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@kalunda While I might agree with the principle about returning artifacts to their native nations, there is a question of if the artifacts are better off there, considering the lack of budget and corruption within Indian institutions which has led to poor ratings on accuracy, maintenance and presentation from neutral groups like UNESCO and the National Museum of Natural History burning down because it was poorly maintained and the sprinkler system was entirely for show, which is a fairly common story in India. Not to mention the current government's political biases and how that may affect preserving or funding the preservation of these artifacts, within my lifetime Hindu nationals burned down a mosque and started a riot that killed thousands of Muslim Indians. More recently the court handed over all of the land to the same Hindu nationals. There is also a genuine question of how legal some ownership is and where it came from, not everything is from the Empire stealing it, some is from the museum buying it from the legal and rightful owner. Most of the exhibits in say the National Museum in New Delhi were purchased privately by the museum. The rest are gifts or loans. The promoting racism part is just ignorant garbage. IF you wanted to have a real conversation about things being stolen then use logic and reasoning, not hate filled lines fed to you by a politician or conspiracy site.
@Krishna's Yoddha Go back to the land which you claim to be treasuring so much - every single of you, hypocrits. And build a civilised state, which would treat its people with respect, let alone the historical treasures. Only then, your treasures might follow .
I’ve never been to British Museum yet! Actually after watching this wonderful documentary film, I’m really so keen on visiting here! I hope to have the chance after the difficult time, if everything is good.
This topic is fascinating - have always wanted to see the texts with my own eyes- too bad it's impossible now to get to the exhibit from abroad. Nonetheless, love watching Imma Ramos who is just stunningly beautiful, smart and articulate
Hahaha Goat's Head Soup? My parents actually had a copy of this, I gave it away as a teenager, not knowing what I had. I'm still not a big Rolling Stones fan, but it would have been nice to have anyway, if only to sell (more of a Led Zeppelin / Pink Floyd guy.)
I have only just seen this excellent video, but am glad to have visited the exhibition in November 2020. I went knowing probably worse than nothing about Tantra, and left with lasting respect for what its adherents created. My plan to return for a second visit was thwarted by the ensuing government lockdown. Ms Ramos's clear and well researched book of the exhibition, 'Tantra', is the only such book I have ever read from cover to cover.
I am a Bengali Indian resided in Bengal and indeed Tantrical philosophy like the women leading as godess is a popular theme of life here. And you did excellent research and showered perfect details on everything. Keep up the great work. People should not get misled with surface view of things but should dive a bit deep and know it. Btw the word "Tan" in Tantra means Body in Sanskrit but I think you said something else.
@@MsArijitdas mantra - man diye ja karjo(Work done by mind) Jantra- Jan ba machine diye ja karjo(Work done by machine) Tantra- Tanu ba Sorir diye ja karjo (Work done by Body)
Interesting to see the turtle and the snake shown in the lower chakras in one presentation, because in combination they represent xuan wu in one Daoist tradition connected to Wudangshan. The parallels of visual metaphers (possibly as part of the journey of Buddhism from India to China) between some cultures is always interesting to see - esoecially since xuan wu has female and male incarnations and is warrior-god and a shen of medicine at the same time. Very interesting presentation all around. Thanks for this. Really loking forward to get to Lobdon and the British Museum again.
thanks for telling this detail!! as a student of art history i find the travels of imagery in central to east asia most interesting and deserving more exploration!
Amazing, interesting and yet so far from my reality. Spanning ages, it is fortunate to have this available on youtube, and be able to re-watch it again at my own pace. As for Kali not being demonic I'm still wondering why Yudishtira, after his apocalyptic vision of the future explains "it is the age of Kali, the black time". But that is with Indian culture and philosophy, it is veiled in multiple layers of non-western understanding. Thanks to the British Museum and Miss Ramos for lifting some of these veils here.
Perhaps not all destruction is not necessarily demonic. After all, we have Brahma Vishnu Shiva, Creator Preserver Destroyer, aspects, and all of them are holy. . Interesting topic, thanks for the thoughts...
