Chess is used more as a metaphor in this anime than an actual game. If you notice, Lelouch refuses to take a free win and instead moves the king behind a pawn when in danger, revealing a bit about his character.
Smithoid I didn’t hear them telling any rules about the game if it was different then they should have specified who ever made this didn’t know how to play for sure😂
@@sailor7388 that's one way to rationalise it away I guess, but it's clearly a case of the writers not being bothered enough to research the actual game.
@@ashwinramaswamy4059 I mean I'm pretty sure that scheneizel was clearly provoking zero here to take a free win so he can know if he really is prideful or not
+Grimlock His move goes beyond the material chess match, and reveals in the complete chess match of life. He did that ''board-game illegal but fulllife-game legal'' because he wanted to know something more about Zero's personality (Sun Tzu's Art of War explains how much important is knowing your foe before the battle). I think that in this case Shneizel wanted to understand if Zero could accept a given victory, and he couldn't, and this is a sign of pride, an important and useful data about his enemy...
+Simon-peter Williamson actually the game is over after checkmate, unless the king is put in check which is just the king being attacked, checkmate is were the king can move nowhere because there's always a piece attacking it
Lelouch also manifest a pawn that he didn't have on the board previously- sneaking cards up your sleeves is clever, but true masters hide extra chess pieces.
The worst part is that Lelouch could've killed the king with his pawn and said something like "never underestimate the power of your pawns" or something like that
They mean that no one seems to know the rules of chess in this world. 3:51 is an illegal move, it puts your king in check. But that's not even the half of it. If the goal is to take out your opponent's king, black can just take out the white king with the pawn. So if it's not a 'trap to lure out the king', then Lelouch was already in check and he should have moved unless he already lost. On no level does it make sense to put yourself into a double check even if it was allowed.
*Runs into the room screaming and flailing arms* ILLEGAL MOOOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Throws chess board at wall, scattering pieces at the players.*
***** I highly doubt the creators of this show cared about chess that much. It doesn't seem like it's anything more than to show how intelligent the characters are. I mean, if you present a position with a mate in 3/4 and call it impossible to win, you obviously didn't do any research for you can just take a played game which is known for such a turn of tides. Furthermore, when you're using chess the way they did, so showing the positions so the viewer could analyse it, it's very likely you're going to use the best known chess rules, for those rules are the ones most of your viewers are going to be familiar with.
***** Putting your king in check is illegal because you may as well surrender. There is no point to putting your king in check. Do you know that chess is turn-based? Do you know that you can only make one move per turn? So what happens when you put your king in check? Well, that is the end of your turn. Now your opponent calls checkmate and wins. There is no strategy, there's no counter, you just lose. Are you starting to see the how illogical it is? Are you starting to see how stupid you and this scene are? If Lelouch won, then he gets to remove Suzaku from the room and geass everyone just as he apparently had planned. For some reason, he forgot about his objective. Code Geass has plenty of epic and brilliant scenes. This... this is not one of them.
It was an intentional illegal move. Schneizel was testing Zero's character. What Zero does next says a lot about him. He had three choices: 1) Take Schneizel's king and win the game, but also giving in to his intention. Zero has too much pride for this. 2) Back down. This was the option Zero picked but it also suggests hesitation and a lack of willpower to win. 3) Call Schneizel out for the illegal move. Complaining could make Zero seem petty which also hurts his pride. It also carries all the downside of the backing down option.
Revan Sith'ari Zero would be giving into Schneizel's intent by taking his king, weakening the win and hurting his pride. Zero wants to crush his opponents and is insulted by the cheap win.
+Zero Yes, you can either play until you or your opponent can't make a move with the king and lose the game, you can't make stupid mistakes like giving your opponent the king. Another game is to play until the king actually gets taken out (eaten) and this could be done by a stupid mistake.
Yikes. The funniest part is that in the position shown on the board, there are no legal king moves for black, yet it somehow makes a point of having Lelouch start with a king move.
Maybe the other guy used up like 2 min per each move... xD Though I'm sort of wondering if they didn't ask someone for a situation that'd be hard to win, and then just got mixed up with who's in difficulty...
@@tuulikannel there is literally no way for white to escape forced mate if black notices it and plays it immediately, which he apparently did since lelouch moved his king first it's clear he opened the way to line a battery on the H file with the room and queen, this game is a bad example even if they switched colors, it's either impossible or mate in 4
"You know Zero, I used to play chess with my brother, Lelouch." "Really?" "Yes, I'd cheat all the time and he'd think it was a legitimate tactic. It always drove him nuts."
