DUDE you explained it PERFECTLY! No other video demonstrates what the real issue is- every other video just says check the box for mac displays and 10 bit precision viewers and it still wasn't working until finding your video. Thank you!! Subscribing now.
Thanks! A year ago I spent a lot of time 'researching' this on RU-vid. As you mentioned, lots of very 'curious' ideas out there. I got pretty close, but this tutorial nails it. Real appreciate your deep conceptual explanations that go way beyond the 'how-to' stuff. Looking forward to more of your MasterClasses.
this is great, thanks for sharing. If this is followed to the letter, the result is that what I see on DV is what I eventually see when the video is played on QT and YT on a Mac. But... if the same exported video is played on VLC (same Mac), or the uploaded YT video is then played from an Android phone, or windows machine, the video doesn't look the same, it ends up being more saturated and contrasty. I've been researching this topic for a long time now, and for me personally, rather than publishing or delivering to a client a video that only displays correctly on Mac / Quicktime and on all other devices is too saturated, I'd rather go the other way and color my videos based on Android / Windows and then knowing that the same video is just going to look more "natural" or "less saturated" when someone plays it on a Mac. After many of these tutorials, my own conclusion stays the same: gamma shift (i.e. the visibile difference in color between Quicktime/Mac and the Windows/Android) is not solvable. When I export a video, no matter the settings the result is always the same - QT and Mac will have lighter colors and contrast, VLC/Android/Win will be more contrasty and color rich.
Thanks for the detailed comment! Yeah in conclusion colour management is a nightmare. Educating your clients is key and giving them guidance on expectations for the colour on different devices is helpful. I'd always prioritise looking the best on an iPhone / iPad / RU-vid because that is where the majority of eyes come from.
This is by far the best breakdown I've come across dealing with this issue. At your convenience, I'd love to hear your thoughts on a few things: 1) What Output Color Space would you choose when you're round-tripping from Premiere to Resolve? 2) What export settings do you recommend when sending project file(s) back to an editor? I mainly edit (Premiere), and am trying to get a solid color management workflow down, editing in premiere, sending an XML to resolve for color, then exporting individual ProRes 4444 files back to premiere.
Honestly, you should be doing final delivery from Resolve. So once you've graded the project in resolve, leave it there. Finish your audio mix wherever you prefer to do that (premiere, pro tools, Logic Pro X, etc) and then bounce that mix to resolve. Then make your final deliverables from there.
Just started watching this, but I have watched over 100's of videos this last couple of weeks and trying to get my head around what is the proper color management workflow. I work 99%of the time with my own Sony Slog 3 cine clips and just need the basic proper workflow from with in Davinci to do basic color grades. But there are so many dang options and every time a try one or the other I do not get good result. I also would prefer Not to use the CST In and CST out ob my node tree and work between that but seems the only way to not let Davinci take over my color management.. Thank you
This was really helpful, thanks! Only thing I changed was my input was Clog 2 as opposed to BM Gen 5 as I shoot with a C70. But everything came out great, this has plagued me for a long time!
this didn't work for me unfortunately, I have already a heavy grade on my footage using cineprint 16 which has a CST in the node tree so when i went through the settings changes it just blew up my footage. do you have any tips on what i can do instead? my main issue is when exporting and airdropping to my iphone the color changes slightly by getting a lot warmer.... any help would be much appreciated and thank you for your video!
Thank you, Joshua! If using mutiple camera sources, is it best to leave the input color space at Rec709 2.4 and use color space transform nodes for the individual cameras? Or is there another option we should choose there? I use Panasonic gear, but also do some dronework, so curious how you handle this. Thank you again!
@@andrehugomedia I think I discovered the trick in another video. You can change all of the clips to your main camera in the maser input field. Then... if there are any random drone shots or other cameras used, in the color page you can right click those clips and change the input color. It will then just apply that input color to those clips, but you can still keep the master input the same for everything else!
Sorry i'm late to this question - But yes that is totally right. The master timeline settings are just a default until you change the input colour space of other sources to anything you want.
Thanks so much for the info. I have a question: when using your method, how do you know if your grade is being applied to the davinci WG gamut, and not to the rec709 colourspace? I only have experience using CSTs so can control where my final rec709 output is, and can make sure I’m only applying my grades to the Davinci WG gamut that I declare as the first node in my workspace.
