Correction Bits and Single vs Double Jointed Mouthpieces 

I feel like raleighlink14 has manipulated a lot of her viewers even me to beleive that bits are bad but they do as much damage as say a hackamores I realize that now

I trail ride a hot Paso Fino cross gelding in a pelham and want to move away from that. Tell me about your experiences with a correction bit on the trail with a Paso Fino.

Mislead by what exactly? Is there any rational reasoning behind the emotional accusations?

Bob Avila has a cheek design that will have a particular balance/neutral position and is a swivel cheek design. His line of bits has different mouthpieces though, including correction bits. All correction bits have swivel cheeks, so they all rotate independently on that axis. It's the correction mouthpiece's particular articulation/swivel points that make it so the cheeks rotate together when pulled back. So, I'd have to see the specific mouthpiece of the BA bit to answer the question. You can send me a pic through my website if you want.

Couldn't find where to upload a photo, but mine is a Partrade correction bit. I bought it from a well-known trainer in Acampo, CA. It is balanced with shanks down. Can you recommend a particular maker for a correction bit? @@DanielDauphin

@@laurielord5590 If you want to send me a picture, you'll have to do that via email, or facebook, or instagram. I will say here that it's very important to my message that I remain unbiased and impartial, so I never publicly recommend or endorse any particular makers/manufacturers. I will say that most of the ones making bits these days make bits of reasonable functionality and quality, as long as you've selected a design that's meant to work well in a horse's mouth, as opposed to those designs that are meant to look cool and shiny on a salesroom floor. All of those big makers have designs that are simply meant to look cool and get sold. Showing people the difference is a big part of what I do.

While Correction Bits have a mean sounding name, they are still simple mechanical devices, subject to the laws of physics. They have a neutral position, just like any other bit, where there's nothing but relief going on. They are also controlled by the reins just like any other bit. If the horse does softly what the rider asks, and the rider asked softly and releases with good timing, then they really aren't particularly harsh at all. Just as with any other bit, the rider can have poor timing and ask things abruptly, without warning, and way too hard and cause the horse to brace and become defensive. That effect, however, is certainly not unique to the correction bit. Any bit, and I mean any bit, that has tongue relief built into it has increased bar pressure because the surface area of the bit is concentrating pressure on the outsides of the tongue and the bars of the mouth underneath the tongue. That's simply how the mechanics and anatomy interact, and again, with any bit that has tongue relief of any kind. Bar pressure and tongue pressure are inversely proportional, always. A bit with more tongue pressure has less bar pressure and a bit with tongue relief (less tongue pressure) will have more bar pressure. That being said, the neurology makes it VERY CLEAR that the tongue is FAR more sensitive than the bars of the mouth, and I mean in a whole different universe in terms of sensitivity and enervation. The tongue is the only part of the body that is involved in 3 of the 5 senses, and contains both sensory and motor neurons, as well as chemoreceptors. It is also the first and most neurologically wired part of the body for all mammals. If it wasn't, babies wouldn't be able to suck to eat. If you think about young children, they tend to explore the world through their mouths while they still have only basic control of their hands and legs and despite being able to see. They only really understand an object after exploring it in their mouth. The vast majority of bit evasions and vices involve the tongue, not the bars. If a horse has injury to his bars from a bit, you can bet that some stuff was going very badly wrong and his tongue is even more of a wreck. A horse doesn't use his tongue to protect his bars. He withdraws his tongue (the sensitive part) and puts the bit on his bars (the numb part) for relief. I couldn't agree more with what you said about the snaffle.

If you really are interested in learning more about bits, you really should take a look at our video on the subject, available from our website, or on Eclectic Horseman.

Unfortunately, this isn't a black and white answer, especially without seeing you ride the horse. If by "only one truly fits my horse" you mean actually fitting the horse's mouth physically, then I'd just ask for a new bit for Christmas. From what you are describing, I would advise a more lateral type of bit, like a single jointed one. That being said, you could probably overcome his resistance to the double jointed bit and get him laterally soft again by simply slowing things down and forming some new and better habits. All of that being said, I'd have absolutely no concern with you continuing to ride him in the hackamore type bridles or halter either. Good Luck!

Randy B I really like standard hackamores. Not at all a fan of mechanical hacks. One thing about them is that you definitely have to get your basics down pat, especially lateral flexion. It's pretty easy for them to run through if they don't respect it.

This is a standard Hackamore. I will research the lateral flexion. Thank you for your response!!!

Randy B in the hackamore the technique is called "doubling". Pretty sure Al Dunning has a good video on it.

