CONSUMER UNIT IP RATINGS - Electricians Q&A - BS7671

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The UK wiring regulations have some very specific requirements for the IP rating of consumer units. Joe Robinson delves into BS7671 to explain more.
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Опубликовано:

24 окт 2021

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Комментарии : 55

@amritdaffu5839 2 года назад

Best Electrical channel on RU-vid

@spoon1272 2 года назад

Not quite what I has hoping from the vid. From the thumbnail I was expecting a chat about the IP rating of cables coming in from the back of the consumer unit. I have seen people cut out slots in the back and put the cables though. The IP rating is way more than IP2X. So, that are your thoughts on this scenario, where the consumer unit is fixed to a wall and the cables come in the back via a slot?

@rossfairweather8476 2 года назад

I was really hoping for some clarity about this also

@supersparks9466 2 года назад

Yes click bait

@scabthecat 2 года назад

@@rossfairweather8476 me too. It's what to do with regards to rear entry knock outs and the subsequent fire containing properties of a consumer unit that I wanted the video to be about.

@droneeyecreations3824 2 года назад

I've always thought, once all your cables are through the back, use pink expanding foam to fill the gaps and add fire protection ....just my thoughts.

@supersparks9466 2 года назад

No need to seal the rear persay but good practice I guess

@gbelectricks 2 года назад

Come on efixx, you need to talk about the hole around the back🤣🤣cheers Joe👍

@ColinRichardson 2 года назад

Do you often climb into your walls and poke your fingers through to get into the back of the consumer unit?

@SALMR79 2 года назад

But isn't the issue here whether the ipxxb rule applies to the back of the consumer unit if it's fixed to the wall with no way for a finger to access it. Isn't the more common question that arises is in relation to the 421.1.201 for non combustible enclosures. Once you create a significant hole for cable entry, is the enclosure deemed compromised?

@deang5622 Год назад

No. It can't be, think about it. The case of the CU does not provide an air tight seal. That is, the purpose of the metal enclosure is not to quell a fire by preventing oxygen from getting to the fire. The purpose of the CU being fabricated from metal is such that the material itself is not combustible. So with that in mind then, it doesn't matter about holes in the CU from a fire perspective. It does matter from an IPnX point of view. The rules around IP protection of a CU when indoors are about the prevention of an electrocution risk to the human occupants, notably little Jonny who likes to stick things where he shouldn't.

@peterjohnson9108 Год назад

I have noted that they are quite a few comments relating to the knockouts in the back of the consumer unit with relationship to the IP rating allowed I have also noticed that there is no reply from e f i x x . Could this be due to the case that they do not know the answer to this question??????.

@TeamSimpsonRacing 2 года назад

What is your opinion with regards to fire sealing rear entry points of a consumer unit, especially when meter tails coming through a cavity wall or if the consumer unit is mounted on a stud wall

@JB-gt9ux 2 года назад

Theres no need. Its just preference. It only needs to be made of non-combustible material and stick to IP ratings

@JB-gt9ux 2 года назад

I personally like to run trunking above and make it not- readily accessible. If it is i’ll use closed membrane grommets or enter round the back using a pattress etc

@efixx 2 года назад

It depends if the surface behind the board is part of a fire compartment and needs sealing. The external cavity wall isn't in most circumstances.

@TeamSimpsonRacing 2 года назад

@@efixx so fixing onto a timber stud wall with cables rear entry should be sealed. This has always been my thinking.

@efixx 2 года назад

Again it depends upon what the space is used for on the other side . Here's the guidance from the NHBC which is quite useful - www.nhbc.co.uk/binaries/content/assets/nhbc/tech-zone/nhbc-standards/tech-guidance/8.1/flush-mounted-electrical-accessories-in-partitions-final.pdf Note the back to back socket scenario.

@Dog-whisperer7494 2 года назад

Excellent video Joe . We should always do what ever to protect the consumer from all risks of electric shock , open grommets on a cu is a big Nono for me . Stuffing glands or a length of trunking. Always. Great video Joe As always 👍👍👍👍❤️

@jamesmoon5632 2 года назад

You said use a closed grommet or a stuffing gland. What about using trunking

@chrissharpe2106 2 года назад

My thoughts exactly. A header trunking with a 90 degree bend to the ceiling should surely be fine.

@waithereivegonetogethelp3240 Год назад

Concerning IP4X on the top of a DB, just out of interest, does anyone know why this is? I thought at first that fire propagation might be the reason, but then disregarded this as plastic glands and rubber grommets offer little fire protection... Then I thought maybe or was about insects or mice getting in, but then holes big enough to allow this (IP2X) are allowed elsewhere.... Are they expecting people to come along with 1mm wires desperate to stuff them into the top of consumer units and distribution boards, desperate to be electrocuted? Or.. hang on, I may have answered my own question. It's probably down to the dropping in and settling of fine particles which may then lead to fire risk... Seems most likely. Having said that, a small mouse (or big spider) that could squeeze through an IP2X would surely offer the same risk, or greater?

@tysondundas1947 2 года назад

Mounting orientation of a consumer unit. Many people seem to think mounting a standard 18th edition DB on it's side is acceptable. But as there is no normally no lock / latch gravity is used to hold the lid shut. Mounting a single phase DB on it's side would not be installing the unit it as designed. Any thoughts?

