From multiple online sources and Chinese enthusiast groups I'm in, apparently Cafec's light roast filter changed after being rebranded as T-92 (unlike in this video). It is SLOW. My drawdowns take at least 4 minutes with Hoffmann method and 15-250 ratio; sometimes I get 10 minute brews if I grind just slightly finer. However, I separated the brew at 3 min and tasted the latter part of stalled drawdown, surprised to find it quite sweet and not over-extracted at all. It does produce heavy body and sweetness if you are using VERY high quality, (VERY) light roasted beans. It almost acts like an immersion brew but with slightly more punchy flavor from faster percolation at the beginning.
Hey it would be cool if you could perhaps try light roast coffee in the medium roast filter, and so on. Would be cool to see how each filter brings out different character in other roast type.
I'm a BeeHouse/Clever/Technivoorm user and i can swap filter between all of them, but this test has me pretty intrigued. I would like to see how the standard v60 stack up against Cafec's dripper with straight channels.
Rob Lucchetti that’s definitely on my list, as well as Cafec’s pour over style which is far different than anything I’ve seen. If you search CAFEC Osmotic Flow pour over there is a video. It’s pretty wild and goes against all that I’ve learned and been told. Check it out.
@@Sprometheus Agreed, that pour over video they have basically does not match up with much, if any, of the general principles I’ve come to understand about pour over (primarily from RU-vid tutorials a la James Hoffmann and Scott Rao) so is generally confounding to me. I actually recently ordered the Cafec Flower brewer somewhat based on a review/overview by the Coffee Chronicler, a, from what I can tell, newer entrant into the world of coffee RU-vid. I would really be interested in your thoughts about their brewer!
THANK YOU! I've been saying different paper filters provide different results and people don't really grab onto that concept for some reason. I've done testing with cloth filters between different shaped pour overs (Wave 155, V60-01, Chemex 3-cup) and ended up using the same exact grind size and other settings/recipe for each brew device, which showed me it's not the filter *shape*, it's the filter *material* that matters and affects flavor. Using the paper filters for each of these brewers requires different recipes and grind sizes. While your test wasn't specifically about filter shape, it shows that all paper is not created equal.
You’re welcome and thanks for the response. I do agree with you the filter material definitely matters, and in this video I think that’s clear. But I do think filter shape can definitely have an effect on extraction and taste. For example I find the Kalita 185 to have more body and texture than most V60’s as well as an easier time getting over 20% extractions. I thinks a lot of people look at filters as a one size fits all program, and don’t often question its effects on the cup. But I hope that this video, even though not hugely popular, will maybe help people consider filters as a variable just as important as grind, water temp, etc.
I heard about these roast-specific filters for a while. I used to consider them as gimmick, as I generally prefer faster drawdown. But now, after watching your video, I might consider the dark roast filter to solve the problems I have with darker roast beans I have in my office. Nice insight, Sir!
Thanks Tony! I didn’t compare the standard V60 as I had ran out awhile back and was trying out Cafec’s Abaca filters instead. I’m curious about too. Will definitely give a shot and report back.
I think it would be interesting to see what happens when you use filters for a roast other than what they are recommended for, i.e. light roast with the dark roast filter. It seems like the thickness and density changes would cancel each other out and make a similar thing happen.
I been using their abaca filter and their flower dripper for ages, instead of the Hario dripper and filters, sweeter imo. Haven't tried their new filters yet, but quite interested to do so.
I’ve been using the Abaca filters too. Really enjoyed them, so when I saw these I figured it’s worth a try. At the very least could be an interesting video, haha
Question about the CAFEC light roast filters: I have been playing around with these in my ceramic v60 and I have never had so many brews stall out and the drawdown ends up in the 6+ min range using the Hoffman method. I even gring coarser for these papers vs my Kino fast papers and still have the same issue. Has anyone else faced this issue or am I just doing something wrong? For reference: ceramic v60 1zpresso JX Pro - 42 clicks (4 full turns and then 2 numbered increments) 21g beans 350 ml of water
It's not just you. No matter how I start my brews with the light roast filters, they will stall eventually, leading to horrible drawdown times and a bitter aftertaste. I'm switching back to the normal papers, since my pour overs were plenty tasty before trying these filters.
