Man your lucky only your fuse got blown! The Power regulation on the C16 is known quirky. It relies on a 7805 regulator that is often aging and failing, while CPU and TED are known to be very sensitive about voltage. This is a mod I suggest strongly: Remove the 7805 (the three pin element on the cooling element right of the cpu), along with the cooler. Replace it with a modern 5v step down regulator. There is pin compatible versions and 1A models should do very well. Also remove the big ceramic resistor R10 entirely. That way your C16 should require lesser power, produce way lesser heat and live longer. Personally a added small heat sinks to CPU and TED for precaution as well. If you ever consider using a original power supply, above mod is mandatory to prevent certain death. Also replace the 4.7K capacitor inside the power brick with a new one, they likely leak after 30 years. Same goes for visually bad capacitors on the C16 board itself.
It's good that you kept the power issue in this video. It's fair warning to anyone not to take polarity for granted with those DC barrel jacks. I remember reading the C16 spec back when I got my C64 and wondering why the latter had only 16 colours. A C64 with a larger pallet would have been magic.
Great video as always mate. Top work on the 64K mod, looks really simple - I need to get around to upgrading mine. Good spot on the shady eBay seller, I've always just used a Sega Megadrive PSU for mine which works fine. It's definitely worth adding some heatsinks to TED and the CPU too, they're notorious for overheating and destroying themselves.
My first computer en 1985. Thanks to this computer, I learned in addition to the Basic language, the difficult assembly language that was incorporated into the ROM of this computer. A pleasant memory. I still have it, but with problems with the image tuner. Only that. Thank you for this video :)
Here's a suggestion: Instead of just calling it a "Restoration Project" rather call it "Restoration, Quick Overview & RAM Upgrade" to give people who are looking out for stuff like that an instant "Aha, he's doing that!" :)
Good that Commodore probably fitted a diode reverse biased between the 9v and ground there - that's likely why the fuse blew with reverse polarity! I would be tempted to remove the shielding and individually heat sink chips there - I never like those cages as they spread the heat and trap a lot of heat underneath them at the same time, but that's just a preference thing I guess. They are probably OK with the shielding as a heat spreader, but the TED does die a fair bit from heat problems though. Lovely machine but the C16 and +4 never appealed to me as they just felt like mistakes when compared to the C64. I actually feel like the games on the VIC-20 were better. Commodore had so many missed oportunities. Maybe if they had put a SID in there that could have made a huge difference to the sales.
My C16 came with the cardboard-shielding, so it didn't even have a tab to cool the TED. During usage, CPU and TED got so hot that you couldn't even touch them anymore. On the bottom of the case, the C16 got just as warm as a cheap notebook would do. So I installed heatsinks on CPU, TED and PLA and also some smaller BGA-vRAM-heatsinks on the ROMs and now everything stays nice and cool during usage. This also allowed me to keep the shielding on; it still stayed cool enough. But yeah... I'd really recommend to install heatsinks, as it should really add to the longevity of your system, especially since the TED and the CPU of the C16 are known for dying due to overheating.
VGA RAM heatsinks (14 mm × 14 mm footprint) should be good for the job. Aluminium ones cost a dime a dozen, and the thermal glue on them is usually good enough, though you can always put proper thermal compound on them.
For the CPU, PLA and TED I bought a large heatsink I cut myself into smaller pieces to fit the chips. For them, vRAM heatsinks aren't enough imho; they run much hotter with them than they do with heatsinks covering the whole area. I used thermal adhesive tape to stick them down, and to be on the secure side, also tied them down using a thin kynar wire. They still fit on their sockets perfectly when you use wire such as AWG30 kynar. BTW: You should also replace the thermal grease under the 7805 or even replace the whole 7805 with a modern buck converter. Pin-compatible TO-220 buck converter modules do exist for exactly the purpose of using them as a replacement for 7805 regulators.
Love the colour scheme of this machine. Looks really nice! It was always a bit of an underdog in the U.K. but I still like this computer. You might want to heatsink the TED and CPU. They have a nasty habit of cooking at this tender age!
Just to mention: last year a prototype of the C16 (maybe the only one existing?) showed up on Ebay. Mainboard was completely different (single sided) and huge. The case was a painted C64 case with modifications. After being confirmed by Bil Herd himself that it was real, the "new" owner gave it to a computer museum. Too bad...if another one shows up someday, just call me, thanks :)
The C16 and Plus4 were blunders by Commodore. They had an improved BASIC and more colors, but virtually everything else about them was a step backwards. They created these machines to fill a market that didn't really exist. The C64 was already the next step up from the VIC-20 and was being used for most of the serious applications that the Plus4 was meant for.
