Just as a point of properties : -strength is resistance to deformation (bending, prying, etc.), this is applying a force essentially very slow were the steel has time enough to deform (move) internally if necessary -toughness is resistance to fracture (impact), this is applying a force so fast that the steel can not deform fast enough to absorb energy and so it will crack if necessary (if over loaded)
Outstanding work, all I could think when the tip broke was Damn, that's some nice grain structure. I'd recommend testing corrosion resistance as well which should be easy enough. Temper 5 or so types of steal. Leave one set outside (because people forget stuff) put one set in a pair of jeans with a brine soaked ham (to represent edc) and leave one set in a bedside drawer (because you always need that knife until a better one comes along) walk away for a month and see what you come back too. Just my two cents. A great video boss!
Once you leave the land of decent budget products you always enter the land of diminishing returns. You pay a shit-ton for that last little bit of quality. For the price of one Porsche 911 you can buy four Toyota Camrys.
profd65 what a shitty comparison. A Porsche 911 is a sports car that is beautifully manufactured, mid engine borderline super car. Compared to your grand mother’s Toyota Camry. Just because you cannot afford one does not mean it’s not worth the price
@@Connor-wf2zn I didn't say that a Porsche 911 isn't better than a Toyota Camry, shit for brains, but it's not four times as good as one. If you looked at cars as mere tools instead of as status symbols or props in hip hop videos, you would easily see this. And my ability or inability to afford a 911 has no affect on my thinking. Let's talk about what I can afford: I have a guitar I paid $800 for, and it definitely isn't twice as good as a $400 guitar--I know, because I also own a guitar I paid $400 for, and I've played many other guitars that cost $400, and many other guitars that cost $800 or more.
@@profd65 3V, 4V, Vanadis 4 Extra etc steels, actually ARE four times better than common 1095 etc steels. they have 4 times the edge retention, 4 times more toughness, more stain resistant and so on....Not ot mention the better fit and finish, better gandle ergos, better sheaths etc you get with a more expensive knife. It's simple, you get what you pay for.
@@greekveteran2715 It's simple, you're wrong. A Spyderco Delica isn't twice as good as an Ontario Rat with D2 steel. It might not be better than it at all. A Bark River Aurora II isn't three times as good as a Mora Garberg. I'd rather have the Aurora but no way it's three times as good. Now, the Benchmade Puukko comes in CPM-3V and costs more than the Garberg, but it probably is worth the extra money you pay. But the Puukko only costs $127.50 (versus $89.99 for the Garberg). The difference in price isn't huge, but the little bit extra you pay gets you superior steel and Benchmade's awesome warranty. As for CPM 3V being four times tougher than high carbon 1095--I very seriously doubt it. If your 1095 knife isn't robust enough for you, just make the blade a little thicker. The Becker BK2 is made out of 1095 Cro-Van, and that thing is a tank. Good luck trying to break it. The 1095 will definitely rust so you need to look after it. The1095 won't hold an edge long, but it's easy to sharpen.
Well done! You’ve gotten quite sophisticated in your knife builds compared to some of your earlier attempts. Very cool. Can’t wait to see the next step.
I've noticed 3V completely changes when cryo''ed in LN2 for 2 hours, Then hardened even more when Cryo'ed a second time over night, between tempers. It only gets worse on belts.
Re: edge retention. If you want to eliminate a *little* bit of the subjectivity of your cardboard cutting, go have a look at Pete’s data on the Cedric and Ada channel. He has a link to his spreadsheets in almost every video description now; just pick any of his recent videos and look in the description. I didn’t see that he tested 1084, but given that he’s done just about every other steel(!) you can do some interpolation.
Try some Vanadis 4 Extra, even Ballbearing steel can get better on both edge retention and edge stability, compared to CPM 3V. It's not overrrated but there are way better performers in my experience out there (all things be equal of course, 'cause other atributes like heat treatment, bevel geometries, etc, are far more important.)
