Birmingham stations: Curzon Street Station is so called as its main entrance will be on Moor Street. New Street Station is so called as its main entrance is on Stephenson Street. Snowhill Station is so called as its main entrance is on Colmore Row. Moor Street Station is on Moor Street!
In fairness Snow Hill station is named after Snow Hill the area, there is no street called Snow Hill. New Street station doesn't have a single main entrance but none of it's entrances are on New St.
@@alexfrye6 There _is_ a street _Snow Hill_ although with appended _Queensway_ since the early 1960s. The road was truncated when _Colmore Circus Queensway_ was built and the Wesleyan constructed. New Street Station also has entrances on Hill Street/Station Street and Smallbrook Queensway - both further away from New Street than Stephenson Street.
@@frogandspanner Fair enough, I had always thought the area name came first but apparently it takes it's name from the station which takes it from the street. That was kind of my point on New Street, I have no idea why it's called that when none of it's many entrances are onto New Street the street.
@@frogandspanner Snow Hill Queensway never existed when Birmingham Snow Hill Station was constructed by the Great Western Railway in 1800's, it was as alexfrye6 said named after the Snow Hill area of Birmingham
@@peterwilliamallen1063 The "Queensway" part of the name.is an addition. An old map of 1819/20 (Library of Birmingham Town of Birmingham Josiah Robins c.1819-20 MAP/264921 & MAP/435103 ) there is a road called "Snow Hill, which becomes "Constitution Hill" further out. Much of what is now called "Snow Hill Queensway" was called "Snow Hill".
@@street-level To be fair, I think the demolition of the Doric Arch predates the introduction of the legislation that introduced listing by a number of years, if not decades.
Somewhere under the City University building on the other side of Curzon Street is the Railway pub which was a legendary local gig venue from the late 1960s all the way into the 00s.
One point of connectivity: Moor Street was/is supposed to become a more heavily used terminus again, with additional platforms restored and additional routes and services added or rerouted from the congested New Street. That would be an excellent option given it’s just across the road from the main entrance to the new Curzon Street
Absolutely right, they need to be easily connected so that people changing on to local lines can transfer easily. It's always been a worrying thing about the Curzon Street proposal, particularly the transfer to New Street.
@@iankemp1131 The Moor Street expansion proposals are partly to take pressure off of New Street, since New Street being so congested is also one of the reasons HS2 has been proposed in the first place. Some of the Chiltern services were supposed to be diverted there eventually I think, and a couple of WMR services that I don't think exist yet
@@andrewreynolds4949 Thanks. It always makes me wonder whether it's New Street station itself that's congested, or its approaches, particularly to the east. It seems as if a big opportunity was missed by not providing extra tracks to a known bottleneck when the Bull Ring was redeveloped.
@@iankemp1131 I think it's all of the above. Expanding the tunnel approaches would be ridiculously expensive and extremely disruptive to the city, and there's no room for additional platforms either. There's been a new signaling system installed recently, which hopefully helps a bit.
@@andrewreynolds4949 Fair enough. But the tunnel approaches could have been expanded far more cheaply when the Bull Ring was rebuilt. Isn't it something like 4 lines for 12 platforms?
When I was living in a house share in Birmingham a few years ago, one of my housemates was an archaeologist who was working on the old Victorian graveyards that had to be cleared on the site. It was a huge operation! It took them over a year, they had to dig up and catalogue every body and prepare them to be moved. They also had to often have a priest on site for blessings of some sort I guess. The bodies were all moved and buried elsewhere. We had a shared bathroom in that house share and the archaeologist would always leave the bathroom covered in Victorian grave dirt 😅
Good video Jago. I lived in Birmingham for a time about 20 years ago, used to like taking a walk over to the old Curzon Street building for a little look.
Every once in a blue moon they used to open the building as part of a hidden spaces exhibition. I was very fortunate years ago to have a walk around inside. A neighbour of the station used to be (and I may get this wrong) The Queen's Hotel? - which was the birthplace of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers - which now resides on Birdcage Walk in London. When the hotel was demolished, the plaque was moved inside the station. I hope it's still visible one way when HS2 finally opens. I studied at the University across the road, lived very local and saw the immense change to the region in the last decade alone. Hopefully, it will all come to the original vision!
The UK not only cut and cut and cut the HS2 plans til it goes from the outskirts of London to a permanent terminal station in Birmingham. This is very much in the vein of the quality and level of strategic thinking for much of the history of Rail in the UK. By the gods, people! Just build a proper line going all the way from central London to central Glasgow, via through-running stations in central Birmingham and central Manchester (transfers available to HS3 at Manchester, both HS2 & HS3 running at least every 15 minutes on weekdays).
