I really hope the eventual Emperors Children release will bring back Doomrider. A modern sculpt could look so badass that even the people who hate when 40k gets silly wont notice just *how* silly doomrider really is.
Unfortunately he is currently dead-ish in the lore. Korsarro Khan took his head and I believe it's his head being carried by the model. The head is still alive though.
@@TheDirtysouthfanThough, doomrider is a daemon prince, so I don't think it would be much of a stretch for him to just come back. Hell, they could go even more fun with it and give him a flaming skull for a new head if they wanted to be extra weird with it
@@TheDirtysouthfanthey should do a headless motorcycle rider, then. Give him a ghostly flame head and say his body is looking for him. Now 40k gets both a headless horseman AND doomrider, in a single package!
I've found the complete ritual right here: The sirens are screaming and the fires are howling Way down in the valley tonight There's a man in the shadows with a gun in his eye And a blade shining oh so bright There's evil in the air and there's thunder in sky And a killer's on the bloodshot streets Oh, and down in the tunnel where the deadly are rising Oh, I swear I saw a young boy down in the gutter He was starting to foam in the heat
Ahriman's lesser offences are 89% overdue books return fines, 9% local council planning permission violations (mostly for non Euclidean geometric architecture meaning that proper access to the property wasn't possible and that the sightlines for neighbours were obscured depending on the mood of the observer at the time) and 3% not cleaning up after his dog after it defecated on the pavement.
@@nerag7459 suprisingly he does clean up after the disc, he’s militaristic about it. But his Yorkshire Terrier “Pinkie”, no matter how many signs they put up in the neighbourhood still does it’s business freely and he won’t pick it up. Residents have commented that the dog mess does look a bit… dry and slightly dusty.
@@forthrightgambitia1032 yeah. Necron book was a good 'un. I think I prefer them as the unknowable cosmic horror than their current iteration, but do understand that that niche is already filled by the 'nids (who do it better tbh). 3rd ed was fucking great. GW as a whole was during that period. 6th edition fantasy, Epic Armageddon, Warmaster, Gorkamorka, BFG, Mordheim, Inquisitor...what a fucking TIME.
Both lost legions were originally supposed to be around during the Heresy. That's the reason old books say 'almost half' of the legions rebelled during the Heresy, whereas newer books say 'a full half'. Notice that in background material released before the Horus Heresy novel trilogy, legion listings marked II and XI as 'all records expunged after the Horus Heresy'. Heresy was supposed to be this mythical prehistory that's never expanded upon so it was a safe spot to put the lost legions debacle and keep them mysterious. But when they did start expanding upon it and releasing the books, they had to soft retcon the lost legions to be lost even further back, to avoid having to explain them, and creating an awkward situation where it kinda necessitates ANOTHER and completely separate super-betrayal event EVEN FURTHER back in the past, that's somehow EVEN WORSE than the Horus Heresy since the Heresy didn't result in such stringent record burying and mind wiping.
Not really though. The lost Primarchs could have beem erased because their betrayal was not so massive and its impact not so lasting as the Heresy. I mean, even if they could erase all the records of it (which, without the Emperor and Malcador might have been impossible) but doing so would be a very stupid idea given that the traitors in good part were still very much alive.
The original 1989 Space Marine rulebook stated that 3 chapters (it predated the common terminology of calling the first founding legions rather than chapters) were wiped out at the Drop Site Massacre and purged from Imperial records, it's the earliest example I know of of something that could have evolved into the two lost legions of today. The same rulebook identified 17 of the 18 first founding chapters/legions we know today as having fought in the Heresy (the Raven Guard are not mentioned), which seems to match up with the 3 chapters lost at the drop site massacre not having fought in the rest of the Heresy - i.e. at this point neither the Salamanders nor the Iron Hands were amongst those destroyed chapters.
