Could Paulus have abandoned Stalingrad before encirclement? BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD E37

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Could Paulus have mounted a breakout operation before he was encircled at Stalingrad? With Operation Uranus in full swing, it's doubtful. Yet many historians and German generals have suggested that "nervous Paulus" could have disobeyed Hitler's stand fast order and pulled the 6th Army away from danger. But the sources suggest something different...
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📚 BIBLIOGRAPHY / SOURCES 📚
The specific Battlestorm Stalingrad bibliography docs.google.co...
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📽️ RELATED VIDEO LINKS 📽️
BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD S1/E1 - The 6th Army Strikes! • BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD...
For all the episodes in this series • BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD...
History Theory 101 • [Out of Date, see desc...
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ABOUT TIK 📝
History isn’t as boring as some people think, and my goal is to get people talking about it. I also want to dispel the myths and distortions that ruin our perception of the past by asking a simple question - “But is this really the case?”. I have a 2:1 Degree in History and a passion for early 20th Century conflicts (mainly WW2). I’m therefore approaching this like I would an academic essay. Lots of sources, quotes, references and so on. Only the truth will do.
This video is discussing events or concepts that are academic, educational and historical in nature. This video is for informational purposes and was created so we may better understand the past and learn from the mistakes others have made.

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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 948

@khosrowanushirvan5728 2 года назад

It speaks volumes about German's logistical and fuel situation in this stage of war when 700 motorized equipment is just sitting around in a depot far behind front lines, getting dust on, or snow in this case. The oil crisis of the Axis powers is indeed overlooked. Thanks, for enlightening us TIK!

@eze8970 2 года назад

I noticed that to, a good point. The Germans in the pocket mostly only had the mobility of walking.

@zeitgeistx5239 2 года назад

Hence why they couldn’t retreat. They were essentially demobilized and had relied on horses but with the horses went far into the rear the Soviets struck at the perfect time. German army in Stalingrad would’ve needed days just to regroup, reorganize, pull out of the city, and gather the little fuel they had to form a armored spearhead for the break through. The same time happened to the German Army to the SE of Berlin during the fall of Berlin. Gather what’s left of your heavy weaponry and the fuel to power them and use it to breakthrough Soviet lines and them abandon them once out of fuel and hopefully open a gap for your men to get through while your rear guard sacrifices themselves to stall the Soviets long enough before the breakdown is closed.

@tstocker6926 2 года назад

Energy and fuel is still the Achilles heel of the German economy

@henriklarssen1331 2 года назад

@@tstocker6926 *sad german noises*

@tstocker6926 2 года назад

@@henriklarssen1331 , If you look at Europe oil production , its not very much.

@jayjayson9613 2 года назад

It's amazing how long the Battle of Stalingrad really took and all the turning points and decisions that led to its outcome. Thank you very much for your efforts in providing an accurate account of the events TIK

@dusk6159 2 года назад

Truly THE breath of fresh air needed in a huge and valuable topic like this in WW2.

@scottnieradka6836 2 года назад

I never understood what many historians wanted Paulus to do, If he abandoned his positions and broke out on foot even on the 20th, they would abandon defensive positions and free up the other soviet armies in the north and east. If they were delayed in escaping, as they would as the soviet calvary and motorized units racing to kalach had better mobility, they would have been slaughtered on the steppe. Looking at a map, its absurd, casualties would have been atrocious, morales would be low if abandoning stalingrad, it would be a rout. The blame should be that all reserves had been committed to stalingrad and army group b didnt have sufficient reserves at kalach to do much to stop the soviet advance. Paulus sent what scraps he had west.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Yes, and as someone else has pointed out, withdrawing in the middle of a blizzard wouldn't be easy. Paulus would have had a difficult time as it was if he'd been fighting in the summer. Given the immobility of his army and the fact he only really understood the danger of encirclement at mid-day on the 21st, it really doesn't make sense to order a withdraw.

@pax6833 2 года назад

Realistically Stalingrad would have had to have been won in the beginning of the Base Blue offensive. Had the Germans driven straight to Kalach, they would've had much better odds of taking it. After scattering the Soviet front line, they could have made for their ground objectives instead of going for encirclements of troops that didn't even exist.

@davidburroughs2244 2 года назад

@@pax6833 I agree. Except for one thing. Those hundreds of thousands of "missing" Russian troops had to be somewhere and only a fool would ignore them and hope they had simply kept on running until they got to the Urals.

@pax6833 2 года назад

@@davidburroughs2244 The russians had withdrawn and instead of pursuing them, Hitler told his commanders to "encircle" Rostov thinking they would capture the Soviet Army. It wasted a TON of time and caused a massive logistics disaster that took a week to undo where they weren't moving toward Stalingrad while the Soviets set up new defenses.

@davidburroughs2244 2 года назад

@@pax6833 I am not sure that even if Stalingrad had taken to the Germans the southern war would have been over. I am sure the Russians would have kept on coming until they had retaken Stalingrad and fully retaken the oil fields further south. I can see few ways Germany could win this one. The German challenges and goals there was a bit of a task too far for their overall unimportant previous victories to offset.

@Comradez 2 года назад

People forget that the 6th Army had responsibilities to the entire Army Group, not just to its own survival. What if Paulus had ordered a breakout on November 21st, and in the disorder, rush, and having to leave behind almost all vehicles and heavy weapons (because of lack of fuel reserves/horses/time to prepare/etc.), what if the 6th Army had just completely disintegrated, and instead of tieing up 4+ Soviet armies until Feb. 3rd, had just left the door completely open for the Soviets to take Rostov in a matter of days, shutting the door on the entire Caucasus force before Manstein could react and precipitating an even bigger crisis? Paulus's ultimate decision to stand ground might have been the only reason the Soviets ultimately had to demote the planned Operation Saturn to Operation Little Saturn, and the only reason the Caucasus forces were able to mostly withdraw through the Rostov gate at all.