I have one of the last mack book pro. The picture in Davinci viewer is soooo dark when I switch on the "Use Mac displlay color profiles for viewer" and sooo different from exported files, played on the same monitor (mac book pro). Is it only for the external mac monitors or should work for laptops to? Is there any ideas how to fix gamma and color differences between Davinci preview monitor and exported file?
So I tried this and it worked well. My imaged rendered better but why is this the case? I want to know why rec709-a is better than rec709 gamma 2.4 or gamma 2.2. Why do all colorist teachers say to use gamma 2.4 or 2.2. I understand the uses of 2.4 and 2.2 but if A makes the image look better then why am I now learning this.
Great tutorial, helped me a lot! Could you tell me what settings should I use in color managment tab if I have mixed footage? (Slog, clog, braw…) Thank a lot!
If you know your videos will only ever be viewed locally in QuickTime, or by Mac users in safari or chrome, r709-a is the best option. If your video will be viewed anywhere else, rec 709 gamma 2.4 for broadcast (or 2.2 if your project is destined for web). If you want to monitor your final deliverable, preview your file in a program that doesn't use Apple's Color sync utility, like VLC, IINA, or Firefox.
sRGB is close to gamma 2.2. The sRGB is kind of the legacy 2.2 because it was designed for CRTs ( old TVs and monitors ) - so the broadcast industry made it a standard .
What about the color profile for the monitor in MacOs settings? Should I leave it on Color LCD or should I set it to another profile to be more accurate?
Today I tested this on my Apple Studio Display. I used this Rec 709-A workflow with my display in both HDTV BT.709 & Apple Display P3. I compared the same clip in the viewer in Davinci, a video I uploaded to RU-vid, in QuickTime, and in FireFox. It made no difference whatsoever. Everything matched in all viewers both times. So I don't think you "need" to select one profile over the other, but I personally am going to stick with the Studio Display in HDTV BT.709 because if I'm grading in Davinci in a Rec 709-A color space, I might as well have my display calibrated to that color space
Hi, thanks for this. I was having issues with it looking fine in Resolve, and then exports would look undersaturated in Quicktime or on RU-vid but fine in VLC. I'm still confused though - I am using SLOG3 footage, and using Phantom LUTs, so in this case I don't want Resolve to transform all my footage as you said as I want the LUT to do that. So in colour management, what settings should I use? Should I just leave it on 'Rec709scene' or something else for both Timeline and Output? And can I just leave Conor science on Davinci YRGB, not colour managed. It's so confusing! I appreciate the help
If you need your video to look exactly the same in Davinci and Quicktime Player, this works. But do you really? What the Rec709-A does is actually cheat the gamma lower to compensate for the incorrect gamma conversion happening in ColorSync to have the video look correct on Mac, Safari or Chrome. It’s a hack. In reality you are simply making the image darker. Windows, VLC, Firefox and other players not affected by the odd gamma pipeline of Quicktime will see this for what it is. And it will be darker than what you grade. Therefore this doesn’t really sound like the best solution unless you absolutely know it’s going to be viewed only on a Mac?
I agree, it's not the best workflow outside of Quicktime and RU-vid pipeline on a Mac. Anything without a calibrated reference monitor is going to be a hack, but this is a good process for anyone using a mac and Davicini to upload videos specificially to RU-vid. You make a good point though, and important for people to know.
Thanks for the video. I have a question though. Does this cause QuickTime, RU-vid, chrome etc to read the videos as gamma 2.4? I’ve been editing with this method and whilst it does solve the QuickTime issue, my videos now look incorrect when using VLC. I worry windows clients will think my deliverables look bad because of the a shift.
Yes this really only solves the issue on QuickTime Player on a Mac. There are no real shortcuts from using a colour accurate reference monitor when grading.
One question I have is why set the "Timeline Color Space" to anything other than Rec 709-A when you intend to have your "Output Color Space" as Rec 709-A? Wouldnt that mean that your timeline (uses timeline color space) would look different than the rendered video (uses output color space)?
