Cruel Intentions' Kathryn - Why She Wasn't the Real Villain 

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Sarah absolutely slayed this role, considering that she's mostly known for playing protagonists. Also, it's probably one of the only roles where she's a brunette, not a blonde. Kathryn is the most compelling character, since she tries to hide her true colours, and her lust for Sebastian, and can't help but feel sorry for her at the end, even if it's what she deserves.

I know this is off-topic, but can we just take a second to recognize that the costume design in this film is ICONIC.

I think that in a dark and twisted way, Kathryn did love Sebastian and the wager was a ploy to finally bed him without her giving into him first. But when he fell for Annette, she felt bitter and wanted to destroy him because in the end, she couldn't have him. This was an interesting video. I'd never thought about it from Kathryn's point of view before but she was always my favourite character in the movie.

One of the plot points I hate most in this move is when Kathryn calls Ronald and tells him that Sebastian hit her, leading to the confrontation when Sebastian loses his life. In the original cut of the film, Sebastian DOES hit Kathryn. Later, the director decided to remove the scene. The resulting message is that a young woman lies about domestic abuse and gets an innocent man killed because of it. Considering how it has become a mainstream narrative now that women lie about rape and abuse in order to "ruin the lives of men," this is such a gross, infuriating message to send, and I doubt SMG would have been okay with filming the scene if she knew how it would be butchered.

Kathryn Merteul Buffy Anne Summers Daphne Blake Helen Shivers Cici Cooper Sarah Michelle Gellar had such a chokehold on pop culture in the late 90's and early 00's with her iconic characters. She missed out on the role of Juliet in Romeo + Juliet because she was overbooked. Sigh. Hollywood of that era was weirdly sexist and didn't know what to do with her once she aged out of the teen icon bracket. Which is our loss as Queen had range as she showed on Buffy.

Ugh Sarah Michelle Gellar always being an icon, calling out Joss Whedon even back in 1999.

Kathryn was a villain in a movie consisting entirely of villains. She can't be "The Villain" only because everyone else was also the villain. From her point of view, it is unfair to single her out for her cruelty and manipulation when everyone else in her world is equally cruel and manipulative.

Truthfully I never thought she was worse than him. They are two sides of a crappy system. It was both of them hurting people on purpose. I don't think even reframing it as rage against the machine makes her blameless. Because misogyny sucks but hurting actual people who are just as stuck in the system as she is isn't a win against the patriarchy.

I think people miss a bit in why they think women especially love this character. The defining trait is not like oh she's a feminist icon, truly it's that we rarely get to see a female villain win in so many different ways. People love villains, see the joker, so it's not like oh she's a feminist and that's why I like her. It's because she's a bad ass villain who uses her femininity and womanhood in villainous ways which is just super fun and missing from many others in the villain genre. I think some may latch on to the fact that oh woman bad, therefore not portraying woman properly. But perhaps the feminist aspect is that woman can be good villains too just as equally as males can. It'll be cool to see women as villains in more interesting ways but this was and will always be such a delight to watch. Definitely never could fault her!

I would wear any of Catherine's clothes right now.

"I'm the Marcia Brady of the Upper East Side, and sometimes I want to kill myself" had always hit me a little too hard.

Cruel Intentions has always been about these double standards, even when it was a book called Les Liaisons Dangereuses. Great book, btw, and decent modernization!

I still think she is still the villain of the movie, your video only shows that she is just a more understandable villain

Cruel Intentions is easily in the top 10 of 90s teen movies.🙌 I remember my mother took me to see this movie, and during the part where Catherine picks up the cross necklace and says something to the effect of "I always look to Jesus for guidance", my mother says very matter of factly "There's cocaine in that necklace". I cracked up laughing and told her that she couldn't be right---BUT THEN later on in the movie Catherine opens up the necklace and snorts coke from it. I was laughing like Oh she was right!... then it quickly turned to but wait a minute... why and how would my mother know that?😯😂💀

