Couch Co-Op on Console AND PC?! - PoE 2 News 

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The people who do want to play on console will actually have an economy that exists and isn't wildly more expensive than in the PC economy. Coming from someone who started on console and moved to PC, the game will grow much easier if they can actually play with a real trade market.

3:25 It was $100 (and a drink), and you got real damn close!, so so doubt you could beat it now! Tried to find you later to get you a drink regardless, sad I wasn't able to.

11:00 Complexity and Depth do NOT go hand-by-hand, not necessarily. A clear example, when they did Pathfinder 2 (the Tabletop RPG, not the PoE Character) they switched from the (very complex) old system of having a Standard Action, and a Movement Action, and a Free Action, and a Step if you didn't use any Movement during your actions, and a Full-Round Action instead of using your actions, and so on... to just giving you 3 Action Points. Now, "Charging" at an enemy wasn't a separate rule that costed a Full-Round Action; but instead you could just simply Move+Move+Attack; or instead of having a Full-Round Action attack, you could just decide to Attack twice or thrice by spending 2 or 3 actions; and instead of having a Step (a small 1-square movement that doesn't generate Attacks of Opportunity from enemies) that can be used only if you didn't use any other kind of movement in that round; it's now just also 1 action, and you can choose to step 3 times in a round if you want.... ...all of a sudden the came had more depth, more choices and options... while being simpler and less complex. Good design allows to reduce complexity while increasing depth and options.

I have 2 kids now .. farming haha

The extra hover tool tips are huge, not having to find an external source to understand keywords and mecanics is so good!

2 v 2 couch co-op race might be fun

Co-op = level 2 characters at a time on 1 account. Great time to be alive!

This is probably the most positivity I've seen floating around PoE 2 since the announcement of the crossbow and spear back in 2021. It's amazing to see lots of people excited for the game on consoles and GGG appear to have outdone themselves with the implementation. Cannot wait to question them in LA about some deeper features on both PC and console and how compatible they'll be!

Honestly couch coop is massive news for me. My favorite time is playing couch games with my family back in the PS2 days when there were a ton of

Damn. This sounds and looks like a game that will take another 12 years of my life. We might never see Star Citizen to deliver on it's promises but we sure as hell got one of a kind aRPG juggernaut. PoE1 was great but PoE2 so far looks like a game I'd make specifically for myself. Holy shit, I've tried to stay away to not get my hopes up but god damn... I think I'm gonna cry, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen T_T

I hope they listen to you and allow mouse and keyboard controls for console, honestly. The best solution even if it doesn't completely solve the "dumbing down" since they have to keep controllers in mind. On the other hand, that would probably still be the case if there was no cross play given the support of controllers on PC, so...

Overall for the game all of these things are great. But Ziz definitely is right in that them pushing controller will affect how the game will play overall. It will definitely affect for example skill design WAY more than in poe 1.

It's crazy how far consoles have gone, seriously the idea of being able to play with your friends account while they're at your house away from their system is just so neat of an advancement. Like when I was a kid you either played online together or you played on your couch and are limited by your account's progress and features. So cool, not going to get me to buy another console but AMAZING for console players that want to play this game together.

As someone who plays on pc and has friends that only play on console this is a great thing. I really love that they bring couch koop to pc as well.

What is the bad part of crossplay. It leaves your game exactly as it is and gives us the chance to play with more people if we want to. Literally no downside

I honestly have enjoyed playing arpgs with controller last couple years so this is awesome to hear that there is proper support.

Haven't used a console since n64. PC all the way

complexity ≠ depth. chess is not a complex game. you can teach it to a child in like 10mins. but it is indeed very deep and takes years to master. you don't need high complexity in a game for it to be compelling for thousands of hours.

I personally don't think the inclusion of console players is going to "dumb down" skills; in fact, I believe it will enhance gameplay, depending on how they approach skills in general. For starters, clicking on a screen and an effect happening is one of the most archaic uses of mouse and keyboard and is generally boring. It can be incredibly precise in your click, but in an ARPG, you don't need pixel-level precision like in an FPS. I find it infinitely more interesting when timing, rhythm, and duration of button presses are the primary ways to interact with an effect because it's no longer binary: "I click... I jump there. Much brain." It sounds way more interesting to me if I can hold my leap button, and releasing it completes the apex of my jump (if not completed before I let go, based on stats, abilities, and other factors), then I descend. For example, with Lightning Warp, holding down the button could transform you into a ball of electricity, allowing you to move at increased speed to bounce through enemies and appear at a distance away, fully in your control. This enforces a more unique approach to skill design that forces the devs to think outside the box. What if call lightning skills generally auto-target? This allows a different playstyle and lets developers tweak their stats based on ease of use. That means slow and more deliberate attacks can be more effective, but you have to figure out when to use them. I like the spear skill, for instance, that stabs multiple times and if you activate it again, you get an additional stab with extra effects. It creates a game of chicken. Do I want to complete this move for this effect? Because getting hit by this monster will hurt. Risk/reward. Engagement. Gameplay. We can have skills that require precise timing of button presses to maximize or apply effects, rotations of the mouse on screen or analog stick to swing heavy weapons for bonus area of effect or power, skill charging like Mega Man in MvC or Balrog in SF where you can sacrifice your finger for a button and see how long you can hold it down to bolster an effect on release (while still being able to use any other button), or just moving an area of effect on the ground to where we want something to go. But the point is, you should always be engaged. This is a real opportunity to see what the game can be, and I trust GGG.

