Crosley Genesis: The origin & evolution of cheap record players, 1984 to present 

*UPDATE:* I found another patent from Mr. Dennis that *exactly* matches the 1988 mechanism I showed in the video, including the unusually rapid auto-return feature: freepatentsonline.com/4788676.pdf

Here in the UK almost every turntable I encountered during the 70s was a BSR. My very first record player was a Fidelity stereo with a BSR deck just like this. I loved it. It played my records fine and was within the financial reach of my parents. Thank you BSR.

The only thing these cheap turntables ruined was the idea that vinyl sounded better. But it sparked my desire to get a proper setup for a much better sound experience. I say they're a decent intro turntable with the right expectations.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. In a weird way your videos are like therapy. ESPECIALLY in these messed up times of 2020.

I have never really bought into the whole “cheap modern needles will destroy your records within a few plays”. My two biggest gripes with these newer players is that the motor speeds often are either be too fast or slow … or there is too much flutter. On the “vintage look” players, what gets me is that makers like Crosley go to such extremes reproducing the cases to look genuinely like a 50-80 year old machine; only to open them up to be met with a black plastic turntable that look like 1990!

The Tetrad cartridge sounded the best. Those Chuo-Denshi (and clones) cartridges have always had a hollow tone with that scratchy trebly high end like we heard in the video, especially with the all-plastic stylus. I once had a mid-80's Fisher combo that had an all-black variation on the 1984 mechanism but with the Chuo-Denshi cart rather than the Tetrad. I've had several other players over the years from the early 90's through 2010's that use that same cart, and they all sound exactly the same.

The 1984 mechanism is trying so hard to look high end.

The 1984 sounds the best. I was fascinated by this as I had a BSR based record player in my Hitachi all in one as young music buff from the mid to late 70's

This was so helpful! I was able to find the speed adjustment “screws” on my Soundesign turntable b/c it was playing the records too slow and it would play 45’s but I cleaned the contacts on the switch and does now! By the way, your advice on turning a meh sapphire into a wow diamond was also super helpful!

BSR was a British company, formed as Birmingham Sound Reproducers in 1908. It was responsible from the 1950s onwards for the decks in the iconic British Dansette brand of record players, so BSR decks brought rock and roll to the receptive ears of British teenagers - along with the other main brand Garrard. Inevitably production disappeared to the far east in the 1980s, the remnants eventually being taken over by Emerson. Source - Wikipedia.

I like your chosen variety of music during this discussion. Makes for a much better video on modern record players! Super entertaining my friend!

My grandparents Phillips stereo system, which they bought brand new in 1988 uses the second design, and they played their records nearly every day until they died about 2 years ago. Can confirm it doesn't destroy the records.

Capetronic also made some of those radio/cassette/turntable units for JCPenney that were mostly made in Taiwan. Some of them having Capetronic's FCC ID on it and have the UL listing number 459E. Some of them even had an 8 track player.

Incredible knowledge and great presentation yet again. All of your videos are very interesting and so well presented. I've been a follower of your channel for a number of years now. You have one of the most interesting channels on the whole of RU-vid. Great work again.

Just played a record I got Xmas 1975 and it still sounds great. So much for all the hammer it took on the BSR decks back in the day 🤣 Didn't know Pioneer used a carousel cd player, thought they stuck to their load upside down cartridge mech. Excellent video cheers 🍻🎄

Very interesting! I think that the 1984 one gave the most pleasing audio quality. Piezo Pick-Up Cartridges don't really lend themselves to being used with Solid State Amplifiers and some cheaper Midi Systems have been sold with poor matching and sound tinny as a result when playing Records. Improving these is not difficult however as all you need to do is to add a Resistor of about a couple of Megohms in series with the Cartridge output and add a One Transistor Amplifier Stage after that to make up for the loss of amplitude across the Matching Resistor and there you are. You will have to do it twice for stereo equipment of course but the improvement is worth the time,effort and money.

Wow, didn’t expect them to have such a long history! thanks for the video!

Very interesting to see the ceramic cartridge as such having this manufactor initiated comeback. It have these "build-in features" of first delivering an almost line level output and secondly attenuating the output as the frequency goes up, eliminating the need for a RIAA preamp. The end result might not correspond perfectly with RIAA and may very well be several dB off, but then again it's good enough for non-critical everyday listening purposes.

Who would have thought that cheap turntables and entry level cassette decks would have such interesting histories. It should come as no surprise that my first stereo (Soundesign) had pretty much the same mechanism. My first record player was a Fisher Price, I wonder how it compared...