I found that the smell from the t-92 is simillar as to the netherland made hario filters which are considered the worst. ANd I really am Amazed that your brew with the t92 was so fast. With an ethiopean coffee even with a filter-french press grind I don;t come under 4 minutes
These have definitely fallen under the radar. I hadn't heard anything about this until now. And it's crazy how, like you mentioned, something so important like this is overlooked. But for $9 I'm definitely going to give it a shot... I need to finish my current filters though, because I know I'll be spoiled after, and I don't want them to go to waste lol. Thanks for bringing this up! Stay safe ✌🏼
Thanks Joey! I’d love to hear your thoughts on these after you get em and try them out. Be sure to hold onto some of your old filters to compare too. Side by side is pretty wild .
Really interesting comparisons! I was unfamiliar with these but will probably look into them. One thing that might be interesting given the difference in brew time for the light roast comparison is to adjust the grind for the standard filter to make the brew times match up. Basically, can you mimic the effects of the filter by adjusting the grind. I think that'd also be an interesting exercise. Great job though!
For sure. I considered dialing in to get them to fall closer to each other, but I did find it pretty odd that the light filter was the densest mesh and still ran faster than the standard. I could’ve been making pour overs all day to be honest, but it was so hot in my kitchen by the end of filming I was fully over it. But maybe another video is in order in the future.
I beg you - tell me how do you use the light roast filters. What kind of coffee, the grind size (more or less), water temp, dose, water amount... Everything! O can't figure them out they are waaaaaay too slow to produce a good cup unless we are talking for the lightest roasts on the market
Interesting stuff! I saw these when I was shopping for some filters a while ago but mostly the turnoff was being almost twice the price of a pack of regular hario v60 filters. I personally prefer the textured cup a cloth filter makes but I have to revisit these when I have a chance.
Since it seems difficult to know when you have a medium roast or a light roast, i try to brew my coffees with the orig. hario, the cafec light and the cafec medium and then see what works best. here in germany you receive ash black coffee and on the bag it says light roast so imagine
I’ve had a bunch of these filters lying around but I’ve noticed that with the osmotic flow filters, the standard draw down would be around ~2.5 minutes, but with full saturation, water wouldn’t reach the coffee bed until around 6 minutes, sometimes even longer. Has anyone else noticed a significantly longer draw down with full saturation?
Yes!! I couldn't believe it doubled my brew times for light roasts! Overextracts every time. I have practiced osmotic flow in the past and have found it not very consistent for me. I didn't expect this much difference. My only solution is super slow pour or Tetsu method.
Love these filters! I use the dark roast specific filter with the new brewista tornado glass dripper (pretty close to a V60) These filters produce a very focused flavor with Lifeboost dark roast coffees.
I wanna take a moment to bring up the Kalita FP103 cone shaped filter. I'm convinced that it's the best drip machine filter in the world, and nobody in Europe sells it. If anyone reading this runs a coffee shop, please give it a go. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
@@Sprometheus I swear, it's great. I started using them mostly because they have a faster flow rate than Melitta or Filtropa, so the Clever doesn't clog as easily with them, but also they consistently bring out much more sweetness and less bitterness. The same coffee brewed with these filters or Filtropa are a completely different experience.
@@tykjpelk So the FP103 is the correct size for the standard (large size; 18oz max capacity) Clever Dripper? I would like to try these in the Clever, pronto!
Was the dark filter good enough to make you drink dark roasts? I just received dark-roasted beans from a specialty roaster in the Philippines as a gift, but I just couldn't drink it anymore. Do you think using the dark filter would make them palatable?