3V is a great steel, but the heat treat as you show is a pain. I used wet silicon carbide belts to grind it after HT so I didn't have to keep dunking it in water. Stuff is totally remarkable, but my heat treater used an air blast to quench. That plate quench is probably why the tip broke. The heat treat is why it is very expensive. It is a very shock resisting steel, that's why it's tougher, the very high vanadium content makes a lot of V carbide which is harder than tungsten carbide. Any of the high vanadium steels will hold an edge very well, better than any other steel just about.
In regards to toughness, one thing to consider is long term use. Ed Schempp was one of the first makers for example to note that in Bladesports, a lot of steels can easily handle one competition, or even multiple but after awhile they will suffer catastrophic failure. This is why he preferred simple steels because they will outlast the life time of a user. I have seen knives last for days, even weeks of use and then suddenly just suffer gross failure, it is just an accumulation or growth of small micro-cracks. So even IF a steel can take a certain amount of use for low cycles (
@Star Gazer1212 Wood performance is a very different thing in many respects. It is mainly push cutting, and you want an edge which ideally wears very slow, no chipping surely. Try maybe W1, Super Blue, M2 or M4, make sure you get someone who hardens it in a sensible manner for wood cutting.
I like knifes because of their diversity or properties and uses. I rarely only have access to 1 knife that requires me to be super picky about that knife being perfect for every task. I do like balanced usefulness in a EDC knife, but life is full of compromises. Choose the ones that fit your needs.
3 year old video but it just popped up for me. This video gave me a newfound respect for Mark Johnson of Vulcan Knives. He has built me two folders using Rex121 and a few more for other people. He had never even heard of the steel until I asked him if he was up to the challenge of building me a folder using it. He said it was quite a bit more difficult to work with than his usual 20cv but after watching this video I think he was downplaying how difficult it was, since Rex is a bit harder than 3v. If anyone is curious, both knives he made tested at 70 and 70.5hrc!
As to that tip breaking I think as you already know I'm sure that was more blade geometry than failing steel . At 76 now i think the whole super steel quest is necessary for some my self no . I have zero problems with sharping a blade every now and then .most everything I own is either 440 -c , 01 ,1095 ,and my favorite is 1056 . I am not a small knife guy and most knives tend to lean toward the Bowie style it's my thing and I love them all .Thanks for all your hard work in looking for that perfect material but for me it's cost I simply can't see paying hundreds for a knife it's just not necessary for me but for some it is the quest for the newest thing and good for them it's there fun in life so be it go for it . Happy trails stay safe in the shop. Get some cement board over the insulation paper behind your oven and above . Stay safe
I love Bark Rivers 3V I have 3 blades in it. You’re right it’s hard to work with & they have a company that water jets and grinds the primary bevel, then another company that does the HT so it’s easier for them because they just do the final grinding and apply handles (which is still a lot of work). Have you considered elmax, S35VN, M390, Cru-Wear is a great steel.
I heard 1080 is forge steel and much easier to consistently heat treat than 1095 and then there is D2 which i find good for pretty much anything except diving but i guess its air quenched too - good basic carbon steel is awesome and works like a champ ---keep it simple and good Cheers
These videos were awesome. I really want to get a great EDC fixed blade knife, but I'm so behind the times on what's out there. So I'm really glad to see your videos and I hope to see more, to try to figure out what I want in a fairly small EDC knife and how long I would have to save up for it. I may be disabled, but I'm not dead. Just low on money. Lol 🤣 I have love knives since I was 10 and learn the quickest way to lose interest in knives is to never have a good quality one, to see what a quality made knife feels like and what it can do. These new knives are just amazing. 😲
Go with Mora for a edc fixed blade. They are cheap enough so you don't stop yourself from actually using it in the "wrong" way, that's the point and why ALL working people use them in Sweden.
you might try 8670. its affordable, easy to heat treat and extremely tough. It doesnt rust instantly like that one alloy you had either. check out the baton test on the 8670 chef knife on Alpha Knife Supply.