Had an earlier-model BSR w/auto-changer I had gotten 2nd-hand, and it too used those odd l'il ceramic cartridges. Set it up for my mom so she could still listen to her collection on our newer compact stereo, which had a 50+1 CD carousel.

James dennis designed multiple things i own and i never knew it what a legend

Loved this video. Good research. I learned a lot. Frank

Ah, memories! Not exactly my Dual 1229 with a 7+ pound turntable. But what was fun is still fun.

I think this actually speaks to the testament of the evolution of technology. Instead of paying $80-$100 for one of these cheap ones in fancy housing, I could buy one of these and dip my totes into the world of LP’s. I know it’s not going to provide sound of even a decently cheap one, but I also believe part of the experience is the LP’s themselves. Love your videos and thanks for this deep dive I would’ve otherwise never known about

In 1987, I got a Yorx "stack" system for my birthday. It had one of those type of record players (although it probably had a genuine Chuo Denshi cartridge).

Crosley arguably makes the best record players today and is probably the only reason record players remain relevant to a younger generation.

My family used to have a Yorx system with one of these but I'll give it some credit it did include a Yorx CD player that was identical to the Yorx CD Pal recently featured on this channel.

I recognize that Sankyo font. They are a pachinko/pachi slot maker in Japan. During the 80's when their machines started to integrate a lot of electronics they diversified and made other parts. So this doesn't come as surprise to me.

No, my parents didn't use a turntable that had that mechanism, they used a Technics SL-23A instead. But yes, Michael Fremer is wrong, however, over 5 grams shortens the lifespan of records. Nowadays, people expect records to last for decades, which is much longer than originally intended. That's why originally it was considered fine to use up to 7 grams of weight.

BSR is well known amongst European vintage tape recorder people. They made tape mechanics for the companies who wanted to make a tape recorder but couldn't be bothered making the mechanics - just like the record player mechanics. BSR can be found on Bang & Olufsen Beocord Belcanto and Eltra 1001 tape recorders.

My first turntable I had as an adult was a BSR from the late 70s or early 80s. The guts were really similar to the 1984 model, only I think it had metal parts, too. It was eating records, so I gave it to a friend that sold stereo equipment and he told me it had around 25g of tracking force, and wasn't adjustable.

Although they don't sound half bad, I'm still glad I bought a Philips 777 from its first owner 2 years ago 😊

back in 1984 they may have used heavier materials so it was not so bad but today the materials have gotten lighter and cheaper

This is why I prefer to buy old ones and refurbish them. My pride and joy, a 1970's four speed Newcomb portable record player. Bought for $8, just needed a cleaning, lubrication, and a fuse :3

Excellent video!😊

Never getting rid of my pair of SL-1200MK2s!

thanks for the great video !

I wonder if "Capetronic" is a play on Capehart, the one time high end radio manufacturer (and later), a brand of ordinary "all in ones" that included....BSR truntables.

Digital music would be more fun if it had a tone arm to watch while listening.

I remember, all players my family and related had was BSR based. Seems like it was in every brand in the late 70’s early 80’s.

Don't know if it's the same company but there's a Hyjet that makes motors for aquarium filters. Took apart and old cannister filter just yesterday and spotted that same logo!

I saw the thumbnail and read it as "crosley engines" and thought i was looking at an airfilter lol

I'd love to see a test of a brand new, high quality pressing of some record played on audiophile grade equipment, with a blindfolded audiophile as the listener, and then play a copy of the same record that has been played 100 times, normally (no intentional abuse or misuse) on a Crosley, and see if they could actually, legitimately tell that there was any difference. The arguments on here about "6 grams will absolutely ruin a record" and "i looked at a track on a record that had been played to death on a heavy radio station cartridge" etc dont mean a single thing if you cant discerne a loss in sound quality without first doing a math equation and reading 3 years worth of r/vinyl posts. And don't even reply saying I DID THIS ITS REAL because I know none of you have ever done it. Not defending Crosleys, they're crap. I'd never own one. But I also play my records occasionally on old battery powered portable record players, and when they're back at home on my real turntable I'd never know they were now "completely destroyed and unplayable" or whatever. Just enjoy your music and hobby in whatever way is accessible to you, and stop being scared that your one of a trillion copies of your hit fleetwood mac record or whatever priceless artifact of 1976 is...still fine for all intents and purposes. Great video as usual.

Gotta admit: The 2002 model, with the modded cartridge, sounded best of all of them... and this was while listening through cheap, panel-TV speakers! =:O

You can definitely hear how thinner the 1988 mechanism sounded in comparison to the 1984 mechanism, thanks to the top of the line Chuo Denshi (CD) cart in the 1988 model. But at the same time, the 2020 mechanism had the best stereo separation, and it used the CD. Though you can never call the CD a premium cartridge, obviously there has been some improvements in the mechanism over the years. Also, the 1984 CD had a plastic cantilever; does the 2020 have a metal one? That alone might make more of a difference than you might think. And I agree that there are definitely impedance issues with these mechanisms. Unfortunately, this is a manufacturing process that I understand cannot be rectified.