I highly suggest to wear an antistatic wrist wrap while dealing with ICs. Also you got really lucky that only the fuse got blown. Recently I got a C116 to restore from ebay and literally all ICs were dead. The reason (I assume) was a wrong polarity and therefore bad voltage regulator which killed all the other ICs... Was a pretty expensive repair in the end, but I got it back working. :-) Keep up your good work!!
10:30 or thereabouts- That thermal paste was there for a reason. You should've applied new thermal paste before putting the shield back on. Not doing that can shorten the life of the (rare and) fragile TED chip because it can overheat, and/or it endures more strenuous thermal cycles.
I watched multiple videos on your channel and I have got to say I absolutely love your content. Especially the modding and rejuvinating timeless hardware. The closest thing I came to that, was when my orignal 60Gig PS3 went YLOD and I "reflowed its BGAs" worked fine for a couple months then died again, my guesses are now that I think of it today, either A. I didn't apply sufficient amount of Thermal Paste (Arctic Silver 5) or B. It just gave up at the very end. Look forward to watching more :) Thanks
My first computer/well I mean my Brothers first computer.. My memorable game was Squirm... I was only a little kid when we had it, then few years later my Bro updated to the Commodore 128... I own a C64 but would love a C16 for nostalgic reasons..
Good stuff mate, this was my very first computer was £49.99 xmas 85 i think , some great little games on this system you must checkout kickstart and fire ant and tutti fruti, not sure how they hold up today but i have fond memory's playing those :)
Should hold the compressed air can at a more level orientation, so it doesn't spray the cold liquid out... it's ability to blow dust off isn't helped by that, not to mention, if there was any power left in those components it wouldn't be good for their health either.
Colin Stuart That was my thought too. The cold co2 can actually pop cold soldier joints. The liquid is not supposed to come out; if it does, you're not using it correctly.
Agreed. That was plain stupid.Should not be part of a 'full restoration'. The first hint about the technical incompetence was the cheap-ass screwdriver used in the first shots.
I really love the C16 for some odd reason despite never having one and knowing its weaknesses. And yes, while I do agree that it's the baby brother of the C64, I'd also say that it's more eloquent as IIRC it has a more advanced BASIC.
Very nicely done! The C16 is a great machine. It's funny seeing that H-L switch on the back - PAL machines never had that, as you most likely know. The C16 was the machine I initially wanted as a kid, because I was in love with the looks of it. Yes, I didn't think about what it could or couldn't do, I just liked that charcoal grey color the case had, lol.. But my cousin persuaded me to go for the C64 instead, which I guess was a wise move. But having one nowadays is great! I also have the 64k mod (switchable, for the few games that can't handle 64k). Again, nicely done! :o)
Always always always check the specs yourself and make sure it's the right voltage, connector (And polarity!) etc yourself. Those eBay sellers are often selling extra stock of cheap phone/whatever else chargers and sell it as "uses x connector at y volts, device only uses z mA of power and the adapter can do 1A so we're good" either way so it pays to double check that yourself.
When I was a kid, I begged my mother for a Commodore64 , instead she got me a C16, but when I found out that I couldn't play C64 games😩, I was so looking forward to swapping games with my friends who had C64's...instead I was stuck with Naff games like "punch"...eventually my friends and I all got ZX spectrums.
Mac Flex - same story mate ...exactly the same story..The guy in the shop actually lied and said they were compatible- he also said I was able to ‘upgrade’ which was technologically true but involved doing shit that 1-I has no idea what I was doing 2- with all the shit I’d have to buy I may as well have paid extra and got the C64. I felt like the ‘poor kid’ in the area! There were about five games and the graphics seemed so much poorer than my mates 64’s - also I couldn’t get any of the cool joy sticks as they weren’t compatible either ! Gutted.
C16 was my first computer, my grandad bought it and eventually gave it to me. I only ever played games on it, my cousin on the other hand composed a rendition of happy birthday on it and wrote a program called tesco shopper, which totally pre-supposed the Internet shopping experience....... I am now a bum, my cousin is an engineer for the Mercedes F1 team. Go figure.