The timeline colour space could also be called your 'working colour space'. You can work, or do your colour grading, in any colour space but then convert it to Rec-709 after the colour grading nodes. 1. The reason this is good practice is it creates a consistent colour space to grade in. Every camera has footage in a different colour space, so pipeing them all into one working colour space will allow you to use the colour grading tools in the same way for all the footage including LUTs etc designed for your working colour space. 2. A davinci wide gamut working colour space is a much larger colour space than Rec709 2.4 so you can get the most out of your footage.
Excellent video. I've been using Davinci for about a year and embarrassingly never understood how to get it to look exactly like the screen after export. I checked out a number of tutorials on the matter and either they weren't 100% accurate or I misunderstood. This was easy to understand and I got the exact output as in Davinci. Thank you.
Wow! Thank you so much! I have literally been pulling my hair out with Vimeo for ages because it wasn’t matching the color I had seeing in Resolve and QuickTime. I tried the sRGB route and others and none of it worked until now. Rec. 709-A output is the special sauce!
colors are still very different after exporting (windows pc). I am exporting footage without any color corrections and grading. So I know, that it is not a video player color shift problem.
Took me a long time to work this out but the only necessary step here is using the "Use Mac display colour profile for viewers" setting. I use a CST node tree to convert to DWG and back to 709 at the end as opposed to colour managed, and export with the Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 tags. It matches correctly in QuickTime regardless of your output codec. I'd recommend against using the Rec.709-A tagging as it can cause issues if you need to move between different operating systems and software (i.e After Effects)
Dear Joshua, I understand this workflow when using a Mac "as the reference display" for the grade. However, I don't understand how to implement it in my specific case. Suppose I want to export a "RU-vid-friendly" video from a timeline that was graded in Rec709 Gamma 2.4 , using a highly accurate calibrated display set to Rec709 G2.4. Is it sufficient, once the grade is complete, to export a Rec709-A for RU-vid delivery? Thank you so much for your answer. Well done for your videos! Love the colours of your setup. Cheers from London
This was P3 without any additional calibration. This technique will make the QuickTime and GUI on Davinci match, but it doesn't mean it is colour accurate because both images still take on the bias of the display.
hi there and thanks for your very informative videos ! This solution seems to work fine ON MAC, but if i take my final clip (the one i exported from Davinci and looks good on Mac) and play it on a PC, i get contrasty and dark images. Is there a solution that could solve the problem crossplatform-wise?
We already did color grading to my videos for shortfilm but after exporting those are dark so as u said i changed settings but it should dark as export but we need to grade again ? Because my old one is not showing
Great walkthrough Joshua,Thanks! (= +1 Subscriber!) Question: I'm coloring a footage shot in FILM and scanned/digitalized into Apple ProRes 422HQ format ..... at this point in project setting what should I choose as INPUT COLOR SPACE? (You chose Black Magic Design Film Gen 5 because of it's BMagic footage you're dealing with...in my case what would you advise to pick?) If anyone has an idea please help, I'm in the middle of this delivery ...THANKS! _Peace from Berlin
Hey mate, thanks for the Q. It's hard to advise what colour space you should use without seeing the footage, and how it was scanned, but if it already has good contrast and saturation you can just choose Rec709 Gamma 2.4 as the input colour space and go from there. Do you know what colour space the film scan was scanned to?
I'm on PC, however, my monitor is calibrated for rec.709 gamma 2.4. With your settings, the videos look a little darker but...they look the same on YT, and VLC as they do on Resolve on my monitor. I was reading that 709-A is really meant for Apple people that use QT or Safari, and for those that watch videos on YT. However, the gamma is 1.96 but for standard HDTV broadcast, rec.709 gamma 2.4 is recommended. On the other hand, I read that a balance for watching on anything is gamma 2.2. Honestly, there is no simple answer. rec709 2.4 is the go-to standard, but rec709-A is a new gamma so that Mac screens and YT match the Resolve Viewer. I tried out your setup with HLG footage, and there wasn't much I had to do other than micro enhancements in the highlights and blacks...very small changes. So, have come across where rec.709-A gamma 1.96 doesn't work and you had to go back to gamma 2.4?
Yeah it's not a simple 1 setting to solve it unfortunately. No i've never noticed a time when 2.4 gives better results than 709-A or even Gamma 2.2. I would export stills from Davinci in a Gamma 2.2 if i'm showing on social, even rendering a 2.2 for social would be good as well. For me a 709-A render matches my reference monitor pretty good.
