Could No-Dig Be Easier? 

That is really interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience! I really like your focus on the establishment period, and the phases that it goes through, rather than being a once off event, and to plant the beds each year according to the stage of development. I had heard that tomatoes can be grown as multi-year plants, but peppers could do the same. Do you support them with structures, or just let them sprawl, and do they get pruned back once a season?

Great explanation.

@@REDGardens I think he meant that they plant tomatoes each year for 3 to 4 years. The southeast US still gets frosts in the winter.

Thomas Cook ......Chapeau!

@@REDGardens we usually do 2 methods for our tomato plants. For our annual production we use a mobile steel trellis to make a tomato wall 10ft. We keep them alive as long as possible by using the steel panel to espilar the growing vine until it gets to the top, then we cut the top. To extend its production (usually until early december) we will throw 4 mil clear plastic over it to keep off the frost and retain heat. This is for large slicing tomatoes that need more support. The second method is a string support like they do in greenhouses. We make a supporting arbor where we tie off twine the height of the arbor to the base of the tomato plants. As the plants grow larger we move the twine down the length of the arbor so that the fruit is within reasonable reach. This we do for small tomato like cherry, grape, or cluster. This method only works with single stem production. Our microclimate is usually very mild winters where we have tomato plants live about 2 years until production is impossible for how large the plants get. For peppers, we start out new plants in our greenhouse 4 weeks before winter solstice so that the sprouts can grow as the length of the days grow. They then get transplanted out after winter solstice into their permanent beds. We trim off all flowers to keep the plant producing branches and roots until we have steady 80°F heat during the day. In the fall, after they stop producing flowers we remove 1/3rd of the branch material to clean the main trunk and feed a rooting fertilizer to prepare for dormancy. If the temperature ever goes below 40°F we throw 4mil clear plastic cold tunnel over the plants with fluffy mulch around the rooting zone, usually pine needles. We keep the plastic over the bushes until temperatures reach a steady 60°F or above with no risk of frost. Peppers, and eggplants, are classified as tender wood perineals. So long as the roots and the bottom 6 inches of the plant are not killed off from frost they will grow back every year for about 4 years, increasing production every year. You can also use the trimmed off branches and propagate the varieties you desire most, I have gotten a 60% success rate just sticking them in the ground during the dormancy period without doing anything.

Thanks!

Never i seen

Q

Theres many studies on notill gardening/farming that have been done by universities

this video is none of these things..no dig is for lazy millenials whp csnt lift a pile of dirt

I dunno, I built a no dig bed last November and there were hundreds of red wigglers on the surface last night, red wiggler poo is really good for feeding plants and my leeks and onions are doing tremendously well.

Indeed!

Very true

@@wobblybobengland I was just speaking in general. All environments are different, of course. Either way, 7 months passing is still 'time'

Indeed it can be. It really depends on the quality of your native soil, and your climate. I'm in a temperate climate with rocky; heavy clay soil... that sat unattended for 3 years before we bought the house. I am currently sheet mulching the entire southside of my house with cardboard, leaf mulch, yard trimmings, ground up kitchen scraps, and 12"-18" of raw wood chips. I will have about 2 ft of raw organic material cooking out weed seeds, and harmful fungus as it breaks down this winter, and spring. Laying this no till foundation will bring life back into my soil while I am building more compost bins... to make more compost... so that I can achieve the level of balance in my soil that I can implement no dig gardening.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Very valuable to hear about what other people have experienced. It is interesting what you say about No-dig not being no-work, and one of the reasons for making this video the way that I did, as so many people are attracted to the no-dig method because of the belief that it will be a lot less work.

@@REDGardens My garden requires far less work than either of my neighbours - primarily weeding - beyond the obvious not having to dig. But there is the compost making, although it is possible to buy in compost in both small and bulk amounts, obviously in far cheaper unit costs. My garden also is far more productive than the neighbours, despite them spending more time doing drudge work like weeding. Admittedly, they do this very badly, thinking that pulling the top of a weed is sufficient. When it comes to harvesting, we canjust go and pluck what we need or fancy, without having to de weed first. Another area of work, here at least is the need to sow indoors first, then plant out later. But this should not a huge investment in time. On our adjacent plots, our mulched soil retains mositure much better. We only have to water certain crops under certain conditions. One neighbour doesn't water at all. They are surprised when their much larger allotment sized potato bed, for example, produces much less than our 1 kg of seed potatoes in an 5'x12' bed does. The time spent in the garden depends on how much time you want to be out there. That time being life enhancing rather than a drudge, priceless.

