3 Ways to do it - 2 yr vs 4yr 1:20 - 4 Year Program 1:38 Masters Program 1:52 College is all three 2:05 Self Taught Learning 2:15 CS wasn’t relevant at the time 2:50 Most popular - love it or hate it Coding Bootcamps - built for creating people who can code on the things we need tomorrow - CS wasn’t always for what we needed tomorrow - Closer to what employers want - 8-9 Hours p/day for 12+ weeks. 3:55 Primary Focus - 1 Stack, project based 4:18 Which is best - All three work 4:36 Personal Experience 5:00 I’ve used all three methods 5:20 Which works? 5:48 Don’t listen to the noise 5:55 All three are working 6:05 Which is the best way for you 6:32 Everyone who knows how to code is employed 6:55 We don’t care where or how you learned 7:04 If can make the product or service work, you will always have a job 7:44 Economic Mobilizer - Mobile in pay, location, and in job - No longer stuck 8:15 Primary Differences 8:33 Bootcamps are relatively inexpensive 8:44 Both CS and Bootcamps - same Junior Dev job 9:20 Self taught - least expensive of them all 9:45 I want you to worry about this one thing...Online Bootcamps 9:55 Bootcamps are immersive, in person - Coach, Mentor to unstick and encourage you. 10:27 Online Bootcamps is watching but lacks 20 yr. veteran teaching you how to code 11:09 Bootcamp = 12 weeks before first job vs 4-6 years for CS grad 12:00 Employers May pay for CS degree after you’re hired 12:11 Bootcamps win argument in time to job 12:25 Bootcamps are highly regulated for VA and GI Bill in terms of completion rate and employment rates 13:17 Online Bootcamps self report 50-60% completion rate - direct correlation to live support. 13:40 CS degree college completion rate - 28% change degree before completing - 50-60% complete CS degree (dude to time/life factors) 14:20 Completion rate for bootcamps - 80-85% 14:50 Instructor, coaching, mentoring drives completion rate 15:02 Regulatory standards ensure higher outcomes 15:30 Advice - Learn fast, learn quick, get a job and get paid. 15:50 Best option I can take...take free basic courses on JavaScript, do not over learn. Spend weeks (Not months or years), then take that skill into a full-time immersive bootcamp (part or full-time). Learn from an instructor and get a job, then jump to a CS degree program (maybe paid by employer). Get CS degree after you’re employed. 16:47 BEST top-secret way to use all three. 17:00 Still want help, go to coderfoundry.com/jobroadmap. 17:13 Good luck, and keep coding!
"Don't over learn" was the guidance I needed. I have been learning basic JavaScript (including html/css) and I am starting a local bootcamp here in Kansas City in a few months. I have been pressuring myself to study and learn as much as possible so I can get the most out of the bootcamp but it's felt wrong. Thank you my friend!
@@CoderFoundry thank you. Been through several of your videos now and it's providing a lot of clarity on how to shape my career, what I really want out of it, and how I can make a positive impact. You're the man!
Adam Mac hey Adam, I am on your same boat and I’m also starting a local bootcamp in Overland Park KS. Would love to connect through discord or through LinkedIn!
It’s interesting when you brought up in the video “all over the world we are pushing coding.” In one of my Econ courses we got into the topic of automation and whether there will be jobs in the future. My teacher said that there will always be jobs but as we have seen in the past jobs change over time. To use his words he said “ In the future there will be people who own the robots, people who build the robots, and people who fix the robots.” Of course that’s an oversimplification but I think he makes a good point. In the future coding will just more and more prevalent. I’m an economics graduate and almost every job I apply to expects you to at least been exposed to code and prefers if you have written your own code. Sorry for the long winded comment but what you said made me think of my teacher.
Best advice I’ve heard! I’m going to do just about that. Do boot camp first, get a job and then pursue my CS- Bachelors Degree at a University🤗 Thank you so much! 😊
Best advice ever! I just did a master degree in Business Analytics and woooow a previous bootcamp in Data Science or Data analytics would have been incredible choice. Excelente advice: 1. Do pre-courses online and learn as much as you can 2. Go for a Bootcamp 3. Fin a job 4. Work and Study for your college education (hopefully employer will pay) 5. Be student debt free with TON of experience. This is something I wish to know before entering Uni.... Thanks for this fantastic video!