I have followed your exact settings but my image comes out more saturated and darker, unfortunately. Doing it other ways has made it washed out - still searching for the solution!
So I have found that as I am using a non-Mac monitor via the BM UltraStudio Monitor that if I DON'T check the "Use Mac display color profiles for viewers" then I don't get a gamma shift when I render out, I do make sure the Gamma Tag is Rec709, however. I have now found a different issue where when I grab a still it too has a gamma shift - this never has happened before in years of using Resolve...
Great video Joshua! Been following for some time. Quick question! How do you get ACCURATE still image exports? I can’t find any video on it and it’s making me scratch my head. The only solution I’ve come across is taking it into photoshop and assigning the color profile but what if people don’t have photoshop anymore? (Like me) lol any help with this is great thanks man!
If you are grading in with an output of Rec709 2.4 you can try changing your output gamma to 2.2 before grabbing a still and exporting it in the colour page. Make sure to convert your output back to 2.4 after. 2.2 is more suited for online / social.
I had the blessing and curse of finding Cullen’s color management theory first in my journey of learning Resolve. The curse is that 90% of tutorials are less applicable because they’re not putting the thought and structure Cullen does to color management and space transforms. I was so pleasantly surprised to see you set up DWG and Cullen’s three nodes. Thank you for the brilliant tutorial it was a life saver 😊
Great but why SDR 100 when you can put HDR 1000 or more nits? You can have a lot more flexibilty in the dynamic range and good highlight recovery. In general when i put HDR 1000 (with timeline color space DWG) , my wheels feel different. When I put the global exposure down it's much more natural!
Hello again! In fact i don't know what is "correct". I ve watched some colorists put sdr 100 other hdr 1000 or more nits. In fact the controls feel different but it only helps for highlight recovery. Now that i work with nodes and cst's I just leave it in tone mapping davinci and 100 nits and i am ok. I guess Timeline working luminance can be HDR when you are working with HDR footage? I don't know exactly.
Hi Joshua! What should I do if I’ve already colour graded all of my footage? Now if I select ‘use Mac display colour profiles’, my clips in the timeline goes desaturated and I really don’t want to regrade them again😢
If you don't want to have to go back through everything you could apply a trim node on the end of your timeline node tree that will effect everything on the timeline. This could add some extra contrast.
t works amazing! But I have a bigger problem, what if I already color graded the video and just noticed that I have to make that change to the computer, Is there an output lut or something I can do so I don't have to re color grade? Thanks again
Hey Joshua, Thank You for your contents I have just subscribed here , I was wondering if you have a video explain us how to correctly set up a broadcast monitor calibrated I have a small HD17 P3x 1920x1080 its accepts SDI IN and is calibrated for DCI P3 gamma 2.4 DCI white from factory so I have a Blackmagic UltraStudio Monitor 3G thunderbolt connected I need to grade for Cinema and for Web what's do you suggest ? thank you in advance!
Do you know how to properly use Rec709 LUTs within DWG Intermediate workflow? I haven't tried Cullen''s LUTs yet but I'm generally not happy with the idea - "your Rec709 LUTs won't work, only use mine"... I tried stacking a bunch of CSTs to have a spot of Rec709 space to apply my LUTs at - Source into DWG for grading / DWG into Rec709 for the LUT -> Rec709 into Rec709-A for Output. I achieved some result but I just hate knowing that I don't fully understand whether it's accurate or not. Especially considering that it's not quite clear where you need to apply forward OOTF in that chain. If it's one node - clear, applied on the first conversion from Scene to Display, but in that chain, especially from Rec709 to Rec709-A - I don't know. And the result changes quite a bit whether you press it on DWG to Rec709 CST or at the end. Any thoughts on that?
Great work all around here, sir. I really enjoyed this and a couple of other videos of yours. I want to invite you to a brand new Resolve group I am starting. The goal would be to make the best Davinci Resolve group on the internet. (It's not a Facebook group) Iove to have you over and get your thoughts on the project. If possible please let me know. If not fair enough sir and keep making this videos.
Great video. What is the resolution that you upload to RU-vid? HD? 4K? I uploaded an HD video but it is not that sharp compared to what I see in Resolve. What am I doing wrong?
