines using unique firmware with its own CAN or serial interface. Something like a voron machine would be easier to mod with this than something like a Bambu Lab or Creality K1
This looks great... but way too expensive for me. While in Kickstarter, the price is ok, but their projected pricing is just crazy. $650 for the set with a ChromaPad and $490 without... and you still have to supply your own printer, vs $460 for the Bambu Lab A1 mini with AMS. Sure the A1 is only 180x180, but it is way cheaper entry into multi-colour printing. I mean, I'd love to get this instead, and breathe some new life into my old BIQU B1, or even upgrade my K1 to multi-colour, but with the USD at 18.5 to my currency, this is a hard sell. If the prices remain at the Kickstarter Level, then sure, but definitely not at full price.
It’s kind of funny to me that Bambu AMS is so successful that it’s the only multimaterial solution people compare themselves to. Everyone seems to have forgotten about Mosaic Palette, Prusa MMU, etc. I did like how much faster and less-wasteful the Palette was and how it supported things like gradient blending, but the high splice failure rate and being stuck with a cloud slicer made it frustrating overall.
The easiest comparison is to look at what is most common or mainstream. It is the most relatable that way. The palette system did look overcomplicated. Even if the splicing system is 99.5% reliable, that is still a lot of failed prints. Multicolor systems have to be extremely reliable to make any sort of sense as a product. Didn't know about the cloud slicing, that would drive me crazy. This system runs on PRUSASLICER I think,
The first printers I bought (instead of built) were dual head printers that could do two color printing. The novelty wore off for me and it was a hassle. I do functional prints so aesthetics and colors aren't that important to me but I would like to print two different materials such as PETG and TPU. I gotta say that this is one of the best implementations of multi-color printing that I've seen, and it's great that they offer it as an add-on to common printers.
Have you ever used it for doing support interfaces in different materials? Especially for functional prints it would ease off on designing for a supportless print
@@reservoir_flow - One concept would be to 3D print a water soluble support material and run the parts through the washing machine to cleanly remove complex support material. Another idea is to use chemically incompatible materials to make support material much easier to remove. TPU sticks to almost everything to some extent but it sticks to itself best of all. It's very difficult to 3D print a complex TPU part that requires support material and be able to remove the TPU support material from the TPU part. PLA support material would be much easier to remove from a TPU part. I don't recall if I used different support material on the dual print head printers I had. They were the first QIDI 3D printers, and the features looked great for the price, but they were not reliable, the enclosed Cartesian architecture with the X axis hanging from the Y axis inside a close fitting sheet steel enclosure made them very difficult to maintain and repair, and QIDI went out of their way to make their parts proprietary (to the point of soldering the header pins on the opposite side of the open source stepper driver boards to reverse the pinout to make them proprietary) and then QIDI stopped selling replacement parts a year later when they started selling their next 3D printer. I wasted almost $3,000 on those 3D printers.
Wow how did I miss this. Looks promising. That being said this will be great for peoole looking to upgrade an old machine. Personally I already went with the AMS system from BL. I dont see a reason to buy this if you are buying a new machine as well.
I hope its good, I backed this shortly ago. The idea of having multicolor on my Neptune 4 Max is highly appealing. I think its a bit expensive, but the fact its not tied to a machine is pretty cool. We'll see! Fingers crossed!
I was planning to get this with a K1 Max but I decided on just getting a P1S Combo. The amount of tinkering involved both on the K1 and Chromaset may be too much for a beginner like me. Also, I dont have time for experimentation. As opposed to the P1S Combo, which already works as a system. Too bad for me, I would have gotten the volume size I want and MM system to go with it in 1 printer, which is what I can afford right now in my household.
Well, some bad news for you. Unfortunately the P1S is not as easy to use as you may think. You will find that the AMS isn’t very reliable. Various partial solutions to this, but it comes down to minimising the drag that the filament produces going through the quite long path from the spools to the head. First step, when you get the printer, remove the Bowden tube from the print head and straighten out that curve as much as you can. That alone will greatly improve your chances of not having constant AMS problems. Then when you do get issues, start working on the rest of the paths. I have swapped out the tubing with a lower friction variant from the buffer to the print head so far, and will take the AMS apart next to swap out that tubing. (I have only been having problems with less smooth filament after swapping out the tubing, so it’s mostly fixed.) On the other hand, I have found that most filament will adhere to the provided plate without any glue required. Bambu Lab insist that you need to use glue, which is not usually the case. This removes some hassle. I would suggest that you use OrcaSlicer or a Bambu Slicer variant that has calibration tools built in. For each material, run the Pressure Advance test (I use the lines variant) then you take the default setting for the filament and turn PA on. For most of the eSUN PLA+ I found 0.022 to be the best setting. This greatly improves the print quality. Also, I found that eSUN PLA+ works exactly the same as Bambu Lab ‘Tough PLA’, so use that profile as the base. The eSUN PLA+ profile they give you is deliberately crippled. Run the test cube or something functionally similar to check you have the profiles dialled in - the OrcaSlicer test cube is good because it has a threaded part to check dimensional accuracy is OK.
