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Cranking, running, and manual compression. Lessons learned & direction on timing code HScope/HS512 

Back Alley Diagnostics
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Every hook up is a lesson, so was this one . paying attention to make sure I am at the right image In the buffer. Finally found the 720 degree rulers with help from a comment. Thanks for keeping it real and lending a hand , that is my one and only goal #automotive #oscilloscope #toyota

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22 май 2024

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Комментарии : 23   
@VashthStampeede
@VashthStampeede 14 дней назад
With the transducer, you are seeing the first pump repeated again and again. Us old timers knew that the first pump told a lot about engine health and had to be over 90 psi back when engine design produced 140 to 160 maximum. 130 psi could have been a healthy engine if all readings were within 20% of each other from highest to lowest.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 14 дней назад
That's the part that was getting me the first run. I knew there was going to be some curve to tranducer vs gauge but then again, wanting to see some familiar readings didn't work out lol. It's all a great learning experience, that's for sure. I'm retired and pretty much keep my friends and neighbors rides running, bunch of ministry vehicles. Need equipment on a budget that actually works, I'd like to get to the point I trust new school with it. Beings like I mentioned low cost, you wonder at first when things don't look right. With a meter I look at it like what is it trying to tell me? Then eventually it tells me lol. First tine runs with all non-matching electronic brands, it's like wow.. does it know what it's trying to tell me or is it me ? Good times! Yes that was kind of what I tinkered with , instead of manual compression on every cylinder, just check one after the RC was normal. Such an easy setup and 1/4 of the labor on a 4 cylinder. That's at least tech I can use!
@arthurfricchione8119
@arthurfricchione8119 9 дней назад
Eric I thought I would watch this one again to me personally all cylinder captures tend to be more TDC with the coil firing and perpendicular with in the compression tower with no leaning within the compression tower. It looks well advanced at idle to me. Please let me know if I’m wrong the only way to learn is discussing it with another Diyer. Hope you don’t mind. Growing up in the street hot rod days we just used a timing light and old school compression gauge which I still have. 😊
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 9 дней назад
Yes, I was thinking the same, but it's always hind sight. I should have used the actual primary ignition pattern instead of the signal. Going by the signal, I don't know what real info this would have actually told me. It did, however, let me get used to setting it up and seeing if hscope if the scope ran it ok. I was happy with it all except the piping for the transducer. I ordered some heavy-duty ones from rotkee. Seems the rigid pipe is optimal, the one with the kit is thin aluminum. The hose changes some of the readings and if a hose must be used, the heavier the better. Hope to get some more use when it gets here! Sometimes, good tools come with crappy accessories. For sure, if I need compression, I'm getting the old gauge first ! Take care!
@1MiketheMechanic
@1MiketheMechanic 20 дней назад
A couple of things with the compression testing. A standard test is 4-5 cycles on a static compression test. The analog compression gauge HOLDS pressure with a schrader valve and allows the engine to push that to the maximum. The pressure transducer doesn't hold pressure and shows true pressure for that cycle. Running compression is generally much lower, often around 40-60% of static cranking pressure. Using a rigid pipe with the pressure transducer will give you the most accurate readings. You can actually tell where all the valvetrain timing is at with the pressure transducer. Brandon Steckler and Bernie Thompson both have videos on reading an in cylinder pressure transducer reading. Ignition timing is not engine timing.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 20 дней назад
Thank you! Every time is going to be more productive due to great comments. Now, the running readings make more sense. The ridgid tube leaves some to be desired on this kit, Rotkee suggests the ridgid tube where possible also. This one is aluminum for some reason, I trusted the hose more . The Rotkees appear brass , maybe I'll add a set of their adapters so I can use ridgid. Bernie Thompson I've started watching lately, but much to learn. Thanks again!
@weldingjunkie
@weldingjunkie 18 дней назад
And best with closed throttle plate not WOT that’s why there is no valve train in the signal. It’s best to stop fuel or spark to start to get best capture
@jonalowe
@jonalowe 23 дня назад
On the cranking compression between the gauge and the transducer, you'd expect the transducer to be less. The mechanical gauge has a foot valve so it maintains the pressure between cycles, and it builds up pressure over several rotations. The transducer has no foot valve, so you only see peak pressure from that particular cycle. It has no chance to build up over several rotations. Put a foot valve on it, and I'll bet you see pretty comparable results. But with the foot valve, you'll lose the whole picture of the cycle; you'd only see the pressure increase on each cycle of compression.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 23 дня назад
Thank you! I have seen the hoses modified, and that is going to be on the list. I was thinking more for universal connectivity, but that adds some food for thought. Keep this hose, if it lasts that is, and have one with the valve. I'd like to trust the transducer, learning the ropes!
@user-hi3pt3mv2i