Not really. She still is a villain in the same way Cersei is. Kathryn and Cersei both make astute observations about sexism and rail against it, but they rail against it only because they themselves have to deal with sexism, not because they care about other women suffering sexism or about sexism at all. If they could be that one exception who gets to act like how men in power get to do so, they'd have zero issues with the actual status quo. That being said, I do agree that there is an issue in the movie with how sex is only seen as acceptable when it's done for the sake of "love" rather than simply because it's pleasurable

The Take, I love what you guys are doing. Could you please do a video on this topic? The Pregnant Woman trope in the horror genre, such as: Women getting impregnated by aliens. Women turning into bloated hives for alien reproduction. A woman giving birth to a demonic child. A woman carrying a baby for an evil cult. Even men getting impregnated by an otherworldly seductress. Misogynist, sexist, rape culture, shock horror or just pushing a fear of aliens and demons? Is it possible to make a good horror/sci-fi movie without resorting to otherworldly beings impregnating women? Is it possible to make a story arc where the woman that was impregnated, is recovering from this mental scarring? Alien vs Predator: Requiem and Slither are all levels of wrong. Don't forget about Buffy The Vampire Slayer and The X-Files. (For anyone who reads this, I would like to know your thoughts)

There's an interesting Reese Witherspoon movie from around that time - Freeway. A lot to unpack in there. Perhaps intersection commentary in the form of Brooke Shields's casting/arc. Anyone else have thoughts?

Kathryn was always my favourite character! That speech she does is Iconic!!

Not to mention how in a deleted scene on the DVD, Sebastian actually did hit her before she called Ronald to tell him that. It seemed more like she genuinely wanted Ronald to come over to comfort her instead of manipulating him into attacking Sebastian.

A video on Pleasantville would be so interesting! Unpacking the symbolism, the colors, the characters development. The ones who stay behind and the ones who leave. Please make it!

Kathryn's character would make an interesting protagonist rather than an antagonist whose only role is getting in the way of a protagonist (Sebastian). She's always loyal to herself, aware of the things she enjoys and that's not what makes her bad. What makes her bad is how she perceives other people, which is a consequence of her having to pretend she's someone she isn't while others get to actually do what they love and be happy. I think it would be a cool character arc if she becomes friends with the kind of girl she despises (pure, virgin, naive) and she developed feelings for her. Of course, by that I don't mean that they have to fall in love necessarily, but that Kathryn and the girl form a bond where Kathryn tries to protect her from the social point of view that messed her up and the other girl teaches her to enjoy the things she likes without harming other people.

This is one of my absolute favourite movie thank you for this ❤️

Another great video from The Take! Just a side note about Pleasantville: For those who haven't seen it yet, it's a fantastic film and I strongly urge you to see it! It's mentioned in this video that the characters start to see colour because of sex, but that's not quite true (sex is part of it, sometimes, but definitely not the reason), it's more about expanding past the boundaries that others place on us (or finding a way of seeing ourselves in a whole different light, that we're so much more than we thought we could be). In fact, Reese's character in Pleasantville is having plenty of sex and gets frustrated that she can't see colour yet. The film is basically about people blossoming into themselves...and the pushback they receive from others who feel threatened by their freedom. It starts as a light comedy and very cleverly morphs into a much deeper, meaningful film.

This is STILL my favorite movie and has the best ending scene/song ever! You can't argue with me on that! The song they picked was PERFECTION and such a-- AGH! I just love this movie lol

I think you can sympathize with Kathryn's role in society for trying her hardest to be an upstanding, professional, confident woman who also happens to be sexually active while also seeing she is the villain. You can be angry at the world and the patriarchy but not be manipulative and fuelled by power. Sebastian should not be forgiven so easily of course, his role as a conniving man who doesn't face much consequences is worthy of criticism. But I think they're both villains at the end of the day.

There are so many adaptations of Dangerous Liaisons; I'd love to watch a remake with Kathryn as the hero and Sebastian as the villain.

The problem with your position is the "Two Wrongs" fallacy. Just because life has in some way dealt you a raw deal, that doesn't let you off when you are cruel to others. She did what she did to other people, and she knew it was hurtful. The consequences of her actions are hers to face, and blaming others or environment or society standards doesn't change a thing.

