This is truly based on scriptures not speculation because the Holy Bible scriptures interpret itself if you are a diligent researcher. Thank you Dr. Kenneth Gentry for allowing the Lord Jesus Christ to use you as a golden vessel of honor worthy for the Master’s use. We’re grateful!
Their is no such scripture for rebuilding of a 3rd temple. Jesus was the temple Jn2:19,21. Please go and read the book of Hebrews then come back and say what you may. Christ is our High Priest. His Kingdom is not of this world... Jn18:36 Also we see the Jews did try and make Jesus a earthly King but he didnt want that.Jn6:15 Lets look to heaven not this earthly realm and disobedient people who do not follow Christ. I'm sorry if you thought I was being anything other than sincere. In Christ Jason
It seems that in our dialogue, one of us wishes to have a substantive correspondence with regard to these issues, while the other simply wants to make bare assertions, and even accusations. Thank you for the conversation; it's been edifying.
All of Israel IS saved, the real Israel has always been Spiritual! Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
DAY=YEAR? So when God says in the ten commandments "work for six days but rest on the seventh" what He actually is saying is "work for six years and then rest for a year"? When Jesus said "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" speaking of His body what He actually meant was "It will take me three years to resurrect"?
Is the rain literal in this passage, or, symbolic? Are the "two witnesses" two literal human beings; or, are the two witnesses symbolic of something other than human beings? These are excellent questions to investigate further.
No, what I'm denying is that you can use that to say that day = year in all prophecy (when it suits you). If it goes for ALL prophecy then it must go for Christ's prophecy of his own resurrection, and we know that is not the case. Do you deny that the first two examples you gave are taken out of context and that they indeed have nothing to do with prophesying? More importantly, do you deny that Daniel was told to seal the vision because it's too far off, and John was told the opposite?
"...forty two months, reckoning a day for a year, after the prophetic style, make 1260 years; which is the exact time of the witnesses prophesying in sackcloth (Rev.11), of the church's being hid and nourished in the wilderness (Rev.12), and of the beast's reign (Rev.13; Dan.7), and so of the holy city being trodden under foot..." [John Gill; Exposition on the Whole Bible; Rev.11:2]. Again, the day=year principle was widely recognized by historic Protestantism.
Someone please help me with rev 1:9 and Patmos. Literally, everything points to rev being written before 70ad. But History doesn't put john on Patmos until 94ad.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy. Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Eh, in a vision?, where he is at Patmos and actually that temple lays in ruines? John was not so much dreaming and a good scolar; he simply quotes Ezekiel.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy. Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
..therefore clear from Lk.21:20-24, that a destruction of the Temple, and the "desolation of Jerusalem was predicted together with a 'second captivity' to all nations, and Jerusalem to remain "trodden down" by the gentiles, as it is today.(with the Mosque on the Temple mount) It is Not possible to view Rev.11:1-2, "outside of" or separate, from the other prophecies concerning the Temple , Jerusalem, and the Jewish people. Since the book of Revelation, is Christ's revelation to John, it must ..
Where do you get the authority to build a third temple? Have you ever read the book of Hebrews? Don't be a back slider. We are not under a tutor but under Christ.
"According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, a year for each day..." (Num.14:34). "Forty days I assign you, a day for each year." (Eze.4:6). Both of these texts have been utilized to support the idea of the day=year principle in Bible prophecy. As well as Dan.9:24-27 (the "70 weeks" prophecy) which has generally been understood as applying the day=year principle.
And in both cases, it is explicitly converted. C’mon Patrick, enough with your eisegesis. Before you go to Peter too, know that it is expressive of YHWH’s transcendence of time, not His calculation of it. Daniel’s 7 weeks land squarely in the 1st century as they should within the context described of the whole chapter, wherein no bending of ‘gap-years-of-weeks’ are necessary.
...Temple would be destroyed. This then proves that the Temple to be Measures in Rev.11;1-2 must refer to another Temple yet to be constructed, on the Temple mount. Next, Gentry quotes Rev.11:8, to prove Jerusalem as the city in which the Temple will reside. That's a "no brainer", but then He concludes that "it must be Herod's Temple", and therefore proves an A.D. 68 writing of the Revelation. This kind of "simplistic deduction", is far from "scholarly", As it is clear that Rev.11:3-13, ...
a) That's good. b) Just using historical, confessional language, which has always been intended to defend against error. c) I thought you might have been familiar with Eastern Orthodoxy. d) What questions do you wish me to answer?
