I'm not sure I understand something : you were winning the infantry battle, but loosing the armored one. So why keep building KV2 that are excellent against infantry but not that good against tank ? (am I missing something ?)
KV2 is very good but it needs support. The problem was Kimbo had too many tanks. The AT gun is not good if the enemy is flanking you and has 3 or more tanks. You must lose. If you don't destroy enough enemy tanks for an hour, then he has an advantage in numbers. It's simple, any other tank can be in the KV2 situation.
What a game! Thanks for uploading. I prefer to watch games from the perspective of the losing high level player, because it gives us more insight into improvement points. To sum up what could have been done better by Hans: 1) Commander choice - only good for early game, not a good choice against OKW heavy tanks 2) Shitty ATs - only much later on you deployed a ZiS gun. Goes back to the choice of commander. 3) Some risky late retreats (esp. the triple vet shock troops hurt) 4) Planted mines only later in the game - could have saved the KV2 5) Bad choice of KV2 against heavy tanks. Would be better to combine ZiS with an SU-85 I feel with you regarding the deflected AT shots (but again many were from the shitty AT guns). Kimbo is no easy player, he is one of the top 10, right?
@@Alexander-ns6xh have you played league of legends? You will really appreciate the coh2 community 80% are toxic assholes i quit playing 1 year ago because of that
that third KV2 he had fuel for SU-85. he needed also regular conscripts for cheaper snares. he needed t-34 or su-85. a couple of them. also he needed a lot more mines near his base man. but my favorite part is when the first KV2 and command panther came out and hans wiped 4 veteran volks squads. that was beautiful
@@KilliKonKarnage Well... I imagine his right hand is on mouse and left is operating the whole keyboard, including arrows. It's pretty doable, especially if you're such an experienced player
No matter how good Hans is, those light Soviet AT guns are garbage. Waste of MP and resources. Their lack of substantial damage contributed to his difficulties early on and it just snowballed from there.
They're only good vs lights, he shouldn't have gotten a third light at gun which was more of a panic call in. Hans was against a wall and I guess he couldn't wait to build T2 for real at guns.
At every turn, hans showed he was the better player. I see nothing but OPW plays from Kimbo. cheap teching, undying volks, cheaper+better+always available MG, command panther call-in, units and weapons of generally better quality suicide sticky satchels which proved to deal too little damage, necessity to backtech for one single unit, ZIS guns with same penetration and accuracy than rak, and lower than PAK, for 320mp. That means misses and bounces. Yet, what makes the ZIS even worse at killing tanks is its fire rate. On more than one occasion during this game, the zis got 1 or 2 shots of at a tank *that Kimbo literally parked in front of it*, where any other AT gun wouldve gotten a shot more off. LOOK AT THE DAMAGE DEALT NUMBERS
ZIS has a far higher penetration and accuracy than Raketen. The call-in AT can be comparable to raketens. Both are bad at penetrate heavy armors. In a high casualties match with 13CP being reached by 18~20min, IS-2 is far better against OKW(no Spec-ops) than OH because PAK is much better against heavy armor than Rak. You can have 3 Raks and IS-2 will just walk and wipe the floor. Even worse is the Crocodile.
@@mikerodrigues9822 NO IT DOES NOT. zis and rak have the same penetration and accuracy. Raketen has higher rate of fire, zis has higher range. I get so annoyed when people say things like that. PLEASE look up the stats in places such as this one: www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/raketenwerfer43_88mm_wg_mp and www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/zis3_76mm_m1942__at_gun_mp . Also, if you don't believe these (because why would you, right?) then PLEASE download Cheatcommands 2 mod and test the units yourself. Test them. Do it. You'll see that the zis and rak have similar performances... With the rak usually outperforming the zis due to rate of fire.