@user-hi3pt3mv2i 23 дня назад
@@manelishi13 i would suggest do a search and their good channels that gets into depth on in cylinder pressure wave forms and how to look at cam crank signals. been doing this several years now still learning. but the first one you showed did not look right to me . were you cranking or idling, but glad you are trying to learn .it does get better as you capture known good and bad. when i do a tune up on a good veh i take time and capture the known good. it gives you more practice and more data. also look at the wave form idling and activate the cam solenoid and you will see the difference also
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 22 дня назад
@user-hi3pt3mv2i Great idea I never considered, I could have activated the solenoid and pretty much could have eliminated oil control. Looking back, I see a few things like triggering off the signal with an attenuator and such. Paul Danner taught me better than that, just not used to the setup yet like the old habits, lol. One good thing is I'll have another chance on it fixed, trigger from primary, and use scantool to see the vvt activating. That was one clue that sent me in to see if it was sludge. Activating from the tool made no difference to the idle. New phaser on it , new solenoid, so never ever worked. Just got the scope and transducer, so I figured there was no better time than the present than to learn. Boy, have I learned some. Thanks for the input, I am going to do an after for sure activating the vvt!
@weldingjunkie
@weldingjunkie 18 дней назад
Manual compression hose has a Schrader valve and holds max pressure, a transducer is true actual pressure. I’m assuming that’s what you are calling a foot valve. Also rubber hoses with tranducers expand so readings aren’t as accurate, you need a high psi or steel hose in order to get the correct reading. Delta sensor just senses the pressure differential and can’t be measured in psi like the transducer can. Both have thier places. A relative compression test should always be first but not the last test.
@bobcombs7138
@bobcombs7138 23 дня назад
Great catch on the vvt screen for sure. You may be able to supply your own power and ground to that solenoid to verify that it's working properly. It should click and you should see movement if working properly. I'm wondering if it would be worth doing a cam and crank waveform and comparing it to a known good that you may be able to find on the Internet. Of course that maybe a little harder to find since most are in a Pico scope format. If you just had a good screenshot it may give you something to go on. Thanks for posting this one, I think your on the right track and hope you get this one figured out.
@Marc_Wolfe
@Marc_Wolfe 17 дней назад
It's almost like compression readings change when you don't have a check valve.....
@aranhaydar9195
@aranhaydar9195 21 день назад
I'm not %100 certain, but when idling 20 degrees before TDC is normal on a lot of vehicles that i have seen.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 21 день назад
Confusing, on scan data at idle, it'd around 18 degrees and won't throw a code at all in the garage. Snap throttle and all, higher rpms. Drive it and oil light flashes and throws cam "a" over retarded code. Has something to do with oil and/or the vvt. The solenoid and vvt are new as well, but that means never ever worked, lol. I bench tested the solenoid, and it works. The actual VvT, when I activate it through the scanner, I can hear it by ear change a little. Usually, a fast increase almost stalls a car. Next time I get it in, I'm going to check if it's not losing control or manually activate the solenoid and see what happens. As dirty as the inside was, might put a pump on, but man toyota pumps usually run forever. At a loss
@Look4u_carfixing
@Look4u_carfixing 23 дня назад
Thank you for sharing this great video and I think if you put engine cleaner oil for 15 minutes it could fix the problem
@alexmessina7652
@alexmessina7652 21 день назад
Do I have a link to the guy who makes/sells those transducers??? 😊
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 21 день назад
www.ebay.com/itm/295879261262?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Hh7EQshDT5K&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=rthafkrasbu&var=594085566744&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY sweet little tool!
@alexmessina3383
@alexmessina3383 20 дней назад
@@manelishi13 Sorry I meant the Attenuators set ... I actually have this transducer.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 20 дней назад
www.martinloren.com/product/signal-attenuators-couplers/
@Marc_Wolfe
@Marc_Wolfe 17 дней назад
Throwing a lot of shit at something that would be resolved by a piston stop to determine TDC, and a timing light. Slipping timing won't change WHERE peak compression happens, just WHAT the peak compression is.
@manelishi13
@manelishi13 17 дней назад
I was trying to just confirm where the spark was occurring, I knew the compression from a manual gauge. Moreover, I wanted to see how a transducer compared to a manual gauge on a car that I can take my time and set up on. That way, the next time I actually need it is not starting from scratch. The car is running everyday and won't have it back for a few days. If I were trying to actually fix the car with speed,i would go right after the problem. Like I said, this is a learning experience on an inline 4, and I've been given advice from people who already know the equipment that is invaluable. Including from the developer, which I am very thankful for. If I actually needed any of this equipment in a pinch, I would be out 2 weeks for shipping otherwise. Better sooner than when in need, but technically, no, you dont need any of this to find a plugged vvt oil passage. It is nice, however, to know I can get something on the screen that might help in the future!
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