I was hoping you’d be able to do a video on regrinding! i’ve seen a few people claim that regrinding (once at a coarser setting, once more at the desired grind) provides better particle consistency. I was wondering if that’s true, and if it’s even good for your grinder!
Benjamin Lew I’ve been seeing that a bit lately. It looks like some people with some proper scientific tools are doing some work in that realm. I’ll be curious to see what goes on with it and I may end up trying it out for myself.
Just curious, you say medium roast is your go to so I assume you have brewed quit many with standard filter before but you say it just taste bitter, has it always tasted bitter with standard filter? Or is this new filter so magical that you firs now realised how bitter it is? Or perhaps you chosed a "bad" coffee that got better with this filter? Sorry to sound too critical, I really love your videos but I have a little voice in my head that wispers if it sound to good to be true......
Fredrik Alfredsson so I used a medium roast that was intended for espresso to see how it would perform because I knew there would be some bitter notes in the mix as most espresso roasts tend to go a bit further into the medium realm than most of my go-to coffees.
Tried the Cafec - you're right! Then I tried a cloth filter for the Hario. It also loses any bitterness, and emphasizes deeper, richer tones while losing some of the top notes. I imagine cloth wins for Indonesians, Indians, and Brazilians while Cafec would rule for Africans and Central Americans.
For some reason my experience with the light roast paper filter has always ended with really long draw down, often go over 5 minutes. It seem to always stall when the water level gets below half, like what you describe with your standard filter. What’s going on here?
My current paper filter now is somewhat on the thinner side compare to the original hario paper filter. My problem is that the draw down seems fast. Is it okay if i use two filters?
Oddly, my CAFEC filters (on the same grind size as my Hario daily drivers) crawled to a literal stop about 2/3 through and took 2x the time to drawdown. Really strange.
which cafec fiilter? i also recently tried cafec paper, and the lightroast paper is so slow compare to cafec medium dark roast or even hari untabbed. i think the differences between 1-2 minutes (same size same beans)
Great video as always! I would be really interested in learning about what water you use for your pour overs and espresso machine, i would assume someone as invested as you would have a lot of great tips for the average person like me. Keep up the great work!
jacob porter thanks Jacob! I actually use the same water for both my espresso machine and pour overs. Since I’ve had my machine I’ve only use Crystal Geyser spring water as it has the right amount of minerals in it to extract the coffee properly, but it also won’t build up much scale.
@@Sprometheus Great to know! Thank you! The more I get into espresso the more i hear people talking about third wave water, but have yet to find anyone who uses that product for their expensive machines. And Hoffman's video on it helped but my local coffee shops aren't "cool" about sharing or even selling it, So know I know what to get! Thank you so much!
@@jacobporter2213 I am using the Third Wave water minerals (dissolved into distilled water as instructed) for pour-over coffee for several months now. Where I live, the water is softened, and this makes a huge difference. The first time I tried it I did a side-by-side comparison with the same beans, same grind, etc., only the water being different. I was amazed at the difference it made. The Third Wave water extracts coffee much more effectively and the coffee it produces tastes much better than using the tap water I have available. Even the extraction times were very noticeably different. About 30-45 seconds faster for about 320 g water to draw down in the V60 with the Third Wave water vs. tap. (I had been wondering, why is my coffee taking so long to draw down compared to everyone on the internet? The water was why!) So, at least for me, it is a great product.
Scott Johnston I’ve been really liking the Aquacode Brew water as well. Just something a little different than Third Wave. I like Third Wave as well. I just think I like Aquacode a little better. I like my water to be a little softer for filter coffee. I guess one could also use a little less of the Third Wave packet as well :).
@@sdjohnston67 That's great to know! thank you Scott. I believe my water here in Az is pretty hard so after hearing your experience I'm really curious what this will do to my draw down time?! I have it coming in a day or to and am a lot more excited for it after hearing your results. Thank you!
