In my opinion and 16yrs experience..if you drive your truck like a racing car …like they do over here in North America…expect things to go wrong pretty quickly..2.4 million on my Cummins six…an still going strong 😎
I couldn’t agree more. No warm ups , pull hills at low rpm ,pull in to fuel just turn off engine No run down , stretch out services to ridiculous miles then wonder why it fails. Service it warm it up run it down don’t cool it and it’ll serve you well….. any engine
This is the best video out on what needs to be done with ISX motor Cummins should pay half the cost or all for the piece of junk they put out some guys have gone out of business because of this.
It is in the manual, Cummins Quickserve, it is free, all you need to do is register your Engine Identification Number with Cummins and they will give you, for FREE, everything the dealership has at its disposal. Complete instructions for diagnostics, repairs, schematics, parts, etc., everything you would need is right there, including the procedure to properly counterbore the block and which tool to use. Unfortunately, many Cummins trained and certified "mechanics" never read the manual. I learned this first hand after going through just this, a blown liner, Cummins shop, they never cut and shimmed the block as I instructed them to do. Seventy thousand miles later, blown head gasket and a trashed head... This time, I rebuilt the motor myself, and had a very good friend with the cutting tool prep the block. I rebuilt that motor with an iPhone and a bag of simple hand tools. That was back in 2016, still driving it to this day, knock on wood, without issues. And if you ever do take on a job like this, follow the procedure in regards to priming the oil circuit... The bearings I took out of the fresh in frame looked like they had 2 million miles on them. That Cummins shop skipped that part too, it is in the manual.
Nice content! There is no way the consumer should have to pay one red cent for this obvious manufacturing oversight. As a tool maker, 0.010 to 0.020 is a football field. They should actually be forced to pay for this literal machining in the field. Good stuff
Cummins deliberately sets the liners too low so the gaskets fail as soon as the engine is out of warranty. Those engines have made Cummins a lot of money and put a lot of owner operators out of business
Counterbore and liner fretting is caused by block being torqued under load as well as the ledge being to narrow and not supporting the liner properly.I set the liners at .014 and use stainless shims.Also have a friend making block stiffener plates that go between oil pan and block(like the M11’s had).Fretting more common with the higher torque engines.For what its worth the DD15 engines are having the same issue and thats a mid stop liner as well
Nice chatter marks thats what happens when you take giant cuts. Liner will push shim into marks which can lead to another head gasket problem and cut block again.
So, no plugs in the 4 oil galleries in the top of the block that extend directly to the main oil gallery. Next no plug on the high pressure fuel line to stop dirt and debris entry, the fuel system on the High pressure side is filtered to 3 microns about the size of bacteria. Now there is no way an ISX is going to blow a head gasket because of 0.010" protrusion. There was an issue somewhere else or you didn't measure the protrusion correctly. The issue isn't poor machining from the factory, I have measure many new blocks and found them to be accurately machined. Cummins did have the spec up to 0.014" at one time but then revised it to 0.012" min spec is 0.007". And of course there are the new liners with increased ledge area that work well. Just sayin!!
I definitely had that problem with one of my isx15. I blew another and I'm willing to bet I had that problem, but I was ignorant of a lot of this information back then.
This is the EXACT reason I had Cummins rebuild my ISX including cutting the counter bores. They produce the engine, if they screw it up they pay to correct the problem. Cummins even warranties their parts if an outside shop put it on. I have nearly 100k on my rebuilt CM871 ISX and it runs perfectly. I've never had a problem with my engine and has nearly 1.5 million on it since 2008.
Ha ha, yea Cummins warranty. I was a transit bus mechanic for several years. We sent a bus to Cummins Rocky Mountain in Denver for a new M-11 engine. We got the bus back, and it kept setting low oil pressure codes. Cummins came out and replaced a melted Teflon thrust washer in the front gear housing. Still keep setting codes. An engineer came up with a “fix”. Drill into an oil passage by the air compressor. Then drive in a restrictor plug they fabricated. Still had low oil pressure issues. Cummins would not consider pulling the engine, or tearing it down. We just ate it, and retired the bus. I lost all respect for Cummins after that.
