In the skydiving community we are pretty harsh to criticize when we think someone could have handled a situation better - I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about things you could have done to prevent the situation etc - the fact is you had a malfunction and you executed your drills perfectly,and had plenty of altitude to pick a safe landing area. It must be very hard to maintain altitude awareness when you are in a potential cutaway scenario. Glad to read you still jump.
OMG, I just saw this video and it brought back a repressed experience I had when I was a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne! On one of my jumps, I slammed into the guy in front of me after he stalled at the door and we both plummeted, but with me riding his pack. We were doing a MassTac exit from a C-17, which means 50 jumpers per door, full combat equipment and just a furious pace to jump in the 1-minute window to clear 100 paratroopers on to Sicily DZ. When my main opened, I saw and felt the twists immediately, with the further horror of seeing my canopy 3/4 below the horizon and me staring at the ground, almost upside down, which was made especially scary because it was at 2:30 in the morning on a full moon, giving the ground a ghostly pale look. I whipsawed up and around, saw my ride, the C-17 pulling away with me still spinning and me, far below the other jumpers. When I stabilized, I looked down saw the ground approaching fast. I tried pulling my reserve, but because I had so many twists, I couldn't grip under my risers to start bicycle kicking out to untwist and in fact, my arms were pulled up high enough to where I couldn't reach down to pull the handle to activate my reserve. By sheer coincidence, I spun so fast into my twists, that I started to counter-spin out with surprising slight oscillation once out of the twist. Once stable, I immediately released my combat gear to help stabilize me and I swear if I didn't hit the ground just a couple of seconds later with a resounding "thunk", which given how many of my suspension lines were tangled, I was lucky. And I can totally relate to DaveW when he got to the ground because I remember being shocked, awed, relieved, spent and just glad to be on the ground! I was thankful it was zero dark thirty in the morning so nobody saw it happen and I recall praying and just sitting there like DaveW for a few minutes before I retrieved my M4 out of my weapons case and started rolling up my T-10C which is what we jumped then. Looking back, I was fortunate we jumped a C-17 from 1500 feet! Had we jumped a C-130, jumped altitude would have been 800-1000 feet and the story would have been different! It's weird, I remembered it happening, but the vividness of it was lost on me until I saw this video, so it really affected me and glad DaveW is still jumping! I had to wait another 4 months before I jumped again as I went on leave to California to visit my folks. The rest of my jumps were not as eventful thankfully, but when you jump between 800-1500 with so many other jumpers in such a condensed area with chutes that steer like a Mack truck, they were far from normal!
Great job....I recently had a line over and twist as a result of a bad pack job. Like an idiot, I tried to kick out of it. When I finally gave up and chopped it my RSL went to work and I was under reserve. Problem was I was at 800 feet. Valuable lesson for me...if I look up and see garbage, its gone immediately...its only $75 for a reserve re-pack
The main landed on the top of a tree in the woods, I paid a pro to get it out for me. He got it out unharmed. My free bag made it to the ground in the same area. It took two days to find everything. I was lucky to have a few friends that helped look for them.
He should had cutaway and than get back to a neutral position and than deploy the reserve, he just cutaway and deployed the reserve imediatly(witch is completely understandable in this crazy moment) causing a reserve twisted lines... Wonderfull job.. see u in the dz man !!
Incredible video!! I had a similar, primary malfunction, in 1979, when I was 21. I did not cutaway. It was about my 10th jump on this Stratostar, after 300 or so jumps on a round, Piglett II RW canopy. I opened low, 1,800 feet and at first, like an idiot, I thought it was the same as a "barber pole" on a round! At 1,000 feet it started a violent spin and then completely collapsed before I hit the ground. I thought you were going to die in this video. In those days, we did not have much in the way of video camera, etc. I have never seen a video of the type thing that happened to me, although I've tried to picture it in my mind to figure it out. Thanks so much for posting this. I should have cutaway immediately, like you did. I wonder, because the first malfunction was making you spin, and your cutaway was so incredibly fast, is this why the reserve opened like it did.....I mean because you were spinning? Just curious. I got hurt on that jump and only made about another 50 after that, but one was the first WSCR over NY State, lol. Thanks again, and good luck!!!
The reason both canopies were trying to dive in the line twists probably had a lot to do with the risers being offset (one higher than the other). Having the risers offset in linetwists is the same as giving the canopy harness input, which will obviously induce a turn, even a diving turn if it's intense (offset) enough. Make it a habit to stay symmetrical in the harness throughout the deployment sequence - this will keep the canopy flying straight and make it much easier to deal with twists. Also, keep your legwing closed during the snivel. If you leave your legwing open, it can easily turn into a makeshift propeller that spins your body while the canopy snivels i.e. linetwist city.