Age of kali and goddess kali is totally different. They are also spoken and written differently in any indian language. Using english alphabet is creating this confusion.
@@soumyabrataroy4274 Thank you so much for clarification Soumyabrata! This is new for me, and I'm as yet only scratching the surface of India's rich but complex culture and history.
Never thought I'd be the one to criticize anyone who uses the term "voluptuous nudity" in such a relaxed cheery manner, but I think this overview lends itself to confusing Buddhist, Hindu and various yogic traditions. Their goals differ, radically, as do their views of tantric practice and energy. I respect the effort to strip the Western colonial patriarchic interpretations from these practices and images; but offering an introduction that does not discriminate between, histories, intention and varieties of practice confounds what may seem similar images and practices, but are quite distinct. Perhaps the distinctions are drawn out in other presentations. Wonderful production values and presentation nonetheless. Thanks.
I agree and this academic style somehow endorses a limited and false view. Pretty soon the Americans will canibalise it and start their own new commercially motivated movement.
This really was great. I look forward to reading up on some of the deities. Hinduism, Yoga, Tibet. I'd trust a Lama over a politician any day of any life. 👌🏻
@@neilkamalseal3413 Cheers pal ✌🏻. I've got a few books around here someplace. Courtesy of the Hare Krishnas. My favourite book though is the James malinson critical edition of the Shiva Samhita. I always loved the Mantras. I'm up in Glasgow 🤣 it was the Shiva Mantra I started singing that fit. I didn't have a bloody clue, but it felt like a part I never knew was missing that I'd found. When I did look into the God aspect. Shiva the destroyer, host of raging parties, God of union, Tigers, Snakes, Om, Swastika, Trident he's got a bongo and he dances into trance. Oh and the God of Kush. We've gone from strength to strength 💪😊. Hope your well cheers for the msg
@@krismontykrismonty Oh lord, you connected so much without any physical connection. I believe you are in great hands. Well once you complete your theory, I welcome you to the subcontinent, India atleast once in a lifetime. It can be overwhelming at first but I guess you will manage just fine.😉 Have a great day.
I very much enjoyed and appreciated this video, thank you. (You got my appreciation and relief just for pronouncing 'dissection' correctly - ie with the first syllable as 'diss-', rather than the increasingly common and incorrect 'die-'!!!)
We were told a different story about Kali standing on Shiva by grandma. In this version, Kali becomes so immersed in war, slaying demons, that she cant stop. Nobody is capable of stopping an enraged Kali, and there is a risk of her destroying the world. So the gods and mortals go to Shiva, her husband as a last resort. Shiva doesn't stop her directly, instead he lays down on her path. Kali, without noticing anything steps on his chest, looks down and regrets it. Thats why her tongue is out. She comes to her senses and the world is saved. Honest confession: my family is Shaivite. Maybe the Shaivites and Shaktas follow different versions of the story, just my guess.
Housewives with Steak-knives... hehehe! I never really knew much about Kali beyond Indiana Jones. I knew the movie is pulp, but I couldn't figure out how this scary goddess could be anything but demonic? This series is very enlightening. Edit: The musical instruments made from bones are still a bit too macabre for me, though.
It is MEANT to make you deeply, deeply uncomfortable, though. Any true understanding of difficult, new knowledge is accompanied by discomfort. Just like the abstractions of calculus will make your head spin before you are truly able to use it as a tool to understand the motion of planets and atoms, macabre reminders of human impermanence like bones from the crematorium are meant to shake you out of the comfortable cocoon of your body-centrism and your ego.
Well, that goddess is not demonic. She surpasses demonic. She is the creator of everything, mother of everything. She is black hole and garland of shining stars, all of them. She created gods, demi gods, demons, humans and all other known or unknown life form. And when she sees they are turning cancerous, she devours them. Be that Satan himself or the holiest of god. She is mother of all.
How do all those pieces of rare relics from all over the world end up in the country that has "colonized" a good chunk of the world? They surely were all gifts given by the grateful natives. Ok, that was enough sarcasm for a comment, I'm out
Miss Ramos, ( hope that’s correct) fab, presentation...This seems a dark form of spiritualism .. skulls and death ... ? You can see why the Victorians would have been freaked out ....