Wow! Jago going outside London! Mind you, it's probably only because HS2 invited him. Although, I'm looking forward to his visit to Sheffield to look at the Supertram, just like he did Croydon, Edinburgh and somewhere else!
@@highpath4776 It's not far off already; it's only 90 minutes or so on a West Coast train to Euston and even in the 1990s there was a healthy commuting market from Brum to London, so I assume that's only increased as London property prices have become ever more horrendous.
@@atraindriver I half wish I had worked out it was so close when I worked in Birmingham. But I guess it would have still been a three hour journey from my present bit of south london then out to the western fringe of Birmingham. I went lunchtimes into the City (actually fiveways it was more interesting) from edgebaston.
@HyperDaveUK Well, it's probably about time "The big heart of England" was finally laid to rest, which is the 1980s marketing tag from which the city council got its logo...
@@Mark.Andrew.Pardoe Given the choice between Birmingham and Nottingham, I'd ask for a third option. *Any* third option. Neither appeals more than the other.
This might sound silly, but they might as well add a stop and build a new city between Old Oak Common and Curzon Street to justify the existence of HS2.
There is still a northen portion but it ends at handsacre junction 20 miles north of Birmingham and dumps trains onto the wcml, which wont help capacity. So you are technically wrong but practically right if that makes sense.
If the New Station in Birmingham opens in 2030 i'll be surprised considering the Darlaston and Willenhall Stations on the Wolverhampton to Walsall Line were due to open this year but could open in 2025 or 2026, then you have Aldridge and Castle Vale Line have to open. And based on how long it took them to open the Tram from Wolverhampton St Georges to The train Station a few hundred meters away probably about 10 minutes walk if that passing the bus station that won't be ready, then there is the Sprint Bus which would run not far away linking Walsall to Birmingham Airport why there is already Electric Trains that go that way. Sprint was supposed to be up and running it isn't they have done a few bus stops on the Walsall to Great Barr Leg suited for Electric Artic buses pointless when you have a bus about every few minutes from Walsall to Birmingham that are Double Decker and some of them are Hydrogen powered granted they are of the road at the minute. But the fastest bus is the X51 every 10 minutes and the 51 every 8 mintues then the Double Decker Electric X1 to Coventry. HS2 much like most of our planned Infrastructure here is Delayed and a waste of money. J10 of the M6 still isn't fully finished they started when I was nearly finished at School in 2018/19 I'm 20 now and it isn't done
This reminds me of making one of the BBC's first "High Definition" recordings, in the early days of digital TV (around 1990), when we needed four tape decks to record one video stream... We made it at Alexandra Palace, where John Logie Baird and EMI had made the very first public TV show "Variety" on 2 Nov 1936. We actually made the same show, with the same opening song "Television" or "Magic Rays of Light" (originally sung by Adele Dixon). We were very proud to be the first high definition programme makers, until we remembered the blue plaque on the outside wall: "THE WORLD'S FIRST HIGH DEFINITION TELEVISION SERVICE WAS INAUGURATED HERE BY THE BBC 2 November 1936". We'd been beaten to the punch by almost 50 years - what goes around, comes around. As with TV so it is with railways. Do you think they'll base the first London to Birmingham instant matter-transport system at Euston and Curzon Street too?
Sure, but by then the jargon and marketing terms will have changed and the technology will be based on a railgun and so they'll just call it ‘high speed rail’
I imagine your high-definition trumped that used in 1936! I think the Baird system kicked off on the 2nd of November, so high definition then was two-hundred-odd lines. The next ‘first’ high definition broadcast presumably came when Marconi-EMI had their turn the day after on 405 lines.. (and of course, let’s not forget the subsequent arrival of 625..)😂
I hope there will be future videos from the Midlands with the industrial heritage around here. Also, Moor Street is worth a glance around as a relatively original GWR station, it has a lovely old feel.
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Oh takes one to no one, so you know so much about Birmingham do you, the knowledge you have of Birmingham could be written on a pea.
Surendra Apharya managed 1,749 characters on a grain of rice, so I reckon on a pea it is possible to write a book. Whereas your comment would indicate your brain is about the size of a pea. @@peterwilliamallen1063
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne. I do home deliveries and you’re right, as I do my rounds in Birmingham I smell weed, I also smell it in most places including Solihull, Sutton Coldfield and even Little Aston. Maybe you should try it one day ?
In the mid-1980s, I worked at the Curzon Street Station building. A Manpower Services Commission organisation and part of the Prince's Trust operated from there. I worked on the top floor - which was reached via a huge staircase in the central atrium. It was very grand - huge windows, everything very substantial. We used to drink at The Woodman, across the road, or at the Eagle and Tun, now demolished but featured on the cover of UB40s first album.