@@ophiuchus9071 The inner court was measured off and the outer court was given to be trampled by the gentiles. Titus did not just destroy the outer court. He destroyed the whole thing. This is much more in line with the life of a perscuted Christian. Our outer bodies can be killed but our souls are safe in Christ.
@@ophiuchus9071 MMM. I don't know where to start. First you did not answer my rebutal on the fact that Titus destroyed the whole temple. Only the outer court was given to the gentiles. Titus destroyed the whole temple. 2. The idea that symbols only emerge once is an unproven presupposition. Satan is referred to as both a dragon and a serpent. Jesus is pictured as both a lion and a lamb. So I simply disagree with you about that presup. And, according to your view, Nero is pictured to as the fifth head of the dragon and the beast. I would say that the 144K is the Church, the Temple is the Church, 7 lamp stands. And the 2 lamp stands is the Church. The bride that comes out of heaven is the Church. So don't tell me that symbols are fixed, at least the way you presented it. It's just not true. Why 2 lamp stands. Because in the role the Church is playing in that vision. You need 2 witnesses to establish a charge. So in the Churches role as it testifies against the world it is depicted in 3 sets of 2. Two olive trees, 2 lamp stands and 2 witnesses. 3. Given your 3 point, it sounds like you are full-preterist. If so, the souls under the alter are told to wait until their number is full. Christians did not stop dying for their faith in AD 70.
"...and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming..." What does this mean? Does it not mean that the "man of sin, son of perdition" (2Thes.2:3-4) had not arrived in the first century? This "man of sin, son of perdition" is what the Westminster, and 1689 London Baptist Confessions identify as the rule of the Papacy. I gave a biblical precedent for understanding the day=year prophecy. You choose not to believe it. Thus, you cannot understand the apocalyptic literature.
In Matt 24, Jesus described what the great tribulation would be like, then it says so understand and flee Judea when the abomination from Daniel (9) stands in the temple. Revelation 13 confirms and describes these events in more detail, including how Satan’s agents will dominate everyone and slaughter those who refuse the mark and worshipping the beast. This is the pressure that Jesus said will cause many to fall away and betray one another to save their own lives (until Revelation shows them being cast into the lake of fire). If the temple were metaphorical, as you claim, then Jesus warned everyone to flee from a metaphor. And if the miracle-working false messiah and false prophet are metaphors, how do you interpret the mark of the beast? You said “John is on Patmos, how is he supposed to go measure the temple on Jerusalem?” “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.” Rev 4:1-2
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Firstly, thanks for reply. Do you really think God meant literally for John to measure the temple? Do you think God didn't already know the physical dimensions of the temple? Or, in this descriptive language, as is the prophetic of the Old testament, is God giving a picture of something greater than the simple physical measurements of the temple? I believe God is telling a story of what was about to take place. Btw I'm not a futuristic or preterist. Chapter 12, I believe, is describing what took place at Calvary. Chapter 13, however, is shown to be a later date - the last days, shown by the fact that the ten horns, the ten kings of the last days who will rule with the beast for one hour (a short time in history) has now been given power being denoted as at this point in time having ten crowns. We know that crowns represent power to rule and these kings are to revive power to rule in the last days. As for the mark of the beast ; Exodus 13:9. For it is also metaphorical of what the world believes and gives their allegiance. Whereas believers are marked by God through their faith.
@@robertcain3426, I believe that John was having visions, so the temple was a part of that, and every detail of that scene is connected with various prophesies to describe certain end time events, which may be connected with the tribulation temple. Israel must build an actual tribulation temple for the various connected prophesies to be fulfilled. I believe the great sign in Rev 12 describes Jesus’ Advent and Ascension, but the woman in verse 14 who flies to her place represents the Rapture, then the remnant of her seed that get attacked by the dragon represents Israel, the core of tribulation saints who get saved or repent after missing the Rapture. And yes the beast with ten horns is still in the future. Regarding all the detailed warnings in Daniel, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians and Revelation about what the great tribulation will be like, and Jesus’ warning to flee for your lives if you should see the sign, and warnings to resist even to the death against taking the mark and worshiping the beast because the eternal lake of fire is punishment for that, there is no way that all of these witnesses fit together to show such a detailed scenario with specific instructions to just turn out to be metaphorical.