@@redmesa2975 I would have too. I've managed to have positive experiences with Cummins all around the country so I consider myself fortunate in that regard.
I had an isx fail at 750,000. The plastic injector cup broke. Took everything to the oil pan at 65 mph. It had bad blowby Boss said driver till she blows.
Don't want to be a debby downer but for a few guys it's worth mentioning it's worth doing basic checks make sure the head and deck of the block are true alot of guys run with a bad head gasket longer than they should it will take out some material and will cause issues with multiple head gasket especially if the guy before you went with a die grinder to clean the mating surface and hogged out a low spot with it.
As we found with the gm 350ci the later blocks had more issues with machining was because gm didn’t replace there tooling that often so the tolerances were effected, it’s probably the same case with the ISX blocks
They don’t make them like they used to . My old M11 450 Cummins ran a million miles and never broke down . Then i went to an ISM 500 and the same again ,over a million miles .
Head G. blew out near the head bolt but instead of just simply blowing out the side in between head and block, it finds its way into a coolant passage, pressurizing it.
very useful information we just got a 4900 western star with a 600 cummins and have suspicious about it already its 2010 model this is extremely useful to know.
I use to work on the older 855s NTs and NTCs. Then moved to the N14 which I really liked to work on. Glad I’m out of the business now. Don’t like the newer engines.
Don't lug the motor under a load, keep the rpm up above 1500 rpm at all times. If you have an auto transmission that is set up to lug, get it recalibrated and get those shift points up where they should be. When you lug a Cummins, due to their design, the forces on the liner walls are magnified, and simply beats them out of their seat in the block. The higher the rpm the lower the forces are on the liner walls.
@@michaelwright1602Yes, this is literally the lack of strength in the block that is showing up in the down speed trucks which are the majority these days. Cummins has a serious problem on their hands with this x-15 block
A couple of questions. Should you not torque the cutter as well as the liner hold down bolts for more consistent readings ? Also, does using a ratchet to turn the cutter head leave a small dent in the cutting surface every time you stop turning and reach for a new bite with the ratchet? Wouldn't it be better with a gear reduction 90 degree drill for steady rotation and less side load of the cutter tool? Just wondering.
Yes can definitely torque the cutter, as far as using a power tool, the tool manufacturer recommends against it for this cutter. I fo agree it would make a smoother cut, but as long as your careful it'll come out good. If you rush it you can leave marks like you describe.
I didn’t know there were any mechanics left! Most are Technician/part changers. Outstanding work! I’m in the market for my first semi and everyone I speak with say to stay away from ISX engines. Most trucks out there are ISX. Are the engines around 2000 year models have any major issues?
I prefer the Monoco cutting tool, have done hundreds of engines and never an issue with it. Always use a cummins head gasket as the aftermarket have shown issues with leaks at the corners. That block deck looks like it was cleaned with a wiz wheel die grinder which is not good, as mentioned else where. I use a 12" flat sanding tool with scotch pads, works nice. This is a common issue as well as others things and keeps us working as long as we can get parts these day.
liners have been a problem since the small cam 250's that i can remember. they were upper press fit then went to lower press fit now to this slop and flop. mack never had the problem with the liners(dry) cut my share in the old days and yeah that tool chatter wont work. i hated those gravity fed cutters for that.
Good video sir, but... Why is this motor going through heads? They were counterbored from the factory, even if the bores were jenky. Did they really install multiple heads without ever inspecting the liner heights? Or is it a bad delete doing this? Is it the way the driver of the truck is actually driving it? Is he lugging the motor? Lug an ISX and you will blow liners, head gaskets and ruin heads, counterbore or not. If you are running these ISX motors under load at say 1200 rpm like the dealer tells you, or the way your automatic transmission is set up, you will blow these liners all day. They need to be ran at 1500 rpm and up when under a load. An ISX is capable of easily handling 2100 rpm. Then, an automatic transmission, another huge culprit of blown liners, can have its shift points recalibrated. I you own a truck with an auto trans, you really need to address this, or this will be you in the video. DO NOT lug these motors, and if you own a truck with one of these lug it transmissions, get it recalibrated to shift properly. Again, I heard no mention of why this is happening, other than not being counterbored, which is true, but what else is going on? And these ISX heads, they are one time use only, even a cummins reman is prone to failure in the first 200,000 miles or less. Always use a new head, an OEM Cummins head.
