I remember when the current spawn model came out, they were odd. Their usefulness was entirely up to the dice, and people tended to shoot them because they looked imposing rather than being dangerous
@@TheharshMoon feel that man. Spikes are evil. When I was painting Angron, it slipped out of my hands a little bit and jammed the hooked spike of Samni'arius under my thumb nail with considerable force. That was an experience.
@@yhormthemidget When I built my Kytan, I dropped one of the legs I just assembled and when I reflexively caught it, the spikes dug into my hand and drew some blood. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, I guess.
My theory about Lord Discordant is that GW sold SO many of these models in 8th and 9th, they figure everyone's got one. They made him mediocre so players will buy something else and use that instead.😅
One note with the master of executions is that he pairs extremely well with legionaries, they already get reroll wounds on objectives and then as long as you chip a wound or model off of a unit, the MoE will give them reroll hits as well. A unit of legionaries with an MoE in renegade raiders is extremely efficient as an objective taker. The precision with the full rerolls makes the MoE actually scary into most characters well, does about 8 dmg on average into most characters without a FNP.
Man, the porn bots are really getting bad here… on the topic though. It’s sad seeing the heldrake being universally bad for any variety of CSM. They look so damn cool, but have no real use for their price point
yeah GW does not want aircrafts to be good or else people would spam them and the game would be pretty boring. Even tho they just need to make it somewhat good and just limit the number of aircraft we can take in an army =/
I just bought the Combat Patrol: Chaos Space Marines box and Datacards, came home to watch this less than 10 minutes after sitting down at my computer. I love this channel!
20:15 Hey hey there, boys and girls, it's ya boy Lucius, and today we're going to be talking about how fucking old and out of date my model looks! I'm so fucking past my prime that even the Blood Angels characters are getting updated before me!
CSM players are eating good. I'm pleased the super basic old skool types are good. Legionaries and a Lord in a Rhino, backed up with Cultists are close to the best units to field, and what CSM army doesn't have them? Daemon Princes and Bikes ok - you can genuinely field a retro 2nd, 3rd edition list and win.
I have a silly list to try next week, 3 nurglings deploy 9 away from enemy deploy, 3x 20 cultists behind them, 3x 10 legionaries behind those all infiltrated with the detachment, scout some accursed and you have a flood of screens 😂 some preds and other nasties at the back should be funny
@@chaosclg thanks for the idea! I’m completely knew to chaos but I’ve got GSC, Ad Mech, and sisters. This edition has been rough for me so far lol. That being said any ideas on how to run the Cult Detachment would be great!
Is it just me or has no-one noticed Abaddon can lead Terminators and now CHOSEN! (Not Legionaires!). This is HUGE in my mind! Yes, Abaddon has been nerfed, but to be able to lead chosen with shoot and charge if advance, reroll dark pact rolls, then chosen can get Abaddons 4+ inv. Not too shabby! I haven't seen any reviewer say that change to Abaddon at all, let alone the usefulness of it! HA HA, just say your Abaddon T2 comments!
Its a great combo. Even better because you can also attach a MoE to the same squad and give him the Raiders enhancement that let's the bearers unit Scout 6. Now Abby, 10 Chosen and a MoE can scout 6 and advance and charge turn 1 - whatever they hit, dies.
I really like the defiler, plays well with my giant terminator unit. Get counter offensived by the terminators or the defiler, those melee attacks can really mess things up
to point out something interesting about the noise marines, unlike the rest of the cult marines, they DO have access to dark pacts to give them letals and sustained its making them a better shooting option than the regular legionaries in anything that is not pactbound
MoE gives full hit rerolls with an easy condition, great combo with legionaries and can attach to an unit with a chaos lord. That plus a very solid datasheet with Dev and Precision. For only 80 pts, I think he is bottom tier 1 or high tier 2. I have seen a 5 unit of legionaries, chaos lord and MoE be quite scary.
In the Vashtorr detachment I'd put the helbrute in T2 too. He can make up to 9 attacks of helbrute fist and 2 heavy flamers with +1 to wound if you feel risky.
At this point, the only way to take flyers & not be at a massive disadvantage is to house rule them. My friends & I do the following: All flyers can start on the board if they want to. When coming from reserves counts there battle round as one higher than it is (which means they can come in BR1). Hover mode can be turned on/off in command phase. Free Rapid Ingress one flyer per turn (in addition to the strategem). Turning is at start OR end of turn (both if a ‘fighter’ type aircraft). Bombs can be dropped the same turn as coming from reserves. CANNOT be move blocked by ground forces - just move them onto or around the flyer base.