The difference is that with a degree you can get to management, I am self taught senior engineer but I hate humanities and soft skills dealing with people, good thing I'm making enough to do my start up and retire before 40
@@recklezz4 Nothing interesting about it, just like all hiring they needed certain skills and I had them. Of course the first job is always shitty poorly paid and too much work but its worth it just as soon as you have little experience all doors open. The market is just heavily under supplied they don't have the luxury to demand degrees and I can tell you this as employer too, last year I was lead in a project and I needed to hire people desperately but nobody met the criteria if there was any candidates to begin with. To this date no one ever questions me about a degree and hr people always give me funny looks when I say my price and that I don't hold a degree lol
I study Comp. Engineering for the past 5 years, being on the last right now. The last thing you would ever expect from university attendance is guidance. I consider myself selftaught in many ways and most of the cources. I lost the opportunity of a free bootcamp with guaranteed job after it and I still regret it sometimes. A bachelor's degree though, will take you much further for sure. I've seen the "1 secret portfolio project" video, the bugtracker and I still find hard to get my head around building a solid portfolio. That's because, since I've scrached such diverse topics in bachelor and haven't implemented most of them, I don't know where to start from. If someone needs a job market ready solution quickly, bootcamps may be the solution, for now.
i've started coding at the age of 15 got my masters degree in cs spec software engineering at the age of 24, and now i'm a lead software dev at the age of 32.
I did my Software Engineering , and i learn C# (.Net) Microsoft Certified. ASP.net ASP.net MVC and Core totally self tough now thinking to learn Xamrin. for future will go to boot camp.
I never see Information Technology degrees put into the mix for software engineering Yeah, we don't get those algo's but we get a lot of programming and project-based learning experience that you can argue you can get from bootcamps or from self teaching, but those resources you can only get from a 4-year college experience Plus, with being at a college, I can still get those traditional CS class structure along with my IT degree Obviously it isn't for everyone, and for those who solely want to get into software, you do have to take some hardware classes, but if you stick to those software tracks, it's another option Mileage may vary, obviously
I wanted to go to a daily boot-camp to learn C#, but the only one in my city (or even country now), has a 3 hour per day course, 3 times per week, for about 12 weeks. I was very skeptical about that, but the employment rate for the graduates were high, so I might as well give it a go, it's only 800 euros.
I think the only problem of having the degree is the cost, everything is on internet, if someone needs experience there are a lot of open source projects to help and improve your experience.
I think that the 2-6% completion rates for online (self-taught) courses is very misleading, and can't be directly compared to the other completion rates you give. The reason for this is that a lot of people use these courses in order to try something out, without the intention of persevering. Contrast this to the person that has shelled out thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars for a bootcamp or degree - these are (mostly) people that have made a commitment to persevere. If you managed to seperate out the people that were serious about developing their skills from the ones that weren't, you'd find that the completion rates for the online courses would be much higher (though still behind the bootcamp / degree, due to the cost factor also serving as a motivating factor). I think that the 'motivating factor' of having a tutor or other students physically present can easily be overstated.
I'm agree with you, I tried to learn about machine learning in one year and it never worked in the online programs, now I'm doing a master in machine learning in the OMSCs in georgia tech and the pressure and tutoring is making me learn.
@@CrimsonKing666 I was actually considering that myself. I might DM you in the future to see how you got on and find out what you thought of it, if that's ok? What experience did you have going into the course and how long have you been doing it for?
Coder Foundry is having to provide online bootcamps for the same price as the on-site immersive, and I'm considering it for the July - Sept session. How do you feel about online bootcamps now that online is the only option? If it's not the same experience, and it's new to your platform, why would I want to do it for the same price?
I find that, after experiencing 2 out of the three options, the messing component to really prepare a developer for a job is learning the supporting environment. You learn the language and in some cases how front end and back end work together. The big “surprise” when you finally land the first Dev job is, Agile management, scrums, sprites, GIT, automated testing frameworks, automated documentation frameworks, so on and so on. There is so much more than just knowing the language. Colleges or online learning don’t prepare you for this. I’m not sure if boot camp do or not.
Self taught is the worst. No outside verification of skill besides the interview. Hiring manager needs projects done so can settle. Good devs are applying at BigTech
I like the idea of being self-taught, but that didn't work out for me motivation-wise. I'm poor, so a coding bootcamp was out of the question for me when free college is an option for me via need-based grants. Lots of general education and low level computer science courses I'll never use like Hardware and Operating Systems. But hey, I'm told that knowing such things will make me a better software engineer.
Don’t think a bootcamp is out the question. We offer a program that allows you to pay nothing upfront and you pay once you get a job. coderfoundry.com/launchpad
One probably wouldn’t be there is the first place. We are very selective over who we let in. We take into account multiple criteria for entrance including grit factor.