It happens because the liners are low and crooked. This one measured .010 and according to cummins that is within spec. But in reality it's not enough.
@@zedperformance I know that, but I believe you stated this truck has been through three heads? Are you saying you are the first mechanic to actually repair this motor properly? If so, that says a lot about the quality of what we can find in most shops. Getting pretty sad out here, especially from what I have seen out here over the past few years. Keep up the good work.
This makes me feel better. I just bought a isx with 500,000 that has been rebuilt and counterbores cut. My freind was telling me it was a problem with “soft castings” and my rebuild wouldn’t last any longer then the factory build.
The engines i've done this too over 8 years ago have surpassed what they lasted stock. If done right you'll be in good shape for a while. Just be careful to never let these run low on antifreeze. they are very picky about that.
I'm 6 years on my rebuild, my buddy cut the block and shimmed the liners, I did the rest... If done properly you should have a million mile motor, just don't lug the damn thing under a load. Keep the motor at that 1500 rpm and above, or you will beat those liners right out of the block, no matter the protrusion height.
Just a DIY myself but looked like ur cutter was cutting hopping cuts mite b need whetting some Got stone to attach to tool smooch cut surface with stone or sharpen your tool with ?
I'm more of a fan of pulling the engine and sending the block out to get the counter bores cut in a proper horizontal boring mill and then measure the liner depth and fly cut the block face to set the liner depth, I also get to actually clean the block and paint it properly
Nice video but as they say, there's a critic in every crowd. Your totally using that cutter wrong, you never take the shims out once you have your depth set. You take out no more than .004" shim at a time, your trying to cut the whole thing at once and that's why your cuts look like they have chatter marks in them. Also, you never use any type of fluid as a "cutting" fluid when cutting these, that has a tendency to let shavings stick to places they shouldn't be.
Sales pitch for K Line. Any machinest just clamp a 1/4 lathe bit to one of the old liners and turn by hand. I have done it on cat and it can't be much different on cummins.
What is the max you cut the counter bore ,you said on one cylinder you cut it 024 and when you installed the liner you you said you got to cut .013 more
Good video. Is there a reason Cummins design the liner flange to be down in the block rather than at the top of the cylinder. This design must put a huge force onto the liner, rather than all the forces be around the top flange? Thank you.
According to an engineer friend of mine, it is a poor design. If it had a bit of an angle to the cylinders/liners, instead of the 90 degree design, the forces of the pistons beating on the walls would be reduced, allowing longer life out of the motor. What you can do to alivieate much of those forces, is to not lug the motor, under load, below that 1500 rpm mark. These dealers, and Cummins, say for best fuel economy to run these motors under load all the way down to 1000 rpm. Well, you do that, you are simply beating the hell out of those liners, and the reason many fail. Another huge contributing factor, are these God forsaken automatic transmissions. They are set up with very low RPM shift points. These shift points can be adjusted, and should be to get any life out of these motors and transmissions. Your motor and transmission will thank you, and add more than a few years to the life to both components.
The top of the liner is where peak cyl pressure is along with combustion expansion. Detroit made a taper seat for the liners just above the liner oring pack to alleviate this
I always thought that liners were mounted at the top and free at the bottom so they had space to grow down with the heat so I suppose if you was to apply that theory here as the heat builds up here the liner is growing upwards into the head bitting tighter into the fireing ring.I would wager the problems happen more from engines doing a lot of stop starting and being allowed to cool right of relaxing the liner back to size and the growing back up again repeatedly.
If you need this quality of work, and a real warranty, Haggai Automotive and Diesel Repair in Griffin GA is your guy. They specialize in Cummins motors, one of the best shops in the country.
I think the single cam engines better, less moving parts and the benifit of common rail injection. But as far as out of the box stock reliability, the ISX ive seen last the longest would be the early twin cams.