I must admit I was screaming "polarity!" as soon as I saw the power supply. Most of the computers in the 1980s that used 2.5mm barrel jacks were centre negative. Very annoying.
That was a usual feature of most hardware back then cause they did tend to use battery power also. Using that connector with negative polarity inside could mechanically disconnect DC voltage from battery usage at the same time without any special circuit required and ofc can be done cheaply.
This is true, but computers such as the C16 didn't run from battery power. Even in 84 the normal standard was centre positive for mains-only devices. It's simple enough to pull power supplies apart and resolder the wires though. Just irritating to have to do so.
Very nice video. At the time they were released, I was deep into C64 land. Everyone I knew that had C64s viewed the C/16 and Plus/4 as a joke. I don't have a C16 but I did pick up a few Plus 4's a couple of years ago that did not work and both of them had bad CPUs. I think the TED and the CPU in the Plus4/C16 were some of the worst chips, from a reliability standpoint, that Commodore ever produced. Those and the MOS 77xx logic replacement chips that they made were really poor. It is an interesting computer for what it is and the BASIC, ML Monitor, Reset button and added colors are the only thing that stand out to me as cool features now. But, yeah back then it was a joke here in the USA.
ram chips you marked in the vid are actually the ones to the right of those parts in the video luckily you can see which ones they are and the video doesnt really explain how to do the modification in any detail ,so its not really a problem
Got a c16 and has a problem. When on there is text and a screen but after 30 seconds the text just bleeds together. For example type an 'h' will turn to a solid rectangle. Weird effect. Any ideas?
Really nothing should be powered up without replacing all the caps and regulators. They could fail any random time now. When they do uncontrolled volts will play Russian Roulette with the chips. Its what they do on very old cars too. Replace then try to start.
Problem with this series of computers is the chips are very fragile and the cost of replacing them will often cost you more than a complete unit. The C16 keyboard is easier to work with than that ones used in the Plus/4 and C116 which have very delicate ribbon cables which require great care because t he contacts on t he ribbon will separate from the ribbon. Repairing these is pretty straight forward but honestly its the most frustrating series of machines to grace my workbench so I just avoid them at all cost. The original intention for the machines was novel but CBM Marketing really screwed the pooch with them.
Great job! I know the C16 get a bit of hate but I love it and the Plus 4! I was nearly bought one back in the day but ended up with a Toshiba MSX instead. ;)
Good stuff! Somehow I missed this video when it was first posted. I have to laugh at Commodore choosing to make incompatible ports compared to the C64. At least Atari had the decency to standardize their IO (mostly) among their 8 bit models.
Nice work mate 🖒 Had a weird power issue with my c64 few months back .....it had been on for hours as had a friend over for a gaming night .....the power brick had got really hot and suddenly nothing would load , changed tape decks twice and same problem......turns out it killed my tape decks as nothing worked on them after that , next day used a friends power supply and a friends tape deck with my c64 and it worked , tried my tape decks on his c64 and nothing loaded , I've heard those old style power bricks can fail and stop sending the correct current to the machine ? So I'm guessing it sent a surge to the tape decks and damaged them? All is good now as have a new refurbished power supply , a spare C64 and 3 refurbished tape decks :)
Well it's an oddity, you want more performance than a VIC-20 but less than a C64, well we have the machine for you? ^_^ Jack was a bit of a lunatic making this model what with all the compatibility differences, like why mini DIN or proprietary cart slot Tramiel? Third party AC, yep tread carefully and that's what fuses are good for heh. Great job, turned out awesome.
I wonder how many C16s have been fried (as far as non-techie users are concerned who wouldn't know what to do to fix it) by one of those so-called "Commodore C16 Replacement Power Supply" from ebay seller yourcartmax. Did you notify the seller, not that a Chinese seller would do anything about it from my experience?
Ironically sales of this machine took off once its price was reduced to under £50 which was supposed to be the price they were looking to sell it at when it was in development. Jack told them go away and build me a computer for under £50 and then management sabotaged it by trying to sell it at £100 at launch the idiots. This is off the top of my head so may have figures a bit wrong but the brief was to build a budget computer to sell at £50
So, the correct polarity on the PSU should be the negative wire connected to the outside line and the positive wire connected on the middle pin, right?