Only place I found controller to be superior was doing the manifested wealth maps with controller JUST BECAUSE I could spam X to loot everything as I ran along. It was glorious. Hope PC gets the "loot closest item"- hotkey too. Combat feels nice on controller but inventory management requires mouse and keyboard. Wish there was a hybrid option to have controller in maps and mouse in hideout.

You really min maxed when the baby was due. Perfect timing in between leagues. ;) oh, and congrats on the new chaos farmer. Glad to hear everyone is doing well. Cheers!

hopefully it will be a unified trade market.

FINALLY CONSOLE IS FIXED!

I hope they don't focus on console/controller too much ... one of the devs says at the end "I'm looking forward to converting everyone to use a controller" ... that makes me worry that mouse + keyboard gameplay may suffer because everything is optimzed for controllers

6:25 what the hell that looks sick! I want that for PC PoE 2 lol

After playing on pc with m&k for years , then switching to my handhelds and using the built in conteoller i can tell you i much pefer playing rhe game with a controller , and doing any crafting with m@k. Im excited to have better controller support for sure

The best example of the console vs pc thing to me is when the original Halo games were ported to PC. At the time, console players were saying it was actually a difficult and engaging campaign (for the time). In the port to PC they had to speed up all the action speed for all enemies, and make everything do way more damage than console just so you wouldn’t just completely trivialize everything.

i play PoE on pc with controller and its a decent experience. With PoE2 being twin stick its probably going to make controller even better.

I have wanted to switch to PC PoE for a few years now, I started playing PoE on Xbox when it first released and have spent a lot of money on mtx that is currently stuck on console. So with all current mtx transferring to PoE 2 that means I can now use all of it on PC. My hope is that if they see positive feedback from this they will also add cross progression to current PoE.

Any game that builds out console play ultimately destroys the game. RIP POE2! Console isnt for gamers and requires the game design to be dumbed down and the mechanics to be destroyed from full movement and control which only PC master race can achieve. Sad day RIP GGG!

Clickable tags mechanic is literally what BG3 did and it's great. Good they implemented it in PoE 2.

I'd like to contribute with a shiny tabula rasa for your new born's levening gear

Couch coop is bu far the best news so far. I LOVE that

Crossplay is a fucking plague on gaming. PoE 2 is going to have such limited end game juicing so that it can run on consoles

As a father of multiple children myself, I have to say i really appreciate the couch coop and full cross platform play. Being able to share my favorite games with my kids has actually been a challenge unless i buy each one a full PC setup. I am really looking forward to being able to share this game with my kids and have them experience the game with me for a change.

@Zizaran if you ever get to interview Jonathan or some other Dev please ask them if Cross play will hamper updates to the game (make them slower) due to console authentication bs..

Man ine thing that worries me about poe2 is the feature creep. Like couch coop, cross progression, mounts, all sick mechanics but every time they release news it's a big announcement of a huge mechanic. Hope they will be able to deliver

Congrats on the new kid. So blessed.

Gratz to baby girl! You must be so proud, wish I had a fam going like that.. I feel old and ornery. Wishing for better RNG, show me the way.

Agreed ... most of the time games there are PC only are much superior on PC than Cross Console/PC games. It always has to be simpler (usually less stable) when it was designed with Console in mind. I hope GGG can pull it off without harming PC at all.