...As well as other "internal and external evidence", such as I have mentioned on the other video, clearly refutes Gentry's 68-70 A.D. presentation of the writing of the book of Revelation, as an impossibility. Gentry's book,"Before Jerusalem Fell", must therefore be relagated to the "sidelines" of irrellevancy, and nothing more than "speculative scholarly nonsense"
...empire "time-line", as is clear from the book of Daniel. Victorinus, in his commentary of the Apocalypse, (Rev.17:10) refers to teh "five that are fallen" as; Vitelius, Galba, Otho, Vespasian, and Titus. He calls Dometian, the "one that is". This "External" evidence, (in writ) as well as Jerome's two accounts which declare John at Patmos under Dometian, and particularly mentioning that he was sent to Patmos in the 14 year of Dometian
What a BEAUTIFUL scriptural combination is pointed out: Rev 11:2 cf Luke 21:24 How can they get around that? Interestingly, the the Spanish Bibles the immediate note (not the foot note) in Rev 11:2 refers you to the passage in Luke 21:24 I checked the King James and NKJV and they did not. We have a very strong Schofieldian bias that is very evident in the US. Thanks for sharing Jeff. I am really enjoying this excellent series by Gentry. Keep 'em coming! God bless!
The post-70 A.D. dating of the book of Revelation renders all preterist thought null and void. The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd. The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the Neronic date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot. In addition to Hegessippus (who, notably, wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters). There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. Also, what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels. The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to switch this around by 3 decades compared to the overwhelming consensus of the past 2000 years? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 63 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all in light of the historicity of the late date.
Did you even watch the video? How can you say that the dating is the pillar? The dating is crucial but not the foundation. That is like saying that because you need money for building a house, that money is the foundation. But I hope we both understand that is not true. Also the rest of your argumentation is mostly without logic but I don't think you are able to see that.
@@shadowandreality Nothing in this video disproves what I've said. Can you provide anything of substance in your reply? You did not address any of my points. All you said is it's without logic, yet you fail to provide anything in attempted refutation. I'm not convinced that you're able to rewrite history, because everything I've stated is factual.
Johnny Doe what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse and what John wrote in Revelation disproves everything you said. Either you take a pre 70ad date or Jesus and John both lied. There is no alternative.
@@Nobo35 why even bother replying to my comments? As on the other thread, you ignore every single point that I made. If you want to have a genuine discussion, the format is: "Point, and then counterpoints. Point, counterpoints, etc". If you reply to a comment, you can't just gloss over what was said and expect to be taken seriously.
@@ophiuchus9071 "How could Peter write to the churches in Asia, who John wrote to, and remind them of what John saw in the revelation if Peter was killed before Revelation was written" There's absolutely nothing in any of 1 or 2 Peter that says it was a reminder of what John saw on Patmos. You're reading it into the text. Judgment on the house of God and fiery trials have been the case since the early days of the church up through today in certain parts of the world, and cannot possibly be limited to the persecution of any specific time period. It's also worth noting that you didn't address a single point that I made.
If you read everything above , that I commented on, you will discover the scriptural authority, you might however have to "check your attitude at the door" before you begin.
...words,"This generation shall not pass", (Lk.21:32) is that correct ? If so, you need to understand, that the prophetic words in the preceding verses, 29-31 about the "fig tree and all the trees", speaks of the coming "second Advent" (which has Not yet taken place) and therefore it is THAT Generation, that "sees" the formation of national Israel, (in 1948) that shall not pass away. (man is appointed "threescore and ten years", "fourscore if much strengt") You have a lot to learn.
Wrong Hal Lindsey. The fig tree was an analogy that was not part of the prophecy! We know from Luke 11:50 that the Jewish lawyers who heard Jesus say this wicked generation understood He was speaking about them! Smarten up.
..."Middle of the week",(3-1/2 years) "He will make the sacrifice to cease", and set up the "abomnation that maketh desolate", for almost another 3-1/2 years ! (Titus Never did that either) Then we are told that the "desolator" will be destroyed ! ( in this case Titus, according to Gentry) In Acts 15:13-18, james the half brother of Jesus , and Head pastor of Jerusalem refers to the prophets, which predicted that the Messiah would return and "rebuild the Temple",which indicates that Herod's..