Yeah, the impression I get is that the Imperium was able to eradicate 2nd and 11th and successfully condemn them to damnatio memoriae because they both "rebelled" individually - they could just sic Space Wolves on them, absorb any holdovers into Ultramarines, organize a records purge and some mindwipings, and call it a day. During Heresy we saw multiple Legions betray the Imperium at once, Chaos got involved and disrupted both the information flow and space transit, and in the aftermath of the conflict Malcador was dead-dead, Emperor was effectively dead, survivors on both sides were scattered, and any attempt the Imperium has made to erase or seal away the records about Traitor Legions were nullified by their re-emergence about 1000 years after the Heresy anyway.
it could also be interpreted as the massive propaganda/info control the Imperium had during these years several times throughout the book series we saw how they were able to completely wipe the record on things, from civilizations, full species (like the Rangdan) and such furthermore the Imperium created this mentality of both Primarch and Legion infallibility, this the idea Primarchs had fights was sidestepped with honor duels and two full legions could be erased with relative impunity, I mean they erased 20 thunder warrior legions before, they did it again
The interesting this about this quote is that it seems to be the mirror of this Imperium quote from 1998's _Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness_ , attributed to the First Book of Indoctrinations: "The weak will always be led by the strong. Where the strong see purpose and act, the weak follow; where the strong cry out against fate, the weak bow their heads and succumb. There are many who are weak; and many are their temptations. Despise the weak for they shall flock to the call of the Daemon and the Renegade. Pity them not and scorn their cries of innocence - it is better that one hundred innocently fall before the wrath of the Emperor than one kneels before the Daemon." I like the irony of it, in that the Imperium quote and the Chaos quote, while providing different rationalisations, both come to the same idea. Really shows that there are no good guys in 40k.
Note how the Chaos quote refers to pure might makes right, so to the Nazi ideology of social Darwinism, the Imperial quote refers to strength of will/faith. Chaos wants to turn the world into a nightmarish place where competition for survival and power reaches it's most vilest forms while the Imperium is trying to preserve the structure that prevents it. It's clearly seen in the contrast between "cry out against fate" vs. "make their own fate". In the Imperial version you don't need to actually be strong enough to defeat Chaos Space Marines and similar, you merely need to be opposed to them. This includes getting martyred.
"Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower." Oh, I remember my 3rd edition Eldar codex. That art got me into Eldar back then, as a little baby teenager.
Yeah, I really miss when 40k was a creative game where you were encouraged to make something unique. HH still has a bunch of wargear customabillity, but they lack the fun madness of early to middle 40k editions
I remember bringing this codex into my local GW store to prove to the store owner Chaos could take Cypher in their army because no one believed me. Great memories =D
I don't really like the HH novels that much (I'd prefer that era to be a big mythical mystery, personally) but one thing I appreciate is the elaboration that what made a lot of marines turn traitor was this idea of an Astartes warrior-caste superiority. I can appreciate that philosophy, in the abstract. They wanted the Imperium to be their feudal realm, where the Astartes made up a kind of aristocratic nobility above the baseline humans. It's as good a villain motivation as anything. Also, I like the "smoothness" of the marine on the cover. It implies that his head is almost always inside the controlled environment of the helmet, growing pallid and parchment-like. Neat.
@@justwannabehappy6735 I thought I was the only one! I hated how the real life authors seemed to have eaten up in universe Imperial Propaganda. If the Emperor actually is as powerful as his followers believe, possibly moreso, then the setting is less interesting. The Emperor is turned into a Batman-like caricature. He knows everything, he's planned everything in advance and he's super powerful. Even in 40k they started doing this. It used to be a fun mystery of the lore over whether the Emperor was alive or not, and it seemed like it's possible if not likely that he was in fact dead. Now they basically confirmed he's not only alive, but he's talking with the Custodes and Gulliman, and he's able to project himself across the universe. Gulliman remarks he's even more powerful than ever. I also greatly dislike the almost petty reasons the Legions turn traitor. The Iron Warriors betray the Emperor because they felt disrespected and didn't get enough credit? The World Eaters because their Primarch didn't get to die fighting? The only one which seemed justified was Lorgar and the Word Bearers, but in a universe with pretty serious politics these guys just seem to be motivated by petty feuds. In the end I don't blame them, because this is what the 40k fanbase seems to want and the books get eaten up, but I just wish it still had the mysterious 1984 feel back in the 3rd-4th where things were purposefully vague or hidden.