I love that the impressive monumental entrance was originally all alone in an undeveloped area of Birmingham .... and is now all alone in a run down and being redeveloped area of Birmingham History do be like that sometimes - indeed
We all know the Northern section will get built eventually and just like with all these things they're only seen as disasters during construction when it's completed everyone will think it's amazing.
They said that about the shinkansen when it was deep in all kinds of trouble during it's construction. It was eventually completed and extended all throughout Japan. The issues facing HS2 today are purely political and it will eventually be extended to it's full planned route and possibly even more in the distant future. It just makes too much sense to do so. Once people see how great high speed rail is when they travel from Lodnon to Birmingham on the route, they'll be clamoring for it to be extended to Manchester and Leeds even more so than they do today. So you can say it will be remembered as a "disaster" but you will one day be riding it completely forgetting about most of the "issues" it's facing right now, people barely remember all the isssues that crossrail faced now that it's finished and has changed transport throughout London.
Er, no. There’s zero evidence that the cancelled legs will ever get built. Given how short term just about everything is now it’s far more likely the land bought for these routes will be sold off at a loss to try to balance the books. Phase 2 was cancelled because the cost escalated past all estimates to a cost that became unviable. It’s not like building a railway will become cheaper in 20 or 30 years, will it? Of course, it might get built in 100 years’ time but I’m not sure anyone currently alive really cares. Crossrail was massively late, disgustingly over budget and based on its lacklustre performance and issues around shared track near Paddington, I wouldn’t judge it as a success, more an inadequate sticking plaster.
@@caliburn50a No it wasn't. It was "cancelled" (delayed a few years) due to a mix of things. 1) UK media hates railways 2) Too many things were bundled into HS2 like rebuilding Euston which made it look more expensive than it was 3) It was very mismarketed, many people still think it's about cutting journey times not extra capacity for the WCML.
The Liverpool & Manchester, Manchester & Birmingham, the London &Birmingham - all of them - were built with their own money. HS2 is being built with mine - and by God they've spent it like a drunken sailor.
Hello Jago, yet another very interesting video. I could sense and totally agree with your frustration with the causes of ending the current HS2 line at this site. In my view HS2 and the additional HS3-4-5-x should have been directly linked to HS1 thus providing a continuous Railway link to the Continental railway network and as an alternative to flying. I may have commented before of enjoying the experience of seeing the delights of the Kent, French, Belgian and German countrysides on my travels to Wuppertal (die Schwebebahn ( a true monorail Railway ) is fantastic and unique) reminding of an old poster on a bus ( “See more of the countryside by (on the top deck) of a bus [Maidstone & District]) Ah Hamburg - St Pancras) to Abingdon in 2011. Yes, I would do it again if …. too old now sadly. (Precious and happy memories of 2011). It is the journey that matters most ..
Unlike the occupants of the graves, Curzon Street station is being resurrected. The failure to continue to parts northward shows the difference between the grave's occupants and modern politicians, the corpses have got spines.
Ironic the original line was built from the North & got blocked - mirroring HS2 built from the South. Hope HS2 gets to Crewe. Interesting HS2 Curzon St has 7 platforms - prob partly why HS2 Euston has been slashed to 6. Wonder if the TBMs to Euston could carry on to King's Cross.
All over Europe, big city terminus stations are being turned into through stations at great expense. Only in Britain would a new big city terminus be built in the city in the middle of the country.
If the government had a horse they'd fed it less and less each day, and just when then they'd got it living on nothing the ungrateful animal would die.
"It's not a 19th-century terminus without a _little_ desecration." True, though to be fair, I reckon it's pretty much impossible to build anything in the urban areas of Great Britain without digging up _something_ that was better left alone.
I might be mistaken, but in the future someone will ask why wasn’t this piddling little railway not extended to Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow and even Euston so that it operate to its full potential on dedicated lines to reduce Inland commuter flights and to open up the freight sector rail traffic. As always, a joy to watch a quality researched video. Thank you Jago!
Do you not read anything, HS2 trains will go to Manchester via at present the WCML from Handsacre in Staffordshire, and at present the Mayors of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester are comming together o try and reserect the high speed link between Handsacre and Manchester, HS2 was never ever going to be built North of Crewe to Scotland
@@peterwilliamallen1063 no, I’m afraid don’t read much on the subject. I actually live in Germany and with a few exceptions, I have more or less given up on the British press. However, I enjoy this channel enormously, and rather get involved in any kind keyboard exchange, I would just ask you to pardon my ignorance. Thank you.