is it just an array of outdated bowden extruders with several Y-joints before heatsink? or is it MMU/ERCF but with sort retraction path like same old multi-extruder with Y-joint?
It’s Bowden extruders with a direct drive extruder in the toolhead. So you get the remote filament control needed to power a Y-joint, but also a direct drive extruder for the benefits of reliability, extrusion speed, etc. but at the increased cost due to all the extra components
@@NathanBuildsRobotsok, i understood. Just missed part at 4:50 where case was opened for demo 😅 One more question. When filament of active line selected and loaded into hotend - both motor of line and extruder are synchronized while printing, right?
Glad to see there is some competition to BambuLabs AMS. Still feel like a 5yr old Mosaic Pallette+ barebones, with no splicing/fusing upfront, but inside the extruder itself. They seemed to have avoided the need of a filament buffer(think BL has a patent on it), by keeping the path shorter. There could be a better way, to use a single motor to switch multiple filaments with some kind of solenoid activated clutch mechanism, instead of needing one stepper for each filament color. Would love to see multicolor AMS system(definitely not from BL, since AMS is a 💸🐄 when it comes to material sales), that eliminates purging altogether, or make it negligible enough to hide in the infill!. Theoretically possible, with an on demand zero thermal mass rapid heater(may be a tiny induction heater, coupled to a steel micro screw extruder (similar to those used in large IM machines), that heats as it melts and moves filament?) having a miniscule meltzone. Great work in bringing us up-todate, with the current trends in the 3d printing industry.❤👍👍
Honestly this thing is exciting, for the price it's not bad at all, especially considering the customization, If it's klipper Open source too, then having a printer with something like an octopus would eliminate extra boards and stuff for the different extruders. Not to mention, I can see this being adapted to use something like the hermitcrab, or hopefully even building in a CAN board to the chromahead. Lots of future here.
They are upgrading to a 4 pin connector for the toolhead, not sure if it’s CAN or serial, but that is something they are going to change before launch.
@@berlinberlin4246i dont think CAN is the right solution for such a universal system, even as a CANbus fan. Canbus is still a rarity among klipper users, so that would require additional hardware to be bought. But every klipper printer has somewhere a usb port, with a small adapter that removes the 5v lead and instead grabs 24v from the psu and an additional ground lead to the psu you can power the toolhead and use a usb protocol for communicating. Its stable enough because every klipper Mainboard uses a usb communication between host and mcu, the only exception would known to me is the k1 which uses a UART connection instead. Sure, if you need an adapter for that why not offer a canbus adapter. The difference is that for the usb way you would only need a breakout board without any electronics on it and you dont need to create a can0 network, so its easier to setup.
I've been looking into canbus a little bit, and I fail to see the draw. Sure less wiring is nice, and would eliminate some (physical) resistance on the toolhead, but to me it seems not worth the complexity and potential trouble for just those gains. If there is more benefit I'd appreciate someone with experience clueing me in. TYIA
I like this system. If it performs like expected, it would be a great alternative to the MMU, AMS, and Mosaic systems. The reduced waste aspect is why I appreciate the Mosaic changer design, but this seems like it would be much more reliable. Did he say what the color change time interval was? Maybe I missed that.
I notice that all 4 colors are sitting ready in the extruder where the built in cutter resides. I'm curious why it takes so long to make the color change.@@NathanBuildsRobots
They seem to be a competitent team, but I do not envy their position. They have a lot to do to get their product to market, and even more to stay competitive in the face of the possible upcoming multi material solutions from Elegoo and Creality. But you don't launch a new product because it is easy!
I was thinking of backing something like this but since its so new.. might be worth a wait.. if it really takes off you will see other manufactures and kickstarters move on this (unless they are already since bambu lab have made 2 of them now) but more stream line and competition is great in this space.
