You are correct but it's also important to note that a feder, like what they are using here, is specifically designed for training and sparring, and while it DOES way the same as the real thing, it focuses more of the weight in the users hands, so that the blade has less impact when it hits. This can also give the wielder a bit more tip control than they would have with most longswords, and make the sword SEEM lighter.
@@clearmelody6252 As a fellow hema'st I think we have to be careful saying things like the weight is correct, not to say it is wrong but context is very important, from what sources of historical longswords I've read, their weights range all over the place with just small variations in length, even if we say we are talking only about the longswords mentioned in the manuscripts which are arm pit length, 130-140cm which are larger than common longswords and we limit it to the 16th century, what small samples I've seen on the internet show longswords as heavy as 2.2kg and as light as 1.4kg. But most seem to be between 1.6kg to 1.9kg slightly heavier than the common feder which is 1.5kg. That said I've used a 1.9kg feder and its hardly slower than a 1.5kg it just requires better technique and fitness but I've also used a 1.75kg feder than felt easier to use than a 1.5 feder. Here is the largest sample size of longswords I've seen posted from the 13th/14th,15th and 16th centuries, it has only some 60 samples which is not enough to draw any conclusions other than it seems like you can have any kind of longsword you want: hroarr.com/article/longswords-and-their-data/
@@jessecollins3652 try fencing, it's actually tough. I wouldn't want HEMA in the Olympics. It'll be bogged down by too many rules to satisfy IOC standards. Then at that point, it'll become just like sport fencing or tae kwon do or judo. Limited by too many rules.
Austin B. I see your point as to not wanting HEMA in the Olympics. Being a very niche sport allows for HEMA to have its one rule set. As to actually trying fencing, I used to fence before I did HEMA (specifically foil). I remember it being easy after I got rid of the reflex to try and defend myself. Also everyone was either a sore looser, or didn’t know how to act when they won.
Jesse Collins Did you understand right of way? A huge part (half) of right of way is learning when to defend yourself. Of course, I’m assuming you even did fencing in the first place.
Matthew Pham Yes, I did. My whole point was (though I articulated this poorly) was that once I had right of way, I had no need to defend myself. All I had to do was make sure that they didn’t hit my sword.
Swords don't really need a lot of weight to do damage. The two main ways to fighting with a sword is by either cutting or thrusting. For thrusting, the lighter the better, as evidenced by rapiers and Olympic fencing swords. For cutting, it's more about how sharp your sword is over how much weight is behind it. That's why you can have a six foot greatsword that only weighs a few pounds.
rapiers aren't all that lighter than most arming swords. They feel lighter because of how most of the metal that's in the blade is around the hilt, aka where your hand is. Olympic swords aren't really meant to kill. They're for a sport. It's not trying to resemble actual historical swordfighting. I assume when you talk about cutting that you meant to say that it depends on the sharpness and the amount of *force behind the swing.
For cutting it also depends on the point of balance of the blade. If you feel it heavier towards the tip it will generally be better at cutting but it will be harder to handle.
It is that "easy" to swing a longsword with the right training and technique. It's a historical myth longsword are unwieldy beasts. Real longsword weigh between 1-1.5kg (that would be 2.2-3.3lb for the few not using metric) according to wikipedia, the Regenyei standard feder (the style of trainingsword used in these types of matches) weighs 1.46kg, so some of these are even kind of heavy longswords. Interesting to know your views on this art, keep making videos. :)
the weight is not the main problem, it's the point of balance, the closer the point is to the tip the harder it is to swing it, the Katana is lighter than longswords in general but are "heavier" due to the point of balance being closer to the tip than longswords, therefore having stronger cuts but making it more tiring to use
when talking about the weight you have to consider the length and further more the context of the longsword, looking at averages is very misleading. For example a 1kg longsword isn't going to be effective for cutting if its 135cm long. 1-1.5kg longswords are the average weight when considering many shorter longswords used for civilian defense, but the longsword used in hema competition are based on those used in the manuscripts which are arm pit length, around 130-140cm, from what sources of historical longswords I've read, their weights range all over the place with just small variations in length, even if we say we are talking only about the longswords mentioned in the manuscripts and we limit it to the 16th century, what small samples I've seen on the internet show longswords as heavy as 2.2kg and as light as 1.4kg. But most seem to be between 1.6kg to 1.9kg slightly heavier than the common feder which is 1.5kg. That said I've used a 1.9kg feder and its hardly slower than a 1.5kg it just requires better technique and fitness but I've also used a 1.75kg feder than felt easier to use than a 1.5 feder. Here is the largest sample size of longswords I've seen posted from the 13th/14th,15th and 16th centuries, it has only some 60 samples which is not enough to draw any conclusions other than it seems like you can have any kind of longsword you want: hroarr.com/article/longswords-and-their-data/
The name of the sword is a federshwert, which means "Feather Sword" I believe so they are light. But my regenyei custom weights about the same, and most live edge longswords Ive held have also been light. I have a greatsword which is much heavier, but its also overbuilt (mass production, I guess they don't want them breaking) so its a beast. Good for cardio and strength training as my fencing sword is much lighter.