Anyone thinking Sebastian is the villain not Kathryn is clearly too woke. That's not a compliment. Kathryn doesn't ever get the guy not because she's sexually experienced, it's because she's evil & manipulative. She's fake & cold. She's just enjoying being evil. Other than when Sebastian seems to take joy in misery of those like the biotch therapist, he more seems like he's just trying to make the most of life without care of others. He doesn't seem like his life goal is being evil like her. He seems more lost and bored with people around him. This video screams over woke 2020 Twitter mob man hating bs. 'Only side with women they're innocent and men are evil' the tone of 2019-2023. Which is sexist AF btw. If Katherine got the guy she wouldn't change. He did. End of story. Oh yeah & ffs stop with the msm narrative of 'hes an abuser because she didn't say no' it's tired.

Stop the cap; Kathryn was most definitely a villain in this movie. So was Sebastien. They were both vile, cruel people; however, Sebastien figured out the errors of his ways and wanted to be clean with the person he fell in love with. Everything that happened with Cecil was all of Kathryn’s doing. Sebastien even said in the beginning, you do realize that we are about to ruin an innocent girl's life. This is not an excuse for his participation. She was the ringleader because she was jealous of someone else finding real love and not being chosen, so she reacted the way she did with Sebastien. Wasn’t the fact that she was in love with her brother and didn’t choose her? She was trying to. She couldn’t stand to see someone else happy. As you said, misery loves company, so at the end of the day, she made him feel miserable and unsure about his path to Clarity with his feelings. And no, she was not catching feelings for Ronald. She saw that Cecile was falling in love with him and wanted to take everything away from her, then use Ronald to beat up her brother. It is very much true that women, especially even in high society, were forced to conform to survive; however, she chose to be conniving, manipulative, and cruel and did whatever she could to keep her reputation and show no remorse. Annette came to talk to her at the funeral. She buried herself and hopefully will be able to get some help. Maybe she will heal… but not that she’s not the hero, and yes, she was wrong and a villain.

How can someone say her character is “feminist” ? Feminism is supposed to be about women empowering eachother, supporting eachother but her character destroyed women too.. it would have been different if she just targeted the awful male characters but she didn’t, she legit destroyed other women & that’s the opposite of feminism.. if u think destroying other women is “feminism” then u might as well say u support the patriarchy. Like make it make sense yall

I get what you’re trying to go for here but it’s dangerous to justify the rage of an elite wealthy white woman when people of colors rage is still being questioned. they’re not the same it’s starting on hers is a bad luck

I remember watching this movie and imagining myself as Kathryn, the cruel seductress. I thought she was so cool and, as a brunette who had low self-esteem issues about her hair color at the time, I loved that a brunette was the hot sexy one even if she didn't get the guy at the end. Though, now that I'm older, I can see the problematic behavior of the movie portraying Kathryn as evil because of her sexuality which was similar to Laurie in That 70s Show. Which was why Sex and the City was ahead of its time because the confident sexually active Samantha was actually a loyal and true friend. Though I don't think we should stop writing the evil vixen character type. I think, instead, we should write stories that have both a Kathryn and a Samantha, show how sexually active women can be good or evil instead of virginal heroines and sexually active villainess. Actually, how about virginal and sexually active heroes that are both male and female fighting virginal and sexually active villains that are both male and female? Write sexuality as a social construct instead of a question of morality.

I watched this movie for the culture a while back, and I remember being really annoyed that Anette had to be with a terrible playboy 😅😂 the ending was far from satisfying too, why did he get such a great redemption arc? Couldn't get into it

It's not that Kathryn is thrown over for the virginal "perfect" girls, it's that she is not being authentic to herself. She is strong and enjoys sex, and if she had leaned into it, she would have been extremely powerful, because she is very charismatic. Sebastian is authentic to who he is, an entitled playboy with no regrets, and is therefore viewed with a more forgiving lens. Being inauthentic creates inner tension, and that is what destroys Kathryn in the end. Actually, being tyrannical and uncaring of others' feelings destroys them both