While Ill never by choice buy a turntable based of one of these. In my 50+ years of life I have Bought worce, made by better brands to an even cheaper price! I have bought 70's second hand Junk and awesome 70's second hand decks. There has always been a race to the lowest price point and a race to the be the Price Point winner! I have had access to 60's turntables that have had horrid catarages, and have put on better moving magnet cartridge to be surprised at how good it worked. Ever thought about doing a vid about the P mount system known as 4TP....

But what stereo brand used this design from the beginning ?

DC 12-volt motors are not reliant on whether 50 or 60Hz like mains voltage line frequency is. Provided a steady reliable DC voltage is supplied, the motor will run at, or near the correct speed to rotate a turntable and play a record at close to correct tempo.

After owning four of those five disc CD changers I finally gave up and went back to my single disc player. The problem was, like the Cosley junk, they were made mainly of cheap plastic and would start jamming very quickly, forcing me to open the case just to get my discs out. How Sony could lend their name to that trash baffles me to this day. One was a rebadged RCA but looked identical to the others.

Great video very interesting

Check out techmoan’s rant of this mechanism: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AXV8tXrPOR4.html

I had one of these

My dad said he gone buy somthing better than a Voyager but for some reason I kept with it and it still works no damage

My first stereo was a all in one soundesign with a dual cassette deck and a cheap turntable didn’t have any issues with it but the speed was way off so I got rid of it.

Not on amazon anymore :( where can I find the first one?

youtube needs to verify you.

I made two record videos using a portable Crosley record player that has that sort of player.

@VWestlife what is the song that starts at 06:59?

I find it fascinating that the same man who invented budget record changers invented budget CD changers 20 years later!

Tremendous knowledge, dry humor, zero b.s. Vwestlife, you are a treasure.

I’m here after watching Techmoans video 👍

I want to get a Crosley Cruiser and play Dark Side of the Moon five times in a row to spite Michael Fremer

Some detective work went into this one.

I had a suitcase Crosley and you know it was never a GREAT player, but it also didn't mess up my records and what it lacked in quality it allowed me the space to dip my feet into the world of vinyl collecting to know if I wanted to make a more worthy investment. These days I have a much more advanced (though still fairly "mid range") setup and I wouldn't have spent that money without exploring the scene with the Crosley first, and I think that's worth it.

So the main reason why record players with this kind of mechanism usually sound so bad is the impedance mismatch, since they don't have a pre-amp designed for a ceramic cartridge.

I have vivid memories of playing my parents records on their all-in-one Amstrad stereo back in the late 80s/early 90s that had a plastic turntable/orange cartridge just like these. If its cheap/affordable and works, that's enough for most people.

I know the factories(s) where the units are made. I was there a few times in the last years. They are all in Guangdong province in South China. I live there. The outer metal ring has a fuction. Normally it goes a little bit stronger around the plastic platter. The metal ring keeps the plastic platter in shape to reduce the altitude stroke (hopefully I use the right word, I am a native German...). This is working very well. If you want to know more you can ask me. The man who produces the cheap needles became very rich. He lives in a big villa. The smaller record players (suit case and so on, with the smaller platter) uses lower voltage. I made the suggestion years ago that run with a 5V USB power supply. In before the smaller units uses 9V. It seems they are all run with 5V now.

BSR is a very unfavorable name here in Berlin. It stands for "Berliner Stadtreinigung". The garbage collection service. I guess it's just a coincidence.

Luckily i've got an LP60X for christmas 😅

Getting all up in the history. You're like the New Jersey Techmoan. 🤣 Michael Fremer has some decent album recommendations, but since his turntable costs more than my car (and the pre-amp); and the amps and speakers more than my house... suffice to say he's a bit out of touch with affordable gear. I prefer the music first audiophile concept. If I can enjoy my music on a piece of equipment, I don't care if it's 'cheap'. Cheap can sound good with the proper pairings and knowing the limitations of your equipment.

