I had to return two ko2s but did have fun with them before they broke. The sp404 is a beast. The new update just changed the game for how I make music.
@rochefsky the second one I got, just stopped making sound, and the first had connectivity issues with my computer or fl studio. It was cool. Drag and drop feature with the sp404 is a life savor
Yes the SP404 is a machine that can do whatever you need it to do! Some machines are one dimensional but the SP can be your primary sampler, or primary effects…your live performance box, or you can use it how I do as a sound module. I store all my drums and instruments sounds on an SD card and use it like that! In the future I’ll dabble more into the features included in the new update!!
Yeah they are both samplers, but I feel like both fill a different niche. 404 is for people who love to work with samples, where the 133 is for people who hate working with samples. Sampling to me is tedious, so I prefer the simplicity of the 133 work flow.
@@iShredStreets The K.O. II is alright, compared to a Digitakt regarding sampling, however there's no side chain in the KO, so I bounce that to the DAW (I produce mainly house and lofi). Just trim while holding shift and have a decent ear for manual chopping.
@@beatsandstuff I'm thinking of selling the K.O. II. I've started using Renoise and I'm getting much more done than with the K.O. II. Meanwhile the K.O. II is collecting dust. I like the clicky buttons on it though.
Prices seem to fluctuate almost on a per day basis. Got my SP a couple of weeks ago 449 (EUR, incl. 19% tax) where the KO would have cost me 379, too. But the latter is now 349 where the Roland is 479, I guess due to higher demand and availability. At first the KO looked so fast and more creative, but after all I’m very pleased with my choice for the seemingly complicated SP… but muscle-memorizing and navigating the shortcuts walhalla became a breeze after two to three weeks of playing with the ‘instrument’. And, videos like these were extremely helpful in the process. So thanks, as you compare both objectively and very clear 👌🏻
I have both I like the simplicity and how fast the ep 133 is to make a beat, on the other hand I prefer the sp404 is way more complex and I can make full tracks with it I just wish it was a tad smaller
With 4.04 update... Sorry but SP crushes the EP. Also it reads One full TB of SD Card now. And the sound generator in 4.04 update makes a sick sine wave bass.
After purchasing SP404mk2, I realized that MPC live2 was a better device than I thought. However, SP404 ii was much lighter than expected. Including the maschine drum, I already have three drum machines, but I was curious about the KO2 again.
With all the devices I’ve used, I’ve still not tried any NI/masculine instruments and still haven’t gotten my hands on an MPC! (But I did have the Akai Force for a while). KO2 is definitely in a different class than many of those - simpler, less power, but still inspiring for musical ideas.
I've the sp404mk2 and yes it's great, it's now packed with features thanks to 4.04 update. But I also have the original MPC LIVE, also packed with features, and portability. I use the mpc live much more to be honest, I just find it easier to chop and deal with samples. I'd definitely be using the sp404 software to load up the samples, where you can set all specifications. 404 is curious, it's heritage of a sampling line, yet they've pushed it so far it's into mpc like abilities with added features. Starting to think the 404mk2 can't even really be considered to much like it's predecessors now.
Dude I need this video right now. I use koala a lot and have recently gotten my hands on the ep133… still learning it but I am highly intrigued with the sp404 mk 2. Gonna enjoy this video with my breakfast this morning. Thanks for making it!
Happy it’s timely for you! I’ve had the SP-404 for a while but not using enough recently until the 4.04 update - which, of course, specifically integrates with Koala now! Enjoy breakfast! 🍳 😆
I recently got an akai one+ . And it’s sample heaven. Although yeah the drumming is great on there . I still myself drumming on my ep and MIDI it to the akai. And it’s my best workflow atleast that’s what works for me. But I find myself using my sp404 less and less. The new update is badass tho.
As someone who get a KO2 as their first piece of hardware, then realized, oops, the single FX situation and no send-to-self is very limiting for what I want to do (heavily sample based), BUT loving the portability and “creativity focus” of the KO2… what’s the one piece of hardware you’d suggest pairing with a KO2 to help with those deficiencies? Maybe the answer is just the SP404 … but maybe there is something cheaper? I’m already happy with many of the KO2s features and actually like many of its constraints…
I’m trying the Roland MC-101 more recently and it’s an incredibly powerful instrument in a portable package… I am not near it at the moment so do t remember if it sends I put audio through the effects but I think it has that option - check me on that
Very nice explanation. I believe it’s all in the hands of the user. I absolutely love the looks of the KO2, and find the design of the Sp404 kind of ugly, but I bought it anyway and love it. It is also very portable.