Nick Straw Just curious as to the issue of getting materials down to plant ASAP? Perhaps it’s the region where you live, or something I am missing. My first lasagne bed was lain down the fall before last, and capped with 3-4” of straw to winter over. It was my trial bed. I planted the following spring and harvested an incredible yield last summer. Now I have six beds already planted and thriving in zone 8a. I built cardboard based and soaked bases, then alternation layers of carbon and green. It was so simple here, and I am a bit lazy. Am interested in difficulties some seem to be expressing?

Nick Straw Nick. Here in our temperate clime, slugs and snails are also numerous. The solution I use is to cut a flap in the side of empty pint milk containers, or yoghurt or cottage cheese containers. I then add a couple of tablespoons of cooking oil, and a Tablespoon of Asian fish sauce, folding, or replacing the lids to prevent water intrusion. I then half bury them in the compost, with some straw loosely placed over the top. The slimy critters crawl in for the bait and the oil kills them.

hoeing before adding another layer is certainly something i'll do.

there are weeds you can't eliminate with digging, they are so deep that is just impossible to reach the deeper root.

@@zambrocca Yes, but those can usually be worn down be repetitive digging/hoeing over a few years. If you don't let them collect enough sunlight they will have spent all their reserves at some point. I'm talking about the weeds that can just be dug out like the couch grass he has (although this one might also need more than one digging).

there are diffrenet stages of soil. 1 is dirt (no soil freslhy tilled) 2 is the weed/pioneer stage 3 is the grass stage 4 bushes and shrubs eventually forest.. A healthy forest soil is the most producing (in biomass .If you where to dig and till forest soil you reduce it to stage one. An agricultural continuously tilled field will never get past stage 2 witch is a bacterially dominant, fungaly devoid soil. It will need fertilizer to keep it going. And plants that will do best there are the plants you dont want. Exactly the reason why people are looking for alternatives..

@@regiodeurse6513 can you cite source? I like what you are saying, but need more info

@@regiodeurse6513 "stage 2 witch is a bacterially dominant, fungaly devoid soil." no soil, no matter how long it's been tilled, is "fungaly devoid". Tilled soil may have less fungi in mass and diversity, but they still in it. "It will need fertilizer to keep it going." amount of fungi in soil does nothing to its fertility on itself. Unlike some nitrogen fixing bacteria, fungi can't fix nitrogen on their own. Only few species can form nitrogen fixing symbiotic relationships with diazotrophs , just like some plants do in their roots. Needless to say that other minerals like K or P have to be added to soil in some form, regardless of soils biodiversity. "And plants that will do best there are the plants you dont want. " thousands of years of farmers in different climates and geographic locations inventing tilling farming, prove you as wrong as it gets.

Thanks! I try hard to avoid slipping into favouring one method over the others.

Thank you so much. So good to know the pros n cons. I wànt to establish the raised bed but with no outside i am just building.up dry stuff then green grass. Will.addcow compost n soil mix. Top off with light wood chills..soil.mix and chils expensive. Just a trial.. but hope it works.

Year, couch grass can be the stuff of nightmares! I have used the plastic method a few times, and it can work, if you leave it on long enough.