@Comradez 2 года назад

I should also add: we may be starting to see in the current Ukraine conflict the extent to which even larger numbers of troops can be relatively ineffective (especially at going on the offensive/conducting breakouts) when they lack heavy weapons. Ukraine is, in theory, supposed to have several times the number of troops mobilized than Russia by now, and yet Ukraine's counter-offensives have been petering out after capturing a village or two. That may still change, but as things stand now, Paulus's decision to stand ground where at least they could still use what vehicles and heavy weapons they had is looking smarter and smarter judging from Ukraine's experiences in the ongoing war.

@ShamanKish 2 года назад

@@Comradez Ukrainian strategy is a joke. They are literally creating an army of Orcs conceived by "Saruman", based on anti Russian sentiment and burning Russians books. That is not a military strategy. That is childish. Worse - it is delusional.

@Comradez 2 года назад

@@ShamanKish I would agree that there is certainly delusional hubris on the part of the Ukrainian war aims and strategy. Their most advantageous time for a negotiated ceasefire was in early April just after the Russian strategic withdrawal out of the Kiev/Sumy theaters. Ukraine might have been able to limit their territorial concessions to just Crimea and Donbass and their diplomatic concessions to ruling out NATO (but leaving in possibility of EU membership) at that point. But now, I suspect that Russia is so fed up with Ukraine and so distrusting of it that Russia will never give up the portions of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, and Kharkiv oblasts that they've acquired, and that Ukraine expelling Russia from those regions (or the Donbass) by force are looking increasingly remote.

@ShamanKish 2 года назад

@@Comradez Because Ukrainian masters are ideologically defined and determined, there is no possibility to negotiate with them. The idea which controls them will simply not allow it. By the way, they keep repeating from the very beginning: No diplomacy! 😎 And (to illustrate) judging by what Bojo is proposing right now , it's clear that land war with Russia is what concerns western politicians rather than economic situation at their home. They just don't care about economy. That is part of their strategy! They are completely delusional.

@unlearningcommunism4742 2 года назад

Imagine panicking retreat across hundreds of kilometers and dozens of rivers. It would be Napoleon 2.0

@rozkaz661 2 года назад

The analisys of difrent conflicting sources and making out some sort of coherent theory out if it is absolutely amasing academic tier work. This is great work TIK. Im sure people could get phds out of the content you put out for us here

@joshualoganhoi4 2 года назад

I hope you're feeling better TIK!

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Mostly, thank you. I was still a bit off when recording the video and tried to compensate

@KaraBoga69 2 года назад

Ex fascist?

@joshualoganhoi4 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight I was thinking that you might be. You sound good to me.

@joshualoganhoi4 2 года назад

@@KaraBoga69 That's me!

@morewi 2 года назад

I'll be honest here the Romanians did a lot better than I originally thought. I was always under the impression that they just folded when a day of the attack.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

I think part of the problem is that the campaign is so long that historians have been compelled to whiz through the entire thing in one book, which means that several days get condensed into a couple of sentences at best. The result is "the Romanian lines collapsed", which is technically true, but in reality it was more complicated than that.

@morewi 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight that makes sense. Especially as most of my knowledge on the eastern front came from a series of books that time magazine published in the 70s.

@Talmurid 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight That's an interesting thought- a kind of temporal relativism. Another example of this is saying the Roman Empire was weak since it succumbed to barbarian invaders, when in reality this glosses over the complicated and complex wars and relations between the Romans and the Germanics... I wonder how many other events are unduly simplified due to being so far removed from them due to time.

@KaraBoga69 2 года назад

@@Talmurid Fear of the parthians

@williamtell5365 2 года назад

The Roma Ian's did not lack ability. They were badly underarmed and undersupplied. Any German army in that situation would have failed.

@jtfrank2006 2 года назад

The weather played a huge factor here too.. There was a massive white out blizzard in the middle of all of this then followed by days of super dense fog.. these guys couldn’t see more than 20 feet in front of them for the most part

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Yes! You can imagine the panic and chaos if Paulus gave the order to withdraw

@rring44 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight I am thinking about the German movie Stalingrad at the end of it where the soldiers just walk out into the blizzard and freeze to death.

@Comradez 2 года назад

@@rring44 Yes, the treeless steppe in a winter blizzard is kind of the worst possible environment in which to be doing a breakout on foot without vehicles or heavy weapons. It would be suicidal. At least, staying in the Stalingrad pocket, they had the rubble of the city as "shelter" and could continue distracting several Soviet armies for another several months, even if their own survival was hopeless.

@jtfrank2006 2 года назад

I read the book till the last breath or until your last breath… can’t quite remember but it was a first hand account of a soldier who was eventually transferred to the Stalingrad staging area when this all went down… and the panic… then days later getting smashed by the Russian army when it regrouped..

@cccpredarmy 2 года назад

And yet the "totally immune to winter weather conditions" soviets managed to perform an ARMY-encirclement operation... Trying to portray german warmachine as completely incompetent and incapable again?

@winterkingbeats4183 2 года назад

I've wanted to comment this for the longest but I always get sidetracked by the video. Thank you for adding the source material right on screen and thank you for the extra editing required to do that. It's such a great help. Excellent video as always.

@ricardokowalski1579 2 года назад

There is a saying: "Victory has many fathers, but defeat doesn't even have a mother" That is why everything is "mad hitler's " fault

@karljohan3989 2 года назад

What an episode ! I'm wondering how Chuikov felt at this moment. The madlad held the thin red line until Operation Uranus. Must have felt great to finally see a glimpse of the light at the end of the tunnel.

@Becks670 2 года назад

this!

@neilwilson5785 2 года назад

Chuikov, if he had had all the facts, would still be apprehensive, but worried that this new hope might just lead to another month of hell and death.He did not know what collossal moves were going on.

@Pincer88 2 года назад

Thinking back of all the videos on this specific topic (Stalingrad) it was only recently that I realized what a work of Herculeanian proportions this entire series must be, considering the amount of detail, the many different viewpoints, the excellent analysis and careful avoidance of too convenient judgement by other historians or witnesses of the time. Not to mention the work that must have gone into making the maps with outlines of units, commanders and shifting frontlines. To me this is an above and beyond Phd-thesis effort. And then we even haven't talked about all other, related videos. Admirable doesn't begin to cover my sincere appreciation.