The Chaos player in my club did up a CSM army for this codex with all the spikes filed off and replaced by trimmed needles splattered with red paint. These were regularly sharpened and re-splattered. I'm pretty sure he didn't want anyone else touching his kit. I'd really like to see you cover the 2nd ed Chaos book, as it's the one 2nd ed codex I never got a chance to look at.
I still have my Doom Rider. I only got to use him once! I'm currently in the process of repainting him, but he's backlogged thanks to me _also_ renovating my old Chaos Space Marines. I'm feeling oddly nostalgic now. Also, the old Chaos Dreadnought hits so hard. Helbrutes and the current Dreadnoughts just don't have that silhouette, you know?
It seems there's some lore floating around about Doomrider being decapitated and his still-living head taken as a trophy by the White Scars - but I have it on good authority that he escaped by chewing one of his teeth into the shape of a D6 and spitting it out to roll a 1 and vanishing.
You two are looking much happier now, I am glad to see it. Love the video, always loved that chaos codex but the one after is the golden age of.... chaos
It was a time of "fun over functionality" mindset at GW. Wish they would bring back some of that zaniness back to 40k now with their current ( and exceptional) rules writers.
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 Absolutely!!! Every game was fun above all else back then and every army felt very unique 😊 Even if you got your butt handed to you, there were usually a bunch of funny or memorable moments 😊 Nowadays, the game just feels very bland and boring (I.e. you play all shooting armies the same way and you always just take the best units rather than the coolest ones) 🥱
My best ever "that guy" story involves having to go into the shop, buy a metal blister of Squig Herders, and provide my opponent with a squig because otherwise he refused to accept that this was the fate of Kaldor Draigo.
Oh, great, now I've got the theme music to the short-lived 1999 Hanna-Barbera cartoon series, "Dooomrider!!!" stuck in my head. "Doomrider!!! [power cord] Rider of Doom!!!"
Axe of Khorne with a bit of luck was amazing against power armor elite units like the Blood Angels' Honor Guard and Death Company. A peculiar unit was the Veterans. While the loyalists had scouts (the novices) with infiltration rules, CSMs had veterans. They had 2 heavy or 2 specials per units, which was compensated by the Havocs being able to deploy only 3 heavy weapon marines instead of 4. These little things, alongside with Bikes being the assault squads alongside Berzerkers, made each faction familiar but different with no need for a whole tome of rules. They HAD a different gameplay.
_"I think this line means they fell to Chaos mostly via the medium of 'edging'..."_ x3 This is why I love this channel. But hey, that's how you know it's really started! You listen to a few rock n' roll cassette tapes, get peer pressured into smoking, drink too many energy drinks, and before you know it the Four Aspects have brought your wayward soul into their clutches. Which given what life in the Imperium is like for the average person, doesn't seem _so_ bad.
I really would love to see a Part 2 of this that goes into the Second 3rd Edition Chaos Codex as that Codex was so good, it made all other armies look bad, The only way i can describe the Second Third edition codex was that they took the Herohammer aspect of 2nd edition and brought it to third edition warhammer 40k, it was insane how customizable a chaos lord , Daemon prince, retinue or the chosen were, The Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children were very, very strong, the other Legions were not far behind in power level. You could literally have a massive army of firepower and a Daemon prince or chaos lord that could kill even Hive Tyrants in close combat,(after your army with four heavy support shot wiped out more your enemies army in the first two turns) If you played Iron Warriors you could do this. If you played Emperor's Children your opponents (who were often space marines) would get -1 intiative due to the mark of Slannesh. Leading to dominance in close combat. It was a great codex and felt a lot like the Second edition codex:Chaos, I only wish all the other 40k armies had gotten a codex like the Second 3rd edition Chaos codex so it would have been on a more even playing field, instead in the next codex chaos(4th edition) got nerfed into oblivion.