Breaking the rules of chess. This is how I see it. Schneizel wanted to have some fun and learn more about Zero so he place the king into check. If Lelouch decided to take the king right there, Schneizel would think that Zero would take any means necessarily to win even if the match was purposefully thrown to gain an advantage. The fact that Zero took his king back meant that Zero wanted to win fairly and beat him when Schneizel gave it his all. Not some game that Schneizel threw on a whim.
What's really rather interesting is that in the original dub Lelouch wins in 8 minutes and 40 seconds. Supposing he uses the full 20 seconds for each move Lelouch takes 26 turns to win, the exact number of episodes in R1.
+Edo Nagori Yeah, I would have been like. "Oh, you're just handing me victory like that? Okay. What, you thought I wouldn't take it? Too bad, I win, give me Suzaku."
I feel like that had to be intentional. Some sort of foreshadowing maybe. The two kings duking it out, but in the end, a pawn is able to attain victory.
+Edo Nagori His move goes beyond the material chess match, and reveals in the complete chess match of life. He did that ''board-game illegal but fulllife-game legal'' because he wanted to know something more about Zero's personality (Sun Tzu's Art of War explains how much important is knowing your foe before the battle). I think that in this case Shneizel wanted to understand if Zero could accept a given victory, and he couldn't, and this is a sign of pride, an important and useful data about his enemy...
"You can't win this, it's imposible" 1. Move the King to the right 2. Move the Tower/Rook all the way to the left corner 3. Proceed with the Queen 4. ? 5. Profit I suppose our beloved Lulu overestimated the noble.
+Gods Don't Talk I thought the same, but in this scheme you don't think about what the NOBLE could do... Let's use A for Lelouch and B for the noble: 1A. Move the King to the right. 1B. Let's consider that the noble is not smart enough to suspect something, so he just for example take the pawn near the Tower/Rook. 2A. The Tower/Rook is in danger, and according to the plan, he moves it all the way to the left corner. 2B. Even an IDIOT would see the coming strike to the King from the Queen protected by the Tower/Rook at this point (Noble's thoughts: ''why he moved it all the way to the left corner instead of less? Because it protects the Queen now, and the precedent move of the King is now explained too.'' Also, in a situation like that, the obvious escape is capturing the enemy King so probably the Noble would MADLY watch over his King). So the noble moves his King one square to the left. BUT... the plan would still work :) it's too late, he should have done it before. That's why: Lelouch ignores the enemy's last move and proceeds with the Queen, the noble would just hope to move his King between his pawn and his Queen, but SURPRISE, Lelouch's pawn controls that square. Aaaaaaaaaand the noble is fucked.
It's simple, proceed with Knight first, no matter what, have him move his knight from that position or exchange it with your own, proceed to checkmate with queen protected by your own pawn. Hence mate in 4.
Everyone complains about the Schneizel/Zero, but I think I get it. Schneizel can't abide losing. If he isn't sure he'll win, he won't fight or play. He sees that he isn't going to win, so Schneizel changes the rules--he stops playing a game of chess against Lelouch, and starts playing a game of reputation. The pieces are the audience now, not kings and rooks and bishops. If Lelouch takes Schneizel's king, Schneizel sits back and smirks, because he made Lelouch do what he wanted to do--and he makes sure everyone in the room knows it. If Lelouch retreats, Zero comes off as weaker and indecisive. If Lelouch points out that it's against the rules of chess to move a king into check, Schneizel gives him a condescending smile and wonders aloud at how he was surprised that Zero didn't notice that they had moved past a silly game and into metaphorical warfare--Zero comes off as simple and petty. It's a psychological trap that doesn't have any good openings for Lelouch to escape.
I have a pretty good escape: Zero: *stands up abruptly* "I didn't take the renowned prince of Britannia to be a person unable of following any rules. Perhaps the prince is more interested in playing mind games instead? I will have yet another proper chess match soon... once Prince Schneizel decides to take me more seriously as an opponent." *leaves* By saying Schneizel doesn't follow any rules, one can create ad hominem; forcing the audience to see your opponent the way you want them to see him/her. There are better ways Lelouch could have handled the situation to his advantage.
Khanh Nguyen I think that would’ve been the best option. Lelouch realizes the trap a wee bit too late, but he still has that pawn. If he takes the king with the pawn, Schneizel would have been portrayed as incompetent and careless. Schneizel would have to give Suzaku up and then Schneizel would have no reason to laugh. He just lost a chess match to a mind-numbingly simple move, had to give up the knight of seven to the most dangerous criminal in Britannia’s history, and all for a joke that completely backfired on him.
a name If any thing, he only make lelouch (zero) the most competent leader being able to use his environment and his soilder to the best of his ability.