Here are questions for preterists: 1. What day did Jesus say the disciples would not see in Luke 17 that would come with observation? Luke 17 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 2. Is Luke 21 12 and Matthew 24 9 allegory? Was Luke 21 given at the same time as Matthew 24? 3. Is Rev 11 2 in the past when the 5th and 6th and 7th trumpet judgment occurred. If so, what happened at the 5th and 6th and 7th trumpet? 4. Did Jesus come in the clouds or is Matthew 24 allegory as well? 5. Did the angels proclaim the gospels to all the nations and all the tribes and all tongues before the 7th trumpet and then the end came? 6. Was the beast and the false prophet cast alive in the lake of fire in the past? Who were they? Who saw this? 7. What happened when the 6th trumpet sounded? Was 1/3 of mankind killed or is that allegory? 8. Is 70 AD the worst tribulation the world will ever see? Matthew 24 21 and Mark 13 19? 9. What is the abomination of desolation that triggered the greatest tribulation the world will ever see in Matthew 24/Mark 13? The phrase is where the Jews get the feast of dedication in the gospel of John. It was a blasphemy in the temple and a man proclaiming he is God? 10. What generation saw the Fig Tree bud in Luke 21 29-36? What Fig Tree bud when the times of the gentiles ended and 2 witnesses appeared and the 6th and 7th trumpet sounded? 11. After the crucifixion in Acts 1 6-7, Jesus was asked if the kingdom was going to be restored to Israel at that time? Why did Jesus say that event was in the Father's authority and they were not to know when that would happen? Why didn't He say it never would be restored to Israel after the city and temple were going to be destroyed like what He had told them when asked in public at the temple?
Neil Wani I suggest u listen to Dr Jonathon Welton or Gary Demar as they explain ur questions WELL...I had way too many questions regarding the contradictions with Dispensation doctrine & saw scriptures that did NOT point to a ‘futurist’ view. This lead me to investigate what happened in those years following the crucifixion via Josephus, Eusebius, Tacitus. What I found totally brought together ALL the pieces of the puzzle. I have a book from George Peter Holford (The Destruction of Jerusalem) written 1805 that gives irrefutable evidence for the divine origin of Christianity based on the facts that many historians wrote on the accuracy of Jesus’ prophetic declarations & how they came to pass (citing actual incidents that happened). Yes, much figurative language was used at that time when Christ spoke but it was language HIS (then) audiences were very familiar with & language that had been used in the Old Testament as well. Much misunderstanding come from terms like ‘coming on the clouds’ when that was a common verse used in OT like Isaiah 19:1 to depict judgement on a specific territory. The word ‘earth’ in Micah 1:2 refers to a ‘LOCAL’ judgement not judgement on all the earth. So the word earth has to be understood in its contextual application.This is the case for many words in scriptures. So ALWAYS consider the 1)audience being spoken to 2) what was happening before the words were spoken 3) pay close attention to “time” indicators or time texts (like soon, quickly or near) Why would a speaker say ‘I am coming soon’ only to mean they were not coming soon? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4T1dawjOsKg.html Also Dr Welton has an excellent book called The Art of Revelation explaining the language used & how it applies.
Neil Wani I also recommend looking up RU-vid videos on the end times by Dr. Lynn Hiles, especially the ones where he interviews Dr. John Noe. Both men have studied eschatology extensively and Dr. Noe has written books and thesis’s on the issues.
Also saying that the generation that saw the ‘fig tree blossom’ is an imposed proposition as Jesus used this analogy as a TIME indicator for if the fig tree represents modern day Israel then does the cursing of the fig tree by Jesus ALSO represent modern day Israel?
..."dispersion" of the Jewish people "into all Nations", and that from that time on , Jerusalem would be "trodden down by the gentiles, until the time of the gentiles be fulfilled". Verses 25 -28, continue to discuss many other signs an calamities that will take place "after" the "desolation of Jeruasalem", (and the destruction of the Temple) before Christ was to return. Jesus said to the Pharisees, in Mt.23:38; "behold your 'house' (the Temple,2.Sam.7:5) is left unto you Desolate". It is ...
Luke 21 is not a parallel passage with Matthew 24/Mark 13. This means Luke 21 was given first at day time in public when Jesus was leaving the temple (Luke 21 37). And at night time in private on the Mount of Olives, the disciples asked new questions about the ending of Luke 21 (Luke 21 37). Pay attention to the bold font. Look at Luke 21 - it starts out with the beginning of sorrows in the end times: Luke 21 8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, *but the end will not come immediately.”* 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. BUT LOOK AT LUKE 21 12. IT SAYS "BEFORE THESE THINGS" AND IT FLOWS TILL THE ARMIES SURROUND JERUSALEM. Luke 21 12 *But before all these things,* they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls. 18 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. NOW LOOK AT MATTHEW 24 IN THE END TIMES Matthew 24 4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, *but the end is not yet.* 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. AFTER THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS, THE WORD "THEN" IS USED TO CONNECT THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS ALL THE WAY TO THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION. Matthew 24 9 *“Then* they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, *and then the end will come.* 15 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), THIS PROVES THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS AND THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IS AFTER 70 AD AND IN THE END TIMES. ALL PRETERISTS WILL BE PROVEN WRONG. FOR THEM, IT IS A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THE WORDS IN GREEK TRANSLATED BEFORE THESE THINGS AND THE WORD THEN. EVEN MARK 13 9 DOES NOT HAVE BEFORE THESE THINGS AND MARK 13 10 IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS MATTHEW 24 14 WITHOUT THE LAST PART THAT SAYS AND THEN THE END WILL COME.