Back after blowing my face up 👍 been so damn busy lately that I can sit and catch up on your vids for a while now 👌🤣 can't wait honestly. Stay awesome Alex 👍
I’m a simple man. I see your videos I watch and hit like. Please keep the content coming! As for the steel if you’re making the knife for you I say make it out of the toughest and best material possible, extra work be damned!
IMO the 3V still belongs to the category of "reasonable" super blade steels, not that crazy expensive with tons of Mo and V in it. Now the knife makers are simply promoting stuffs like M340 to get higher pricing on the product AND ignoring proper treatments to explore the potentials. Very educational video!
" Science is the field of study concerned with discovering and describing the world around us by observing and experimenting. Biology, chemistry, and physics are all branches of science. Science is an "empirical" field, that is, it develops a body of knowledge by observing things and performing experiments." Mate, if its not science that you are doing, then what is it? Experimentation with no purpose?
I've never seen this method of quenching before, thanks for demonstrating it. You did it in 3 seconds so it's viable, I think the max allowance for most Steel types for martensite transformation is 7-8 seconds. So anything under 8 will work.
3v is an air quenching steel. Plate quenching is usually only done with air quenching steel. Although with the right set up it can probably be done with some slow oil hardening steel like o1. It will not work with steels that have a very fast cooling curve needed to harden like 1095 or 1084 etc.🙂
@@OUTDOORS55 Oh okay, so this is a type of air hardening technique, thanks for the info. I think I own a few air hardened steel blades, but I've never attempted it myself. I actually assumed you just put them in a air vacuum or cold air near ice. I would never have guessed plates were used to transfer the heat and absorb it. pretty ingenious.
I doubt I'll ever nee to know all of this, (Can't afford the equipment for that metal) but thanks any way, enjoyed the video...your other videos have helped this old duffer much, Thanks...I don't know where you live but I love the woods in the background of the burn barrel.
I tend to think that ninety five percent of the public could get by fine with another type of steel. Would be good to have a knife like that, good material, but considering all things, there's other options ! Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
I think you're right. It makes sense to prioritize your wants and go for the top priority and maybe a "nice to have" characteristic, instead of all your wants in one knife as wonderful as that would be.
I am not a knife maker, but a knife user. Still, this is interesting, since I knew so little about heat treatment and it can have a direct affect on the quality of the knife, despite the type of steel. I would like to see a list or comparison of companies who do good treatment of certain steels.
with releases like magnacut, there's a strong preference to stainless over stain"full" Tops 154cm sells like hot cakes Can't keep them stocked Esee is releasing more and more in s35vn. People don't want the added maintenance and stress of having to constantly oil a tool or carbon steel blade, keep it dry, and separate from the sheath, and God help you if you're out in the forest with your wrinkler If it starts raining. With 154cm you're good to go
The tip of the Mora 511 is tougher. I've done that tip test with birch wood. It was really hard/dry. A cutting board. Many knives fail that test. The 511 didn't.
Just buy a bark river bravo 1 lt. Use it for testing 3v capability. I have one. Took alot of sandpaper to reprofile the edge but man it lasts. I batoned 20 poplar logs and it was still sharp. Not hair shaving but 5 minutes on the strop it was back! I never ReSharpen. Just maintain with a strop. Easy blade maintenance
I know less about metallurgy than I do about astrophysics, but it seems that the heat treat is at least as important as the steel. I have a couple of 420HC Bucks that will hold an edge through all kinds of abuse. They're also a bitch to sharpen. Am I wrong?
I have the SRK in 3v and I'm now resisting the urge to put some abuse to it. Good video, and I think the answer is the cost in time and effort depends on the efficiency in manufacturing. Heat treating 1 blade at a time vs Heat treating 100 blades at a time or having a constant revolving 1 blade on one blade off to the next step assembly type production makes it much more plausible but again. That's not the small or custom knife makers forte until they are a little more advanced and established and even then. I'd say it's a flagship metal although i'm curious how polished the steel will get as my SRK is fairly dull and more of a grey color than it is silver.