10:57 the simplest example would be reworking the passive tree. Now I didn't really think about it in depth and it's generally a hard task, so I don't come with a final solution here (at least i don't consider it to be), but with a general idea: currently the passive tree really isn't all that deep. It has SOME depth, of course; most of it comes down to one thing, which is pathing efficiency: how to get the most value from the limited resource investment? Almost the same effect could be achieved with the current passives cut by - i would guess - 20-30%. Mostly the "travel nodes" (like cutting 1-2 attribute/inc dmg nodes from the 3 node chain), but also some of the less useful/less popular notable nodes. Now two things to note: im not saying about just deleting all that without further consideration or actions; afterwards there should probably come compensation for the deleted nodes (and potentially other adjustments). Meaning, that these [deleted] nodes should either be combined with other not-that-popular node choices, or be indeed completely deleted, but at the same time the other nodes useful for the same archetype should be buffed to compensate the loss of potential power. I would argue that these changes - if implemented thoughtfully and correctly - would simplify the game by reducing the information overload and lowering the entry level (lots of people are scared of the passive tree the first time they see it, while veterans know exactly - or at least more or less - where they want to path and the little nodes are usually just an afterthought - unless playing an attribute stacker or sth, but then it's very simple anyway - just pick all the attribute nodes) and... increase the depth, actually - because while we delete some nodes of low popularity, we compensate elsewhere and thus increase the value of nodes/paths the player wouldn't really consider otherwise as they would provide too little benefit. Now there are more impactful paths leading to player's goal instead of one-two good and a few poor ones.

You can use mouse and keyboard on a console too. I’m just glad I can play as an Xbox player. Got into Path last season and I got my close friends to try it as well. We’re all extremely excited for this and are happy as hell that it’s releasing simultaneously with pc.

Couch coop its a new way for Events League

The skill ceiling is definitely lower for console. And with the game being developed specifically for console AND pc means that that skill ceiling will be transferred to pc version as well.

POE2 has like 10 skill buttons, I was really hoping for less than that. and how are you supposed to move, aim and shoot all at the same time using different skills. I guess you have to bind your main skills to the 2 trigger buttons? Binding movement skills to front buttons? Gonna take time to get used to.

Ok now I’m excited. Game looks amazing, couch coop on one screen is great, but cross platform was the biggest thing I wanted for access to a better economy. As someone who only started playing POE 6 mths ago console economy is brutal

Pc player here... totally hyped for couch coop. And 100% worth the cross play

So happy with the cross progression. I share work room with my wife and when she is working I gotta go and turn on PS, and I really like playing POE on PS but.... So super super hyped.

They said in a interview I think on talkingtri that they aren’t making skills with console in mind he said if it’s to hard to use on console he suggested trying something else

Thanks for being honest and for speaking the truth.

I am a PC player who plays with controller. I’m pretty new although I have played all content of the game with 40/40 challenges (learn a lot from these) I find controller more relaxing as I just lean back in the chair and play but what really happened was that I started the campaign with controller and then tried to switch to keyboard and found it frustrating to learn to use the keyboard as I’m facing the hard content at the time so I never looked back. I’ve made builds around 4 skills so far and haven’t found controller to be a big disadvantage although it definitely exist. The biggest drawback of controller in my opinion is having a lot of skills to press. It’s a lot more tedious on controller, and I had to find ways to distill my skills down to 4 button presses to have a really comfortable play

Congratulations Ziz :)

I would love M/K support on console personally

Complexity and depth are not directly proportional. For example, Counter-Strike is a very simple (not complex) game with +10k hours of depth in improvement, same happens with simracing or even elden ring at a less degree.

Agos ago people said that GGG would have to take resources away when PoE1 was developed for console and that it would potentially impact the PC side of the game. I don't think this occurred at all. Now with PoE2 GGG are going to suddenly prioritise how skills work/target on console over PC? Not sure I see that happening either, but let's see... More people playing the game the better

Couch co-op looks super easy to rip. I agree with the controller take. The other thing they do with console is they keep legacy console stuff and then the game needs to continue to run on PS5 in 5-10 years when the hardware is garbage. They did this with FFXI. The game got locked into running on PS2

11:25 You guys have any idea, which class is that? Necromancer? Lich? Thanks.

Taking time off for a newborn? You casual gamer! xD GG though, congrats

First I hope they actually learned that they should include stuff IN the game and not need 234 apps to play the game. Its 10+ years later now...I pretty sure they can manage that this time around. Second... Yes you can say what you want of D4 but Cross play seams to work there so why not in the PoE2? And dont say its not the same game...Yes I know, Its just that implementation "Talked about in the video" is ok and ...Does not bother at least me personally. Plus... Always a plus be able to play with all friend you have despite platform. Too bad some people dont agree since this is the future we going for. So Thanks ggg for this! Gaming rigs is not something all people can afford. SO I am all for it for sure...Even though long time PC player.

well with poe2 on console you can aim with the stick and have your main skills on r1/r2 so it could be less likely for a skill to be watered down for console aiming. on the bright side 1 big trade community

I really hope the controller experience is up to par to the keyboard&mouse one. the fact that movement is point-to-clicke is the reason I'm not playing PoE anymore

In a correct timeline, GGG would launch PoE2 for PC and consoles but keep them apart. I'm sure Xbox and PS5 players would have a healthy economy, and skills and balance could be adjusted for controllers without sacrificing keyboard and mouse gameplay.