@@GraafBerengeur Cheap teching? OKW has the highest tech cost of all 5 factions. Undying volks? Volks start with 1.00 ra and Riflemen and IS get a 10% ra bonus at Vet 0. At Vet 3 Riflemen have 40% RA bonus and Volks get 23%. If your opponent's volks are undying maybe the problem is your play. The reason Kimbo's volks do so well is because he is always blobbing and outumbering the Penals. Agreed that ZIS definitely has the worst AT gun stats, BUT you conveniently forgot it also has arguably the best ability - barrage allows the ZIS to self-counter infantry and HMGs while other AT guns are purely AT only. ZIS is also 6-man with green cover while raketen gets retreat and camo....Both sides wish they had the other side's benefits. I'm obviously nowhere near Han's level of play but I'm top 100 to 150 in all 5 factions. I get super annoyed by one-faction fanbois screaming OP this OP that without considering other factions' weaknesses. You're also the only player I've seen biased enough to think that satchels don't do enough damage. They are already the single highest damage infantry based AT weapon. It's homing, snares, and has 100% accuracy. At the highest levels of play (GCS2) and at high levels of play (top 30 to 100) Soviets have above 50% win rate against OKW, yet the noobs who only play one side scream OPW everytime they get stomped....
@@felixyuen8225 lets have a look at Soviet and Okw teching then. Fuel prices for buildings: Special rifle comm: 10f Support weapon kamp: 20f Tankoviy batt comm: 85f Mech armor kamp: 90f Battlegroup HQ (+sws): 40f Mechanised reg HQ (+sws): 60f Schwerer pz HQ (+sws): 135f. Now. If we simply add all these up, we get a higher total cost for OKW: 235f versus 205f for Soviets. A difference of 30 fuel in favour of the Soviets. This, however, does not reflect the reality of gameplay at all. If we look at the *minimum* required fuel cost for reaching the final building, we get 175 for OKW (BGHQ + SchwPZHQ) versus 185 for Soviets (spec rifle + tankoviy + mech armor). A difference of 10 fuel in favour of OKW. This figure is closer to what you'd see in most games, but still does not count for 1) other upgrades with fuel cost, and 2) any light vehicle play. We can attempt to take these two into account, but the further we go, the murkier the comparison gets. If we assume people will almost always go medics for OKW and AT nades for Soviets, that's 190 for OKW versus 210 for Soviets. A difference of 20 fuel in favour of OKW. Conclusion 1: Barring light vehicle play, the Soviets have a higher minimum to pay before reaching their highest tier units. ---------- So all of the above is about reaching the final building. But, in my experience, the game is all too often decided long before that, due to how powerful light tanks are for both OKW and Soviets. So if we forget about the last building and include a T-70 and Luchs, as is the case in the game here, the fuel costs to tech become these: 100 for OKW (MechHQ + Luchs) versus 165 for Soviets. A difference of 60(!) fuel in favour of OKW. On a side note, while it is true that a T-70 wins in a 1-on-1 engagement versus a Luchs, a single Pfaust or AT gun hit means the Luchs wins. Conclusion 2: Looking at strictly light vehicle play only, OKW has a considerably lower tech cost (and vehicle price). ---------- Now, as for teching choices: bear in mind that, as Soviets, the first tech choice is considerably more important than for OKW. That is because the Soviets have to choose between strong infantry, snipers and scout cars on the one hand, and *all base team weapons* on the other. For OKW, while the differences between BGHQ and MechHQ *seem* big, they aren't really. For one, both include an anti-infantry vehicle (flakHT and Luchs) and an indirect fire unit (Leig and Stuka z F). For two, choosing any of these two allows the player to access 2 out of 3 crew weapons: the AT gun and MG. This is a very big thing that is often overlooked. It's an immense liberty that the Soviets, or any faction for that matter, do not get. We even noticed in this very game that Hans decided to backtech in order to get his big AT guns, paying another 20 fuel. The only mitigating factor here is that OKW can only get automated base healing with one of these tech choices. This, however, is counteracted by the non-doctrinal automated repairs with the other choice. Conclusion 3: Tech choice is less deciding for OKW and offers a greater unit variety in any situation.