But when the 3v has the right temper with a good thick .25" blade and good geometry on the edge and thick tip then you've got about an indestructible knife as you could possibly have.. For example, the Lionsteel T6, it's unreal tough.
Just a a point of terminology, if you say you are doing "unscientific" testing, that means you can not know anything as a result of what you do, that likely isn't what you want to say. Science is a way of knowing which is based on testing your ideas by interacting with the world, in comparison to say Math or Logic which is a way of knowing by testing your ideas vs other ideas, you can do it all in your head. Science has no limit on accuracy or precision, in fact many scientific experiments are very low in both. I have published experiments (peer reviewed journal articles) where the most I could say was something was closer to 10 than 100, that's not very accurate or precise, but that's cool because I was very clear on the low strength of the claims (my data set was just barely above the noise but my lab group was seeing something never before observed). All science demands is that your claims are supported by data, not that they have so many decimal places. This just means you be very careful what you claim, usually how certain you are, which is why scientists in general are always making so many caveats and being clear about uncertainty, variances, the need for work to verify, support, etc. .
Another great video my friend, still wish I could buy one of your knives. Congrats on 100k+ subscribers, enjoyable and informative video. I saw blackbeard project video do a place quench with compressed air was really interesting. Love the new shop and new equipment looks great.
i think your subjective qualitative judgments are in fact good data points, because it's what the end user ultimately will feel the difference with. whether it feels tough, and whether it feels like it's retaining it's edge somewhat more than mid grade steels
Also 3v rusts like crazy! When I commissioned my knife; he had to ship it off to be heat treated because his oven wasn't big enough! ...mind you I had to twist this guys arm to get him to make it because he didn't want to out source... he said the company he had do it had a very interesting heat treatment that required a salt bath 🤷♂️ maybe that means something to you but I always wondered what exactly that processed looked like.
Molten salt kiln...literally. Howard Clark used one in Weapon Masters...the katana episode. They are vertical, for longer blades. Try EEZOX or Corrosion X for your rust problem. Im not sure how simmering a rusty 3V blade in water would affect it...as far as coloring goes but I do know it converts red rust to black magnetite on standard HC steels. I've done it. See Walter Sorrels video called "Caring for carbon steel knives"
@@tikkidaddy oh the rust I keep at bay. I just noticed if I set it down while working it on a wet stone, it will rust before it dries... i was aware this is the down side to 3V but was still impressed how quickly it goes! Currently under the daunting task of giving it a mirror polish.
I'm not really concerned about the edge retention as much as I am about the toughness, I just simply want a knife with a drop point blade, between 5 and 6.5 mm's thick, with the blade length at 5 inches, overall about 10 or 10.5 inches long with a micarta or g-10 handle and a sheath. If it can withstand the abuse that I put it through...it's worth paying for!!!
How do feel about S30V? I bought a Benchmade Bushcrafter awhile ago but had to change the grind it's laughable out of box. They really like putting folder grinds on fixed blades .... I was not happy with the stock blade. Even the handle was off a bit but I just fixed it all and now it's a great knife amd holds up well. . That said I think a 1095 version would be just fine to me .. I just don't really care anymore . I'd rather just have a good 1095 that sharpens without diamond stones.
13:44 Where does it take you? Well, for me that's easy. The whole "toughness" issue is the domain for specialist knifemakers/purists who understand this stuff. How does it affect the average Joe who id into wilderness adventuring of some sort? It seems to me that it wouldn't affect us at all. So for me, if I could buy a knife (say and ESEE4 in stainless or in 1095, at comparable prices), I would obviously go for the stainless, as the only advantage HC steel has is super toughness, which for all practical purposes I don't need (provided I handle the knife for the purposes it was made for.) Feedback?
for the end user, there is only ONE problem with properly hardened and heat treated 3V....it's harder to sharpen.....the upside is that you do not have to sharpen it anywhere NEAR as often....I have only 3V steel knives.....
It would be interesting to learn what you need and how to make knives . I know you have covered some of this already but I don’t know if you put it in a new knife maker format