@@froylanrodriguez54 So great question. For us we need you to build all the projects and pass the class so that we can get you a job. If you fail does mean you will never work in the industry? No. It means you will have to additional work beyond the bootcamp. Having said that we work very hard to make sure that you get all the support to pass. But we cannot guarantee you will pass our program. Also, we have have 2 week policy that you can drop and receive a full refund or cancel your ISA or loan. Call us to get more details if you are interested in attending.
Really curious as to how you got the data for the so called completion rate of people who are attempting to be self taught. How did they pile a group of people to find that data? The people who don’t complete it are not going to be out bragging about how they didn’t complete it. How would you even know who to ask that question to? And completion DOES NOT equal employment. I’ve known several people who never finished their boot camp because they got hired before they even finished it and I know one person who got hired before they finished the online course they were taking.
I think in the end everyone self thought but the only difference is boot camp you have some to review your stuff guide you and can get you a job computer science same thing but don't help to get a job I'm a self thought programmer I use sololearn leetcode and discord talk to people who are professional help me out too. I ask questions just finished learning python now I'm learning C++ just when you are self tough only you can motivate yourself to keep going.
So what I am most curious about in regards to the differences between slef taught, bootcamps, and CS Degree is the difference in career advancement opportunities. I imagine the biggest advantage of the CS degree over the bootcamp and self taught is advancement opportunites because of the degree. Are supervisory positions, management, etc. more available across the board or is it equal across the board?
I have never been held back because of a lack of a cs degree. The software field largely is based on what you can do not where your education comes from.
I am a senior computer science student, and all I'm saying is don't go waste your 4 years of your life. College of engineering will give you depression and anxiety. 4 years cost around 50k school + living expenses. I am almost done, wish me luck👋Thank you for the great content in your channel👍
Is it a good choice for a person who has just graduated from high school to enter a bootcamp rather than college because I don't work well with books and I'm more of a person who learns from practical teaching. Because I have this subject which I did in high-school called Computer Applications Technology (CAT). It is divided into two sections. Theory and Practical In the practical half, we didn't need to study, only practice. I excelled at that, I was the highest in the grade with practical, I even got 116/150 for the final exam However, on the theory side, I didn't do good, that requires you to read and study. I got 52/150, which pulled me to get to 56% for my final mark If it was only practical, I would have gotten 77%, but theory pulled me back University requires you to read and study However bootcamp, you just need to do the work directly which gets you job ready if I'm not mistaken
Last time I checked half the CS grads from BCIT in British Columbia, Canada are not hired in a computer related field. You won't even get looked at if you don't have a degree from a recognized accredited school, HR will automatically trash your resume. Bootcamps might work in the US, but don't say that they are effective in any other job market.
@@CoderFoundry its basic experience in this market. I went to BCIT for computer systems in the 90's. Canada is a completely different job market. Degrees are everything. Job prospects are also low in the CS field. This is why I retrained as a Materials engineer. I know multiple people in the field, and it is a difficult field in Canada. One friend of mine is now doing help desk work after almost 30 years as a Database programmer. Your experience is based upon the US market, and like many Americans, you believe that your country's job market is similar to others.
@@CoderFoundry good luck. My guess is that they won't be working longer than a temp workers. I live here and found the exact opposite of what you are telling everyone to be the norm. Edit: A brief examination on indeed for programmer jobs in BC, over half require a university degree and those that don't are temp contract work.
I am taking a Web Development Cert. program at Devry University Online and has to be the worst education I've ever experienced. Now that I've wasted my money there I'm about to go to a bootcamp. I'll be spending the same amount of money without a 4 year degree! Sucks but I feel it's still a good investment in myself. Any thought? I see it as having a 4.0 GPA and then graduating from a bootcamp should get me into a great place.
One disadvantage to a degree- most universities and colleges are not equipped to deal with people with math difficulties, especially considering that higher maths are stressed to a ridiculous extent compared to actual usage. (It has also been cited as an intentional barrier for women and minorities.) I see boot camps as the 'vocational-ed' version of code education.
Dundee.... How does anyone follow you... A 17 min video that could have been a 5 min vid. I put you on 2x speed and I still had to skip ahead... Honest criticism here. Besides that.. thank you for the over cluttered but somehow still ok content
Also, if you can afford a CS degree, do it. Campus life + knowledge for knowledge's sake > getting a job. Do any bootcamps discuss the Church-Turing thesis?