@sirridesalot6652 2 года назад

I firmly believe that with this series TIK could have earned a doctorate of history at any prestigious university.

@Trojanponey 2 года назад

Day instantly improved with new Stalingrad video! Thanks TIK!

@thomasvandevelde8157 2 года назад

YES! Made my day again here TIK! And this *with* decent subtitles... Keep up the good work mate!

@NikhilSingh-007 2 года назад

History student - Mr Stahel, when you you think the Germans lost, at what point? Le Stahel - 3:16AM, 22nd June 1941. Student- B-but.. Mr Stahel they just started the invasion barely a minute ago?? David Stahel- Exactly ;)

@ricardokowalski1579 2 года назад

This. 👍

@Pangora2 2 года назад

Its the enlightened view. Also I like to play with the scenario that France folding so easily was an accident. Germany didn't have the resources to occupy it anyways, and winning gave them the hubris to bog down in the Balkans and then invade Russia. The more one study's the war, the more unwinnable it becomes.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 2 года назад

@@Pangora2 If anything the fall of France in 1940 was a coming together of almost everything working in favor of the attacker and everything working against the defender. It was the perfect storm at the right exact moment. Like 9-11 was. You try bringing down to skyscrapers by flying 2 aircraft into them. Chances are you will probably never get to replicate that feat again if you could. Sometimes luck favors one side and misfortune the other. The mistake is in not recognizing the extraordinary circumstances of everything going right and expecting it to happen again.

@z000ey 2 года назад

They actually lost the war already on September 1st 1939.

@dirremoire 2 года назад

Your skill at storytelling is on par with your brilliance as a researcher. Thank you for continuing this extraordinary series.

@muskett4108 2 года назад

Fascinating piece of history that needed some real scrutiny. A lot of us always wanted to know what did go on. TIK delivers again the most compelling argument to date. Paulus had few options. Forming an all round defence pocket must have been the priority, or get over run from the rear. Withdrawal would have been an immediate rout and certain destruction of the 6th Army, for there was no fuel, no ammunition, no vehicles, no horses, and no plan. Plus the distance to friendly territory was long and an unknown quantity. All in a blizzard. All credit to the Soviets for pulling their plan off and on such a scale.

@AnthonyEvelyn 2 года назад

Im not sure Paulus could have extricated 6th Army in time from Stalingrad. Paulus was an easy scapegoat, Hitler would have had his head if he broke ranks with OKH and succeeded in breaking out. The Soviets had a field day capturing Luftwaffe airfields juicy with supplies. However, I was under the impression that the Romanians lines collapsed quickly and fled in abject disarray with the Soviets rampaging to link up with the southern flanking force. Thanks TIK for your hitherto magnificent series.

@Blazo_Djurovic 2 года назад

Even if he had broken rank with OKH he would likely need to abandon most of their equipment and supplies in the pocket, and pretty much walk out with just days worth of rations in solders bags. So they would be lakcing shelter, and food and heavy equipment in the middle of a major Soviet offensive. And nearest unit they could retreat to... is Army group A or something.

@gabrieletagliaventi5516 2 года назад

we have evidence that a breakout would have succeeded. Evidence comes from what happened in January 1943; the Italian Alpini were trapped and made it to the Axis lines, loosing 50% of the men, but they made it. In far more horrible weather conditions and without any single one panzer

@Blazo_Djurovic 2 года назад

@@gabrieletagliaventi5516 Were there Axis units on the other side to accept them and did they have to leave heavy equipment. Also, Alpini I would imagine would be much better prepared to venture into blizzard than normal Axis solders.

@andreibocse4271 2 года назад

Paulus could have escaped the encriclement if he had done his daily prayer in front of his picture with Lord Manstein. Amateur mistake if you ask me. Leaving the joke aside, I am 15 mins into the video and it is great!

@josephjanisch5396 2 года назад

All hail to the Manstein!

@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 2 года назад

I bet if Manstein was in charge of 6th army, he wouldn't even have been encircled. He could have coated his Panzers in Mansteininium, unbreakable steel armor.

@andreibocse4271 2 года назад

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 I guess we will never know. It is one of the biggest what-ifs of the war, up there with Steiner's counterattack at Berlin.

@NikhilSingh-007 2 года назад

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 This.

@GeneraalAmsel 2 года назад

@@fieldmarshalbaltimore1329 if Manstein was in command. He would have withdrawn to Berlin. Counter attacks and struck right the Urals in 1 week with just one panzer and won the war.

@Jcod_ 2 года назад

If my understanding is right, the flanks fought amazingly given the circumstances. They lacked men, mobility, and equipment but still put up resistance for as long as they did.

@dennisweidner288 2 года назад

bangythebrav I am not sure the flanks "fought amazingly " but what you say in absolutektlky true. They were unmotorized and lacked heavy equipment, both tanks, and artillery. The untold story of Stalingrad is WHY the German allies were so poorly equipped.

@razvananghel7492 2 года назад

Romanian armies at Stalingrad, both of them, were moved there after the previous Crimeea campaign where they fought really hard and took Sevastopol, first unit to reach the harbor was a Romanian unit btw. And it was a Romanian Mountain Corps unit which took the crucial Sugar Loaf position at Sevastopol and also it was the Romanians which took Balaklava with 10 000 russian prisoners. The Stalingrad front was considered a quiet one on the flanks considering the complete routing of the soviet armies prior of the germans reaching the city. Romanian forces were moved there to rest and re-build. Remember that it was also the middle of the winter and no military operations were expected outside the skirmishes in Stalingrad. So nobody bothered in reinforcing the Romanians or the Italians guarding the flanks. They were supposed to be rebuild in the spring, March-April for the summer offensive and in the meantime just rest and resist the winter best they could. Romanians fought as they always did, bravely. when the attack begun. They repulsed the initial attack and they only started getting into trouble when the russians send in the heavy armor against which Romanians had no counter. And they still resisted bravely. Three generals were killed leading bayonet charges. Romania is the forgotten ally and was the most important german ally of the entire war BY FAR except Japan. And Japan only because it kept the americans from fully committing to the european theatre. Romania just ended on the wrong side of history at the end of the war so they were forgotten and overlooked. Germans and russians did it on purpose. Minimizing Romanian contribution to the war to make themselves look good and painting Romanians as some just some losers cannon fodder that run at the first shot. Nothing can be further from the truth Fully recommend this answer on Quora about Romanians in WW2: www.quora.com/How-well-did-the-Romanian-Army-perform-during-WW2