Hello! I guess youtube and most platforms compress every video or photo , i have experienced the same on instagram when i was exporting a still from davinci to upload on instagram, it was not as shrap as in davinci. So in your case a Full HD export is ok. A little amount of compression is inevitable
i use this settings, for 1080p on youtube works perfectly. exactly like my export from davinci. but when i upload the same video in 4k resolution from davinci on youtube it changes the colors a lot. i can't understand whats happening. is the same settings, just resolution is different.
I just read in a forum about people having the same problem. 1080p without color shift and 4K leaning towards magenta on youtube. They said it's because of Chrome, and it's true! I opened the 4K video from RU-vid in Firefox, and it's perfect!!! Exactly as I exported it... I'm confused since most people use Chrome.
Good to know. Yeah colour management is out of our control once you upload it online. Every video player and web browser will have their own settings that could affect the output.
Fantastic concise, all in one video regarding monitoring and outputting delivery of the all important colour space. There are a gazillion videos out there regarding conversion of log footage to colour grading, but rarely does anyone approach the most important aspect of colour science in a clear and concise way. This video is absolute gold dust for video editors. I have worked in film and broadcast television for over 30 years and the world of colour space for cameras and edit suites has NEVER been so complex. Thank you Joshua. I look forward to watching more colour space related videos. Something which seems missing from RU-vid that you may consider making is a video aimed at independent film-makers working on a project shot with NON-LOG footage but aiming to get the best colour and gamma settings for their "baked in" RGB non-log footage and getting the most out of Davinci Resolve from that footage for export for DCP, Blu-Ray and VOD/RU-vid. No video exists for this and yet it is probably the most common scenario within an independent edit suite environment.
I have been looking at this whole issue with a Mac Studio. I am trying to workout if this is only an issue for Macs with a built in screen (eg Macbook Pro) or if it also an issue when using a non apple monitor over HDMI? It sounds to me like the best workflow is to use a blackmagic monitoring output ( eg ultrastudio device) then set the output colorspace to rec.709 gamma 2.4 and color grade on a calibrated monitor. Am I correct that would lead to the most widely consistent results across multiple platforms?
Short answer: Any display hooked up to the Mac regardless of brand will experience this issue. Long answer: I'm using a MacBook Pro 16" connected to a Studio Display (via thunderbolt) and a 27" Lenovo monitor (via HDMI). I can validate that today I used this Rec 709-A workflow and it fixed all of my problems on all three displays. I'm not qualified to answer this technically, but my understanding is it has nothing to do with the displays...it has to do with the way Mac OS & Quicktime interpret color due to the tags on the video clips. Therefore, even if it's a different branded monitor, it's still Mac OS that's interpreting the video being sent to it. I tested this by opening DaVinci Resolve on the Lenovo monitor and then side by side compared the video in the Davinci viewer to the exported video in Quicktime, Firefox, and in RU-vid (I uploaded a test video) and all of them looked identical on that screen. I performed the same test on the Studio Display & on the MacBook. Yes, an IO device to a calibrated display is the 100% accurate option. Especially when big clients have specific requests. But until then, we can get 90% of the way there without it too. The following info is just for anyone random that comes along and has follow-up questions for what I'm doing. Hopefully the past 2 days of research can be passed forward lol 1) General > check "Use Mac display color profiles for viewers" 2) Project Settings > Color science: DaVinci YRGB, Timeline color space: DaVinciWG/Intermediate, Output color space: Rec.709-A 3) Deliver Settings > Color Space Tag: Same as Project, Gamma Tag: Same as Project In this project, I used various CST's and LUT's and experienced no issues
Yes, Andrew that's correct! Having an Ultrastudio output into a calibrated Reference Monitor is the standard for accurate colour. You will still have to export your videos using a Rec709-A tag for an accurate representation on quicktime.
Hi Jeffrey - You could use the exact same settings as I do explained from 3:40 in the video except for the 'Input Color Space' which you can choose 'Canon Cinema Gamut/Canon Log2' in the drop down menu. You could play with 'Log' or 'Log3' as well as alternatives as well. This will transform your camera log footage into the Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate Working Space. Hope that helps!