@@poopsiedoodlesp8506 Is that always true though? The katana has a wide range of POBs, going from 1 inch all the way to 6. Longswords are generally much narrower, going from 3-5.
I watch & support boxing, college wrestling, mix martial arts, street survival videos, and etc.(and not in that order). So why not watch fencing since it's all survival. And any way the jab in boxing supposedly is based on a fencing tactic.
I think video games and movies have tarnished our perception of longswords, I know they did with mine! A 2handed longsword isn't necessarily significantly heavier and thus slower to swing. If anything, with 2 hands being able to pivot with each other, it seems like you can actually have MORE fine control with a 2h longsword. In any case, I know that they are much lighter than most people think!
Fencing is fine, has a rich history and looks elegant, but I personally greatly prefer this style. Ongoing bouts with modern scoring afterward imitates the thrill of boxing or mma. Fencing's stop and start makes for an intense couple of seconds, but the green light / red light makes it a poor experience for the spectator. And the emphasis on defense and withdrawal is a nice nod to its roots in combat.
The reason fencing stops after each touch is because if it was “real life” dueling, the person who got hit would be gravely wounded and have lost the duel right then and there. You have to think of each point in fencing as separate individual duels.
Longswords and Feders are not difficult to wield, much easier than wielding a single handed sword. Single handed swords take a lot of forearm, wrist and shoulder power to wield for any significant period of time. I train with both types and two handed swords are not very taxing in my opinion. I would say it actually takes shit loads more strength to wield a single handed rapier than a double handed 6 pound great-sword (Montante spadona etc)
Longsword are not that heavy, first of all they only weight up to 1.8 kg, but most importantly you hold it with both hands most of the time. Even greatwords are light because of that. you can use more muscles and much easier counterbalance the movement of the sword. Quit heavy and exhausting is something like sword and buckler or rapier and buckler or rapier and dagger. The weapons also weight around 1-1.2 kg but you have something els in the other hand that is around the same weight, and because you always fighting with a streched out hands it is quit exhausting.
Yes, you can swing a longsword like this. Longswords were pretty light at about 1.5 to 3lbs. Even Zweihanders were relatively light, coming in at 7lbs the heaviest.
I think you may have mixed up kg with pounds. Longswords were usually anywhere from 2.2 to 3.3 pounds and seldom went below 2.2, though they could IIRC get up to about 5 pounds on the further end. That’s getting into Zwei territory though since those could be 4.4 to 7.1 typically. Really weird where the crossover from longsword to zweihander actually happens. I’ve heard some people say it’s length, some weight and others a combination of both.
Eduardo Lopez ah OK, see, things you don’t think about are what makes you look like an ass while not trying to be an ass, at least in my case 😅 I’ve personally never handled a longsword under 3 pounds. Goes to show how much I actually get out.
I won't say there were absolutely no 4 lb. (~1.8 Kgs.) Longswords but I would argue that that would be an extreme case and a particularly heavy Longsword. Most Longswords on the heavy end of the spectrum being closer to 3.0 to 3.5 lbs (~1.4 to ~1.5 kgs.).
@@edmillan7427 I agree 3 lbs is the most common. But I stated the range in which they appear in history to emphasize swords are never "heavy". 4 lbs would be considered a particularly heavy longsword, while the general public seems to assume that swords were on average 20 lbs or heavier.