If you carefully analyze the game betwen lelouch and schnizel, you'll notice pieces warping in and out and game rules getting busted. Don't be surprised it's typical Britannian Chess
@@eggboyhero3176 k I guess that settles that, I still prefer the king cant be checked by pawns house rule cause it adds a little more challenge but thanks for informing me.
@meo verneuil No you dumb shit, the objective of chess is to trap the king in an unwinnable scenario. You can't "kill" it. If you put the enemy king in risk, you have to call 'check', and the oponent is forced to take the king out of check. Doing any other move ignoring the check is against the rules, and if he insist in doing so can only be taken as surrendering.
Actual chess: illegal moves are where your own king could be captured on the opponents next move. Code Geass: fuck it. It's not guaranteed they will notice they can capture your king which would end the game.
They do,u know they adapted chess into shogi.Also the game stopped the moment shnizel moved the king near Zero's king.Thats why odisius said shnizel was forfeiting,just like everyone else did.
@@pokemasterx4244 True; however, if not so, you would risk betrayal. The king should in fact be an example for his subordinates, courageously participating in battle on the front lines, in order to motivate them to follow him and do their best, even by sacrificing themselves (which is what Julius Caesar believed). As Machiavelli wrote in his "De principatibus", no army is efficient, without loyalty to its leader.
I don't get why people question the chess scenes in Code Geass when it could all be easily justified in-universe that the chess they developed had slightly different rules and extra nuances than the chess we grew up playing.
It might be possible to think that, if the rule in question wasn't ridiculous. Moving your king into check, if allowed, would always result in immediate loss.
The chess that nobility play in Code Geass is exactly the same as normal chess, except you have to actually capture the enemy king to win. No checking, just capture the king. Even if it had been an illegal move, you can still move however you want when you're forfeiting. Schneizel would have made an illegal move, and if Lelouch called him out on it then Schneizel would have lost, which is exactly what he was trying to do (and what Lelouch was trying to avoid). So Lelouch would have continued to play regardless.
1:27 One thing I don’t think enough people appreciate enough, probably because this is so early in the series that you don’t know the significance of it, is that Lelouch is letting a lot of his true self shine through to Rivalz here, and we can infer that this is normal before the plot starts happening. Lelouch ultimately is just a person, and even he could not close himself entirely. I believe that before he used these games he played with Rivalz as his outlet to be more like his self. It is specifically mentioned that he stopped playing these games after he started acting as Zero, “Playing another type of game.” After he was able to start working to his actual goal, he didn’t need this outlet anymore so he stopped. But he also started to mask his true self a lot more because of the extra secrecy he needed now that he was actually perusing his true goal. But anyway, just the fact that he was voicing his true opinions here shows that he trusted Rivalz, along with the rest of his friends at school, a lot more than shows on the surface
I don't think you all really understand that king move. Schniezel wanted to understand the identity of Zero, remember he played Lelouch at chess as a kid - he may have already had suspicions as to whom Zero was. I think it was a test: If Lelouch had captured the king, he would have won but Schniezel could also indicate that it was Lelouch behind the mask (since they used to play as children - I imagine the child version of Lelouch would have made that move). This was more then just a 'chess' game, both of the players had more than just an intention to win - that's also why Lelouch was irritated at the end. He could have won but that means losing his identity (or atleast giving Schniezel a stronger indication as to whom it was - either way Schniezel won this since he still 'learned about Zero' although Lelouch gets him back with his 'checkmate' ;p)
No, it wasn't like that at all, because then Lelouch continued with the game. Nothing about chess in this anime makes sense. There's no reason to argue about it: we all understand the plot, and it doesn't ruin this wonderful anime for any of us. But the creators simply didn't understand chess, and certainly didn't understand chess strategy.
actually in the first position moving the king first is indeed the best move,in order to get out of the knights's checks..and as i can see black has a mating net going on..The other positions are not clear
"Oh no! If I move my king then I'll get humiliated that I killed his king!" Pawn: "Am I a joke to you?" Reality: "This dude doesnt know how to play chess wahahaha"
Lol it's best not to analyze these anime chess games too much. It'd be better if you didn't know how to play chess at all and just listened to the dialogue to get a feeling for who's winning and what the storyteller's intentions are. Lol Zero goes from having 3 pieces at 3:20 to 7 pieces at 4:05. (It looks like 6 pieces but there's a pawn hidden behind the king based on 4:08). And most importantly, you can't put your own king in check so white's final move was illegal.