I think we defend Sebastian because he can fall in love, and Katheryn -in the other hand- apparently can't. If she really loved Kurt she would have done something as redeeming as Sebastian did (by giving his journal to Annette), instead of going after Cecile like she did. She didn't admit she wants to be tamed by Kurt' standards like Sebastian admited to want to be tamed by Annette's morals. The unfair thing here is that Katheryn lost the race of finding love, Sebastian did find it first, but not because he is more lucky or because "he is more benevolent than she will ever be", but actually because he experienced less emotional limitations: 1) he doesn't resent life as she does by dealing with the preasure to be a pure christian lady (when she's not) and 2) cuz of the preasure to be rich like her "gold-digger" mother. These two factors held her back in the race of searching and identifying true love, Sebastian never had to grow up hiding his sexual freedom and he always been wealthy because his dad is a man in a men's world; therefore Sebastian is more mentally stable than Katheryn to admit he wants to try out being christian instead of a nihilist for the person he loves. A woman like Katheryn (or any woman in that elitist society) is psichologicly inhabilitated to step out of her ego, try out a lover's morals, face the risks from that achievement or mistake. She's unable to even consider she's interested in that adventure. The day women get to be praised by their sexual conquests there won't be these dark type of Katherynes out there no more, they'll be able to find love (like Sebastian did) before they end up killing someone.

Fantastic analysis! I'm just confused about 21:21 -wouldn't Michelle Pfeiffer in Dangerous Liaisons be the "light woman" to contrast with Glenn Close's character in that, instead of Anne Archer in Fatal Attraction? I do like how it shows that Glenn Close is contrasted with the "light woman" in at least two movies

I loved Kathryn’s bedroom colours I begged my Nan to let me have the colours. She was the best female character in the movie without a doubt

I mean, yes I get it but I also have to say that I have a very tough time watching this movie because I cringe at everything.

Love the movie, completely disagree with your analysis. Katherine is basically angry because she’s not allowed to be sexual without judgement. However, she turns around and shames Cecile for being innocent? She’s a hypocrite. She really just needed to take the L and keep it pushing. Katherine and Sebastian are two of a kind. No need to pick a side here…both people are f’d up.

They totally based Catherine’s character from Vampire Diaries off of Kathryn from Cruel Intentions

One of my all-time favorite movies

The "cross necklace" is actually called a Rosary, intended for prayers honoring the Virgin Mary in Catholic tradition.

I agree for the most part. But her issues were with the men. Yet, she took it out on other ladies that she views as “innocent little twits” which she’s not…which pretty much puts her on the same level as the men.

well using sex to manipulate IS terrible though for anyone. being manipulative is terrible in general. however most ppl don't appreciate honesty

Finally, someone defending Katherine!!!!

I just want to note that this characyer wouldn't be iconic without Sarag Michelle Gellar.

Almost every villain has some kind of justification for their actions; rarely are they evil just for the sake of it. Even if Kathryn makes a valid point, it doesn't excuse her antagonistic behavior. In fact, given the character's manipulative tendencies, one has to question how much of her "Marcia-fucking-Brady" speech is sincere versus just another performance of hypocrisy. And if she seriously believes she does "act like Mary Sunshine 24/7" (not even close), that would only show evidence of a personality disorder.

Kathryn is 💯 the villain in this movie. The fact that she has justifiable motives doesnt change the fact that she is a villain, willing to destroy other people's lives because of her own unhappiness. I think she justifiably deserved to be exposed. Its a glorious triumph for the 2 young women whose lives Kathryn tried to destroy for her own amusement. Now, Sebastian is a tricky character, and one that perhaps hasnt aged as well as the others. Sebastian is the "bad boy" trope. In countless books, movies and TV shows, the bad boy is glorified, often portrayed as being outwardly cruel as a means to protect his inner sensitivity. This character trope often needs the love of a virginal woman to let down his guard and eventually achieve redemption. Why is this trope problematic? Because it teaches young women to put up with horrid behavior, whether its lies, cheating or abuse. It reinforces the idea that its the woman's responsibility to change a bad boy's behavior, and that it is noble and healthy to stick around and endure lies and deceit for the sake of someone else's redemption. In reality, Anette should have run the eff out of dodge as soon as Sebastian broke her heart. Most men like Sebastian dont change. And if they ever do, it certainly is not a woman's job to wait around until they get their act together.