. Thank you again for the subtitles. You have already a very good speech, easy to understand and a pleasing voice. But the subtitles helps me to get those words I'm still not able to understand by just hearing it 👍👍👍👍😀

Have to admit, these videos are way more useful for people getting into records than the videos of audiophiles claiming you need to spend $1000 on a cartridge made by nude virgins, and $3000 on a turntable and stereo or you'll never enjoy your records (which is utter rubbish.) The truth is the majority of people would be happy listening with a cheaper turntable and stylus, like the ones shown in this video. And if 6 grams of tracking force bugs you, I'd be willing to bet money that most of the used albums on the market today were generally played on turntables with higher tracking force back in the day, and sound perfectly fine today. A lot of tube records players and old changers tracked at 6+ grams. Vinyl is a lot tougher of a format than some people on the internet think. The blemishes in records are what make them attractive. It's not a format for people wanting crystal clear reproduction that sounds the same every time, digital formats are much better suited at that.

“So they made the whole DAMN PLATTER the strobe marks” A sudden burst of passion! Excellent and entertaining video sir! Awesome 😎

While these cheap turntables won't destroy records, they do cause severe damage after 100 playbacks. It all comes down to physics. A sharp needle vs soft vinyl. More tracking force and less than optimal shape of the tip = more damage over time. Check out the great video by jimboblivesforever. He actually tried it. So no, the "audiophiles" are not wrong, but they often exaggerate the problem.

If you want to verify the history of this mechanism, a great place to look is the Radio Shack catalogs. They seem to have been using BSR mechanisms on their budget turntables all along, and you can see when they switch from the older style BSR mechanism (the 70s style record changers with the start/stop lever in the corner, usually with a silver bulls-eye pattern on top) to the newer cost reduced version you had from 1984. There was also an in-between version for awhile. The 1982 catalog exclusively has the older 70s style BSR design for budget models, and more bespoke designs up the range. No hint of the newer mech yet. The 1983 catalog is slightly more interesting. The cheaper all-in-one tables (Clarinete 104, Clarinete 90, etc) still use the 70s BSR mech, same for the very cheapest standalone LAB-59, but the slightly more expensive LAB-75 and LAB-77 use a changer that looks like it's an in-between of the older design and the 1984 design. It borrows some elements, like the flusher style off/play switch from the older BSR, but has a minimalist footprint more similar to the newer model. It uses more fake chrome than the 1984 design but less than the older units. I think this might be a missing link in crappy turntable evolution. 1984 soldiers on with the same lineup on the lower end, so nothing of note here. 1985 replaces the LAB-75 and 77 with the LAB-79 and 85 changers. These look exactly like your 1984 style BSR, but configured to be a changer. They also included a platter mat. I did read somewhere that this was a BSR table rebadged as a Realistic product, so it seems that the 1984 BSR variant was also available as a changer. The 70s style BSR table was finally bumped off of the standalone LAB tables, making the new BSR the new bottom end, but it remained on some of the all-in-one Clarinete tables. Notably, the very cheapest Clarinete, the 116, has your non-changer 1984 BSR turntable mech at last. Given that they probably started manufacturing these a little before release, this date lines up, and these machines most likely first hit the market in '85. 1986 was mostly the same. By this point only one model was left with the 70s style BSR mech, the Clarinete-115. Some of the others like the 114 had more cut back designs reminiscent of the older model but without a changer. The slimmer profile, cheaper Clarinetes had the newer '84 non-changer variant. 1987: Realistic still marketed the changer style of the '84 variant, consolidated to just one table, the LAB-89, and somehow the 70s style BSR limped on in the highest end Clarinete. (I had no idea changers were still around this far into the 80s.) 1988: The LAB-89 changer is till there. The 70s style BSR is finally killed off in the Clarinete series, and it looks like they actually regressed to an even cheaper looking table for a bit. Notably, this time it recognizably has a red Chuo Denchi cartridge. 1989: That plucky LAB-89 changer is still holding on, and I must know if it survived into the 90s. The Clarinete series is reduced to one lonely model, the 122, which has the "even cheaper than BSR" mechanism with Chuo Denchi cart. 1990: The LAB-89 makes it one more year! Changers officially made it to the 90s, though I wonder how many actually sold. Maybe they had so much stock left over that they kept them in the catalog until they finally sold out, who knows. The Clarinete holds on with one last model, the 124, which has a mech that looks much closer to the 1988 style you have, but still slightly different; the table and tonearm are separated. Finally, in 1991 Radio Shack stops marketing changers for good. Only a handful of sad looking black plastic turntables remain. By 1993 there's only two left and they're getting shoved farther back in the catalog with tinier pics. It's down to a single lonely table in 1997 until the Realistic line was finally killed off, but they kept marketing budget tables even after this under the RCA badge. But at this point we're well into the age of Crosley tables.