@deang5622 Год назад

Well it certainly doesn't make any difference to the electricity! It's just a question of whether the cover flips open. And from information I have seen: If the consumer unit is made of steel and it confirms to BS EN61439-3 then it doesn't matter if the lid flips open. So evidently, it is the fact that the CU is made of metal which reduces the fire risk posed by a CU, not that the lid closes. The lid doesn't make an airtight seal and prevent oxygen getting in.

@deang5622 Год назад

And as for "not installing the unit as designed". It is for the manufacturer of the unit to specify how it should be installed, not the electrician. The electrician didn't design the product. So with regards to installation, it is down to the electrician to follows the manufacturer's installation instructions. And if the manufacturers does not say not to install it in a portrait orientation, then you can install it in a portrait orientation or if it mandates a particular orientation then you need to follow that instruction. It's the same with maintenance free junction boxes. You have to follow the manufacturer's instructions. If you do that, then the liability if something disastrous happens, falls to the manufacturer and not you as the installer. And if you are not sure about the orientation question, then you get in contact with the manufacturer. And ideally get a variation to the installation instructions confirmed in writing. And retain that confirmation.

@peterjohnson9108 Год назад

Where does IP rating stand for a consumer unit which is hard knockouts removed to allow entry of cable through back of consumer unit

@deang5622 Год назад

You have lowered the IP rating of the CU. Normally the IP rating is for the entire enclosure. However, the IET regs apply the IP rating to individual surfaces of the CU. If I recall correctly, IP4X on horizontal surfaces and 2X on vertical surfaces. People make it more complicated than it needs to be. Don't over think it. It's mainly about stopping people from getting their fingers in and touching a live part. With this in mind then, why do you care about holes in the rear of the CU where people cannot access those holes to be able to insert anything into the CU? If those cable entry holes are on the underside of the CU such that little Johnny can come along and put his little fingers in, then yes the installation of that CU would *not* be compliant.

@aryehelectricalltd7247 11 месяцев назад

And the back entry ? It’s way more tan 12 mm

@alinili5569 2 года назад

How about from under. Where there is busbar cover and access to busbar. But from the top. Fair enough for water leaks but there is neutral and earth bar. Stopping you put your finger. Through and the MCB position it’s fairly low from the top. Again rule and regulations And health and safety with out that much the though

@deang5622 Год назад

IP4X or IPnX where you are interested in the number n, is not about water ingress. Water ingress is the second digit, in this case the X. So the rules around IP4X or IP2X are nothing to do with water. Protection of the insides of the CU from water ingress is *not* what these regulations are about. The CU is indoors. External CU's, that's a different set of regs.

@samstretton3890 2 года назад

Would you class the white fire rated grommets sufficient to achieve ip4x in each scenario below With 1 cable entering through a 32mm fire rated grommet With more than 3 2.5mm twin and earth cable entering through a 32mm fire rated grommet

@travoltasbiplane1551 2 года назад

Possibly... But the membrane is a bit flimsy isn't it. Wouldn't be my go-to...trunking over the top of the dB for the win. 👍

@johndjchemistwhite9377 2 года назад

got tip mate....... but after ive fitted a new consumer unit any IP rating or anywere if sum1 wants to try n put 1ml object into it so be it..... they deserve a little show just hope they film it fink sum regs are drempt up because they dont have enough to fill it!!! mite makes regs books bit cheaper ...... doubt it loool maybe im wrong

@travoltasbiplane1551 2 года назад

It's not just that. It's people putting shite on top of the enclosure that could drop in as well...

@ColinRichardson 2 года назад

Can you imagine going to open a door, you reach for the handle, and then suddently your fingers are cut off.. and some super door handle specialist who has had years of training says "well, this special little picture on the back of the handle means it's a left handed only door handle" You would be asking "I didn't know about that picture" "I didn't know to look there" "It looks like a door handle, how was I supposed to know its special" . Then someone looks in the cupboard in the new house and there is a box on the wall with a massive hole at the top that looks like a cardboard box handle to lift it.. "I didn't know it was a consumer unit" "I didn't know the hole wasn't meant to be there" "It looks like a box I can lift, how was I supposed to know"

@ColinRichardson 2 года назад

I always look at things and go "what is the worst thing a toddler could do to this" If there is a hole, a toddler will poke his finger in it, if there is a button, the button will be pressed, if there is a flap, the flap will be lifted.. If you don't have time to think of EVERY scenario, then you are living life correctly.. Thankfully, the regs have thought of it, and written it down.

@deang5622 Год назад

Yes you are wrong. You've got too much going on thinking down the lines of conspiracy theories. That is not the way to think about it. You need to get away from that way of thinking. The rules are about safety. Think of it that way. This is a problem I come across regularly with electricians, is they always think the IET is doing things to try to rip them off. Mostly they impose rules for the purpose of safety. So yes, as the other user has indicated, it's about little Johnny coming along and poking his little fingers in, or a knitting needle into a hole and contacting a live exposed metal part. And no, it is not acceptable for you to say "Little Johnny shouldn't be poking things into holes". Little Jonny is going to do what little Johnny is going to do and if little Johnny is electrocuted because you left a big enough hole in a face of the CU, little Johnny's mother is not going to be happy with you...and neither will the HSE be, neither will the police ..and it's you that is going to be fried (in addition to little Johnny) by the Courts.