@dennisweidner288 2 года назад

Razvan Anghel You make an importnt point. And I suspect the same is true for the Hungarians and Italians, Too often the Axus allies are dismissed as incompetent and lacking in fighting spirit. Simply ignored is that the Germans did not provide then heavy weapons. Almost never asked is WHY? Why were the axis allies and much of the Ostheer so poorly equipped? After all the Germans had a much larger heavy industry capacity than the Soviets. There is endless discussion of tactics and not a word about economic performance. The simple fact is that the German economic performance given their industrial capacity was miserable and much of their industrial output was diverted to fighting the War in the West. The men with east, but industrial output went West--a recipe for disaster, In addition, the Soviet economic performance was startling.

@Tekisasubakani 2 года назад

10:07 BobRosskii Must be some happy little trees there, eh? I really appreciate you marking units that you are referring to with a solid colored backer card!

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Yeah, the place is called "Bobrovskii", but I thought I could improve it slightly 😂

@Tekisasubakani 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight I'm sure the Soviets would have appreciated some calmness and positivity around this time.

@Perkelenaattori 2 года назад

It's not very surprising to see Von Manstein advocating for an early breakout in his memoirs considering that the man wanted to retreat all the way to Berlin just a little while later.

@ShamanKish 2 года назад

He was realistic.

@dusk6159 2 года назад

@@ShamanKish Realistic had Manstein been an american/soviet general. Retreating to Berlin and giving up every conquest then wouldve been a good realistic outcome for his side.

@hermocrasbreadlord9557 2 года назад

Past week I've been watching Battlestorm from Episode 1 and now I'm here to the most recent episode. I'm so glad I've took the time to watch this, I've never been so taken by a documentary series. Truly TIK, you do a marvelous job and I look forward to seeing the climatic end.

@raylast3873 2 года назад

How lucky those Soviet POWs were that just happened to be in the path of the advancing Red Army Tank Corps with no one bothering to move them. Soviet POWs in German hands did not have a great chance of surviving, and the ones that ended up in Stalingrad had none.

@gromosawsmiay3000 2 года назад

for your information chance not to be punish liberated soviet POW was very low, they were treated as traitors.

@KOVROL 2 года назад

@@gromosawsmiay3000 if not, then they died within a few days in a penal batallion.

@edwardjj4224 2 года назад

Stalin and his NKWD waisted everybody's Actually more than Germans did in combat

@davidhauge5706 2 года назад

Some of your have been listening to too much nazi cold war propaganda look up the statistics.

@philliprandle9075 2 года назад

Just made my week can't wait for the next one!!!

@labrat7420 2 года назад

This is such a fantastic series! Absolutely thrilled when a new episode is released. Appreciate the time and effort that goes into producing these, thank you TIK.

@heinekelland9223 2 года назад

Maybe a withdraw from the Kotluban area to shorten the lines would have been a good idea? As it would have freed some german tank and motorized divisions to be used in the counter attacks against the soviet pincers. and to keep the corridor open at Kalach. Also maybe a withdraw of the 11th corps to the south, but as you said they would have lost most of their heavy weapons due to a lack of fuel and they'd have to march on foot. Now i understand the kotluban was a good defensive position and the soviets had lost many men trying to take it, but was it worth it to keep those motorized and tank divisions occupied there for months? They could have set up an operational reserve so when operation uranus struck they'd have something to fill the gaps with. Other than that, thanks a lot for the video!

@andrewblake2254 2 года назад

Whichever way you arrange the divisions they were just stretched to thin and without adequate logistics.

@teun558 2 года назад

If the Kotlaban area had not been held the city would have been reinforced. Making all the attacks on the city impossible. Once Uranus started it was to late any of this.

@TukozAki 2 года назад

OMG these maps, and commentary / questions (obviously from @TIK but also by other dudes above)!! What *happened* between November 19th and 22th is finally starting to become comprehensible to me

@701duran 2 года назад

when this series is said and done it's going to be really unrivaled among documentaries about World War 2 and is as epic as the battle of Stalingrad was

@glitch7977 2 года назад

You know this series really makes me consider the sheer organisational challenge that warfare is - its hard to even conceive of the many decisions and actions that must be made on an hour by hour basis but I think TIK does a good job of detailing it. I wonder what it is like in the Russo-Ukraine war, especially with the logistical nightmare that Russia must be facing.

@jb-xc4oh 2 года назад

What nightmare......Russia is basically fighting on its own border.

@russellwright5141 2 года назад

This is the best video of the battle storm Stalingrad series so far and addresses the key myth that the sixth army could have escaped. Paulus ending up in the bag makes him an easy scapegoat. Til you need to write a book looking at Hitler's major military interventions and examining how many of them were not wrong. Final point. I have no doubt had Paulus tried to break out his army would have been slaughtered and historians would now be writing he should.have built a defensive position and waited for Mastering; who no doubt would be writing the same untruth.

@michaelkovacic2608 2 года назад

Thanks for your incredible work!

@IrishTechnicalThinker 2 года назад

This series has been nothing short of spectacular. Just like a ship sinking, there becomes a point where the ship is lost even though she may still be floating, the German army reminds me of the Titanic. Water entering below the water line and at first seems controllable but soon abandon ship is called nonetheless. Don't know what's worse, being on a sinking ship or stuck in Stalingrad. Keep up the excellent work brother.

@Calbeck 2 года назад

Seems like the only chance the Germans ever really had was to have given proper anti-tank weaponry to the Romanians in the first place, so that they could have at the least bought more time in the north.