My guess is the quarterstaff things is a tradition, meaning they probably knew how to fight as well as the contestants, being able to defend themselves with the quarterstaff if necessary, that woman's first instinct was to block a sword with her arm instead of a quarterstaff.
If you like fights like these you should check out longsword, sword and shield duels and triathlons from full contact knights fights since we were doing this continuous fights wey longer than HEMA guys. Sword and shield: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xRMH66_Yntc.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iggsMocLNrM.html triathlons: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lMh2ihnzO0E.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-I98D7APwEOM.html
The full contact knight fights don't make as much sense (to me) though. Since you're not aiming to kill your opponent, the weapons are all blunt. But it's a knock-out sport, which is better suited for things like maces, but those aren't allowed, because they're TOO effective. It's a bit like having a boxing tournament where you're only allowed to hit with an open hand.
+Martin Schou "But it's a knock-out sport, which is better suited for things like maces, but those aren't allowed, because they're TOO effective." --- They are allowed. The only type of weapons that is banned is flail. All other types of blunt weapons like maces, warhammers or even lucerne hammers are allowed. BTW, I can attest from my own experience that maces, in fact, are not necessarily that much more effective from blunt falchions/bohurt swords. "The full contact fights don't make as much sense (to me) though." --- They are based (inspired) on bohurts, which are historical types of tournaments held in XV and XVI century where participants were fighting using heavy blunt swords and maces. We just spiced it a little adding polearms and axes to the equation.
people overestimate how hard it is to swing a sword. Swords were very, very overpowered back in the day. The only thing I think isn't accurate with the training swords is flex. Also like note, a deep cut into the hand or in a finger or something is enough to completely sway the fight. You don't need to chop heads off with every strike. And armor was ridiculously useful as well. Armor was neither too tiring nor very restrictive of movement. You can do pretty much everything the same with and without armor. And a sword is never going to do shit against a fully armored opponent. That's why maces started getting used - trying to smash the armor with blunt force and turn the knight's internals into mush.
That means that wrestling was an extremely important part of 15th century longsword fighting. Trap your opponents' weapon, take them down and finish them with a dirk or dagger, or stab through the visor.
Nice. I was thinking that these weapons matches should include wrestling & disarming as well. Like a weapons version of Mixed Martial Arts. That would be fucking AMAZING.
I think some tournaments don't allow heavy use of wrestling techniques with the swords because there is an inherantly higher risk of injury than with the swords alone. The swords are blunted, and designed to not hit with too muh force, so the sparring armor is enough to protect, but no amount of armor can protect you from a dislocation or broken bone from moving the wrong way during a takedown. Couple that with the fact that the historical techniques for wrestling in the manuscripts aren't exactly . . . gentle, shall we say, and there is a very high risk of injury if someone gets carried away.
@@clearmelody6252 absolutely true. In my club we have had some disarms and shoving is common and close grappling is common, but no one wants to go full on ringen and break someone's leg.
@@redriot-unbreakable9476 So are their legs, in that they give them the ability to jump out of the way. Doesn't mean they always get it done quick enough.
@@jeffreytackett3922 they always stay away like the referee here, to prevent that. And it's not like the battle is going to go from far to bear the referee in an instant, she has time.
This is good fencing. Way above what I'm capable of. But it's not close to what I think is the best I've seen. Swordfish open, semis and the final 2017. The three as one continuous duel, is magnnificent..
The heaviest Long sword that I know of is 6 Pounds, plus they are incredibly well balanced in terms of weight distribution so they feel even lighter in the hand.
how would sword-fights actually had occurred in them past times? And between the best fighters. I mean wholly fuck. There’s so much things to consider. Incredibly fast dynamics possibility between lethality of prevailing, and arm mobility lost forever. Zoning out the enemy’s courage and control fully just by swinging the sword attacking really fast all the time. How much did swords weight though? Cause if they have considerable weight then things are slightly more grounded/slightly less randomly chaotic, thing that is much much better than all this.
@@msDanielp369 Sword fights back in the day between two elite warriors, unarmored like in a proper duel scenario, would have lasted seconds. It's like in self-defense; you aim to win the fight by any and all means the quickest you can. The longer it draws on, the more tired you are and the more mistakes will be made.