Cool thing is this is actually their second version of this system. I backed the original on Kickstarter, it unfortunately came out just before Bambu showed off their AMS.
It's like a souped up 3d Chameleon - I like the idea. I didn't like the cover, when he took it off it looked much better. Definitely would like to see a smaller cover but it's pretty cool looking otherwise.
Clever, However I not a fan of purge block systems. They waste far too much filament! Better to cut and poop I think, it save allot compared to purging. Plus that head is huge. That's the one thing I seen lately more and more hot end covers for the head are getting way to bulky and big such that it is getting harder to see the printed 1st layer due to the head cover getting in the way? On my Elegoo Neptune 3 Max, it is hard to see the 1st printing layers due to the hot end cover being big and in the view of the 1st layer. And because it's main light is above on the top frame, that just makes it harder as there is a big shadow of the head cover and the Y frame so that the 1st layer is hidden even more by the shadow.
I love my ender 3 S1 Pro with Sonic Pad(Klipper), but it's just a PITA to keep it printing for any amount of time. It can print fine for a week or 2 and then go FUBAR. It's totally random and I cant print on the whole bed cause it's so f'ing warped.
I want the original Co Print, with the seven colors. Why not keep selling it? And why need custom nozzles blocks and stuff like that….? It’s kind of… big and blocky…
Deltas are extremely ambitious. Designing something to fit a bedflinger is easy, you got no space limitations to the front and sides. But a delta is a whole lot different story. You shouldn't go much lower than the stock nozzle, otherwise you loose build volume. You have surround space limitations from the delta arms and those are pretty tight. Just for example, it is impossible to fit any nema17 based extruders to a super racer or v400, a lgx lite is already close to the limit in length and you shouldn't go much wider than a sherpa, especially if you are using bigger than 40x10 fans. Also the variety of different effectors will pose an issue, for example said flsun effectors are very different from a duet smart effector. If they can fit their system to a delta, congrats to them, but im not surprised if it doesn't work.
@@RandomCableCar any hotend would work that way, you just need a splitter before the heatsink. Although a splitter ruins the possibility to print tpu as it can buckle in the meeting area, so there is your tradeoff
I think this will solve the problems with the 3DC, the software will have direct communication with the system, not depend on switch presses, no need for tip shaping or an add on cutter. I have a 3DC that is still waiting on being used as I could never get it to feed correctly let alone the tip shaping
He didn't mention it. The next version, which will be the launch version, will use a 4 pin connector for the toolhead, which means an onboard MCU, so maybe? But probably not.
I think color/material changes on a single tool-head are janky at the least and wasteful at best at this time. I think multi-material for dissolvable supports is amazing, especially if you have multiple hotends. EDIT: Please tell me you're like 6 foot 7. Then that can explain why that guy looks like a Munchkin.
I backed this on the super early bird level, for $300 looks like it might work. I have a 3D Chameleon that I never got to work, this looks like a better soultion
I don't believe in this system. I had high hopes but did not back this kickstarter. Everybody have to make their own opinion of this product but this is not for me.
@@Carnye592they’re trying to find a way to monitize it better. As of now it’s just using sync motor routines to drive two motors and prebuilt routines for loading and unload and such. I literally have this at home self built and sourced. Issue with the maker world, if you make it too simple, everyone will just make it themselves. ERCF kits do well cuz it’s annoying to source everything. I built this one shown with spare parts and an extra ender 3v2 board I had laying around. The only thing they have over me, I use an independent PSU so I don’t stress the one on the printer already.
This looks like a very overcomplicated solution to the multi material problem, adding costly steppers which all need drivers for each material feed, and replacing the whole extruder, a simpler system would achieve all this objectives (even with the reliability in mind)
If I am understanding correctly the steppers on the top mounted extruders are only for loading to the head and unloading out of the head, and don't seem to be used while printing. I think the reason for this is that it will help pull filament out before the cutter comes into play. While it SEEMS like an unreliable solution, it actually should be a significantly MORE reliable system, stepper drivers hardly fail, nor do steppers, and instead of having a weird custom long shaft like the ERCF or MMU, this gives you way more customization options.
Purge block in 2024??? So you made a product that INCLUDES all the negatives that your consumer base DOESN"T want AKA the puge block and it's included material waste? IF you are coming out with new products make them to move 3D printing forward not maintain status quo ! Literally ZERO advantage for this product over a $179 3D chameleon.........On top of it all you have to lock down to Sovol's print head and Sovol's nozzles forever after this "upgrade" this product is a FAIL!