@juliantheapostate8295 2 года назад

Indeed, but it would have meant depriving their own forces. Germany just didn't have a big enough arms industry and efficient enough logistics to fight the war which transpired

@robertleache3450 2 года назад

Could the Romanian lines have been "beefed-up" ? The answer is yes, but the process had to start no later than August 1st, 1942. What are some of the things that could have been done ? How about re-equiping the Romanian armored forces with captured Char-B French Tanks upgraded with German Optics, armament and radios ? In addition, could knocked-out T-34 Tanks, (some of them) have been repaired to augment the French Char B Tanks ? Could the Demansk salient have been abandoned in July 1942 ? This might have allowed 10-12 German Divisions to bolster the long Don River Flank. With the abandonment of the Demansk salient- could the Ju-52 transport planes formerly supplying the Demansk salient; could those planes have been modified to carry timber to the Romanian lines to help fortify their positions ? If so, where would the timber originate ? In saw mills set up behind the forested areas of Army Group Center. Could the 11th German Army, instead of being sent to Leningrad, stayed in the South and. Corseted the Hungarian sector ? Could 20 divisions on the Channel Coast in France have begun a transferr deployment starting in September 1942 & gradually transferred to the East; when the threat of a cross-channel invasion receded ? Could more captured French anti-tank guns and artillery have been provided ? These suggestions required foresight, planning and wise time-planning. Where were you General Maximilian Weichs?

@sirridesalot6652 2 года назад

@@robertleache3450 The German's logistics didn't have enough fuel for what the Eastern Front already required. Adding more fuel hungry vehicles would only have made a terrible situation even worse.

@cccpredarmy 2 года назад

@@robertleache3450 I like how captured equipment all of a sudden can drive freely and shoot as many times as one can dream of... Reality is not a strategic game where you build a unit and it then moves and shoots wherever you click with your mouse button. Do you expect Axis forces building repair workshops en masse for french and soviet equipment? Which factories should produce the ammo for those? French factories? Now look at the European map and tell me how lon it ould take for ammo to catch up to tanks which are 3000km away from it? There is a reason why, when an army marches forward the train, vehicle and horse caravans are moving on the roads nonstop!

@robertleache3450 2 года назад

@@cccpredarmy I did not say "all of a sudden." I emphasized wise time management, if you read my comments closely. Before you generalize, what may I ask, would you have done to strengthen the Axis Lines in the time frame from July-August 1942 ? At least my ideas offered some positive solutions at what might have helped. But since you and I will not agree, let others on this forum chime in with their opinions on what might have been done . I just "love" naysayers who can not think out of the box-as it were-and not offer creative, positive remedies that MIGHT have prevented the disaster for the Axis satellite armies on the Don River Front. Let others voice their opinions and hopefully in a more respectful way than thou.

@Alopex1 2 года назад

I keep repeating myself, but still: excellent episode as always. Thanks for the meticulous analysis of the sources. And thanks for debunking the myths peddled by the Nazi bastards like Manstein after the war, it can't be done enough and you're doing a great job :) Keep up the great work!

@nemiw4429 2 года назад

Theres nothing wrong repeating how good TIK does his job.

@douglascrystal3837 2 года назад

I just watched the last 37 episodes in the last 3 days straight, what a treat, you sir are awesome, hail to thee

@MadeleineTakam 2 года назад

So the overall analysis of Soviet / Russian performance is, many weeks of Stalemate and grinding attrition followed by pedal to the metal. Hey just like what is going to happen in Ukraine.

@rudolfbehm2194 2 года назад

wow I cant wait for the next episode, you are doing a tremendous and HUGE job here TIK thanks for your videos!

@raylast3873 2 года назад

11:27 so actually when you said earlier the Soviet victory might be stopped if they were prevented from reaching Kalach (?) that is only true in an theoretical scenario where the Soviets hadn‘t already broken through in the South. There was absolutely no way they could reasonably stop both pincers. Possibly even with those reinforcements that Paulus had needed the whole time.

@danielevans8728 9 месяцев назад

Everyone seems competent and generally good at their job when the army was advancing victoriously. Then it devolves into blame deflection and ass covering. Good work sir.

@gabrieletagliaventi5516 2 года назад

the great point of such a brilliant video is to show, for the first time, how Germans failed by not having a strong mobile forse behind the Romenian lines. Despite the lack in anti-tank of the Romenian divisions, 2-3 motorized/panzer divisions might have stopped the Soviet advance and possibly destroy them. The irony is that those motorized/panzer divisions existed in that area before OKH sent them sightseeing in France (Leibstandarte) besides von Manstein XI Army transferred to Leningrad when it could have played a decisive role in Fall Blau...

@andrewblake2254 2 года назад

And if those divisions were not in France the Allies would have invaded.

@gabrieletagliaventi5516 2 года назад

@@andrewblake2254 it was the panic after the Dieppe raid

@kronniichiwa9909 2 года назад

At least most of the Romanians fought with courage, despite being undersupplied. Besides, the soviets are the ones who took chunks of Romania before ww2: Basarabia & Bucovina.

@konstantinbush295 2 года назад

- Could Paulus have abandoned Stalingrad before encirclement? - Yes, but he has not enough money to pay for the gas

@linnharamis1496 2 года назад

I’d like to compliment you on your graphics for this series. They have been wonderful- they appear to be made by somebody with a graphics team! (My guess yes you did nearly all the work yourself or perhaps a little help from others.) Please keep up the good work.👍👍👍

@klown463 2 года назад

Good argument, but I don’t think your argument and the “Soviets bad” argument are mutually exclusive. Yes, the Germans tried to deflect blame from themselves and their performance. Yet the Soviets are still pretty low quality at this point, taking heavy casualties against a 3rd rate power like Romania. It’s probably more accurate to say that the Soviets beat Romania, which caused the Germans to implode, rather than saying that the Soviets outgunned/planned the Germans. Or if they did outgun the Germans, indeed it was because of their superior numbers, which of course is congruous with the traditional narrative.

@Dth-str 2 года назад

Yeah

@caryblack5985 2 года назад

They outproduced the Germans in tanks, aircraft and artillery in every year from 1942 on. They put together a large force of troops that the Germans did not think they could. They executed a plan of encirclement when the Germans believed that since they had defeated every attack on the northern line that it would necessarily fail.