Much like life. The ugly ones work harder and are very flexible. The pretty ones don't try as hard and have performance issues. 😉 The ugly ones get better over time because they want to be "keepers" and the work hard at upgrading. The pretty ones are perfectly happy with their limitations and expect you to change to accommodate them. Functional productive and value with one. Easy on the eyes and lightweight with the other. Just droppin' some life lessons along with the great video! LOL
404’s went down in price across the board, especially used units in big cities. Now that the new update is out, I wonder if I’ll start seeing more for $400 again? Everything in my town is sub $400 currently.
The 404 is basically 5X the device for $200 more. If you're making a basic sample-based beat, they both can do that, but the 404 is a whole sound design and live performance platform that does stuff the KO could never do. Also, neither of these are 'grooveboxes'....they're tabletop phrase samplers. The groovebox concept has always been a synth engine (usually based on the company's current workstation engine) with 'dance' oriented presets, combined with a sequencer and knobby control surface. Sampling is usually a side-feature or not there at all.
💯 on the disproportionate differences of features vs money… I always think of a “groovebox” as an all in one device - make/tweak sounds on board and create patterns … so sequencing with onboard sounds… regardless of whether the sounds are synth-engine generated or sampled… and some do both. Wikipedia lets me call it a Groovebox regardless of sound source 😆
@@rochefsky Roland invented term 'groovebox' in the 90's. They may even have it trademarked as I don't think I've seen a non-Roland product have 'groovebox' listed on the front panel. There's a reason the 404 is Roland SP not a Roland MC-groovebox...to them it's a different product category. But hey...you can call them whatever you want: Drum thingy...fart box...lol. Maybe it's just one of those ubiquitous product names that eventually has a generic meaning like Kleenex (a face tissue), Xerox (a photocopy), Hoover (to vacuum), or Google (to search online).
@@TYBO-xl1xz It’s just an internal oscillator (sound generator) not a full synth really. You can sample it or chain FX on top but it’s not like having a full synth voice with an envelope, modulation, VCA, etc. much less presets. Still very cool to have for building your own samples and experimenting though.
For someone just getting into this stuff, little music experience besides making trap beats on Fl for a very short amount of time, what’s the better option out of the two for a beginner? If either?
If you’re committed to grow your system/Studio, I the SP404 has huge long term value and is incredibly powerful…. And if you elegant something to just inspire beat ideas on the go, the EP133 is super useful and fun!
I’d vote upgrade your FL version, then consider something like the rc-20 vst to get the lofi vibes and skip both machines if you want to stay in trap. The 404 is probably better at getting the overall sound and retrigs between it and the KO, but programming them is a bit fiddly. Full disclosure though, I like boom bap and trip hop and end up using the 404 more than the other 2.
@@mattc556 I didn’t say in my original comment but I stopped altogether because I didn’t like staring at a screen. And I’m interested in groove boxes for this reason, and I don’t necessarily need to keep making trap but more or less casually making anything I like. Sorry if I’m all over the place lol
@@greghoskins9237 This makes perfect sense to me :) I’m pretty much always trying to get to a piece of HW that’s inspiring while still being able to get what’s in my head out. A straight DAW is, on paper, the right look for me but I just cant get enough vibes from a mouse. In all honesty, I always return to the Live 2 as the most able to meet this on its own. It does _everything_ and it’s battery powered. Given the clarification - If i was moving off of FL and onto only one of these 2 boxes, 404 hands down. I would instead move to a Live 2, and add one of these. Then its more which one calls to you, if that makes sense. I can’t help but fanboy TE, so I think I’d do LIVE 2 + KO. Or at least today thats my answer.
In France the KO2 is €350 compared to €450 for the SP404mk2. Only €100 difference... choose the SP. The KO2's only advantage might have been its weight and size, but because of its poor build quality, it won't stay in one piece in your backpack for long.
@@TwinCitiesOxygen The studio-focused sampler that does key groups, multilayers, velocity switching, etc. is pretty rare these days. Most folks just use software for that kind of stuff. I'd look at the current MPC range or perhaps the sampling functions in high-end workstation keyboards.
Not even close. I don't like my ep 133 at all. The only thing I enjoy about it is the way the keys feel. Probably because I made beats on FL studio using my laptop keyboard for years. But yeah biggest regret in my studio. 😅 From the moment it came out of the box I was unimpressed. Felt cheap, the knobs barely fit. The fader came with a protective plastic guard that had to be heated to finally remove. The stock knob didn't fit, the one i bought on etsy didn't fit. Only a lego technic peice fit. It's going to my baby girl for a toy to play with. I love the SP 404 mk2 so much I stopped using my MPC and bought some older SP models.
@@user-mb8rf7qk5q yes, I can see that’s a great combo, too. Also for the MIDI capabilities of the KO 👍🏻 for which I’m experimenting with the SP and Polyend Play OG combo.