It's epic, but I dunno if it's more realistic than breaking after each hit- after all, if you get hit with a sword IRL, you're probably dead, dying, or missing an important chunk of your anatomy at the very least.
I'm not a big fan of continuous fencing. It can teach bad habits. Your not going to get up from more than 1 or 2 real weapon hits. Continuous is nice for a sport though.
Why? I mean maybe safety, but getting close happens frequently in longsword fencing, there are techniques to deal with that and, assuming we aren't barring it's use for safety reasons, even ringen.
What I will say is she should be using the staff she's freakin' holding. That's the whole reason it's so long; so the ref can put the tip in between opponents to signal to them to break it up and reset. All while keeping the ref at a minimum safe distance. Although I do agree that in ring refs should be wearing some sort of armor. Hand and head protection at the very least. Accident's have, had, and WILL happen again.
The thing is, the ref holding the staff is there only to stop the fight when the judges call it, nothing more nothing less. So he should actively seek to maintain as much distance from the fight as possible, since he has no say in when to stop the exchange.
+Fight Commentary Breakdowns Feders or the blunt swords they're using can vary in weight but are about the same weight as proper longsword. They can be more flexible though for safety.
This was a good video! I do have some comments as someone who does the sport though. First off, as many people before me have pointed out, Longswords really are that light. People overestimate their weight very often. Second, the fighters bring all of their own equipment, so they can't really dictate the color of shoe the guy is wearing. My guess is they gave the other guy the red band cause he was wearing red pants, which are much larger than the red shoes. Stuff like the takedowns are standard and allowed in HEMA and a big part of why I love it. The lighting difference with the cameras is really a shame, but I've reffed fights before (I run a club) and I gotta say, I would prefer to be unarmored and the the risk. The refs know what they're doing, they know how to stay out of the way, and it's hard enough to keep track of those swords without a mesh obscuring your vision and limiting your peripheral. That's what the stick is for.
They are light and have very good leverage. There are rare cases of 4 pound or 4.5 pound warswords, which exist on the highest length of longsword classification.
I don't think this looks like what sword fighting duels woud be, for the only reason that one hit could kill you instantly. You wouldn't fight so aggressively, you would be more defensive and calculating your moves, this is more like swordplay with armour using techniques for dueling without it, what do you think?
Buti88HD It's a nuanced issue. There are medical and historical records of people surviving and even still fighting after multiple grievous injuries. That being said, it's also very true that a single well-aimed, well-executed, and forceful blow to a vulnerable area like the head, neck, or chest could end a fight pretty much instantly. The majority of HEMA tournaments use a system you might like more, in which the fighters stop after a single well-executed hit and are awarded a point if there is no immediate counter hit. Personally, I think it's better to practice assuming that, regardless of how devastating a blow you deliver, your opponent can came back at you at full strength and be ready to counter that. But I think both forms of training definitely have a place in HEMA. Also, there are armored HEMA bouts as well that are totally different in technique and very interesting to watch too.
How heavy is their attire? Like is that simulating the weight or restrictions regular medieval attire or is that as heavy as actual plate or chainmail armor? Dont really have any real experience with HEMA.
Just to expand on what Tomas said: there I'd a separate category for armoured fights, where the contestants wear full armour. Both the styles used and the scoring is drastically different as a result of the armour worn.
Edge alignment is definitely considered. If you struck a blow to the head, that would be a good chunk of points. However, if you had struck the head but with the flat of the blade, it counts FAR less. Another thing they consider is if you can properly parry or defend against your opponents counter measure to your hit. If you can't, you lose points on your hit.
Should there be several grades of competition based on levels of armor? Example would be, no armor, mid armor (meaning mail and some kind of gambeson) and then full plate mail armor? Because come on. The historical context was, this martial art was done in the context of a certain amount of armor. You couldn't just slap the head and get a meaningful wound on your opponent, because they had a helmet on. With full plate mail, the only vulnerable places were the crotch, the armpits and the visor. So shouldn't we have different rules to account for all of this?
aaron swallow This martial art represents unarmored civilian martial arts and is based in late medieval early modern fencing treatises. Training armored combat is too dangerous because it usually involves trying to peel the opponents armor off and jabbing daggers into the groin, armpits, or visor.