@lif3andthings763 2 года назад

The Germans completely underestimated the Soviets. Which is why they thought it was bright idea to put Romanians stretch thin with little anti tank weapons.

@j.granger1120 2 года назад

Lewis, thanks for all you do for us. This was a lot to unpack, you made it understandable.

@cwolf8841 7 месяцев назад

You are absolutely correct. Without a crystal ball you can’t immediately move over 100,000 men, weapons, vehicles, supplies, etc. while in contact with Enemy forces. That is the danger of trying to do things from a map. You can’t see terrain and can’t see the manpower and time to basically move an entire ‘city’ overnight. There wouldn’t even be enough prime movers to transport all the existing stores of ammo and fuel. Keeping in mind German logistics had been failing for years. Poor food, limited winter clothing, rampant disease, etc.

@neil03152 2 года назад

Truly I am in awe Tik of what you have achieved to date. You now can stand with pride at the Table with the other experts on Stalingrad, and then more than stand your corner as the topic is discussed.

@morningstar9233 2 года назад

It's funny watching this series although i already know broadly what happened, prior to these Uranus episodes i was keen to see what Paulus would do to finally capture Stalingrad. So Uranus comes as rather a rude interruption to the narrative thus far (certainly for the 6th Army too, no doubt). A testament to Tik's ability to make this history breath again as i see it through new eyes and my prior (limited) knowledge takes a back seat. Always thought Paulus was working logically and methodically under the circumstances in which his forces were deployed. Not weak or indecisive but soberly assessing and very nearly achieving his enormous task with ever diminishing resources against an ever strengthening enemy. I do not wish or believe that he could have won, but i think Paulus is unfairly criticised while his incredible achievement to get as far as he did is overlooked. Thank you Tik.

@massafelipe8063 2 года назад

Hard day at work, and than this..gift from the sky.

@titanscerw 2 года назад

Great job, the official narrative always sounded very hollow, now it is clear to me why.

@vladimirrodionov5391 Год назад

Incredibly insightful and nuanced.

@jomojedacab9299 2 года назад

The Germans has no HORSES, so no chance to flee.

@nemiw4429 2 года назад

Rather take the chancen and try by foot. Leave everything behind, even your rifle. When the soviets catch up its not gona help you anyway. Cut out the horse fat. 1kg / 2.2 pounds = 7000 calories. Take 3kg with you and your good for 15-20 days which is more then enough to reach the lines. With a white uniform you can easily hide in the snow. Just let yourself fall head first. If your not warm enough cut out the horse skin and put it between your clothes and on your shoes and as gloves.

@sorsocksfake 2 года назад

Well put. One thing misses though: the idea that Paulus could not have acted before the 19th is faulty. It's not like this was half a Red batallion that they missed. These kinds of forces should be spotted and their purpose divined. It took weeks to prepare, and the Soviet offensive didn't go as fast as planned. All in all, this leaves a simple question. Did intel fail catastrophically? Or did Paulus/Von Weichs receive the intel and fail to act on it sufficiently? By all means, they likely didn't at this point have the strength to stop it. But they could've blunted it and bought time. Whether for a counter-offensive, a breakout, or (partial) withdrawal. Either way, praise belongs to Chuikov and his men for stopping Paulus as long as he did, preventing a consolidation of the Axis line, and bleeding the Germans near-death before Ouranos even began.

@peterthomson4632 2 года назад

German Army intelligence (Fremde Heer Ost, under Gehlen) badly underestimated Soviet mobilisation capacity and production in 41 and 42, and the generals did not realise how much the Red Army had improved. Their intelligence told them that the Red Army simply did not have the manpower or the organisational capacity to mount several major offensives at the same time - still less a coordinated encirclement over a depth of 200 kms. They had met Operation Mar and defeated it only a few months prior. Gehlen went on to over-estimate Soviet capacity and misread their intentions in 44, and then sell his 'expertise' to the US after the war.

@davedoe6445 2 года назад

TIK, One contributing factor I haven't heard much about is the failure of German intelligence to detect the scale and intent of Uranus before it was launched. The allies had put significant effort into photoreconnaissance missions over Germany - did the Germans not have regular aerial reconnaissance over the Soviet flanks from their airbases near Stalingrad? How could they have failed to detect the gathering armor facing them?

@jakemize9619 2 года назад

Great presentation in this series bud, really appreciate all your hard work.

@dongately2817 2 года назад

The distances look so small represented on this map but in reality the encirclement was an area about the size of Massachusetts.

@IL2TXGunslinger 2 года назад

Oh Brilliant! I love the time you take in front of the map of the beginning of 22 Nov in the last portion of this video. The map evolution between the 20 and 22nd explains everything. The Red Army finally got their gears in sync and dominated the Germans at the Operational level balancing well selected objectives and actually executed "Deep Battle" they'd imagined in the late 20's and 30's. Neither the OKW or OKH saw it coming. I read "Lost Victories" back in the early 90's and believed it at the time. Von Mellenthin, Guderian, Rauch - ALL took similar lines to Von Manstein. Paulus and the 6th Army were provided no time to withdraw as the Soviets controlled the timetable. Thanks!!!

@Turtle76rus 2 года назад

You misunderstand Manstein at 37:27 , he's not talking about the early stages of Uranus, he's talking about the early stages of Fall Blau. If Paulus had attempted a break-out in late June, he could've easily reached friendly lines and established a better defensive position, preferably along the banks of Spree. Then Manstein could've begun a counter-attack in full force.

@eze8970 2 года назад

June? That was when the Axis launched Fall Blau.

@joel0joel0 2 года назад

but it takes a genius like manstein to see, that you have to shorten your logistical lines in order to win.