@@zedperformance I'm a living witness I currently own a 2007 isx 1.4 million miles everything original never changed a single injector..the only thing I'm faced with is a front crankcase leak
@@jeffreyweston900 Watch that soft aluminum on the front structure it it is leaking at the oil pan. Do not use a zip gun, hand tools only, and be gentle. The torque specs and procedure are to be found in Cummins Quickserve. It is free, just register the EIN with Cummins.
If this is a common problem with this model of Cummins motor and with the given Cummins is a worldwide name the Directors and Management of Cummins should be jumping in here and tell there current and future customers that they are all over this and they have remedied the problem for future engines
@@zedperformance So from the relative safety of the South Pacific and given this mechanic told us this was the third head gasket [alas he did not say how many miles the motor had incurred whilst consuming head gaskets at an incredible rate of knots] One could be forgiven for imagining anyone buying one of these motors would be handed a workshop manual and a set of head gaskets as he or she left the dealers yard accompanied by the words here you will most likely need a set of these. Many outside he States are watching the John Deere software retention issue with amazement Finally and in the spirit of humour the States are an amazing place Where else in the world would you have a nation of people trying to make tea by tipping perfectly good English tea into salt water
I work at Cummins, and we fixed this issue about a year ago for new engines. It was a tough problem to solve. Not all problems are easy to solve or are easy to test for and this checks both of those boxes. It was less of a problem after the shim was installed under the liners for the ~2013+ built engines, but higher cylinder pressures didn't help as you got closer to today. Moving forwards, this should be fixed. Also, don't exceed 0.014", as this has a high likelihood of making the rebuilt engine fail significantly sooner. When rebuilding these engines, make sure to follow the latest service procedures and part numbers (liner + shim combo).
@@MrPizzaman09 Gee finally solved only took what 10-11 years. Cummins is a very poorly made engine terrible fuel economy, performance and they come a part far too easily. Cummins doesn’t stand behind their engines if you do have a problem they’ll do everything in their power to bandage the issues so the engine lasts till warranty expires then they’ll say it’s your problem. And for all practical purposes a C-12 Caterpillar will run circles around an ISX and get better fuel economy all day long even if it’s sick.
@@MrPizzaman09 Not really tough to solve just change block design to a top stop cylinder liner but give it a wide flange and a liner with a generous radius and an inch of slip fit support below the lip so the liner doesn't vibrate and rock and wear the uppers like the N14 did. The problem with mid stop cylinder liners with lots of heat cycles leads to issues with wear and distortion as seen here. The bigger the engine and the greater the stroke length the more this gets to be a problem.
There were the best motor hardly smoked didn’t burn much fuel drove a tank truck for a guy 40000 hr did the main bearing shells once were in farm tractors dusty conditions ran forever let’s get ride if that and millions spent on diesel from everyone going to the shop non stop with DEF lord help us all
@@regconrad7783 and it was nice on fuel mileage and parts were cheap , I just overhauled the peterbuilt I got with that garbage isx only had 680,000 and some change on it. Bring back the n14 bring back the 60 series Detroit and let us take a little money home to momma instead of spending it all on these garbage engines they have now
Doesn't hurt them to idle, nor run 85 all day. Diesel engines are super tough when built to close tolerance and adhered too spec's. I've idled many hours on them never had this type of issue, this is manufacturing issues!
It does hurt the newer engine to idle soot soot soot is the killer. I put a boost gage and exhaust gage on my truck. And I don't try to pull hard on hills...sounds crazy ,but it can save you
@@jlmcgraw415 Well, I hope you are keeping those rpm's up in that 1500 range or higher. Let the engine do the work, not the turbo. Downshifting is your friend.
So when you get the bores and liners properly cut does a properly set up cummins eliminate the liners dropping issues the have or has many miles to do guys get out of a properly built cummins?
@@jaredclark1829 done a few like this with good results including the ceramic manifold. They are the quickest trucks in the area. Only down side is loosing that 3rd stage brake. I haven't had any experience with the aftermarket cam to retain that function
It works well. Just gotta be careful. Have only used it on Cummins. Although might have a cat coming in this summer for a cut. I’ll make a video if so.