@@beojack4592 I have never seen that successfully used in HEMA, besides, Geißeln targets the lead leg usually from the outside which is where the main arteries do NOT run. And when it was attempted, I usually witnessed the one who used Gießeln get hit in the head from over exposing it and not being able to cover.
Practice swords weight usually 300-500 grams less than their real counterpact, this allows you to practice more time without getting tired. So those swords may be a bit less heavy than the real ones, but no so much. Real longswords weight from 1.3kg to 1.8kg, they are not that heavy, you may be confused with Hollywood's depiction of longswords which are pretty inaccurate
Feders (paratschwerts, federschwerts, fechterschwerts .. whatever ;-) - practice longswords used from the 16th century onwards ( s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bf/16/06/bf1606150eef8ad9aa9af1931ed80f50.jpg )- weighs usually the same as a real longswords, but they tend to be balanced a little closer to the hand for safety reasons. Some feders on the market are actually heavier than most real longswords. The speed they are moving the swords is pretty standard for top class fencers (for really fast fencing, look at this (especially the last strike) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-strh2GBMlf8.html and other videos of that channeů), its not so much about strength, as about utilizing the movement). Swords just are not blunt force weapons, they rely on speed and nimbleness.
+Mateo Lemes ...no they don't. Any Feders I can find tend to weight about 1350-1600 grams which is on the upper end of the spectrum in length and weight more like a late Renaissance Longsword than a 13-early 15th Century longsword which can be quite a bit shorter.
Continuous fencing is of course great nonsense one blow with a sharp Longsword would kill or maim the opponent and they would be unable to continue. But I guess it is more entertaining for an uneducated audience.
@@tarquiniussuperbus21 Yeah as someone who has done competitive "real" fencing in the past I agree. A lot of other folks in the comments don't quite understand haha
traditional fencing is much more realistic than this. Too much getting close and big wavy movements. Fencers would eat these people alive who need to make big slow movements for everything
i did sports fencing for several years and later escrima for quite a while, training knife fighting and somef sword fighting amongst other things. i dont claim to be an expert but from my knowledge these guys do some major mistakes. for example taking big swings or holding the sword with the blade pointing backwards which leaves you open. the key to fighting with blunt weapons is to make small moves and to hold the weapon before your body
this isn't sport fencing, in sport fencing a light touch counts as a hit but HEMA takes itself very seriously, doesn't matter how sharp or of waht origins the sword comes from, a light touch is non-lethal, it's not a lightsaber that's why they need some mass behind it, they're following medieval documented techniques which have worked and saved lives. That's why if you pitch a sport fencer to a HEMA fencer in a fight to the death I would put my money on the HEMA fencer.
Holding the sword with the hands close and point retracted threatens a heavy downward cut, it also keeps your hands further away from the opponent as a crossguard isn't as protective as a baskethilt or a shell that you'd see on a foil, epee, or sabre. This guard position was also very prevalent in the available primary sources on period longsword fencing. Tippy tappy cuts usually aren't counted in tournament settings as while they may cut raw flesh, they probably wouldn't cut through a jacket or score a debilitating wound. If you've ever watched test cutting, Japanese or European, successful cuts tend to either require a good deal of rotation, or to be very grounded
@Richard Shin Pfftt I found a katana weaboo. I bet you've never practiced any swordsmanship. Anyone who says HEMA is a joke is gonna get wrecked sparring. Japanese swordsmen have no experience in full contact sparring. Most Asian swordsmen have no experience in full contact sparring. Kendo isn't swordsmanship. It's a game. A sport. Not a martial art. Kendoka will not beat a HEMA fencers because they don't practice actual technique. You can watch a lot of these mix sparrings between HEMA and Kendo, and almost always HEMA wins.
Kenjutsu is the only genuine Japanese swordsmanship. Kendo is a watered-down sport. HEMA is much more versatile, realistic, and historically correct than Kendo.
@@batteredwarrior There are numerous videos on youtube you can find of Longsword and Kendo practitioners facing one another. If you are a Katana fanboy I'm sure none of them will change your mind, but if you are open minded they are out there for you to see for yourself