My favourite chaos legion is the hacks. The much maligned, often forgotten, recently made up warband devoted to Kackle the demiurge of comedy. Running hither and yon over the chaos wastelands, their rubber chickens and tired jokes about what one cannot say anymore psychically damaging all who hear them.
It’s pretty interesting to see that at this point thousand sons seem to be pretty much formed as what we know them as now, barring their use of inferno-bolters and a lack of psychic rules
OK, I remember that there was a quote where a well educated imperial citizen was under the impression that Lorgar was loyalist. This belief may be widespread, given the Primark’s importance in the creation of the Imperial Cult. That could explain why a source would not realize that the split of traitor and loyalist legions was 9 to 9.
I know it's been a while since this video came out so it's likely no one will see this, and someone may have already said this that I didn't see, but the line that "almost half" of the legions fell to Chaos and the fact that the Word Bearers are mysteriously absent from the breakdown of the traitor legions may actually be outright intentional. This is because the Ecclesiarchy's basically bible, the Lectitio Divinitatus, was written by Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers, and thus their existence, or at least their treachery, is generally kept out of Imperial records on purpose by those who know of it.
One of the first GW books I had! Another retcon intepretation of the 'almost half of the legions turned' fluff could be that not *all* the marines of the Traitor Legions turned. At this point the fluff hadn't really talked about this except some vague references about Isstvan III but a few years later the Index Astartes started talking about Garro etc. And Eventually the Horus Heresy series mentioned bands of thrown off Space Marines who didn't turn with their legion. Cultists got a Codex Approved entry pretty soon after this from what I remember to appease those who had the old models from what I am guessing was Rogue Trader.
I haven't played Warhammer in 22 years and this was the only book I ever owned. After watching this I'm compelled to dig it out along with my half assembled Khârn model and pick up where I left off.
I remember this codex well. I started playing in my twenties with the 3rd edition Space Marines codex, and few of my friends were using Chaos Marines. I didn't know all the subtleties of the lore at the time, so i jut loved the fact that they were the evil and twisted version of the imperial marines. Also remember that lots of my friends complained how you could not give a 4+ invulnerable save to your characters. There was no "chaos Iron Halo", meaning the most common causes of death ot their HQ was "power fist in the face" 😂
5:13 I just want to take a moment to point out that I notice tiny little sounds like that, and I _dearly_ appreciate them. Every little audio cue that's timed to match up with what's going on satisfies me to no end, especially when it sounds like it's from a Mario game.
Just a note: If I remember the 3rd ed rules correctly, a wounds allocated in Close Combat could not be beyond 2" of the model that caused it, so the "in theory the single lord rolling 6's consecutively wiping out an entire squad of gaunts" is even less likely. Still fun thought experiment though.
Chaos was my first codex. The artwork of the Obliterators in their unit entry margin sold me on the game. I was forever upset I never got a power armored Iron Warrior with a Demolisher Cannon in his chest.
I remember reading in White Dwarf that Doomrider didn't even have the mark of Slaanesh. They admitted that this codex had several mistakes when it went to print, that was one of the reasons they changed it.
You ever notice how 40k fits very well as what happens after Doctor Who and that the Eldar are just Time Lords? There are cyclical references/parralels. It also explains any changes/inconstencies between Editions and such. It's all because of Rassilon's meddling. Heck, when Rassilon "died" he got hooked up to the Matrix in such a strikingly similar way to The Emperor and his Golden Throne. Kaleds are a proto-Imperium as well. Dark Age of Technology = Doctow Who. :D
Saving for later tonight, but had to comment. This was my first Chaos codex, way back when and I was doing Iron Warriors. That art is so good, so nostalgic already.