@comiccollex958 2 года назад

Even though we all know how this ends, this video was gripping. Thanks for putting so much work into these videos TIK

@christophjager5595 Год назад

Hi Tik, thank you for your Stalingrad series as it explained to me (40 year old Austrian) why the eyewitnesses that served as soldiers on the front always contradicted the reports of the generals and the eyewitnesses that served in some staff roles. Especially the blaming of Paulus was always funny to me, as basically the collapse of an entire army and front was put as his fault and his alone, because he was unwilling to break out. There was always the unfair comparison to Rommel, because Rommel was not obeying Hitlers orders and Retreated from El-Alamein - even the latter one was not encircled, not without food, not without gas and nobody could cut him off coming from any flank (dessert on one side, sea on the other). As you seem to wonder how Manstein got away with blaming Paulus, I have a certain idea how that may worked out. We generally hear all the narratives of generals (Manstein, Guderian), that lived in West Germany after the war, because those could write their memoires. Furthermore some of this generals (Manstein) were in advising roles of the German army after they got released from prison. West Germany at that time needed an army to fight the Soviets, the US needed a German army to fight the Soviets until their reserves arrived in the case of a Soviet attack and so did all the other western allies. Hence, it was in the interest of the US to leave the Germans their believe of being the best soldiers in the world. So, basically they only lost because some Austrian pied piper led them into oblivion. At this point in time nobody had any interest in getting down to the truth and they also weren't able to as Paulus was on the other side of the iron curtain - basically an enemy. So, would you - in this situation - prefer having the genius backing you up or questioning his genius? - He was just failing because of Hitler, right? In addition there was and is a looking down attitude from people of West Germany ("Wessis") towards people of Eastern Germany ("Ossis"). So the Ossis are inferior to the Wessis as the Wessis pulled themselves out of their post WW2 misery while the Ossis didn't do anything after the war until reunification (which ignores thousands of facts, but is quiet convenient for your own self esteem). In this framework Paulus was an Ossi and Manstein a Wessi. Nobody will question that narrative in Germany - not even today. Why? They are economically inferior due to their time in a planned economy and they are only about a fifth of the unified German population. I can't proof that this is true. It's just fitting to my life experience. Kind Regards Christoph

@asullivan4047 Год назад

Interesting and informative. Excellent use of maps enabling viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Orator presented the documentary very well. Class A research project!!! Rough fierce combat operations on both sides. By mid November the Russian armies were slowly gaining military advantages. Paulus was slowly running low on supplies & options. The disillusioned fool waited too long to abandon Stalingrad. The 6th army was in no physical condition to escape.

@NIKOLASAV1 2 года назад

Perfect eay to end a hard and tiring day. Thank you for this TIK.

@RweebRommel 2 года назад

Can't believe they did my boy Paulus dirty like that. Disgraceful :( In all seriousness however, great job TIK. I hadn't known about all the machinations behind the scenes. The meeting of the corps commanders behind Paulus' (but not von Weichs') back was really interesting. Even at this time the chain of command was sort of collapsing. I love your content and even now at the end of my evening shift when I'm watching this, you bring a smile to my face with your quality content. Cheers!

@nigellawson8610 2 года назад

I did not know that Paulus did not have enough strength to secure even his southern flank. The idea of a breakout in this situation was at best a fantasy. Forming a hedgehog defense while waiting to be relieved was the only logical option for Paulus to take in the face of the strength the Soviets arrayed before him.The situation that confronted him on Nov 22, 1942 highlights the whole folly of Operation, Blue, especially Directive 45. The fact that the Germans tried to conquer the oilfields of the Caucasus and take Stalingrad at the same time with inadequate forces to even accomplish one of these objectives highlights the lack of strategic insight of the German high command. It doomed the German Army to defeat. All it takes is one look at a map to illustrates the fact that the Germans were operating on a shoestring. in other words, with their commitments in other theaters of operations the Germans were spread just too thin. Also, by the time of the 6 Army's encirclement Nazi Germany had lost the battle of production. With the failure of Germany to knock out the Soviet Union in 1942, the Nazi's fate was sealed. Without the oil and other resources the German's could have extracted from a defeated Soviet Union, they could not hope to compete with America and the British Empire in the production of food stuffs, trained manpower, and war materials.

@lucagriglio8253 2 года назад

It is a very interesting, given the delay Uranus suffered due to Romanian resistance, it seems to me that had germans been able to deploy a couple of mobile divisions they would have managed to blunt badly the operation

@pedromayrinck 2 года назад

What I think is being overlooked here is that it would have been much easier to make a break out before the Russian consolidated a circle around Stalingrad. Plus Paulus could have at least try to send all kinds of non-fighting personnel to the rear before being encircled. I still think Paulus bears much of the blame. A more aggressive commander such as Rommel would have reacted differently. A few months later Paul Hausser had a much different reaction when his units were about to be trapped in Kharkov.

@superyamky 2 года назад

I was waiting for this video. Thanks tik :D

@scottcornford1644 2 года назад

bro your a mad man creating this series but my God its soooo good

@apie74 2 года назад

This series is amazing in detail. Keep it up 👍

@stevelebreton3489 2 года назад

Thanks for the video mate great job as always ☺️

@89Mangerhero 2 года назад

Love this series amazing videos always appreciate all your hard work and effort

@highjumpstudios2384 2 года назад

TIK toks in with another wonderful Monday video.

@robert48044 2 года назад

After watching a lot of the series I wonder if Ukraine will one day get the same coverage considering a lot of the fighting ends up in the cities in the same way. We even have a river sorta blocking an advance currently.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 2 года назад

We would first have to have serious historic research of actual sources and archives into that war, and not base youtube videos on the propaganda coming out of Kyiv and Moscow. As so many historic channels like Kings and Generals have succumbed too in the pursuit of the almighty click. I'm still waiting for the first serious history of the wars in Iraq, as the archives in Washington and London are still closed to anyone.

@robert48044 2 года назад

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 I agree whole heartily, just something that crossed my mind with the Ukrainians constantly finding themselves under siege in foundries and factories.

@robert48044 2 года назад

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 took about 30 years to start getting Vietnam stories that weren't propaganda

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 2 года назад

@@robert48044 Then maybe that is a sign that the official narrative from Kyiv that they are doing well doesn't match up with reality. And why youtube history channels shouldn't do videos about them that look like their other history videos.

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 2 года назад

@@robert48044 Yup.

@krzysztofk6242 2 года назад

Video is just great! Thx!