Another great video Jago. I would also like express my utter and total contempt for the backward political visigoths and vandals who decided to deprive the rest of us of the northern legs of this project. Hopefully, if our friends in the polling organisations are correct they may not remain in power for much longer, and maybe, just maybe, the new lot will prove a tiny bit less myopic. Either that or someone will eventually launch a Victorian style subscription for investors and thus allow us to build the nations first truly privately funded railway in quite a long while...
Great history lesson. Now all we need to know is why oh why is HS2 taking so B long to build! The Victorians seemed to be able to do things PDQ by comparison - and we have all these new fangled machines at our disposal.
The clue is in Jago's comment about any 19th century terminus having a little descration. We do tend to care rather more about a lot of matters not considered by the victorians.
When I worked in TV we had contracts from NKTV Japan who were experimenting with hi def. The camera we had was separate from the recording unit. I remember thw camera had the serial number 007.
Considering that I got my early Covid jabs in central Birmingham in 2021 near the Curzon Street HS2 site and site clearance & prep work had already been underway for some months by then, you do realise why HS2 is costing so much.
Jago old boy, I do hope that now you are a form prefect, our friendship, will continue, What come into your head to travel north of Watford Gap Services, You do remember old Grisham's Dad disappeared on a trip to Durham, Anyway when you manage to get back from, upt norf, theirs a drink behind the bar for you at the club,
Always found it sad that old Curson Station stood alone when arriving at New Street, yet happy it somehow survived the era that demolished old Euston... What goes 'round, comes 'round like they used to say in the '70s... 1:50 where does the Columbine call home these days...?
The street is named after Sir Nathaniel Curzon, 2nd Baronet, who came into possession of the land on which the street was built in 1715. Source: Wikipedia
It's a shame the New Street has been half buried with a sort modern facade that faces the wrong way and is now nowhere as visually appealing as its former self.
Thank goodness they didn't bulldoze Curzon Street like they did with Euston especially the Great Hall and the Arch. The "reversing" city terminal station on a through line is still pretty common in many places In Europe, such as Frankfurt, Milan and Rome. Antwerp too until they built new high speed through platforms directly underneath it.
5:08 New Street station actually opened in 1852 as the terminus of the Stour Valley Line from Wolverhampton. At this point in time it was only a single platform with a temporary side-entrance. The rest of the platforms, along with the station buildings and main concourse, opened in 1854 when the services from London were diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street, but the station itself had technically already been open for around 2 years by then. The full timeline of events goes like this: 1st July 1852: New Street station opens (one platform) as Stour Valley Line terminus 1st June 1854: LNWR Main Line from London Euston & Grand Junction Railway Line from Stafford diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. All platforms at New Street + station buildings & main concourse now open 1st July 1854: Midland Railway Lines from Gloucester & Derby diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. Curzon Street now closed A lot of internet sources (including Wikipedia) give 1st June 1854 as the opening date for Birmingham New Street, but that just isn't quite true.
Crurzon St carried on into the 1980s as a Red Star and general parcels depot, after which the tracks were removed and the main depot passed to Lynx, the privitsed company spun out of what had been BR Parcels and National Carriers who still used the Old Building as offices. A brief period of use by City Nightline parcels followed, the only happening of note being a guy who got himself posted in a crate downsouth to a depot in Leicester intending to rob it, being thwarted when he in his crate were instead held over a long weekend at Curzon st. Following the collapse of City Nightline in the late 1990s, operation passed to Parcel Force, who concentrated on the main former parcels building, ownership of the old Curzon St station building passing to local authority and being used for a number of art exhibitions before finally being boarded up for protection at the commencement of HS2 work in 2018.
3:50 Really interesting typography on the sign. The superscript T has an underline and an apparent ‘ditto’. That would indicate the abbreviation it's abbreviating is Stt for Street. It makes sense and I have to explore old signage now thank you very much
Birmingham's Road name signs are worth a look, dont know if they are unique but I recall white posts with the street name equally balanced near the top of the post (finial for a flourish) in a sort of arts and crafts script in black on the white background. similar script for those located at dwarf wall level, certainly around the edgebaston area
@@highpath4776 They also show the development of postcodes, from pure area codes ("12") to alpha-numeric ("B12"), although I don't think Birmingham ever bothered with putting full postcodes on street signs unlike some local authorities. And since Birmingham City Council is basically bankrupt and can't even scrounge up the funding to 'refresh' its 1980s "heart" logo, I doubt there'll be any changes to street signs any time soon!
I've been in the building. I hope it's nicely revamped and put to good use. On the subject of station locations, I do wonder about HS lines losing something of their raison d'etre when the terminuses aren't interchanges with ongoing connections.