This was one of my friends and my favorite movies when we were teens in the late 90s and early 2000s.

I literally watched this for the first time 2 nights ago after it being on my to-watch list for years! Great analysis - thanks for the vid!

double standard clearly "Cruel Intentions' Kathryn - Why She Wasn't the Real Villain" and calling Tom in 500 days of summer the real villain, this channel is disgusting, hate speech goes both ways ...baby

An interesting perspective to be honest.

Women just seem to never do anything right in the eyes of the society 😤

Cruel Intentions was (and still is) always one of my fave movies growing up. My friends and I would rewatch it over and over :D

she’s the villian…stop it. bro…yall love absolving women of EVERYthing. she is racist, manipulative, and classist…like…yall wild

Unpopular opinion but I actually liked Cruel Intentions 2.

I never been seen as virginal because I developed early. I felt like Kathryn even though I wasn't as cruel as her

The way I've always understood Pleasantville is that it wasn't about the sex It wasn't about sex Because Rene's character doesn't come back to color until she turns down sex to read a book What's going on in the movie, is when people change or a new element is entered into that world, that's when the color comes in It's all about personal evolution, cultural evolution and how people react to that

I don't believe that Sebastian and Kathryn can only be themselves with each other (9:45). It IS TRUE for Kathryn but not for Sebastian. We see in the movie that Sebastian is praised for his mostly "open" reputation and he has pawns that know exactly who he is. He is not trying to act angelic to make those pawns act like Kathryn (mentioned at 11:17 and few other places). She puts in more work because she has to act like a "lady" when she takes revenge. It takes more work to spread unseen poison rather than throw an open bunch. Other than that I really enjoyed this analysis. Thank you

I agree. Women's value especially in relatively conservative countries is based on "purity" and virginity.

I don't have a problem with Kathryn being portrayed as the piece of shit she was. My problem is that we WEREN'T supposed to see Sebastian as a bigger piece of shit because he fell in love with some girl.

I feel whomever wrote chuck and Blair saw this movie and was like “the two horrible people should get together”

TF did I just see at 4:30?? Been many years since I've seen this movie. Pretty sure that dude looked totally unconscious.

Kathryn has all the privileges in the world. One can hardly feel sorry for her.

Great video- good for you for saying it! Kathryn isn't the only "bad guy" and she SHOULD be angry about some things that happen

Loved this video so much! This might be my favorite!

There is a very strange trend towards hailing villains as the new heroes. Being powerful, ruthless, cruel and occasionally showing a glimpse of emotion does not redeem a character. Neither does a sad backstory, it can only add some context to how a character became as bad as they are. Character complexity is of course important, but I think it is more believable to focus on the "darker" sides or moments of ostensibly good and kind characters than to try and declare manipulative, cruel and narcissistic characters as the new heroes. Katheryn was the real villain (not the only one - Sebastian was, too), which does not take away from the fact that she was a complex and troubled character.