Luke 21 8-11 is the beginning of sorrows in the end times Luke 21 12 to Luke 21 23 is about the early church and 70 AD in the past Luke 21 24 is future and ends on the last day of Daniels 70th week as given in Rev 11 2 (2nd half of Daniel's 70th week). Luke 21 25-28 is the 2nd coming on the very last day of Daniels 70th week Luke 21 29-36 is the generation watching all these things come together and watching for 1 day Matthew 24 4-8 is the beginning of sorrows in the end times (the first 4 seals some time in the 1st half) Matt 24 9-27 is the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week (5th seal till day of the 7th trumpet) Matthew 24 28-31 is the 2nd coming on the very last day of Daniels 70th week Matthew 24 32-51 gives more details about the end of the church age Mark 13 5-8 is the beginning of sorrows in the end times (the first 4 seals some time in the 1st half) Mark 13 9-23 is the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week (5th seal till day of the 7th trumpet) Mark 13 24-27 is the 2nd coming on the very last day of Daniels 70th week Mark 13 28-36 gives more details about the end of the church age
What Gentry presents here, is historically and scripturally in-accurate, and downright deception ! The first "internal evidence" He discusses is the Herodian Temple, and concludes that Rev.11:1-2 "must refer to it", hence proof that the book of Revelation was written before 70 A.D. The truth is, that when we examine Lk.21:20, it discusses the "soon desolation" of Jerusalem, (70.A.D.) yet in verse 24, we discover that "this "desolation" of Jerusalem is predicted to result in a second ....
Greetings ... Did anyone-else note that he did not touch Rev 17:11? What about the Eight king i.e The Eight Beast? This question destroys the Preterist view......Who was the EIGHT KING that was of the Seven? They are yet to show that he who became the EIGHT king of Rome was (once) of the Seven in their explanation s . "And the beast that was, and is not, EVEN HE IS THE EIGHT , and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition". The "eight king / eight beast " was of the Seven as stated in the text, therefore it cannot be none of the kings that ruled after Nero whom they cited as The Sixth king. None of the kings that followed Nero were ever a king before Nero . Titus does not qualify. He began his ruler-ship at 79AD...nine years after all was FULFILLED....according to the Preterists view. The narrative in Rev 17:10-11 is not about the kings that ruled Rome but it is about all of the kingdoms that ruled from Egypt to Rome itself. Rome was #6 and was the ruling kingdom at the time that John received the Revelation . Rome was the SIXTH and she is NOW the Eight .The British Empire should be counted as the seventh which did last a short space compared to the other Empires before it. Nevertheless Rome is back.
FIRST was Caligula ,Nero was SECOND, then Galba, Otho and Vitellius. These are the FIVE fallen kings,(bad, murdered or suicided Emperors) then comes Vespasian SIXTH, then titus SEVENTH. then EIGHT the beast himself: Dometianus. Note that Claudius was murdered but never the less considered a good emperor amidst the bad ones. There is a list of roman emperors on wikipedia, convince yourself.
Willem Pasterkamp Come again you missed it . Note scholar the eight beast was of the Seven. What you have to prove is that Dometianus was once a ruler . You have to show that ...and you cannot prove that . Here is the quote from the text..." And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, AND IS OF THE SEVEN , and goeth into perdition." Again , was Dometianus ever of the seven ?
OF the same evil nature, Together one beast with the other seven. Like Dan Brown, John stays a little mysterious and makes it not to easy. Not only seven heads but also 10 horns. Domitian is eight of the evil kings and eleventh of the overall list. Augustus, Tiberius, Claudius are not considered FAILED kings. Give ceasar what is ceasars! Every head , horn and the beast itself makes a total of 20 kings! You have to double count some. Vespasian and Titus the 2 horned beast. Triple-counting! The false prophet; maybe Flavius Josephus? Vespasian and Titus, Father and Son ruled longtime together and came from overseas to Judea. How do you count to 20 if you have only 6?
There WAS a "Tribulation Temple" standing in Jerusalem during the great tribulation in AD70! No need to build a new one when Scripture is properly understood!