@@GraafBerengeur Your selective use of data is highly dishonest. You constructed a scenario in which the Sov player goes T1 for Penals but STILL techs AT Nades? You're obviously doing that to artificially inflate Soviet "costs". You also forgot that Soviets start with 570mp and 20 fuel while OKW starts with 670mp and *5* fuel. The 100mp is great but 15 fuel is massive. Many people often pretend that the fuel deficit doesn't exist. OKW teching is the costliest because of that and the 15 fuel for medics are basically mandatory. Meanwhile you're factoring in AT Nades for NO BLOODY REASON.....Virtually no decent player gets AT nades in the OKW vs Sov matchup except for Talisman and his strange Conscript fetish. There are literally no fuel upgrades necessary for Soviets in the OKW vs Soviet matchup since the patch they removed Soviet field medics fuel cost. Real Conclusion 1: OKW: 205 fuel to T4 because of 15 to overcome starting deficit, Soviets 185 fuel to T4. Again, you've been busy with the cherry-picking. Let's just ignore the fact that Luchs can be held at bay by Guards and PTRS Penals, or the fact that your claims are outright wrong. A faust or a single AT gun hit aren't enough to swing the 1v1 matchup in favour of the Luchs. The T70 pens the Luchs 100% of the time, while the Luchs will lose to a 40% health T70 in a long-ranged frontal battle due to its terrible penetration values. The Luchs is an anti-infantry vehicle while the T70 can even deal damage to an Ostwind. But sure let's ignore all that. Real conclusion 2: OKW has a lower tech cost to LVs, but has a strictly anti-infantry LV which has far higher moving penalties and scatter. OKW also needs to pay 400mp and 55fuel to backtech to medics unless you build a 2nd sturmpio for 300mp to ensure you can keep throwing 45 muni med supplies in base. Moving on to Pt 3. Finally one that actually makes sense (mostly). You are mostly correct, except that in your eagerness to "win" the argument you make some pretty ludicrous claims. Getting AT gun and HMG in T0 is a massive advantage for OKW that helps to compensate for the huge loss in options between Battlegroup and Mechanised play. 1) Flak HT is an area-denial LV whereas the Luchs is an AI/bleed tank which can be used for chasedowns. Basically you're comparing the Soviet meatchopper half track with the T70....wut?? 2) Are you really comparing 200-something MP mortars with 100+ fuel late-game rocket artillery? It's beyond ludicrous to claim that mortars (light auto-attack indirect fire used in the early-mid game to win engagements and dislodge garrisons) and highly expensive rocket artillery used in late game setups (almost always built after the 20min mark) are even remotely feasible substitutes for each other. 3) Repair upgrade is great but it still doesn't solve the problem of healing infantry. Back-teching for healing or 2nd sturmpio are the common solutions - some people just live without that and bleed a lot of mp/lose engagements as a tradeoff. Pretty big tradeoff imo. Real Conclusion 3: OKW tech choices are generally less limiting than Soviet ones because 2 team weapons are available in T0, but the true difference is not anywhere close to the extent that you claim since the OKW tech structure does lock out many important pieces. As Soviets I always get T70, T34, SU85, Katyusha, in that order. Note that all the pieces are available naturally through the progression of the tech tree. As OKW, battlegroup is a purely defensive path that prevents me from having an aggressive LV like the Sov, and locks me out of late game rocket artillery to handle enemy team weapons. If I go Mechanised, I get shock value out of the Luchs, but I now have to spend 400mp 55 fuel to backtech for healing and indirect fire. If I do, I'm ages behind in the medium tank race. If I don't, I'll struggle vs defensive positions and will bleed muni, MP to improper healing, and face extra micro tax on my Sturmpios. It's not all a bed of roses for the OKW. Both sides have their pros and cons....Learn to play all factions and you'll understand that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
still, Hans is the best although he lost the game because he managed to control and hold his ground with nothing but a couple of penals and light vehicle anti-tank guns though he held the game for more than 30 min after that Kimbo smug base raped him, didn't mention that he was playing as Soviets not as Brits
that's(lose) the price when u don't learn about your past mistake(kv2...) and try it again and again. man, u don't use normal AT which is one of the advantages of Soviet and use(...) better not to name it -_- also about the title...i imagine this going to be hunting so many tanks with Penal Power(PTRS) but... anyway, u try hard and i respect that.