First thing I ever owned that could okay games. Remember coding a jaws game from a book back in the day. Book had an amazing picture of a skull on it. /sigh
A quick question; Because you upgraded the RAM chips on the MOBO, what effect would plugging in an 'official' RAM expander CART have on available system RAM? Can the CPU address more than 64k? I'm curious.
So : it's not compatible with either the Vic 20 nor the Commodore 64? That seems like a big mistake... so I was scratching my head, trying to figure out which market that computer is trying to appeal to, and I think I found it : gaming. It had to be sold primarily as a cheap gaming machine.The number of sprites usable on screen at once, as well as the number of colors, is actually quite nice. So that must've been the market it was aiming. But were there even a lot of games released for this machine(and the plus 4, as from what I understand they are compatible between one another)?
It had no hardware sprites whatsoever, hardware scroll, raster interrupts or any of those thing that made C64 a great gaming machine. The sound generator was inferior to SID and extended color palette was very difficult to use.
The C16 is pretty much unknown territory to me. So can it play +4 games out of the box or is that what you needed the 64k mod for? Also out of curiosity, is the keyboard connector the same as for the C64 so for example one could use these machines with the keyrah V2? Great restoration there but it also shows how dangerous third party stuff can be when picking up such from eBay or other places.
the C16 and Plus4 are identical except for RAM. Many +4 games wont work on a C16 for this reason. hence the ram upgrade. I believe the kb connector is the same yes - but id check some pinout diagrams on that
Oh that's interesting because I used to have a +4 back when I was little along with a tape drive and joystick adapter for Atari joysticks. Used to play Snoopy on that thing, that's my earliest memory of computers if not playing Ocean Donkey Kong, Wheel of Fortune and River Raid with my parents on the C64. Guess I'm going to do a bit of research then later on, so thanks for the quick reply!
I guess he meant if an unshielded thing still would interfere with other devices in your home (or your neighbours'). Earlier you had analog TV, you listened to radio, even AM radio. I dont think an unshielded unit would interfere with anything significant in this day and age - unless your neighbour is old/nostalgic and likes to listen to AM radio when drinking his evening tea.. like me. I'm 38 and there is absolutely no sense in it but I sometimes grab my father's radio and listen to AM/LM/shortwave stations because I find it kind of fascinating.
There's uncle Jack for ya, hey lets release a low cost entry level computer that is 100% totally incompatible with our previous entry level model and also our flagship model. That way when the consumer wants to do more, they have to start totally from scratch and tossing all their old stuff in the garbage! Nothing secures repeat customers than FK-ing them in the A$$ for putting faith in a brand platform! Thank god the C= crew got past that and became a major player in the modern age.
IMHO cleaning the machine and purchasing a power supply for it doesn't really count as "restoration", but meh, it's an interesting machine and there really isn't too much content around the internet about it. However, you didn't tell us any specific details about the memory upgrade, only a vague short mention that "it's simple to do" and "the parts are cheap". For me that would've been the most interesting part of the video; to know what you specifically did to upgrade it.
Well, I suppose that's a matter of preference. For nerds like me (and probably many other viewers as well), that would be entertaining to see. Of course one can find the info off the web by searching for it just like you did, but the reason why people watch these kinds of videos is so that they wouldn't have to. At least, I do :)
STOP using the compressed air like that. use it in short bursts. then if it gets cold and the pressure gets low warm it up in warm water. you could seriously damage the components by having them crack. you know thermodynamics? it doesn't matter no one will read this comment. and everyone seems to think everything i say is a direct attack on their manhood.
Actually I read it, and it's a fair critique. I learned that lesson a long time ago when I first started building and repairing custom PCs. Geez, I still have two fully functional C64's sitting in my closet... I wonder how filthy they've gotten? Maybe one of these days I'll get them out again...
windows xpnt sounds like a reworking of my old amiga chip tune called (boringly) Loader1 from the early 90s... search around RU-vid for dimensionX or anthrax intros and you might find the original. Or an Amiga module site of course.
jesus christ. I've watched about two dozen of your videos; and I noticed this one had a computer with a pound key, and I JUST NOW noticed you are british*. I guess I listen to too many brits on youtube. *you actually sound almost australian to me for some reason? my point was I didn't notice your accent for a shockingly long time. (I am Canadian)
Does this really qualify as a restoration? Clean the case and keyboard, buy the wrong PSU, change the fuse, buy the correct PSU, add some peripherals. Hmm. Seems lacking.