With huge pressurized big suits, it's almost impossible to keep legwing closed. The best thing is to jump with a base canopy as main canopy. Probabilty of spining under twist is very low. In +300 WS base, I had several time some serious line twists, NEVER had a spin. I had 4 times line twist WS skydiving, 2 times I had to cut away after huge spinning an 1 time I was twisted under reserve, luckily, reserve is way more stable.
I noticed after about 60 jumps that I became very instinctual about putting in massive input to keep my heading or prevent a line twist from starting. If you have too much rotation, its hard to stop yourself from spinning after the first twist is complete. I just recently started practicing heading control by doing deep stalls and then recovering a little quicker than I should.
The double mal just caught you by surprise , i guess sometimes instinct takes over no matter how much training, great recovery on the reserve twists ,you walked away.. Period!!!
Although I never had a malfunction (only 35 jumps) I think your advise to get stable BEFORE deploying the reserve is a good one to keep in mind! Glad you survived your double Mal!
Bummer about the double mal, but glad you got your main and free bag back. On a side note, something that I've found that helps me when I get in to line twists while wingsuiting is using the leg wing (pointed in the opposite direction of the twists) - works very well if your canopy is inflated and flying straight - let physics take over.
That's a good guy. He didn't try to show off and pull low like some of these guys who fly squirrels nowadays . He pulled at a good alt and it paid off big time. I'm also glad to see that rsls or so good at staying stable even when they come out with a few line twist I'm not saying any other reserve rigs are bad it's just a little opinion. But FOR REAL THOUGH GUYS.... Pull high please it really helps with any kind of malfunction and don't think it couldn't happen to you. Btw I'm not saying around thirty eight hundred ish is stupid low but😏... Please guys jump smart and SAFE! Enjoy the air
+Real Tory he is referring to people in wing suits that will basically turn a skydive into a base jump by not opening till nearly 2000'. this gives little to no time to fix a malfunction and almost not enough time to use reserve. should always pull above 3000'. i personally don't pull under 3500'. I enjoy my ride under canopy as much as i do free fall.
+Aaron Baum oh yeah, why couldn't he untwist the first twist on the main chute? why did he "cut off" that 1? how bad is it when the chute twists? can u die? what if ur back up twists like this but u can't fix it? plz reply
+Aaron Baum WOW!!!!!!! WE routinely pulled at 2,500 feet, in the 1970's! Most of us, tried to just be open by 2,000 feet....may be why I almost didn't make it. We smoked it down. I pulled at 1,800 feet, which was incredibly stupid, because a girl was trying to fly in to our star 8th and get her SCS. Do they still even have SCR< SCS< WSCR? That is why, when i had a spinning malfunction, I screwed up bad and literally bounced.
good to hear. you make some close friends in this sport sharing the experiences we do. my last cutaway i got injured and when i got back to the dz a few days later my main and freebag were there waiting for me
Good for you, that all ended well! And the main parachute found! When I watched the video, I filched breath! :) I can imagine what you have experienced. Good luck. Sorry for my English. Skidive forever! ;)))))
oh myyyy. im about to take my aff course, and all i can think is, i would shit my pants if i find myself in a situation like that. you did good!! glad u are ok
@@pccoder everything went fine. I had a landing accident on my 87th jump and I stopped :/ I am ok tho. I got married and jumping didn't make sense anymore. I got to jump from lots of different DZ's and different airplanes and helicopters. It was fun
+Kadir Suyabatmaz I know, huh???? This is the first video I ever saw that made me remember so clearly, as I have not jumped since I was 30 yrs old...28 years ago!
found my main in a tree two days later. No joking, the main was 100% fine after two days in a tree. As far the underpants... well... yes I needed some new ones =)
My thoughts on this were after previously I wondered why you need so many jumps under your belt before you can wear a camera or go wing suit jumping etc. Now I see just why the experience part is so important.
Be VERY careful about the "get stable before reserve deployment" mentality....I personally watched someone go in because they were trying to get stable and had no idea how low they were when they chopped. If you know you have the altitude, sure get stable, but it's very dangerous to tell yourself that you will get stable no matter what. Line twists are better than nothing out if you end up lower than you thought.
I have a couple of questions (excuse my ignorance - not a skydiver). 1 - I know you semi-covered this in your description, but do you reckon if you'd persisted/taken a slightly different approach, you could have kicked out of the first chute's twist and not needed to use the reserve? If so, how/what? 2 - You look pretty traumatised here. Do you still skydive? I hope it didn't ruin it for you. Peace :)
What you cant really feel or see for the 1st line twist is that I was spinning on my back. The spin was causing G force to build up. The G force can cause me to black out of I don't correct the issue fast enough. When the 2nd line twist happened, I wasn't spinning on my back so it was much easier to clear. However looking back now this was over 200 jumps ago. I can now clear a spinning line twist w/o having to cutaway. As per your 2nd point. Yes I jump every week still =)
Cool cool, thanks for that. What caused you to spin on your back, if you don't mind? Great that you still jump. I did a tandem jump recently and suddenly I'm hyper-interested in learning how to do it lol :) Just need to save a piss-load of money, my paranoid parents are refusing to contribute.
snowyalbino130 why do line twists happen if I may ask? I am not a diver either and I really respect how you managed to get away from it. You make it look so easy really. Is it a result of not properly packing the parachute? How can you avoid it? Sorry, so many questions haha.