I love these retrospectives. I was not playing or collecting 40K at the time, but the variety of fluff options must have been exciting for Chaos players. I have an unpainted SM bike, just the thing for a DOOMRIDER mount. I can hear the capital letters in the name :)
Great video. I was playing 4th edition for the last two years and fought the World Eaters using 3.5 book. It was no good that I am planning to build a chaos army for my own
The codex I've used the most. I've had all the weird stuff that can happen in it. Greater daemons possessing lords who cost more points than than they do. A khorne berserker champion scoring 13 hits with an axe of khorne. Possessed gettin power weapons and a 3+ invulnerable save with +1A. Good times. Bikes were rubbish back then and raptors again over pointed but otherwise great army. Chaos cultists were added in a WD article. I left school around the time the 3.5 codex came out so didn't get to play much after that due to work. So the 3 years this was out was really my 40k prime.
I appreciate that Wib thought he should 'goth' himself up a bit for the episode and put on black nailpolish, but that Snipe was like "Neh, I'm already there. In fact, you know what?, I'm going to wear an alt-LBT/Pokemon shirt."
Great books and a fun video again,still got my plastic chaos marines in my black legion army and about another 12 somewhere undercoated ready to finish.
"Ask us about any of our armies in 10th Edition [regarding how GW always removes fun themed lists each edition]" Okay! Consider this an open invitation to respond to this comment and just go off on your grievances.
Until they get back to you with their grievances, I'll note that 3rd edition had three Ork lists (Orks, Speed Freeks in Codex: Armageddon, and Ferals from Chapter Approved). Now we have one, and a bunch of the units last having rules in those books haven't reappeared.
I think for 10th they mean that a lot of SM models no longer have rules in the codex. AFAIK other factions didn't really lose any units in the transition, and SM lost a ton, from Land Speeders to Assault Marines.
This was my first codex ❤ There's certainly some nostalgia here, but fluff/atmosphere wise it's still my favourite (2nd ed would probably get the first place but alas I started in 3rd ed). There was much more room for exploration, a less "serious" and fixed background - yes HH some novels are fun but I preferred the chance to have some bits here and feel free to explore from that. My legion of choice was Night Lords, purely based on colour scheme since there was little info on them, and they still are my 40k army. I also built a berzerkers army which was my main thing until 3.5, when NL took definitley over. In 3.0 we usually played 2 vs 1 games of Berzerkers and Emperor Children allied against the Eldar. We usually got erased until chaos cultists appeared in some White Dwarf and we finally stood a chance using them as decoys. It was SUPER fun back then. 3.5 chaos marines codex was better, stronger, more complex and whatever but the pure fun of 3.0 with some chapter approved tweaks is where my best 40k days lie
Hated 3rd edition when it came out as the points had been halved, but by the gods it was the quickest and simplest edition of 40k ever and I've grown to love it
3:00 Maybe it is accurate? The traitors first had to cull their own ranks before backstabbing the other legions. There were still traitor-legion marines who sided with the Emperor as well as loyal-legion marines who sided with Horus. Numberswise, the loyalists had more. Hence why Horus had to put the Ultramarines out of reach for example.
Love these older looks at 40k. The last I played was 3rd edition. Mainly eldar, marines and started a small chaos army. Gone back to being interested in the lore and stories for about a year now and have been tempted to collect again. It's just moved so much since I was a kid I find it overwhelming. Plus I wanna play a new faction but don't like the aesthetics of any others lol, although the sisters are becoming quite appealing if not expensive... Is great to reminisce about the good ol' days though.
A Khorne Lord on Jugger, with 2 CCWs had 7 attacks on the charge. It didn't say you couldn't mastercraft an axe of Khorne, so with spikey bits, you'd have 2 rerolls. I got a lot of 6s...