Hands down, one of the best CSM Codex since decades. -Eight detachments, most of them very interesting, versatile and and at least playable with the right units. -Covers almost every playstyle: Cultist spam, tactical powerhouse elites, tanky siege walls, fast hitting raiders, daemon engines, shock troops...etc. And we are still good in melee and dakka! -They really tried to give every unit a good Spot. Most of the units can be top tier with the right detachment. -Of course we have some flaws: Helldrake and Disco Lord are almost forgotten, Dread Talons are underwhelming but atleast Vashtorr got good.
i'll be running the alpha legion detachment because they're still my favorite legion. I think using their infiltrator detachment rule on legionaries with a chaos lord is gonna be dangerous for everyone else
For me, the terminator lord is tier 1. But that was during index times, so I need to reevaluate him now. I would run him solo with the intoxicating elixir. In combination with his half damage ability, he was unstoppable. And as a single model, his silhouette was really hard to screen out.
I think the Hellbrute might be good in soulpact as well. If you turn it into a Daemon Engine T1, Then it can gain the 2 Extra Attacks for its Melee Weapon. Plus, it gains more attacks if you have two Melee weapons equipped now. That means a *lot* of Helbrute hammer strikes. Even before you add the effects of lethal hits and sustained hits. I think it could be a good bodyguard for some Forgefiends.
As boring as it is, I'd but Cultist Mob in tier 1, simply because 50 points for 10 models that grants sticky on home objective, can do secondaries in the corner, screen etc. is amazing. Alternatively, you spent minimum 80 points on legionaries parked on home and they will do nothing else all game. Not sure about Bikers as tier 1. With their reworked ability, I don't see them above everything you put in tier 2. Otherwise, pretty good list!
@@LordMazilar I highly disagree. First of all, they are not that fast, because you have to remember they aren't infantry - can't move through ruins. If you play on proper terrain layouts, that makes them quite poor at moving around. Index version was fast due to their ability. For 15 points more you get Raptors, they are also 12" move but has infantry, fly AND deep strike. way superior for that. I also don't understand what you mean by "very killy and tough". They are neither of those. Not even close to. They were used solely for their ability, which they lost. They have a spot as being 70 points mounted specifically due to some stratagems in Raiders, otherwise Raptors are better in every single way. Alternatively, you spend a bit more and get Warp Talons.
@@BreakerBeatthey're 3W T5 3+ & come with 3 combi bolters & 2 plasma. Both units will have a power fist & 2 chainswords but the bike chainswords are S5 which is relevant in several matchups. Raptors end up being 1W more at worse wound characteristic (Dam3 is rare, Dam2 is everywhere) raptors lose damage faster to casualties on top of missing the combi shots vs many relevant T3 hordes for perspective, T5 W3 3+ is a premium defense at 23p per body here. Terminators are 37ppm for T5 W3 2+/4++ While 2+/4++ is better, the bikers are almost half as much per wound/body
@@LordMazilar You focus too much on comparing damage on units not meant to deal damage. Neither of them are good at it - we have much better units for that. None of the weapons you mentioned are killy for Bikers simply because they have so few of them. The role of such a unit is not to kill. It's also not to be attacked, because they WILL die easily. The purpose is being fast to score. That's it. If two units are equal at doing it, THEN you can start to get nitpicky with damage and defensive profiles. But that's the thing, Bikers are SO much worse at scoring. 12" is fine, but without fly AND you can't move through ruins? That's just extremely bad. Without back to reserve, they aren't mobile, and that's the one thing you need them for. Raptors are fast because they move through ruins and fly over screens. Raptors simply does what this kind of unit needs to do SO much better than Bikers. Lastly, if you really want to compare damage, remember these units mostly will face enemy scoring units. For that, Raptors having a much higher volume of attacks is often better.
@@BreakerBeatYou clearly haven't actually tested them out before. They are objective skirmishers, plain and simple. Charge onto an objective, kill a chaff unit, then moveblock. For 70 points that's all they need to do to be more than worth their cost. They are good for about 10 VP each if you use them right, and in Raiders they will actually kill chaff quite well.
Just make chaos bikes out of outriders & chaos heads and sper powers fists and us a copy of the horus heresy speshal wepon upgrade its qut a ezy upgrade
@@ca11rl77Not OP at all really, as realistically the Possessed are only going to charge once or twice in a game, and 80 points is a lot for an enhancement - since thats basically what the MoP is to them now.
Just picked up my Veterans battleforce. LGS also has the old Combat Patrol so got that too. What should i do for a 1k list? What should I buy to make a 2k list? I'm painting them as Alpha Legion if that affects anything.