@Jeff Swayzee I think the Dome of the Rock is testimony of that. If anyone even touches the DOTR to rebuild the Jewish Temple, nuclear annihilation will be the result. Fortunately nobody will even try, and they know that. God is done (Deuteronomy 28:15-68; Matthew 21:33-44).
@sorens70601 How can you possibly know what I have read and have not read? You do not know me! Taking a leap from AD31 to AD70 still fits the time frame of "this generation" "soon" "quickly" and "shortly" your leap does NOT!
@sorens70601 And how do you take a leap in Luke 21:24 to be AD70 then 25 in the distant future? The same with Dan. 9:26-27? Am I just to take your word on this b/c you say so? When we talk to a person that during a discussion will take a leap from that subject to a far distant subject without warning and just continue as if we should just know, while we are scratching our heads saying "huh?" we think that person may have mental problems. You are making God look the same way!
I don't subscribe to any specific one, all I care about is to understand the truth. In other words - I believe in Christ and I don't believe in people's traditions; they've been wrong enough times.
I like that a lot. I've looked at it like this... Treat the Bible like a mystery novel. If you skip right to the end to find out who the murderer is and how the case was solved and THEN start at Chapter One, you know how it winds up and see easily all the clues as you read toward the end.
@@ophiuchus9071 I am curious as to your assertion that Peter read John's letter to the the 7 churches. I've seen nothing in Peter's writing to indicate that with any certainty. What is your scriptural proof of that?
@@ophiuchus9071 So what you're saying is two of the 3 favored apostles didn't get "schooled" by the Lord Jesus Christ in their several years traveling Him to have similarities in doctrine? So you don't have a verse anywhere in the Peters that say, "Remember what John wrote to the 7 Churches in Asia about his Revelation from Christ and how He had the same message for each one to overcome?" Nope.
@@ophiuchus9071 Check the history of Babylon and Babylonia and you'll find that it was inhabited for quite a bit later than you realize. John never called Jerusalem 'Babylon', even spiritually. The reference you cite (Rev 16:19) are two different cities as is evident by the modes of destruction. Unless you understand the basics of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the rest of the Prophets you'll be lost in Revelation (Rev 10:7).The destruction in 67-70 AD was the judgement upon Jerusalem and the scattering of its people. And neither John, Peter or Paul lied in their writings. In the coming end, the Lord Jesus Christ chooses Jerusalem, His Holy Mountain and His chosen people. The Prophets are clear.
I read where someone suggested that John described what Jesus said in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 in Revelation, which suggests that Revelation was written before the Gospel of John.
@WCOFTheology...You have made some stupid comments in the past few days, but this one tops them all !!! What I presented on Lk.21:20, as well as verse 24, is biblical fact !! Also what Dan.9:24-27, discusses is fact !! You cannot refute the fact that Gods' word foretells the destruction of the Temple,( 70 A.D.) in Lk.21:20-24 , and continues with describing the following captivity "to all Nations". Also you cannot deny the facts presented in Dan.9:26 that the people of the PRINCE THAT SHALL...
And Demar is a preterist (like Dr. Gentry). Preterism was the school of thought founded by the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar. Futurism was the school of thought founded by the Jesuit Francisco Ribera. Both systems were enacted in order to counter the Reformation teaching of the Papacy as antichrist. Included in these systems was the teaching that the 1,260 days (found in Dan.7,12; Rev.11,12,13) were to be understood as a literal 3.5 years. Both systems, I repeat, are Jesuit inventions.
And the Chiliasm in the early church were of those early Christians who continued to incorporate Jewish eschatology, even though Jesus had repudiated Jewish eschatology in such passages as Luke 17:20-21; John 18:36; John 6:15; Mark 10:35-45
If all these things must soon take place(which I agree with) then would not the Great White Throne judgment have also taken place soon? I’m a partial preterist, so what part of Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70 and what part is to be fulfilled in the future?
When was the Gospel of John written? Rev 1:19 instructs John to write the Gospel as well as Revelation. "what was" ... Gospel "what is and will be"... Revelation. Shortly in Rev 1:1 translates as "with speed" so not a measure of when but rather how the events will happen.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy. Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
In other words the words of the Bible mean ANYTHING except what they mean? Days are years but only when it's prophetic (except when Jesus is prophesying that He'd resurrect in 3 days in which case it's not 3 years even if it is prophetic), the two witnesses are wearing sackcloth and their bodies lye dead for 3 days (or, I'm guessing that would have to be 3 years) but maybe they are not humans and those are not bodies and the rain is not rain. Your reading is very convenient, I'll give you that.