Actually... it's a completely legal move. Just not in the variant we play today. There are dozens of types of chess, with different rules. Every move made is completely legal, and makes sense in the context of the story, assuming it's just a different variant. As for the pieces, that's an animation error, and nothing more.
***** Yeah i believe they played an old variant. Not so popular though and to bad that it isn't like that today. Because in the old variant the queen could move only one space any direction too and it was legal to put your king in check i think.
KiraAMVS Oh definitely. At my chess club, we'll often look up random old variants of chess, and play them instead. In fact, we play bughouse chess almost more than standard ^^;;
+realitywarper93 His move goes beyond the material chess match, and reveals in the complete chess match of life. He did that ''board-game illegal but fulllife-game legal'' because he wanted to know something more about Zero's personality (Sun Tzu's Art of War explains how much important is knowing your foe before the battle). I think that in this case Shneizel wanted to understand if Zero could accept a given victory, and he couldn't, and this is a sign of pride, an important and useful data about his enemy...
That would be believable if the rule he bent wasn't so absurd. Even if that illegal move was okay moving your king into check will always result in you losing So it's absurd to do even in Geass universe
i think people are forgetting the point of this game is to show that schneizel will risk losing the game/the damocles if it means he can figure out zero/blow up the damocles with lelouch inside.
Everyone knows that it's supposed to be thematic only, and sure Schnizel's last move which was literally illegal proved that, but they could've at least source their games from the insane amount of chess database accessible at the time.
I was probably 12 when i saw this, and even now I'm still wondering who the hell allowed this to happen? Are they seriously telling us that between the Manga Studio, Animation Studio and localisation teams for this anime, NONE of them knew how to play chess?
I'm still wondering how the hell a lot of people like you still exist. This isn't a chess game, it's a mind game and test of ideals and identity, atleast for one of them. It's really not hard to understand.
Playing with the king on the second move is actually theory, many grandmasters like Magnus Carlsen and Hikaru Nakamura play it. It's actually called the 'Bongcloud'.
That starting position for the first game was ridiculous, but black actually had the clear advantage and had mate in four moves, meaning it shouldn't have taken even nine minutes, though Black was correct to first move the king, as it would provide the fastest checkmate. For the second game, I don't know what threefold repetition would be. White can take Black's rook by moving to Nd5+, forking the rook and king, making mating fairly easy at that point. The idea of having Zero "reveal" any aspect of himself by making an illegal move, (or a move that would allow Zero to capture the king), is asinine. The show's writing is on par with the writers' understanding of chess. Anybody who insists on reading something particularly deep in the absurdity of putting the king in check should keep in mind how ignorant the writers were of chess rules. Constructing a situation where one side either faces inevitable checkmate or forcing a draw isn't that difficult, (a Grandmaster could have provided such a scenario in minutes), but it shows how much contempt the writers had for consistency. Furthermore, there's a lack of continuity between scenes, with at 3:21, there being no pawn on Black's right side, and then there suddenly being one at 3:32, and the rook has suddenly disappeared at 3:36. And then, there's immediately in the next move, there's a pawn to the right of the king at 3:51 which appeared out of nowhere. Basically, the combination of the absurd chess moves, the illogical motives, and the lack of continuity between succeeding scenes can be summed up as the writers not caring making little attempt to hide it.
***** Yes you're right, I mistook the pawn for a bishop. However, because we are watching from black's point of view, the square we're talking about would be a1.
computo2000 I don't think that's correct. You determine the unique coordinate pair that identifies each square by looking from White's point of view. "The vertical columns of squares (called files) from White's left (the queenside) to his or her right (the kingside) are labeled a through h. The horizontal rows of squares (called ranks) are numbered 1 to 8 starting from White's side of the board. Thus each square has a unique identification of file letter followed by rank number. (For example, White's king starts the game on square e1; Black's knight on b8 can move to open squares a6 or c6.)"
Old thread is old but you have to remember: Chess is sued in this anime. This is not a chess anime. There is a difference. There is something deep here and it's nice to see when you're not bogged down by details (like that extra pawn coming out of nowhere)
That moment when I see my past comments. And that Pawn is still there. waiting... ever lingering... Waiting for the time to strike... *Nope, I'm just going to move my king back in fear, it's not like I'm the most Feared and Respected Terrorist in the fucking world or anything. Leave me alone, I'm a fucking Teenager.* XDD
I feel like all the dead grandmasters are rolling in their graves. Even I'm going crazy over that stupid move, whether illegal or for the plot. Keep the game of chess how it is so people don't misinterpret how things work in it