Thanks Jago. Nice update on proceedings and the direction of travel (as it were). Perhaps a video on how the interchange with the other stations will work for passengers wanting to head further north would be appropriate. How will one get to Leeds for example? Just a thought.
HS2 aside, we see stations sporting columns with Doric capitals and Ionic capitals. There really ought to be some Corinthian columns somewhere in all this.
That'd be Huddersfield then. I guess from a failed HS2 point of view the failure to connect the capital capital by capital style wise to the rest of the country is just another angle from which this sucks.
Phew. I thought you were going to reveal to all that Curzon Street used to be where MI5 was based, but luckily it's the Birmingham one you are talking about.
I really hope they've rethought the footbridge over to Moor Street since the proposals I saw some time ago. Moor Street had a lot of money spent on restoring it to something close to its GWR glory and its one of the nicest city centre mainline stations as a result, yet the HS2 link appeared to be a modern concrete lump bolted on from one side and rather spoiling the whole effect.
Birmingham Curzon Street could be called “Birmingham Central” unless there was a station that was called Birmingham Central and it was replaced by New Street and Moor Street stations. I do think that HS2 should extend up to Manchester and Leeds despite its cancelled because of the cost of building HS2 going North is mental.
Why would they call Birmingham Curzon Street, Birmingham Central when it is not in the central part of Birmingham being built on the extreme edge of Birmingham City Centre and the shopping Cetre over New Street Station is called Grand Central
Amusing that Latif woz here is graffitied on the hoarding around the entrance building and Latif is also the name on a local large business nearby. Busy lad is that Latif.
Fascinating to me that a station by the wharf, or airport, etc. would be 'disruptive.' This goes with your video on Old Oak Common: "C'mon, people! We're starting to look flaky in front of the other countries." What's is going to take to realize that intermodal connections are the best way to enhance commerce AND reduce costs, pollution, etc.? It's similar to how New York City has never gotten its act together or have smooth, seamless transport to either JFK or LaGuardia airports. "C'mon, people!"
Thank you for this video, Jago. I first saw Curzon Street back in the seventies and was greatly impressed by its grandure... It really is wonderful that it is being incorporated into the new station.
So are the New HS2 Curzon Street, Moor Street and New Street going to be linked-up as a hub? They are not an enormous distance apart and people will need to move between them. A travelator perhaps, or will HS2 passengers have to walk to New Street, or maybe catch a train from Moor street to New Street?
Only Birmingham Curzon Street Station and Birmingham Moor Street Station are being joined together as a super rail hub, New Street Station is too far awy to be joine to these two stations
HS2, the fastest you can get from a London suburb to a station somewhere near Birmingham city centre + the tube at one end and a team at the other end. Farcical project that future generations will look back at and quite rightly ridicule us for.
HS2 phase 2 is *DEAD.* Not coming back. The land is up for sale. It was garbage even omitting a city region of 2 million - Liverpool. Good riddance to it. HS2 runs to Handsacre near Lichfield. Then HS2 trains continue off the WCML to Liverpool, Glasgow and Manchester. Network Rail have three options to bypass the WCML around Stafford, which will make matters far better and safer as there was fatality at Colwich. Also, Hendy of Network Rail was on about upgrading the WCML north of Crewe, with emphasis on Liverpool's port. The government have pledged £12bn for a new Liverpool-Manchester line.
"The government have pledged £12bn for a new Liverpool-Manchester line." I'm afraid they haven't. They've just made the usual reannouncements of money that had already been announced multiple times for the upgrades between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds which had themselves already been announced as "new" multiple times. The government's actual wording is "We will also invest a further £12 billion to better connect Manchester to Liverpool. This would allow the delivery of Northern Powerhouse Rail as previously planned". Andy Burnham has in his comments been very careful to use weasel words like "could" and "may" when talking about rail investment, and the media as usual reported possibilities as definites. :(
@@atraindriver The transport secretary was in Liverpool recently to sign an agreement with Steve Rotheram the Liverpool City Region metro-mayor. He told him to get excited about a new line to Manchester. Afterwards Rotheram said it was smoke and mirrors. The government rebuffed by saying they are committing billions to the city.
New Street was redeveloped a couple of years ago. However, there is only one access at each end, since New St is underground, so there are constant delays at each end, and there is still a shortage of platform space--platforms double up as A and B. Birmingham will have the same schemozzle as London: three stations next to each other, totally unconnected.
Two access each end of New Street..... And the stations in Birmingham will be a dam sight closer than they are in London......a matter of a few hundred yards in fact