Julius is not the first king of the count. If you start with him the count makes absolutely no sense. 3 emperors all reigned for a short time, so why tell me that only one would? That is stupid and pointless. The count skips Julius and it ALSO skips Galba, Otho and Vitellius. Making the count like this - which is the only count that makes any sense at all. 1 Augustus , 2 Tiberius , 3 Caligula , 4 Claudius , 5 Nero
Saying Revelation is not for now is basically saying that the book of Daniel is not for now, as well. Probably these teachings will point out that most of the Bible is not for now, such as the epistles written by Paul. He was not writing to the saints in Canada or Mexico at that time. So obviously, John wrote to the seven churches and all of that writing is worthless to the saints of today because Revelation is all vanished away. To me, this is total nonsense and only the carnal mind could come up with this. Maybe with all the philosophical and historical (maybe so) stuff, this teaching could convince some of the book of Revelation as being void of importance to us now. But, in reality, Revelation is now. The mark of the beast is imminent. The 2 prophets, as well. The teaching of Revelation not being for now is a deterrent at best.
@@WCOFTheology About the book of Revelation, could you answer the question of how the false prophet and the antichrist were thrown alive into the lake of fire? Please explain in detail, for this would have certainly been recorded by many many people Take your time.
I know what Acts 3:21 says and I'm telling you that you don't understand it b/c you are looking at it through a modern western thinking! He is NOT literally going to come back, I don't care how literal His ascension was!
@WCOFTheology ...You are very "narrow minded". My comment as a "seasoned missionary", was intended to show that I as almost 50 years in ministry as a Bible prophecy teacher, obviously must have much more information on this issue than what you possess. Nothing more was intended. I have seen your face on some of your other video's, and you are quite young, therefore my comment. As for your comment on taking a leap, I now see where you are coming from. You rest your understanding upon the ...
@WCOFTheology ...The same way the preterists "take a leap" from A.D.31 ( the end of the 69th week ) to A.D.64, where the "seventieth week" needed to commence, in order to end at 70 A.D. Your problem is, that you do Not understand prophecy, simply because you are not well read. For example, there are over 1800 referrences to Christ's second coming,(that's 8 times more, than about His first coming) I doubt that you have read two percent of those passages,(38) so how can you expect to ...
The more one reads what Paul says regarding the Jews, especially in Romans and Galatians, the less one can accept the notion that the ethnic Jews get some kind of special place in the world, John's gospel 8:39-59 clearly shows Jesus declaring ethnicity to be worthless, and the book of Hebrews makes clear that the Mosaic covenant is irrelevant ever since the New Covenant established by Christ came into being. The body of believers is made up of both Jews and Gentiles, Pauline teaching is all about this, the "mystery of God hidden until the present time, now revealed to us."
...Which is available at my website morgansorensen with a "dot org" behind it. You can read the first four "early chapters on the website as well. It is also available at Amazon as a "Kindle E-book".
Isn't "straw man argument" what you did right there, actually? I never said that the Westminster EXPLAINS day = year. And neither do these verses that you are now quoting, in any way, which you'd see if you weren't so blinded by your commitment to use day = year in order to make papacy into the antichrist, even though the Bible says this about that: 1 John 2:18 "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come."
Not only this, but Dr. Gentry even admits to abandoning his own Confession of Faith (the Westminster Confession), when the Confession states: "There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God" [WCF, Ch. XXV, sec. vi].
What you gave is not a precedent for year = day. You just disembodied some verses from their context and gave them an unrelated meaning (you sound like Seventh Day Adventist, they do that same thing). The first two verses you quoted have nothing to do with prophecy whatsoever, and in the third one you are not mentioning that the angel told Daniel to "seal the prophecy" because it's far in the future (from when it is given) while John was told to not seal his because it was to happen soon.
It's obvious that you are not even reading my [substantive] responses. The Westminster Confession does NOT explain the day=year principle. Neither did I EVER claim it did. Usually when someone has to sink to the level of a straw man argument (arguing against a misrepresentation of their opponent), it means that they are loosing an argument. Again, edifying.
In Revelation 11:1 the temple is in the "holy city, the great city, where the Lord was crucified" (11:2; 11:8). By Revelation 11:19, the temple is now removed into heaven, and God's Arc of the Covenant has reappeared, the first time in history since the Babylonian siege in 586 BC. In Revelation 11:13, there is the destruction of Jerusalem, completed in it's entirety by Revelation 17:15-18; 18:21; 19:1-3).
a) yes b) you'd have to define that in more detail, you're using churchy language there. c) No, I already said what I believe in. Culturally I come from an Easter Orthodox part of the world, which is what you're getting at, but that's not what I believe in (if I did I'd agree with your view of papacy). d) you didn't answer my questions.