Sorry for barging in. I would like to explain a few things if you think dark spirituality too. The basis of tantra is that there is nothing to be differentiated. God has created all so who are we to judge. We all get happy and wanna touch and cuddle when a baby is born, but shy away, or have fear of death, dead bodies. But if we detach our social, emotional and psychological stigma and see it philosophically, it is just a process. So is eating, drinking, sleeping or having sex, same taking birth and leaving body. We should be indifferent about the life process and embrace it all. Thats why we see tantrics going to extremes( in our eyes) because they have shed their stigmas. They see everything as one. We are bearing various stigmas so we wanna cuddle a cute baby but fear death. Post instagram about food we ate but shy away from speaking about sex. Its just human social nature that tantra practitioners have shed.
unfortunate thing is, the whole western culture see Tantric stuff as a way of sexual gratitude or satisfaction, but in reality it is a core spiritualism. In fact it has nothing to do with religion either. Its just the whole thing is symbolically represented. In an attempt to show the harsh reality, the inevitable truth, and so work towards attaining moksha (liberation, enlightenment)
What if if was "hedonistic?" Hedonism exists all over the world and people can opt out or opt in, hopefully, most of us at will. I embrace heathenism, but not hedonism, so suffice it to say, I subscribe to a live and let live philosophy and when necessary, separate yourself from what you deem as "unclean and immoral." I certainly do. Good luck to all on your spiritual and physical journey. May you be wise.
I would prefer not to mix modern politics with subversive tradition of any religion {all religions have subversive methods cloaked from lay believers just as modern institutions use transparency & coercive power together} because modern ideology does not respect either conventional / traditional or it's subversive modes.
Thank you for this lovely guide. I’ts a bit of a glaring omission that you mentioned nothing at all about the methods and materials of construction nor the craftsmen and women who created them. No mention of contemporary traditional artists practicing in this tradition. Perhaps that is beyond the scope of this video.
It’s a 20 minute video... did you want the history of Tantra or the archeological nitty gritty? I think your last statement is correct- beyond the scope. Do some of your own research if interested.
Female empowerment and colonial opression in one bottle. So are we now doomed to view history and cultures only through the prism of trendy topics? I remember when Tutankhamun exhibition was about Tutankhamun and Ancient Egypt, and not "Totalitarian Regimes and Religious Extremism in Amarna period of Ancient Egypt"
Rather on the contrary, presenting these topics within historical context is a welcome step forward. The days when random topics were presented as fortuitous or "absolute" phenomena removed from their context are long past. This exhibition is magnificent and far more illuminating than a mere formal description of tantrism would have been. But I get your perspective: "What is Tantra?" is indeed in itself a topic that can be treated differently. But a museum can do many things: this one chose to treat its history. It doesn't say how much emphasis is put on the topic itself. But the all encompassing treatment here is quite exceptional: intriguing, most relevant to today's audiences and our civiluzation. I wish I could visit it !
@@raminagrobis6112 on the contrary, they lift the subject out if its historical context and try to glue it to trendy contemporary topics, like BLM(read anti-colonialism) and women empowerment. Yea, maybe it makes subject more accesible, but it's where marketing sips into proper academia. And the main objective of marketing is to sell to maximum number of consumers(i.e. lowest common denominators) not to educate and enlighten. That's how history and culture becomes even more distorted and unfathomable. It should also be pointed out that distorting history to suit current agenda of political powers is one the most popular tools used in propaganda. And you don't have to look back farther than 20th century to see to what it could lead.