_Borders_ (rewatch the video of Charles Dowding, it has no dig and / or weeds in the title - see my separate comment, sort for latest). And ONE good and deep dig at the beginning if you know you have a hardy weed (the soil life is not that great yet, it will recover from this "sin" I would not be too dogmatic about it, and you can boost it with compost teas to compensate from straying from the gospel ). Sufficiently ! high layers (I would also use newspaper and on top THREE layers of carton) and long smothering times - erring very much on the side of caution if you know you have some bad weed. Again well defined, and easy to defend BORDERS. Better starting one bed right than 2 beds not quite high enough to smother out the weeds. Plus giving it some time to come together and soil life starting to work - or starting with robust (nitrogen fixing) plants in the first season. Plus starting with seedlings (at least in the first 2 years). Direct sowing is tricky. ideally (this is an "unnatural" situation as you did it to produce a comparsion video, thanks for the effort) you establish your defense troops (wild birds, toads, certain beetles), that deal with slugs one year before you even start a no dig garden (or a larger permaculture system). You start an all-you-can-eat buffet and an ideal habitat for slugs. Make sure the habitat for their predators matches that. That you have the animals established that see slugs and their eggs as an all-you-can-eat-buffet. If you have a garden in an area with enough rain and fields and meadows of farms nearby - you might not be able to control them, they will invade by the thousands during night when dew makes travelling easier for them. Chickens do not eat grown slugs (and they can be really big and fat) and most ducks do not eat them either. And if they eat mostly slugs (not the eggs, but the grown animals) you cannot eat the ducks later. I do not know about eggs, but the meat does not taste good. You create the niche nature made slugs for when you establish a garden - new organic material (I learned that from a video from Jonas Gampe, in Germany. He thinks that slugs as _pioneers in new systems_ may be as important for breaking down material and creating compost as worms. The snails that used to be native only go after rotting material, do not eat as much young plants, and if they eat into a leaf of salad or a strawberry it is no big deal. They procreate not as rapidly, I let them live if I see them. The slugs from India unfortunately have a taste for seedlings and certain fruits and veggies. Snakes, toads and other beetles will feast on the slugs (and their eggs) if they can live and procreate in your garden. You created the all-slugs-you-can-eat buffet for them, but food is not enough, they also must find the shelter and their offspring must survive. Dry walls, insect hotels, marshy wet spots, little ponds that are deep enough for them to get over winter (that means also no problem with mosquitos, their larvae is fodder. Ideally some reeds = dragon flies, they are fierce predators. Wasps are controversial in gardens but they feed eggs of pests to their brood (like the moths that go after cabbage. One can also promote wasps that live in the soil - as opposed to the ones that live in hives. Jonas Gampe and helpers established a small "park / food forest" (one former field - it is open to the public at all times) according to permaculture principles. It is not close to where they live (but it was up for sale, people do not sell land easily in Germany, they do not have to. That field was given up for conventional agriculture after being degraded, so they took it, despite the distance. But they wanted a systems that functiions w/o much input and work anyway, so the distance was no deal breaker. On average they invest now 2 hours per week (after 10 years) It is a long and narrow strip with some slope surrounded by other fields so slugs used to come in, especially because they had ground cover and more moisture - and the neighbour fields didn't. In the first years the slugs hammered the plants they had sown into the mulched beds, but they had a relaxed hands off approach and trusted into the power of a diverse system once it had found its balance (so not like in a garden where harvests are expected soon). They grow a lot of food trees, not that many annuals, also to reduce maintainance, especially in the future once the property is established. They can't have chickens or ducks there (they are not there often) so wildlife had to deal with the slugs - and it did. 10 years and going strong, and the very suspicious, conventionally farming neighbours have relaxed as well. Wild boars, birds and likely predatory insects helped - only the first 3 years the slugs had a blast. they let cleared brush sit in big heaps, and decompose and go down by itself and the wild birds love the cover for breeding and they love the fodder they find in the hedgerows, the ponds etc. No more problem with slugs. That is no problem if the slugs (their eggs) are an all you can eat buffet for toads or other beetles (unlike birds they work during night and go under mulch). Another strategy in slug and weed infested gardens would be raised beds for a few years that are intensely used, and to prepare some areas on the ground that are planted with crops that the slugs do not like and that do not make a lot of work. Could be beans - and growing them on trellises. Patience is a virtue for gardeners ;)

Patience is a virtue for gardeners ;) - Parameters for your success and the ratio of input / output 1) quality & yield 2) passing of time where you let the system work for you (preparing a bed in fall and _waiting_ for the next spring, waiting for the wildlife that will contain the slugs for you). 3) effort & labor you put into it - in the beginning but also later maintainance 4) costs 5) being spontantanuous, proceeding fast w/o much former planning and preparation 6) being well informed right in the beginning versus winging it as you go If a gardener is good or lucky they have to _make concessions_ in only one or two of those points ;)

I think the video where Dowding stresses the importance of borders is: Start out with no dig, method with card board and compost (from 2020 or late 2019).

That makes sense, more cardboard would probably be more successful, and the time would help. I am usually not patient enough.

you can use the bed the first year if you cover with plastic and plant into tiny holes in it.

I absolutely agree with that. I think multi layers are vital under raised beds.

I've done that with strawberries.

@@richedge8667 Most companies (like Amazon) have switched over to soy-based inks for printing on their cardboard boxes, so that's not a problem. You tear off any glue-backed labels or plastic by hand before you use the cardboard. As long as you're using just the cardboard, it's fine.

On the second thought, it’s probably not easy to apply these methods on a larger scale... but with some modifications, probably doable.

Yeah, those rhizomatic root systems are amazing! They need to be covered for ages, and can just be easier to keep digging!