SP 404 has had over a decade of reiteration. I think Teenage Engineering is more of a lifestyle company rather than pro audio. The only pluses for the KO are the aesthetics and smaller size.
Fair points - I think the nuance positive characteristic of the KO II is the simplicity with which someone can make quick, and still inspiring, beats/music... but comparing to the SP404, I put two different weight classes in the same ring...
@@Halfbit_0 Ah! I've never paid enough attention to the difference since I've never been involved in any projects where Gigabits were important (and have been in tech professionally for decades LOL)... but thank you for pointing that out - and to @johnsobota6234 too - as I didn't even realize they were correcting me in their comment!
@@leftmono1016 well, not the po's but like the channel mixer etc. Also Po's has gone up in price because i bought them for like 79 and now they like 99 euro and to be honest i think its a toy so thats why i sold them.
Interesting you say that, Chameleon. I have the PO-33 and liked it for a while, but the dinky buttons and knobs annoyed me. I've been looking for a similar style unit but big enough for adult hands. Maybe the 404 is it.
A groove box is a single Instrument, which is capable of running multiple melodic tracks and drums, so you could perform a whole track on it. So polyphonic samplers are grooveboxes, monophonic samplers arent.
Hence the thumbnail “fair to compare” Absolutely different machines, I mean Roland has a decade plus in the sp series and the mkii seems to be rolands opus considering all of its new capabilities.
Really meant to help people decide given how close they are really in price… I’ve had a few friends ask “which one would you recommend” and I always say “it depends” so…. this video… :)
It's a totally fair comparison in the sense that almost every beginner looking for a sampler/groove box is looking at both of these as tentative choices.
I have both, but a bit more time on the SP-404mk2. So far the big difference maker for me is the amount of sample editing you want to do on the device. The SP-404mk2 is a better user experience with the OLED screen and a better workflow for lazy chopping.
@@damelos4039 sometimes I like to pretend it’s a calculator and punch in the numbers I’m working on as if it were a calculator. Good way to goof off and get some random inspiration lol
I should clarify that I work from home, so nobody sees/hears what I do when I play around with it. But yes, I would totally try sneaking this into the office. I guarantee nobody would know what it was 😂
Wow! It's like being in class and you're the professor. I don't have to take notes because I can rewind and download but what a GREAT video! Thanks. Going to check out the others you mentioned too.
True! And quirky-innovative way that tracks are handled… I’m not a fan of the button layout with the same design between the step pads and the sample pads on the right side - but just something to get used to
I regret I ever purchased the EP 133. It's more like a novelty item now...a cute little studio decoration. The SP-404 crushes in all areas: FX, portability, sequencing, memory expansion, various recording modes, etc. I'd been looking for a powerful looper and discovered that this feature was implemented into the 404 in the last firmware update. The SP is miles ahead - even with the quirky workflow.
KO2 also cannot sample when the ko2 is playing, so trying to play a guitar riff in time or sing along to the backing is impossible.. you have to do it with nothing playing..in stop mode.
@@rochefsky i've been waiting for that FIRMWARE update that TE talk about coming and turning the second CPU on...once i see what new features they add i'll either jump aboard or not.
What about SP-404 update 4.04? Didn't that recent update add scenes to the SP-404MK2? Also, what about a comparison of the Circuit Rhythm sampler to the EP-133?
Not that I’ve Scene ;) - but I’ll look closer - the place where scenes DO make sense on SP-404 is with effects settings on patterns… hmmm … looking now!
Here’s the official list of SP-404 v4.04 updates from Roland. I don’t see Scenes, but perhaps we can think of pattern Chain resampling as a sort of scene capture… www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/sp-404mk2/updates_drivers/bead022d-5349-4aab-9608-90ec718d47b0/
@@rochefsky Id be be less interested if they added resampling and some form of song mode to the ep133 but the new update for the 404 looks incredible, I think I will keep my eye on the used market...
If you wanna compare Apples with Oranges, it is. For me, no trendy TE stuff. This 133 is way underpriced for TE standards. They should up the price to at least 750 euro. I mean 64 Mb against 16 Gb, that must 4 times as much, doesn't it 😂.
I’m with you on price (since I already have mine 😝) and I still have an appreciation for the EP-133 as somehow it pushes my creativity with the constraints - but that 64Mb limit does get in the way more than I hoped
Well, the SP404 mk2 now crashes and reboots when you load a sample from SD card. How's that for a cool limitation. I mean, resampling is the bread and butter since the 202 came out in the 90th. With the 4.04 update, they managed to destroy it. That alone should be enough to up the price of the 133 to at least 750 dollars IMHO 😂.