TL;DR -- Annette isn't a Good Girl, and the movie ending flattens her to that as a lazy, saintifying contrast to the also oversimplyfied as an "evil whore" Kathryn. This movie's last act is badly written and has gotten confused on its tropes usage and characterization. . Longer Read : One of the annoying things about this movie that never gets pointed out, in comparing Annette to Kathryn (the Good Girl to the Villain) is that Annette is rewarded with Sebastian's car at the end of the movie -- . (which is totally not how the distribution of a deceased person and especially a legal minor person's estate goes, btw, and I highly doubt Sebastian thought to write a Will out or that his parents wouldn't have contested it but instead would reward this total rando "true love and beloved" girl with their notoriously promiscuous son's vehicle) . -- for being not the victim but for being the Good Girl. *But she isn't a Good Girl.* Because she gets called this, but the film flattens her character's "goodness" in the end to mean sexually pure, aka The Virgin. But she betrays her own much vaunted principles to sleep with a guy she barely knows (which in a classic horror story would end with her getting killed for betraying The Virgin's role as a chaste maiden). . Her actions at the end show she can be just as devious as Kathryn in pursuit of a goal, should she choose to be. She was trope-rewarded at the end of the film as would be a Good Girl (gets the car, the sympathy, the self-righteous air) but arguably written and acted as an Innocent Victim (her goodness being related to her choices of not [usually] being a lying manipulator rather than her sexual purity). . Film!Annette isn't a "good girl" to Kathryn's Evil Whore Temptress. She's an innocent victim who gets her revenge on the only person left to enact it on -- which is the still-living Kathryn. Because Sebastian doesn't survive (tragically, in the film, as opposed to being the cause of his own demise in the inspiration-source book) to either live up to his promises and make amends, or fail to. . Annette shouldn't be compare-contrasted as a Good Girl to Kathryn's evil slut. She should be discussed as victim-turned-victor in comparison to Kathryn's victor (high social standing and reputation) turned victim (of her own schemes) and even double-victim (in a way, because of how some of her actions and insecurities were born of society's very real judgement on sexually active and confident women, as well as her apparently absurdly absent and neglectful parents) -- and in light of how all the women in the story were placed in disadvanteous positions compared to the men. Who, while in a better less contrained position than the women, were themselves still struggling with their own social constraints... largely with the exception of film!Sebastian. Who had considerably more freedom in terms of finances, social standing, and reputation-plot armor (men are studs, women are whores) than the rest of them and conveniently grew a conscience at the end of the story but never had to live up to (or fail to) his plans to change for the better, because he died.

But the difference between her and Sebastian is that Sebastian at the end saw the error in his ways, and she did not

she wasnt a teen on the novel, maybe you should read the source material.

You’re oversimplifying. I think Kathryn has a lot more “fans” than you think… even back when this movie came out. I think the only thing that would have made this movie better would have been to introduce more male characters. Showing the female power of controlling who gets to have sex at the end of the day would have helped show that most men aren’t just running around doing whatever they want. Sebastian and Court are part of the top 1% of men that +80% of women try to get. I do think the fact that publishing Sebastian’s journal posthumously made Kathryn “the bad guy” was stupid. In reality most people would have been blown away by her power, whether used for good or evil.

Kathryn's "Marcia Brady of the upper East side" speech really said it all.

She was petty and manipulative. But also very attractive at least 😅

I preferred Katherine over Annette and Cecilia because she seemed like she had a better internal life. I also grew up during the heyday of Purity culture so Katherine was iconic because she embraced her sexuality and owned it. I remember cheering when Sebastian died as I viewed him as a rapist then as I do now. Edit: ironic that Reese Witherspoon played a virgin when she was three months pregnant with Ryan's baby in real life.

You guys really go outta the way to defend female characters, even ones who are the goddamn devil

This soundtrack was so perfectly and wonderfully 90s.

Fantastic video

Again you have taken the point too far in the opposite direction, missed so much of the point that everything has a purpose in a fictional story, and thought that the point you’re making has never been made before or the real point was lost on everyone. The truth is your videos are becoming their own trope: cultural guilt and not thinking that maybe the very point you say is wrong or right, good or bad, was the actual point all along.

I loved this movie when it came out, and always felt alone in my liking. I'm glad to have found others who appreciate it. Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how much of Gossip Girl was stolen from this movie???

I grew up in the 90s was a teenager and l love this movie so much. Kathryn's speech on good forbid I enjoy sex....is just as moving today. But there is a truth and issues raised about feminism.

Gossip Girl probably came from this story.

ITS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING (TALKING ABOUT THE TITLE; HAVENT WATCHED YET

Would be incredibly interesting if Kathryn was given a movie exploring the characters next phaser in her life.

In this movie, Selma was the ditzy one, with Reese being the mature, grounded one. By "Legally Blonde", they'd basically switched roles!