Alpha detachment is good, you can infiltrate very well. You are in luck with models, too. You probably need a few Rhinos (second hand is easy) and normal cultists for infiltration and objectives. Maybe a nice big tank or Daemon engine for fun and guns. You're pretty much set with that. You've got a great start with that box.
Did exact same thing! I’m planning on running Renegade raiders so if you add Abaddon, Winged Demon Prince, and 10 Warp Talons + enhancements you’re sitting right around 2k.
Heldrake has a little more viability in Veterans of the Long War with it's Baleflamer, Something that moves that fast and auto 6s on hits can be useful for melting certain characters and units, I use it to melt lone wonder characters pretty well. Still too points heavy though. Personally if it wasn't my favorite model I wouldn't use it unless it was 190 like the Forgefiend.
I still don't understand why they didn't make the Sorcerer a luitenant type to help make him useful and the Chaos Spawn at least be an option in squad-sizes of 2,4 or 6. All-in-all, things are pretty good though.
I do disagree with one thing but it's a personal preference really. The predator annihilator, yes for the most part anti-armour but those heavy bolters should not be too hastily stepped over. (shame we can't whack on a couple heavy flamers or melty melty's, heh) Or since the Havoc Launchers have some tasty range at 48" same as the las'cannons, while doing some nice damage in regards to being an anti-troop weapon. So for me a predator annihilator with full set of las'cannons and a havoc launcher, sits well with me, reasonable movement and survivability that can be a menace to armoured units yet still have reasonable anti-troop but with a range equal to its main weapons. Again this is just a personal preference, and may not be to other folks liking. (that and a war dog stalker instead of a hell brute ^_^)
2x 5 man legionaire squads. Each with 2 pf, 2 cs, and a reaper chain gun. Put both in a rhino. In the raider detachment you're getting d6+20 shots vs hordes at str5/ ap/-1/ dam1. If elite is the meta, turn them into autocannons. When your self healing bunkers pop, you've still got the same guns. Plus it'll be worth a look of shock as your ork opponent watches 2 rhinos spew 50 rounds at their ork blob and melt that mf like butter in the sun 😂😂
Great, now this shall be the edition we call them the Things shall not be named. Kinda a shame since Chaos Spawns were good before the update. Wait, no! I didn't mean to say it! *OHGODLORDPLEASEHELPMEEEEEEE-* *Transforms into the Thing that shall not be named
Heldrake is not overall weak tbh. Yeah it's very specialized, but it's insanely good at it. Anything Fly units that it touches will juat die. I had my Heldrake kill 5 Rubric + Ahriman in 1 turn of melee yesterday. And he heavily dmged a Mutalith + killed Tzaangors before that. He may just need some cost decrease, but if you expect a lot of Fliers like Tau, he's a very good choice.
Absolutely, but i think that is bacically what he said. The Profile in and of itself isnt bad at all. A bit specific, but not bad. Its just far too expensive, especially for lists that want to be general purpose, cause you dont know what you are facing.
@@BillyBloodlust thats kind of sad since the codex really should be balanced with the other ones. Especially if someone wants to come back to an edition years later and all of these carefully curated points are gone from the internet.
No legends datasheets. And that is bloody rude or GW, it is dead cool. Removed from World Eaters too, and that isn't right. Look at the beautiful monster! All the gold and crimson, you know you want a bunch of Berzerkers marching before it.
Regarding the Venom Crawler and the less good "gain attacks" rule: I know in the physical codex it says you have to kill units in melee, BUT in the updated app it says: "At the end of ANY phase, if one or more attacks made by this model in that phase destroyed one or more enemy units..." Which is the old rule. So, either they reversed the change from the codex or they made a mistake when updating the app. Either way, with the app supposedly having the most up to date, legal rules, you can still get your extra attacks from melee and ranged unit kills.
So, I have memories of the days back when Chaos was, in many ways, just a reprint of the Astartes, with spijes,and their angst turned up to 11. I know we should celebrate how much different they can be, now, compared to their Loyalist counterparts, so I guess it's nice that at least some Space Marines can make Bikes, and Terminators, good? Yes, I'm complaining, and about two things I have already complained about, but it does feel weird that Chaos Bikers, and Terminators, are pretty good; rated Tier 2, or better, in a codex that's looking like it will at least rather decent, but then the Astartes; the faction you'd think GW would just plush on principle, who have both a dedicated Biker Chapter, in the White Scars, and a dedicated detachment for each of these units, can't necessarily make either of them good? Beyond that whine, I'm pleased with where CSM is setting up. They might not be as meta-bending as Orks will be, but I expect them to spank Loyalist Space Marines, and numerous other factions, as well. Not my preferred faction, certainly but looking decent.