I had a hard-mouthed horse that kids had been riding found out the only thing that worked was a hackamore and as a matter of fact, i ended up replacing the chin chain with a pice baling wire. Sounds cruel but when i pulled back on the rains lightly the old mare would stop.....finely....lol

Haley Johnson I make it a point not to directly address other clinicians and how they go about things. In my videos and blogs I have addressed the fad of being behind the vertical. There are 2 main physiological aspects of that posture that are unfavorable. We have this exact topic slated for a future video.

@@DanielDauphin the only horse I ever rode with a Spade was so well trained he basically didn't need hands to stop at all. Just shift of weight. When we bought him, we switched to the lowest curb available. We tried a snaffle, but he liked the curb better.

If you'd like to email me through my website, I'd be happy to point you at several makers that have quality bits. I don't like to do that sort of thing publicly because that turns into free advertising for them. lol

Lori Neid I'm fine with it. For most of my career, I used a halter or a sidepull for my first few rides.

Lori needs q

Our video, “More Than a Bit... o’ Information,” goes into depth of different progressions in different disciplines and why, but the short answer is that many English horses (Hunters, Jumpers, and low-mid level dressage) do stay in some form of snaffle throughout their lives. They tend to want to ride in contact, and leverage + contact = a very big mess.

@@DanielDauphin Thankyou so MUCH! I will watch that video as well. ❤

@@tamaragohn5980 www.dauphinhorsemanship.com/mercantile/

Sea Cones that's a pretty broad question. Could you be more specific?

Potentially. That's the sort of question that would just depend on the horse and the rider who is showing him. Generally, faster events that get the adrenaline pumping, like barrels and sorting, would be times when I would want a pretty mild bit. That way, if the rider got excited and pulled harder than they meant to (90% of the time) the horse wouldn't be overwhelmed. If you have a soft horse, but also have soft hands and good emotional control of yourself, then a correction bit may very well work out just fine for all of those.

What would you consider "a pretty mild" bit for those events? Particularly sorting and penning. Thanks

Generally, a plain Jane snaffle.

I'm not sure exactly to which part of this video you are referring, so I'll speak generally. If you are speaking of a snaffle, or in the double bridle's case, bradoon, then, the snaffle, whether single or double jointed, will be touching the palate when the horse is at rest. Upon taking up the slack in the reins, the first thing that happens is the soft tissues, mostly the tongue, being compressed and withdrawing the bit away from the palate. This has been proven many times by many sources with X-rays. You can clearly see the space between the bit and the palate when the reins are pulled on. You mentioned the port as well, and that is a different case. Like the snaffle, the port of a curb bit will be in contact with the hard palate when the horse is at rest and simply holding the bit. We don't consider, and this is pretty universal, not just my personal opinion, that a port of less than 2 inches in height applies real pressure to the palate. This is because the horse can easily open his mouth and control that port pressure on his palate unless the port is above that height. The exception to some of these things is when we use various nosebands to artificially keep the horse's mouth closed. This certainly keeps the horse from escaping palate pressure from a port, though that shouldn't be a concern with something like the mullen mouth you mentioned. Things do get pretty complicated here, for instance, the adjustment of the curb chain is what determines the full degree of rotation of the curb and how much it can "Stand up". Neurologically speaking, however, the tongue is far and away the most sensitive part of the horse's mouth, and it's not even close. The absolute most common body language that we see exhibited by a horse having issues with the harshness of the bit in his mouth (and to be frank, really with the hands controlling that bit) is in defensiveness with his tongue. Unfortunately, many of these signs are dogmatically referenced as "good things" with the foamy mouth being the poster child of a major problem being touted as a good thing. Defensive contraction of the tongue leads to something called dorsal displacement of the soft palate. The soft palate and the epiglottis are in the back of the throat and seal together to separate the airway from the mouth and esophagus. Horses can only breath through their noses so this seal is critically important. While the soft palate is nowhere near the bit, it is forced open by the tongue being withdrawn. This is a major part of when we start to see failure of the mouth seal and lots of foam. This is a very complicated subject. Certainly, each individual's conformation is an important factor as well. I've spent innumerable hours doing the research and spent 3 years making a video that we sell on the subject. The first hour of the that video is on anatomy and physiology of the various parts of the horse the bit affects, mostly concentrating on the tongue. If you are having issues with acceptance of just about any bit, far and away, the tongue is likely the part that you are offending. I'd also like to say thanks for keeping your comment of disagreement respectful and civil. That seems to be rarer and rarer these days. Cheers. www.dauphinhorsemanship.com/mercantile

@@DanielDauphin Thank you for this explanation of the excessive foaming. I always found it hard to understand.

Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where you can disagree? I stand by everything that I've said in this an other videos. Some of what I've said is incontrovertible fact, like the physics behind these bits and the mechanics of how they work Other things are my opinion based on my experiences. Your mileage may vary. A Billy Allen is indeed a wonderful mouthpiece, but it has different strong points and weaknesses than typical double and single jointed bits. Not every tool is the right tool for every job.