Thank you for the explanation! One Question, do you also notice a difference between Gui and Cleanfeed when switching Mac Display Profiles on? With this workflow i feel like my Cleanfeed Reference is now off? Maybe you know the solution? Cheers!
So I've noticed since my last video that now when I export it is super washed out and the contrast has gone. I've tried various YT tutorials and read articles about different settings but still getting the same result. There is a slight colour shift which I understand but why hasn't my blacks/contrast come through? It's really really strange. Any advice, much appreciated 🥲
Nice video but I think these settings are ok if your on a Mac as from what am led to believe rec 709a is used by Mac users, so would all the settings work on windows or not.
Hello. What would be the best video player for accurate color representation? You mention watching your clip in Quicktime Player. Monst peole on PC use VCL player. I myself also often use the MPC Player. It was discontinued in 2017, but i realy like it for different reasons. So what would be your advice for PC users to view their rendered clips? Thanks
interesting how you teach us to accurate exports and all color staff but yourself was not able color grade your own video without crashing colors on your arms :)) lol , ill still watch a video bro. but fix that for a future
Why do you put the Timeline working luminance to SDR 100? We have a canon R5 and the default settings is HDR 1000, so we are not sure what the correct settings should be.. thanks in advance!
I had it set to SDR 100 for the sake of this example, but would often grade in a higher setting. You can also click custom and choose up to 10,000. The more headroom you have the more your extreme exposures will roll off better before absolutely clipping. It just effects the way the image is controlled while grading. I would set it higher most of the time.
I don't have any of these "Input Color Space" or "Limit Output Gamut to" drop down menus at all. And I can't set any sort of custom setting like you could in this video. All I have under Color Management is Color Science, Timeline Color Space, and Output Color Space, but still, no "custom" option. I can't see anything on my Color Management page that you see below Timeline Color Space.
I am getting really frustrated. I wanted to put my travel clip together, I changed everything as said in yours and other creators videos, but after rendering videos are still washed out. I changed settings, reset computer, started davinci resolve again and again on and... nothing. even my colors don't change in the program changing settings as it appears in your or other youtubers videos... I am feeling hopeless... I just wanted to do a nice souvenir from our trip, but colors are more washed out than in original videos even and all clips were recorded with the same gopro settings... any ideas? thanks a lot for your work and here is my subscriptioon :)
Hey sorry you are having issues with this. Have you tried right clicking on these clips in the colour page and changing the 'input colour space'. Try going through the different options and see if that changes anything for you.
@@JoshuaKirkNZ hmm, I checked so many tutorials, but I guess I didn't right click on anything yet, so I will try. Thank you very much for your response ☺️
Joshua, this is an outstanding video, and was a perfect match for the workflow I’m trying to get to. I made a few changes to Resolve settings based on your recommendations. Can you share what you use as your color grading monitor and I/O device between your Mac and that monitor? That is the next investment I’ll be making so I’m looking for recommendations. Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! I use a Flanders Scientific DM240 reference monitor and a BlackMAgic Ultrastudio Monitor 3G output card. The reference monitor is an older 1080p display but is really great peace of mind when grading.
Hey mate, thanks for the video! I just had one question... At 4:09 - what if I have purposefully overexposed my slog3 footage by 1.66 stops, and need to reduce that before converting from log3 to rec709? If I do these settings here, and set the color science to: Davinci YRGB Color Managed (and select slog3 etc as my input color space) do I then lose the option to reduce the exposure before the conversion is done?
Hey thanks for the watch! No, if you just reduce the exposure in any node it will be effecting the image before the rec709 conversion. In a color managed workflow, DWG to Rec709 is the final transform after all of your adjustments.
@JoshuaKirkNZ Thanks for that. But I may not have been clear. Can I double check: My footage is shot in Slog3, overexposed by 1.66 stops. So, it's my understanding that the footage needs to have the exposure corrected PRIOR to being converted to anything else, such as DWG(?), so that the exposure is set to the recommended level for footage shot in log. I seem to be getting very different looking footage when I do A) Leave the settings as defaul, and convert using a Color Space Transform node (With an additional node placed ahead of the transform which just brings down the exposure). and B) Following the above, and putting a exposure adjustment in the first bit of the chain... I wonder if I'm doing it wrong?