First!!!... If you are reading this just know that you are blessed. Amazing and beautiful don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I wish all your dreams would come true just as I want all my youtube dreams to come true thank you
I know it's not the point, but a cool idea for fun would be to mix coffee and filter up, Dark roast with Light roast filter, and so on, just to see what comes out in the end. Maybe their science and your flavour buds don't agree in the end? :p
Would they fit 2 cup v60 ok? I recently received some Sibarist filters. Would be interesting to compare those 🤓. Thanks for the videos. Always enjoy them. Particularly when onesies appear.
I was wondering how different the roast-specific filters are as compared to the standard Cafec filters? Do you think that the standard Cafec performs in the same way as the usual filters that come with V60 or Kalita?
Hard to know whether to trust all this scientific sounding paper tech language. And this doesn't help: the light roast filters are specifically engineered to flow more *slowly* -- according to CAFEC's product description -- than their standard filters "to improve aroma and clean taste". But the distinguishing feature of your trial is how much faster they brewed (and how much better that made the brew taste).
You made the “Creator on the Rise” page on RU-vid. That’s how I just now found you 🙂. Excited to go on this coffee journey Edit: As soon as you said, “Ponyboy”, towards the end of the video, you had me as a subscriber haha
Nice video the filters look very nice ! Im surprise to see so much fines with the niche zero ! I knew it was more geared toward espresso but this is choking. good content tho as always !
I when I sifted the Niche it actually has far fewer fines than my Mazzer. But I’ll be doing some more sifting soon so keep an eye out for that one. Thanks for watching and the kind words.
Yeah you can to some extent, but that flow rate would likely have major effects on extraction and final flavor. If one was coarse and the other was a bit finer you’re already going to get some different flavors extracted based solely on the grind size, even with an aligned flow rate.
Good question. Not 100% sure. They are made specifically for the V60 but the Chemex is a 60 degree angle as well. I’d say it’s likely, but I’d go with the bigger size, you could always trim off the excess of there is any.
Yeah that’s possible. One of the biggest issues with that design in my opinion. Even their filters have that issue. If I had a Chemex I would try it out, but it broke a couple years ago and I never replaced it.
You really need to improve your pouring skill - I meant, look at all those spills on the table! What a waste! But seriously, I came across Cafec's youtube video yesterday and was looking for ways to order online. You are right, I need to buy paper filters anyway so paying a bit more, just to experiment, seems logical!
Smells like BS, tastes delicious? I think filters play a huge role, but I didn't think tiny differences like that could have such a huge impact. I might have to try these after this, thanks for the video!
I was pretty skeptical too. I’ve always just bought the standard filters for everything. But this was a pretty wild experience, and considering they are relatively inexpensive they’re worth a try.
The Real Sprometheus yes please. Or does differ from a type of processed coffee to another. Because I use the same grind for two different coffee and ones gives me perfect coffee while the other reaches 5mins and still dripping
I like you a lot, but as some constructive criticism, this video sounds like an advertisement. In addition, I think you're mistaken that a 25% extraction means "overextracted."
Ah, I realized when you said "Standard" paper filter it was also made by Cafec and not Hario etc. Any chance they intentionally make them considerably inferior to show a more stark difference? Also, I'm disappointed you didn't go the Hoffman route and taste some paper water! :p
I doubt they made their standard filters worse on purpose. I ditched the standard Hario for the CAFEC standards about a year ago as I preferred them. I considered adding in tasting the filter water, but considering it was a long video already I opted to skip it.
@@Sprometheus Maybe I'll give them a try. I tend to rotate between light and medium roasts and will likely just get one paper. Would you recommend one over the other as a good option for both?
it's not a big deal that you swirl only the top part of that particular pour over kit. I'm not mad at all. that's just tiny winy little thing. yes it's more beautiful if you swirl the whole thing. I mean, just use regular v60 with pitcher if you want to swirl only the pour over part. but it's not a big deal at all. I'm really not mad about it. everyone does that. I'm not mad okay I'm stop watching because of that