Can u tell me plz did ur cutaway then immediate reserve pull (while bad body position/spinning ) cause the reserve line twist ? Can u not wait a few seconds before the reserve deployment to level ur body ? Could it have prevented the second line twist ?
Holy crap that's scary. Wow. How often do line twists happen? In reading your description it sounds like they are sort of a given if you skydive with any regularity? I'm about to embark on AFF training and have been watching tons of videos, both when things go right and go wrong. Didn't realize that line twists happened all that often.
It is probably the most common malfunction, but alot of the time you can fix it. During my first jump ever (IAD) I had major line twist. I was still high speed. I jumped from 4500 AGL. at 2000 AGL I was just about to cut away when my chute partially opened and I rode it out.
OutlawDELTA Ouch, and I thought IAD was supposed to be more comfortable than static line jumps... you must have freeked out... Do you know what was the cause of the twists in your case? Was it a bad position when it opened, or maybe a packing problem?
I was actually really calm in the air, but when i landed on the ground I just sat down for a little bit adrenaline pumping!! Instructor said my body position was pretty good. Especially for first jump. So it was most likely a packing problem.
Dave W Well, I was scared for the next 50 jumps. After cutaway RSL pulled my reserve while I was in nasty rotation, backs to the ground...reserve started opening and I was just rotating causing line twist. Jump was from 3500 ft, static line. I resolved problem with reserve at little over 1000 ft. Btw. you did good job too!
I had to use reserve on my 10th jump. It was only my 4th self deployment and every jump had gone well this far. I jumped out at 7200 ft and planned to deploy at 4200 ft. However the hand deploy did not come out from the bottom even though I tried 3 or 4 times. At this stage I started to realize I won't be able to use my main because of stuck hd. I then paniced a little because my body position didn't stay stable. At 2600 ft I decided I need to use my reserve and turned back to normal flying position and deployed reserver at 1900 ft. Even though this wasn't really a dangerous situtation I am a little afraid of my next jump. I may perform a hop 'n pop on my next jump just to get the confidence back... I was kind of scared a couple days later when I realized what had happened. Btw, the first thing on my mind was not to open the reserve too late so I would avoid the extra costs of renewing the AAD. :D I even managed to bring the handles to the ground because my instructor had told me from the very beginning that in case you need to deploy reserve, bring back all the equipment if possible. Funny how human brain works... Even though the costs would have not been on me.
PS....I was almost expecting, at the end of video, for you to start thanking God for being alive, lol. That's what I would have done, but I probably would've been crying, yelling or something!
+Bo Stevens I stopped kicking to chill out for a moment to get my wits back. In the P3 it's easy to kick out when your legs are still in the leg wing. I however could not kick out with my legs still in the leg wing of the V2. Once I removed one of my legs from the leg wing, it was easy to kick out.
+Dave W YES, like Bo Stevens said, HOW did you make the reserve clear? I went back to :47 and watched again. Why did turn/spin stop and what were you doing to clear it? I tried kicking my legs.....which was very stupid, long story (I also accidentally released one brake).
+Nancy J. Luna I reached down and took one of my legs out of the Wingsuit. at the same time I expanded my arm wing to try to stop the spinning in that direction. once I had full range of motion it was easier for me to kick out. most of the time I'm able to kick out of a line twist with my legs in the wings. however this time I was unable to be successful with my legs in.
You really shouldn't be telling people that they need to get stable before pulling the reserve. After a cutaway, unless you are at a high altitude, your only worry should be pulling that reserve! Also you should of used your RSL
+Mike Safire I din't like RSL's. Pull at 2500, decision height 2000, cutaway by 1800, get stable, pull reserve by 1500, open reserve canopy by 1200.RSL's are for people who like to take it under a grand.
+Dave W Yep, upon closer look there was nothing coming from the departing main risers, so I guess it was a too-quick pull of the reserve after chop and diver was still spinning. I don't get that and I've been in several RSL vs no-RSL arguments and I'm anti-RSL; the whole point is to get stable after chop. Rarely do you have a stable situation when you chop, I guess you could have a big hole in the main and it be flying fairly straight, but usually a spinner which is why I hate the idea of an RSL. I used one as a student and one as a tandem instructor, never other than that.I've had 1 each 3-handle chops and of course no RSL. I was spinning faster than this video, chopped, got belly stable and pulled like it was a main but reached across my chest for silver and it was a very quick release that was stable from the onset. Either use an RSL or get stable, going no RSL and pulling quickly leaves you in the worst of both worlds.