@@yanikkunitsin1466 Do you actually find this applies to the exhibition we're talking about here? Based on what she's describing, do you actually find her treating the event as serving a trendy or feminist or whatever agenda? Honestly? If you've seen the exhibition, you might know things that I don't. But based on the video only, I found her presentation extremely factual and not biased to the extent you're seeing (or seem to see). Of course there have been such instances here and there: these topics lend themselves to be used for defending philosophies or social movements that have only peripheral relevance. It's not acceptable to do so, but it seldom happens anyway. Unfortunately, I finf your second post quite revealing: you seem to be the most biased of the two (or three here). I prefer to stick to facts and not let myself get carried away with wild guesses and prejudices. Again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using "trendy" topics to attract people to exhibition. I worked for many years in popular efucation on natural sciences in parks, and this approach is based on sound pedagogy and psychology. One has to build bridges to grab the interest of the "masses". Strictly academic formats just don't work. By doing so, one must be pretty short-viewed and misguided to think attracting people to a serious theme using popular names or events amounts to corrupting or degrading the subject at hand. You''re either an elitist or a fool or both. I think you might be using false equivalencies here. Using trendy language or aspects of a subject does not ipso facto mean that you're actually using the theme of an exhibition to promote those trendy aspects. She's mentioned Mick Jagger as one instance of a popular figure connecting with tantrism, true. But she did so as an example of a celebrity contributing to make a topic known in popular culture, and even worse, in an erroneous way. She clearly states that Tantrism is not merely an epicurian or erotic form of Buddhism, which is the false idea that people like Jagger and many others communicated about it. I wish I would go and watch that exhibition. And I wish that you'd open your mind just a tad more to the real world.
@@raminagrobis6112 so you don't view civil unrest on racial grounds and global rise of nationalism of recent times as something important? Problem is when people are presented with history construed in such a way so as to confirm to their belief system and to play on feelings of historical injustice or national exclusivity, the world does not exactly becomes a more peacefull and safer place to be in. And such contributions, no mater how small, just kindles the already brightly burning fire while providing absolute minimum means of understanding other cultures and historical periods
Very nice tour indeed. I still have problems with any religious story where moral statements like "there is no difference between good and bad, between human and divine" are preached.
In essence, this is what is known as "non-duality". From a human perspective, we exist in what we perceive to be a dualistic "reality". Here's an interesting piece which explores this further: www.theconversation.org/archive/nonduality.html
@@gajones76 thanks for the link to that essay. I am afraid clarity on the distinction between good and bad is psychologically essential. However, I agree that whether a person is good or bad is quite another question. The desire for learning to become doers of good is there deep down in our conscious reality. Therefore, religions that discourage striving for moral goodness are really worrisome. Striving for power without striving for good is a shortcut to great psychological misery.
@@AndrasDNagy-bs5dc I’m not sure which religions you’re referring to, but in Buddhism for example, there are very long lists of precepts for anyone wishing to engage in spiritual practice. Not to mention the Bodhisattva vows that compel one to seek enlightenment for the sake of all beings, not for one’s own selfish purposes. This is because as mundane beings we need to be guided not to create more suffering for ourselves and for others through our actions, words and thoughts. So yes, you’re absolutely correct that for most of us this distinction is essential. However by gradually eradicating these hindrances and ignorance we can reveal the divine aspect which is spoken of as “one taste”, ie non-dualistic, unchanging. So in that ultimate divine sense there is no good or evil, male or female, life or death, etc. As you correctly point out, religious practices are certainly open to misinterpretation and manipulation, as has been proven countless times throughout history.
@@gajones76 do you mean that some gradual activity will get you to monism by some sort of cleansing and ultimately removing the chance of doing bad completely? I am afraid we always have the choice to do bad things if we want to decide to do so, therefore we just can not ever get from dualism to monism. Secondly, this kind of religiosity presented in the video is not really about any sorts of dualism leading a way to monism.
@@AndrasDNagy-bs5dc One central tenant of these religions is the working of cause an effect. Every action with mind, speech or body has an effect. So these practitioners were (and are) very careful to act with awareness, going from negative to positive to enlightenment. Also, in the trainings, they are steeped in meditations which arouse the altruistic mind and heart of compassion, love, generosity, etc. All of this is prerequisite to the "non dual" experience. And even when these yogis attained the ultimate, there is a saying "My view is as wide as the sky, but my actions are as fine as a grain of sand." Its actually much deeper and more effective than common morality, because they actually understand and have experienced the whole gamut of how things actually work (dharma). Its not just a moralistic over-lay or imposition from external forces, which, as we know, never really works completely.