My pleasure! But it is only my own experience, I would not say it is how it would really be for other people.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I am not so fortunate with my proximity to supplies like that. Most of the farmers around here use a slurry pit, and most of the rest use herbicide laden hay which can cause real problems a few years later in a vegetable garden. I wish I lived in a place where it was much easier to get wood chip.

Hey, waar woon je ergens? :) Heb je het versnipperd hout gewoon bovenop gelegd of echt gemengd met de compost? Groetjes! Wij wonen in Landen (regio Tienen, Sint-Truiden) :)

I was thinking along the lines of cover crops where there is not enough compost, which cover crop would be best or would a mixture of varied types work better?

Very interesting and I'm certain this is true.

That makes sense, especially in his climate. I’ve found containers to be more effort in very hot and dry climates because the soil dries out so insanely fast. But the biggest advantage of containers is being able to relocate them if necessary. I had some watermelons growing in larger containers this year, and as the summer progressed into a drought they were getting scorched in full sun. But I was able to move them into partial afternoon shade and they immediately started coming back lush and green, with new blossoms and fruit setting even though they seemed DOA.

1 acre no dig, Wow! And that is a lot of wood chip. Do you add anything to it to speed up the decomposition and round out the fertility within it? the trammel idea is a good one.

@@REDGardens I used to use new chips in garden paths and after a couple years turn them over onto the beds. But then there can be larger chips which are a pain for seedlings. These days I let the chip pile sit for a year, sometimes more. It settles to half initial height and at least doubles in weight from rain/snow accumulation. Then I heave it by ten tine fork into the 3/8" screen trommel. (converted concretee mixer) The screened material goes as a top dressing in the veg gardens (3") and orchards. The big stuff kicked out at the end of the trommel goes as mulch around trees and bushes. Lot of work but the clay swamp is now two foot deep of brown gold. I do use some fertilizer, mostly for seed starting. and transplants. Otherwise the composted chips provide all the nutrition. I also have a large compost pile from the garden and kitchen waste, which also gets the trommel treatment and mixed with the fine chips for the veggie beds. The large pieces go back into the compost pile. Lot of work and I'm lucky in my chip providers. All the local guys know to dump in my back yard.

You are so welcome! I am really glad that you appreciate my approach with these videos.

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately the garden are in a publicly accessible site and the paths around the gardens need to be kept opener nd not sure i can remove the grass. I would be hesitant to add rougher material on the surface as it would become a potential habitat for slugs here in Ireland, which was a serious issue when I started this garden with a deep litter mulch.

I think it oddly be an issue for many gardens that bring in high volumes of compost, as it increases the likelihood of it being very woody and high in potassium, but not much else.

It does seem to take three years - or more!

I think I would agree with you. Tilling causes damage, but when done well it could significantly boost soil life.

@@REDGardens especially in soils like mine that didnt have much soil life before i came along.

Very cool to know that some non gardeners like my channel!

Do you plant the favas and buckwheat through the cardboard, or do the roots find their way through his barrier?

@@REDGardens I add a four inch layer of compost on top of the cardboard and plant the favas and buckwheat in that. By the time the roots reach down it's usually mushy enough that the roots find their way through

@@REDGardens or in the case of buckwheat and other covercrops, the roots are shallow and don't have to go through

Thank you too!

That sounds like a very reasonable approach to me. I don't believe that the answer to the issues with the "industrial way of gardening" is to not dig at all.

I think I agree with you about no-dig being something you transition to, after adequate soil digging and amending. But I suspect it really depends on the context.

@@REDGardens Ahhh, context! How could I forget to mention that!? > .< Anyway, if it's any help to see where I'm coming from, I'm currently living in a mediterranean-like climate in South Australia. I agree that full no-dig of layering cardboard and other materials from the get-go seems better suited to tropical climates.

Thanks!

Get a cheap Rotor Tiller. You will have it for a long time and less back breaking, faster turning soil and more time for gardening. Try it, you will thank me later !!!

I enjoy the much earlier spring here in Ireland! Where in Northern Ontario are you? I spent a lot of time when I was young near New Liskeard.

It’s just to the point here in the Finger Lakes/Western New York region ( we are just on the edge of the 2) that I can n confidentiality plant my brassicas and other cold weather veg. I’m just on the south side of the Ontario lake.

I know the New Liskeard area well, my wife is from there. We are presently in the Sault Ste Marie area

@@Tomhohenadel Nice part of the world. My mother grew up in New Liskeard, with the family farm closer to Hilliardton.