@Calventius 2 года назад

I appreciate the topographic maps!

@markprange2430 16 дней назад

The overextension and need to retreat to a defensible line was reported in August 1942.

@sniperboom1202 2 года назад

I feel like to properly digest all the information in these you need to watch several times and then the whole series in one to get how fluid these events can seem. One moment you are pushing steadily but suffering heavy losses for it only to have all that threatened by your enemies careful planning and deception along with one's own faulty Intel.

@worththesqueeze1386 2 года назад

Yesssss just the thing for my badly jetlagged brain. This will keep me awake for a while.

@calumdeighton 2 года назад

"Could Paulus have abandoned Stalingrad before encirclement?" Yes! If he had never entered the city, he could have won! Because we know Germans can't fight or win a city! - Wehraboo answer:

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Glorious German army is defeated by buildings!

@KaraBoga69 2 года назад

Hehe

@NikhilSingh-007 2 года назад

Blessed be the believers -Manstein.

@nemiw4429 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight ahh thats why they leveled all buildings before and after stalingrad. So they dont pose any danger. An angry building is not to play with after all. We have seen what angry cars are capable of in transformers.

@kamakazi339 2 года назад

God I love this series! Thank you again and again

@wizardpv1 2 года назад

Tik you realy know how to made my day with new episode

@alexprince9035 2 года назад

I mean if they didn’t hold onto Stalingrad even though they were encircled. There was a chance the army group a would of been cut off and trapped in the caucuses

@nemiw4429 2 года назад

Still you CANT EXCPECT so many man to die. Its morally wrong at thr highest level. And there was always a chance an early breakout would have worked, before the soviets dug in.

@alexprince9035 2 года назад

@@nemiw4429 one death is a strategy a million is a statistic- Joseph Stalin

@nemiw4429 2 года назад

@@alexprince9035 one death is a tragedy you mean. I know that quote. Politicians have to think like that. They have to see it from the perspective of the country, not individual. If 10 die but 20 survive they did a good job. If they now invest energy rhinking about the 10 dead people they wont be able to do a goodnjob next time.

@alexprince9035 2 года назад

@@nemiw4429 we’re looking at things from hindsight. Even if the 6th army was able to breakout. They wouldn’t be in any condition to counterattack. The 6th army and army group A would of been cut off and trapped in the caucuses. Having the 6th army trapped at Stalingrad helped army group A escape. The 6th army held up a lot of Soviet units. That could of been used to trap army group a

@loadmaster7 2 года назад

Thorough debunking of age-old myths time and time again. Great work, thank you TIK! Makes me glad that I'm able to support you via Patreon, even though our politics don't align at all ;-)

@cliveashleyhamilton 2 года назад

Seconds in and again the maps had produced really are something

@phillipneal8194 2 года назад

Excellent analysis. Thank you.

@baatil10 2 года назад

Glad you're feeling better to make this video.

@EL20078 2 года назад

Very well made TIK, your best one yet! On a side note, I think Paulus was blamed for the disaster partly because he joined the Seydlitz organization.

@uffa00001 2 года назад

Extremely interesting instalment of this extremely interesting series!

@t5ruxlee210 2 года назад

Profound - a good honest sorting of the true wheat from the politics of the "chaff fog".

@peterhughes8699 2 года назад

Another great video - love this series :)

@sparkey6746 2 года назад

Excellent presentation

@Pangora2 2 года назад

I jsut finished a full rewatch yesterday! Anyways, comment time. I think this series makes it more spectacular reserves were moved in the way at all. There was a response, it wasn't enough, and it did buy them time. Nowhere near enough. ALSO a huge point to consider is illustrated perfectly in another TIK series. How far did the Afrika Korps go in Rommel's Dash-to-the-Wire which lost him a victory? That was a winning Corps that made a mad dash that so weakened it it was pushed back halfway through Africa. Now how much further did 6th Army have to go to, possibly Rostov, in Winter? There probably wouldn't be a 6th Army to save if it made the attempt.

@Comradez 2 года назад

Yes, imagine having to fight your way out of the encirclement if you are the 6th Army...without any of your heavy weapons or vehicles (because there wasn't enough fuel or time to build up new fuel reserves). The army would have taken horrendous losses, might have disintegrated on the spot, and wouldn't have even accomplished the task of tieing up several Soviet armies until Feb 3rd, which it ended up accomplishing by standing fast. The only logical alternative was to stand fast and hope for a miracle break-in attempt sometime later from the outside, and even if that miracle break-in attempt didn't work, at least the 6th Army has tied up Soviet armies in the meantime rather than disintegrated in a disorderly retreat/breakout.

@cliveashleyhamilton 2 года назад

Tik I've been away for while busy with other things as your long format format requires a lot of time. Do you find it odd how far your channel has taken you to the stage where you have become influential working in your room? It must feel quite bizarre how big your channel is?

@ramonalonso3554 2 года назад

Excelent episode as always

@maciejniedzielski7496 Год назад

@TIK History. Great explanation of situation. So resuming Paulus was example of what is called in French bouc émissaire - kozioł ofiarny pol (scapegoat). Book of Mainstein Lost Victories should be seen as politically commode in the time when many former generals were reintegrated in Bundeswehr. It is as always blaming Russian Winter but ...wait Operation Bagration and the destruction of Herresgruppe Mitte was in Summer 1944 Not in Winter

@caractacusbrittania7442 2 месяца назад

What surprises me is, If the advance to the volga, was just to enable a thrust for the oilfields of the caucasus, Why, roumania being an ally, did the Germans not just install another 50 oil wells at ploesti, This would have given them all the oil they needed, in a secure environment.

@davidplowman6149 2 года назад

That’s a long retreat to get out of that pocket. Even with the fog of war Paulus and the other generals probably realized they had no chance to escape. Sixth army couldn’t save itself so there only real option was to bunker down and hope for the best. The distance was also a problem for any relief force. Add to that the Soviets had a lot of forces where the relief force would need to breakthrough. Basically, 6th army was gone by the end of November. It might tie up some Soviet resources, but not enough to really matter. Any attempt to save it was a waste of resources.