Cosmological Argument - Argument for God's Existence | Dawah Bites with Subboor Ahmad 

Same here

wait this is sahoor? damnn

So what's funny??

@Omega Hakim it's evolution 🤣

@@iamharald but not a natural selection ofc

ikr, i found that interesting too, it shocked me at first

NomadicThought80 _"how can cause and effect relationship exist if TIME itself had a beginning?"_ This could happen because we measure time/change based on spacetime and all it takes to constrict scenarios like that is that spacetime is not fundamental in terms of making things happen. You'd still probably end up with something time-like - at least there would have to be a way to arrange states of nature in a similar fashion. _"Our understanding of causality is dependent on time."_ _"No cause can happen AFTER the effect. Cause needs to happen BEFORE the effect."_ No. Causation is what we call nature interacting with itself. Everything that happens is an interaction of some sort and causation is a simultaneous thing on a physical level(A guy kicking a ball both presupposes his foot and the ball being in the right places and they interact during the entire kick. None of them can be objectively declared to be the cause alone). To be able to talk about things like you suggest, you have to move to a conceptual/intentional level and say things like "The cause of me being able to get into the theater was that I bought a ticket earlier." _"If there is no time then we cannot talk about causality as we are used to in our world view."_ Probably not, but it could be very close. If it is possible for it to exist without the physical phenomenon of time, we could almost certainly discuss it in terms of state transitions.

what about a-temporal causations? e.g when ball is kept on pillow, the cause and effect happen at the same time

All trolls SHOULD be blocked.

@Humza Khan because according to Ahlul’ Sunnah, we know God exists from the Fitra. Are these philosophical arguments clearer than the proof of the Fitra? If the Fitra of those who reject the creator didn’t lead them to God, then these arguments are much less likely to guide them. Besides, by posing such arguments you are suggesting that we need theoretical proof and argumentation to establish this belief, this is the Bid’a of Ahlul Kalaam. It also suggests that the fact that The Creator exists is a matter that lacks absolute certainty in that it is “more likely” that He exists, and not 100% Truth. This contradicts the Quran: Their messengers said, “Can there be doubt in Allah Creator of the heavens and the earth?...” BarakAllahu feek

@Humza Khan Brother, you shouldn’t even have the slightest shadow of a doubt regarding Allah! That is dangerous! The Creed of a Muslim is only correct if it os established upon absolute certainty. And you are right in that Ahlul Kalam spread doubts in the hearts of Muslims with their debates when they think they are giving their viewers certainty.

@Humza Khan Just a note regarding the big bang, I heard from Muslim scholars that we cannot use this theory to prove God, because this theory claims to explain the beginning of time and place and that before it, there is no time and no place. And this means this theory is false. If we say that the big bang theory proves God, then we would be saying Allah is out of time and that He is in no place. But we know that Allah was there before the universe was created. Allah is eternal, meaning there was no moment in time where Allah was not there. Same with place, Allah is the most High, He is in a place high above His creation. So this theory actually makes God non-existent. Dear brother, Allah said this about the creation of the universe: ‎﴿ما أَشهَدتُهُم خَلقَ السَّماواتِ وَالأَرضِ وَلا خَلقَ أَنفُسِهِم وَما كُنتُ مُتَّخِذَ المُضِلّينَ عَضُدًا﴾ [الكهف: ٥١] ‎‏I did not make them witness to the creation of the heavens and the earth or to the creation of themselves, and I would not have taken the misguiders as assistants. ‎‏- Saheeh International So the event of the “creation of the universe” is a singular event that no man has ever witnessed. Thus this event is not part of science, it is part of the unseen or the “Ghaib”. And according to Muslim scholars, “cosmology” which studies the origin of the universe is nothing more than pseudoscience and claiming knowledge of the Ghaib, and Allah knows best.

@Humza Khan Almost noone believes the universe is eternal. The only reason they do so is because they’ll have to accept it has a cause,... Also it has to have a beginning, because the universe is expanding.

@Humza Khan “Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass (ratqan), then We opened them out (fafataqnahuma)? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (21:31) Allah when He decrees a thing He says be and it is, maybe Allah did create the universe thanks to it, because Allah gave us basic scientifical facts and also asked us to research upon them. Because reflecting on the creation of Allah is also a type of worship. Allahoe a’lam.

So it must be unlimited. We know though that the universe has limited variables.

In Islam we belief God is uncreated and where do you get the information from that man created God it’s a natural belief of Humans to belief in God and there’s evidence for this based on scientific researches

Because the odds of the tuning of the universe to come to the state we see now by random is practically impossible. Hence intelligence was necessary for its find tuning.

God is timeless means God exists beyond time. Time is applicable to what He creates. Time applies to the creation, not to the Creator. God creates time by creating events.

You think God that created everything is God is handicapped or something? God created everything, including time, I invite you to learn about Islam

Exactly - God can't be timely as that is the attributes of the creations. God is nothing comparable to His creations.

But Calam cosmological argument was made hundreds of years before the big bang theory was put .....

This argument is very old it is in the books of Muslim scholars before 1000 years ago ....wake up

@Honor I am yet to see someone debanking the argument from dependency . yes it s endeed solid.

I love how atheist apologists take on scientific theoretical ideas (minus the understanding of its underlying philosophy, of course) to try and prove their already decided conclusions. when the scientific view changes they don't realise that the islamic argument has never changed because its logical, not scientific. *Sigh* catchup and learn a little to save yourself looking foolish

Roger Foster God does not need a creator. That's what makes him God. If God had a creator then he wouldn't be God anymore. It makes sense to say that God has no creator. It makes no sense to say the universe has no creator, because we know for a fact that the universe had a beginning.

Spined1234 Thank you for your criticism. Remember though; Denial is not a river in Egypt.

Roger Foster Awesome rebuttal, bro. Boy, you sure shook my faith with your astounding intellect!

1234? What kind of rebuttal would make you happy? I can't see how I can rebut, a rebuttal that rebuts itself. Also question for you: If faith can be used to justify ANY claim, what use is it?

Roger Foster It doesn't rebute itself. I'm just pointing out through simple logic that God has no creator, otherwise he wouldn't be God. The Quran makes this clear. "He (God) neither begets, nor is born" (112:3)

If no one can, as he proves, nothing got done, the universe did not happen! But it is here already, some one timeless had to initiate it. But the same can not happen to where the 1st (God) came from. Watch again.