Or perhaps you've read too many bad ones and they've conditioned you to see things that aren't there. The antidote for that I'd recommend is "Last Days Madness" by Gary DeMar.
@WCOFTheology ...Just thought of another scripture I forgot to include, about the "postponed time-line of "the 70th week" of Daniel. That is Acts 15:13-18, in which it becomae clear that only AFTER the gospel has gone out to the gentles, (and past the 70 A.D. destruction of Jeruasalem) is Christ said to "return" and; "to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this will I return and will build Again the tabernacle of David, WHICH IS FALLEN DOWN, and I will BUILD AGAIN...
He’s talking about the temple in Revelation as being the people of God, the church. If this temple as Gentry says is the physical one still standing, then this would be a unique reading of the text found nowhere else in the NT. The 42 months spans the entire eschatological inter advental age between the two comings of Christ.
Not only this, but both preterists and futurists must insist that the 1260 day time period (found 7 times in Scripture) is a literal 3.5 years. Historic Protestantism (which has mostly been comprised of historicists) has held that the 1260 days are symbolic of literal years! Notice John Gill's discussion of Rev.11:2-3: "which account Daniel used, and John after him, forty two months, reckoning a day for a year, after the prophetic style, make 1260 years..." DAY=YEAR.
This interpretation is nowhere found in Scripture. "A day is like a thousand years," means that God does not exist in time nor space, as Jesus said, "God is Spirit." John 4:24
So the two witnesses are witnessing for 1260 years? That's an awful long time without rain, don't you think? Revelation 11:6 : "They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying"....?
Yeah, sometimes a 'day' is just a 'day' too. Unfortunately, some of these folks don't actually read their Bibles. Revelation gives the time the 2 Witnesses testify as 1260 days (Rev 11:3) immediately after we see 42 months in verse 11:2. And then most of them cringe when confronted with Daniel's 2300 Days, 1290 Days and 1335 Days.
Are you a bible-believing Christian? Do you believe the Bible is the sole, infallible authority in matters of faith, and practice for the Church of Christ Jesus? Are you a part of Eastern Orthodoxy, or, Roman Catholicism?
Substantive would be if you had a Biblical warrant to claim that Day = Year (but only when you want it). When you start with "What the Bible says isn't what it says because Westminster Confession says otherwise" that's not substantive correspondence. I thought Protestants were supposed to be "Sola Scriptura", but apparently that isn't so. You are correct, it's been edifying.
Many Protestants still are, and having to learn our way out of dispensation all dogma, largely propagated by the SBC and affiliates. Generalizations make fools out of us all, brother :) reformation takes time and perpetual vigilance, otherwise we get back to paying the church for salvation…
To me the phrase "tread under foot" by Gentiles means Gentile armies would occupy the city, and they didn't happen until late 70 AD. So, the 3.5 years would start there and end with the fall of Masada in early 74 AD, which was 3.5 years later.
Actually from the time the Jewish revolt began until the Temple was destroyed on the 9th of Av (the same day the Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586/587 BC) was 1,260 days.
@@larrymcclain8874 , I understand that the First Jewish-Roman War lasted 7 years, and the Temple was destroyed in the middle. Anyway, I now think the Temple of God in Rev 11 is in Heaven.
I strongly disagree with Dr. Gentry's assertion that the internal evidence of the book of Revelation points to an early date. Notice what John Gill (not a preterist; but an historicist) says concerning the meaning of Rev.11:1, and the "temple of God": "by "the temple of God" is here meant the church, of which the temple was a type; and so particular congregated churches are called temples, 1Co 3:16...."
Unfortunately that's incorrect. It isn't "days = years," but rather 70 "sevens." This is interpreted as "70 times 7" (or 490 years). Jesus Himself used the same in Matthew 18:21-22.
...understand what I , (a seasoned missionary) am talking about ? The prophecies in Daniel alone,(such as Chapters 7,8 11,) declare so much information that it boggles the mind. In Capt.7 We are told that when this (future) destruction of the Temple takes place,(where the Antichrist sets up his image of abomination) that God will be vissibly "seen" sitting on a throne and "overseeing" the Battle of Meggiddo, (armageddon) That did Not happen in 70 A.D.(neither was Titus"desroyed",as per scripture
I'm sorry but you're wrong In Rom. 9-11 the REMNANT keeps coming up over and over, the Remnant have ALWAYS been the true Israel and they are the ones that were saved and grafted back in.