If the gameplay is shifting more towards the sort of dodge/parry mechanics enshrined by the souls games I could see controller having it's advantages. Fighting games and soulslikes are games where controller players have a huge advantage over mouse + keyboard players, if poe2 ends up heading in that direction mk players might actually be worse off than controller players.

Isn't there already skills in PoE2 that are "bad for console"? I mean, there's the comet spell and the ranger thingies that you stick on the ground (both of which you need to aim at a specific spot), for example.

12:52 aiming, is basically the only thing that is easier with a mouse. The button management will probably be better on controller. So I think if you use skills, that need to be aimed, you're gonna be better off using a mouse. Unless they build in some kind of auto aim. But if you use skills that don't require aim, then the controller will naturally feel better, because you can move and use skills and flasks easier.

I played a little POE on PS5 and it's difficult to aim your ancestral totems. Like you just can't pin point where to place them. No Bueno lol.

poe have the best clontroller laay out of all titels like it

wonder what projector or TV screen size you needed for 2 setup couch op op ~! interesting

I wonder if early access was delayed so much this year so they can release console/PC simultaneously.

Congrat on the birth of your baby. The video makes me hype about POE2. The prior was always distressing me.

I think Steel might be the dad.... she def looks a lot like him. beautiful baby! gratz dude!

With the console argument I don't disagree, but I feel like I gotta wait and see how it ends. PoE is already on console, and I don't feel ruined from that... But I've never tried the console version, and also don't know if they have console specific balancing. I honestly think it'd be AMAZING, if they DID make skill that cater to or side or the other... Just add it to the tooltips of the skill "Controller Recommended" / "Mouse & Keyboard Recommended"... Don't the consoles technically support mouse and keyboard now anyway? So make PoE2 support mouse and keyboard on console and just give everyone the option to play however they want, without having to mess up or be limited in skill designs.

The real solution for all of Zizaran's complaints is just to enable mouse & keyboard support on console, and make the console players aware that the more complex skills are easier to control if they plug in M&K

They did better than blizzard. You can coop on console but not PC which is lame. PoE2 letting you do both is a huge win! Looking forward to playing this never played Poe but it looks amazing!

Love cross play being able to play on my PC while my wife plays on the xbox has been SO MUCH fun getting her into aRPG's shes actually been having fun playing diablo 4. If we can do this in POE 2 will be great.

How will stash tabs work with cross progression?

Wonder how updates and hotfixes will work if there's crossplay. .

Still not clear about couch co op on PC, they better do it I can’t handle another Diablo scenario going on where for no reason they decided not to give pc couch co op even though they had the controller interface

I think you are wrong Ziz. For point and target skills on console they set distance mods, they will still design the same skills.

lets guess the point of the crossplay is the trade (with a new system) and not the co-op

I am so happy that the art direction for PoE2 is not pants-less bucket-head-diaper-wearing-tunic-wearers

End 2024 beta will be open for everyone?

Zizi: straitness of mind.

Inplementing console stuff for a pc game is gonna casuallify this game. Im enjoying poe 1 while it lasts, the Tencent effect is in full force. GG

I just want to be able to play on my ps5 with PC players. Really just my husband but you get the idea. But hey, connecting my controller to his pc works too.

as a PC elitist his points are so funny and all cooked up in his mind. "muh skills will be designed around console" lol unreal

I was upset with ziz constantly saying he hates the crossplay. But he cleared it up at the end. I really dont think it will be an issue. I really doybt this affects skill design

Looks great. Can't wait to play the beta at the end of the year :D Man poe players and streamers really like to confuse depth and complexity. Poe has a lot of unnessesary complexity by not explaining how anything works mechanics or stat wise. So to remove complexity and keep depth, you have just as many systems but actually have tooltips in game to explain how it all works.

@Zizaran would you say WASD movement while attacking is similar to V Rising's setup and feel?

I am really looking forward to getting blasted by every single boss during the campaign. I am not an uber gamer but I am sure this will put me in my place lol.

Now the delay makes sense. Same thing happened to valheim... trying to get some console cash.

100% agree on your take on console.

too dark and everything looks mushed together. need more contrast

Not a big fan of this, I struggle to see how having to maintain cross-play viability isnt gonna gimp the scope and design of the game. Also can only imagine how many more bugs are gonna crop up as a result. Hope I'm wrong though.

Couldn't an AI integrated system recommend new nodes on the skill tree for newbies based on the skills they're using?

My God this game looks beautiful!

Looks like my kids need to roll aurabot

it seems some ppl dont get that some ppl simply play console because they cant afford a pc! me included so crossplay is huge w just because of the economy

Controller is awesome for Diablo 4