This is the second time I've seen that Michael Fremer clip and it doesn't get any less melodramatic

Vinyl records weren't designed to be used a million times, but surely these 6+ gram tracking force players won't do it any good. The JVC L-E5 I use myself has a 1.3 gram tracking force. It does matter. Everything else, like plastic parts VS metal parts, stylus or the circuitry has no effect on the record. The stylus will damage the groove no matter what. You want a unlimited play medium, go with a CD, or better, just data off a memory storage device which can be copied forever. Vinyl wasn't reinvented because it's cheap, better sounding or somehow superior. It's fun and is supposed to be fun. So if someone has fun with a Crosley, then let them have fun. You want audio quality, you don't get vinyl records, but FLAC files on a Class A amplifier.

The turntable looks like the hull of the Enterprise

My parents had that same Panasonic model. It got a lot of use.

Well... I got a Magnavox turntable with Bluetooth which uses this kind of mechanism... oh look how they massacred the Magnavox!

A turn table design that is both used and scorned around the world that was designed by a guy in OKC? Very interesting indeed!

It's like with the recent cassette mechanisms that are all the same today.

Capetronic AFAIK was at least at one point a division of BSR. I know they made more than turntables and did contract manufacturing for lots of companies.

I used to work for BSR (Birmingham Sound Reproducers) making turntables at their factory in East Kilbride, Scotland in the 1970's.

Every time I see that clip of Michael Fremer, I die a little inside lol. Love the video as always, didn't know these mechanisms went back that far. You learn something new every day.

I saw the Picture on Twitter :). I have a Victroa cruiser but now have a Sharp RP-113 from a Salvation Army thrift store.

Fascinating! Informative! Educational! This made me take another look with a different perspective at all these cheaply made turntables with a ceramic cartridge. Though I do still think the genuine Chuo Denshi cartridge made in Japan sounds better than the clone from China, the sound quality you were able to get from each of these iterations was very pleasing!

'they realized people were complaining about the bad visibility of the strobe marks.. *so they made the whole damned platter the strobe marks*' one of my favorite quotes of all time

So the Crosley Cruiser is indeed the modern equivalent of a cheapo BSR changer. Even has its DNA!

18:13 Yo dawg we heard you liked strobe marks.

All roads lead back to BSR.

This is the best video you've ever made,those 1980's players bring back memories of Sears and K-Mart stereos.

Any bounce on this vid today from Techmoan's discussion of this mechanism?

The thing about these turntable mechanisms is that they have an authentic “vinyl sound”. From the cheapest Crosley or Victrola unit to turntables from quality brands like TEAC, you are going to hear a crisp and crackly reproduction of your records. This is normal and very common, especially in affordable turntables. Some people love the crackles and pops that vinyl offers because it seems more retro, while hardcore audiophiles like Vinyl Eyezzz recommend you buy a $450 Fluance turntable with several $100 amplifiers. Not all of us can afford that. Turntables like a Fluance, Denon, and the most expensive Audio Technica, all come with an even sturdier, higher quality needle than the red plastic ones found on the affordable turntables. People who compare vinyl to digitally remastered music, have remastered the music themselves (For The Record has explained this about his audio setup in a video of his) on their high end pre amps. I love my records and want them to sound good, but I don’t need them to sound THAT good. I currently am happy with my $290 TEAC turntable.

I have a very interesting variant of of this mechanism up in my attic right now. It is most similar to the 1984 version but marked Capetronic on the bottom. It actually has a magnetic cartridge on it and a built in pre-amp. Dates to around 1988-1989 and is basically new in box. When I tried it had a lot of wow and flutter so probably needs a new belt. Anyhow what makes it interesting is it’s a full changer. Has a bizarre looking spindle. It’s a Realistic Lab 89 if you want to look it up. Anyhow I was just going to throw it out at some point, but if you’re interested and would pay the shipping cost I’d give it to you. If not no big deal. Just thought I would mention it.

At least you don't have to pay $250 for a cartridge like my B&O Beogram from the 70s (hand me down from my dad) with these mechanisms!

Great find! And amazing to see the connection between a single man and millions of cheap record players.

My first ever "HiFi" system was an Amstrad branded all in one designed to look like a separates system I got for Christmas in around 1983/1984, it even came built into a cabinet with a glass door and record storage underneath. It had almost exactly the same mechanism as the BSR one but was branded Amstrad rather than BSR. I still have albums I played on that system back then and they still sound fine today on decent turntables because I have always looked after my records.

This is absolutely fascinating. Great video! 😁

Got an Ion turntable with that mechanism and adding a banpa cartridge (per your video) really classes up the sound. I also do the old-school trick of glueing a few coins off the back to lower the tracking force. The only thing I can't solve is needle talk. Some of my cheapies are so noisy I can listen to an album in a quiet room without the amp plugged in.