New Liskeard, Englehart area is good farm country. Nice flat clay rich soils. Did you study at the Agricultural college in Liskeard. Great fishing in lake Temiscaming.

That is interesting to hear that the compost and soil have not integrated in 4 years!

I have never worked with clay soils and I hear they are difficult. How long does it take for the mulch to begin softening the soil? Have you noticed that it continues to improve with time and more mulch, or is there a levelling off of beneficial effect after a year or two?

@@REDGardens I need more time to answer your questions. I recently moved here, and the land had been pretty much destroyed by the previous owner. Unfortunately, I can't even ask neighbors, because they all think alike... till the hell out of everything 3 times a year before planting wheat, corn, and some kind of bean for feeding cattle. However, I CAN tell you that even out of the short time I've been here, everyone is asking ME what fertilizer I'm using. They are shaken when I tell them "None, just rainwater and compost."

Thanks. I had a similar issue with one tree in my neighbour's allotment. Kept digging the roots out of the soil.

kGarden I agree Dowding is running a commercial enterprise with income from veg, salads, books and RU-vid so is not always a fair comparison to our home grown sites with their issues.

Yep. I think using herbicide is most often the cheapest and easiest way to start a garden. Digging is a hard work and some people don't have time or ability to do it. And thick layer of mulch can be hard to obtain without spending money in some places. But even if for some reason you want to dig a sprayed plot then it will be much easier cause all the roots will be dead so after some time you can turn the soil even with a garden fork.

That is interesting, and makes sense. It woudl be hard to get a fire going around here most seasons!

@@REDGardens Try to start a fire like in your biochar video, it might work

Absolutely!! All those compost can go on the natural ground and improve the soil quality.

Wonderful!

A curried porous hose makes a lot of sense.

Charles is great. He often visits a site near to me, before the lockdown of course.

@@REDGardens yeah he seems like a total legend. But don't worry your still my no1

Yeah, I think a full year is probably needed.

thanks for that. I had thought of how I could process the compost so that it was better quality, but I wanted to avoid the extra work or stages, partially because i am already busy enough, and I also wanted to stick with the 'no-dig is easier' philosophy as much as I could. A worm system would be a decent option, as would spraying it with compost teas.

I hadn't thought of the way biochar would soak up water.

Yeah 8" would definitely do the job!

The no-dig method I am trying is a very different approach, that does not rely on this types of plantings.

A tractor doesn't work well in this context.

Good idea. What do you cover it with? Landscape fabric? Plastic sheet?

@@REDGardens yes black and white 6ml some clear plastic also, and place house wrap on top to keep light down, the biggest gains are when you pull tarps back and only find a few weeds lay down compost and retarp , the weeds are considerably less than without , the moisture is much more consistent,

@@Superstephen1977 I am planning to try using tarp in the future.

I found it impossible to grow in straw, as it became a habitat for too many slugs, the deeper the straw, the more slugs. It seems to be method is not overly appropriate for this climate/ecosystem.

@@REDGardens Yes, our climate is not so wet. We don't have a slug problem, but I heard that a couple of ducks can help with that. Thank you for your reply 🙂

I think your idea of mixing compost from different sources is a good option.

That is something I would like to try, but because I am sharing this space with others, I need to keep the grass paths around the gardens. If I wanted a buffer zone, I would need to reduce the size of the growing space. I have tried using just cardboard on the paths within the garden, but the strong winds we have here blew them around and created a mess. I would definitely need to use wood chip or something.

Thanks. It does seem to take persistent work over a couple of seasons to deal with some of the issues. Interesting method of adding garden waste to the bed in the autumn. I do a type of sheet composting in my Simple Garden, but generally quite thick, and cover it with ground cover fabric for the season. But it would be interesting to try a no-dig version of it.

I like the sounds of using good quality compost overwinter with tarps and topping with a mulch of poor quality compost. i can imagine that would produce good results.

no

I tried that and the wind cause a really mess by blowing the cardboard all over the place, and messing up the compost!

@@REDGardens Yea I think you'd have to weigh it down somehow or stake it or something else.....which defeats the purpose of being easy I suppose. Unless it's easier than dealing with the border of the garden being invaded.

I have had trouble getting wood chip around here, but have recently purchased a chipper to at least get some of my own.

That could be an option to try, but I suspect Charles always uses better compost that what I have!

@@REDGardens he certainly does have access to good styff

Sounds interesting - lots of worms are definitely are good sign. Hope you get on top of the weeds, rather than the weeds winning!