The fact that Kathryn didn’t grow up rich is key to her character. She is clearly intelligent and resourceful and has leadership skills. She wants desperately to maintain a position of power in her upper class social circle. She wasn’t born into this position so she feels she needs to maintain it by scheming. However, she has unwittingly absorbed two messages that are at odds with one another: a woman must wield her sexuality as a weapon to get ahead in this world, but on the other hand only chaste, agreeable women are respected and sought after by the men who Kathryn believes she needs in her corner to get ahead. As much as Kathryn rages against the patriarchal double standards in her world, she doesn’t seem to believe that she can maintain her position or climb the social ladder on her own without having to manipulate a man to help her. So she flits between the roles of seductress, good girl, damsel in distress for the benefit of the men in her life, all while raging inside and not fully embracing who she is or has the potential to be.

I loved Kathryn. Her clothes, her manipulation. As a character she was so fun.

Kathryn will forever be a feminist icon due to her "god forbid I exude confidence and enjoy sex" speech.

Personally, I think they killed Sebastián for the sole purpose of making Kathryn look like the villain of the story. Because if he lived, there would be different feelings to this movie

I always liked Kathryn's sharp, straight to attitude when it came to reality and sex. What I didn't like was how her character still fell on that old views regarding women - women don't use force, they use poison. Kathryn wants to get back at her old boyfriend but instead of doing something to him she pulls a third person into it, namely Cecile and by ruining her, she will ruin Kurt. So Kathryn still fell on that stereotype even though her scheming talent would put the Joker to shame.

"I'm the Marsha f**king Brady of the Upper East Side and sometimes I want to kill myself" perfectly encapsulates her character in such a poignant way.

I understand Kathryn's rage...I don't justify her actions, but I understand🤷🏻‍♀️

She’s suppose to be 16?! Honestly seen this so many times but it’s so trippy revisiting this likeeee what 16 year old dresses and acted like that?! 😂😭💀

Fun fact: SMG and Selma Blair are still friends, after all those years. Underrated movie

I think that both Kathryn and Sebastian are villains, I never bought that he was "redeemed" just because he fell in love and did one good (if huge) act. They're both messed up teenagers full of pain and hate that take it out on others. I do think Kathryn was more understandable for me even if she went heavy on the internalized misogyny, but her fury makes sense even to today. I think the movie does a disservice to the complexities of this story by trying to make Sebastian redeemed because it's more interesting that he still has a lot of work to do and never got the chance to change. Also by publishing his diary people saw the real Kathryn, but they also saw the real Sebastian, so all the horrible acts he did are out there as well. It's a great movie, I still love watching it even now. Great vid! Kathryn IS a villain though her actions hurt people and no excuse is good enough for the damage she assisted in.

I always sympathized with her more than Sebastian - when younger I was a bit infatuated with this movie and watched it somewhat often - I wonder if you could find something to talk about with Cruel Intentions 2, which was hilariously bad and weird, it felt like it appealed to all the things I wasn't interested in from the first and that was it - it was also meant to be a pilot essentially for a Cruel Intentions series but that got killed off so became what it is - there was a third too but it was basically just softcore swinger smut and unrelated to the other 2

“For some people she never was” you’re right abut that. I always loved her and despised Sebastian. When I was younger, I thought it was just bc she was beautiful and smart and powerful but now I see that there was actual reasoning behind it. Sebastian’s “redemption” just never sat right with me, he always seemed much worse than Kathryn but he still got to have a hero’s ending.

Her anger at double standards was valid, but her manipulative, covert vengeance wasn't. She was wicked. Sex without love is one thing, but sex with the sole intention of controlling, conquering, belittling, and humiliating others is... cruel.

Both Sebastian and Kathryn were manipulative villains. Sebastian's 'redemption' toward the end, wasn't particularly compelling. He enjoyed toying with others as much as she did, but I don't accept that her behaviour was a mere response to double standards in her life. She was also apathetic to the suffering of innocent people, and even quite enjoyed it. None of that is justified or has anything to do with societal double standards. She was narcissistic and mean spirited. It was an interesting video, but the argument was tenuous at best.

This is why a show from her perspective would have been great. NBC was so wrong in not greenlighting it.