Tes cutting with the Chinese Jian sword - specifically in this case testing the out-of-the-box performance of the Dynasty Forge Sky Piercing Sword: www.dynastyfor... Previous review: • Dynasty Forge Sky Pier...
Thanks, Matt. This looks like a rather nice jian. Finding 'weapons grade' Chinese swords is always a challenge. My own experience is primarily with the dao, but I have been looking for a decent jian and may invest in this one. It cuts water bottles well. After reading various treatises on the jian, I have come to the conclusion that most of them rely on the push and/or pull cut, small snap cuts to the hands or wrists, and horizontal slices across the throat with the tip. (Literally, most of them say 'do this, do this, do the other, and then end with a slice across the throat with the tip). I will have to get my hands on one and try to figure out how to test that. Again, many thanks for this video.
Longquan swords are worth looking into as well. Longquan is a city in China that is famous for the production of swords, they produce everything from cheap decorative swords to multi-thousand dollar/pound functional handmade masterpieces. Of course these swords vary wildly in construction quality and artistic value depending on the smith producing them. Still worth looking into however for a authentic Chinese sword made by hand by Chinese sword smiths. Also just my personal opinion, but now is the time to buy high end Chinese swords from China as I think it's very likely they are going to start going up in price quite dramatically in the coming years. I have personally traveled to China a few times over the last couple decades, and the price, quality and standard of everything in China is rising remarkably quickly, with average workers seeing their wages go up by 200 to 500% in the last 20 years. The time of cheap handmade Chinese stuff is coming to an end. I see a future China looking much more like modern Japan with a premium price. Chinese workers just aren't going to be working for a pittance any longer.
Check Seven Stars Trading Company in Virginia - Scott Rodell vets the reproduction swords for historical accuracy - plus designed his own cutting jian - currently $295! All the sword you'll ever need. Get you that and you'll not be disappointed. I've done a lot of business with Seven Stars and have been happy. Can't say same for SBG; they're overly heavy, overly hyped and overly expensive. SBG is Longquan same issue. Steer clear.
Idk for some reason many Chinese people love the Jian, but to be fair, it’s not a actually functioning weapon in the battles compared to spear (quant or mao, which is how we call them in mandarin) and dao (it’s a single edged blade). If u look at the Shaolin, not many monks actually want to learn this weapon but rather some thing like a staff because jian is not very deadly
笱之极意 Probably because of its strong cultural connection to traditional Han Chinese culture. (As opposed to the dao, which has extensive influence from other Central/East Asian cultures) In terms of battlefield usage the jian was supposedly a rather popular weapon among militia during the end of both Ming and Qing. Spear and staff are good too but they’re considered a different range category to swords (dedicated close range weapon vs. pseudo-long range weapon) plus they can’t be worn or carried as easily.
an staff literality doesn't have an point or an blade, and you talk about deadly? i'm pretty sure the monks picked the staff since you can carry it around in china, since you know, CCP doesn't allow civilians to carry any weapon. it's not about being deadly with the modern shaolin, your context is bonkers and ignorant.
The art of the Jian is that of "Piercing", and the cuts are the "surprise" elements of the skill. When I was first taught the art, I was taught to imitate a snake in striking. It was a very difficult skill to master. The katana was much much more intuitive.
No offense to you, but after reading what you wrote I can't shake off that feeling of... pretentiousness. :) It just sounds like something a teacher that *really* wants to sell his lessons says to make them sound that much more interesting and profound.
No offense taken, but it's the truth. The skill was good, the lessons are fun, just difficult. I stuck with the katana for 20 years since because it's more intuitive.
@@Askorti ..You'd be surprised how utterly immersed Chinese wushu-teachers are in this kind of thing. It's not about translating things badly, or something like that, either - this is actually how a lot of them talk. Even legitimately good wushu-artists use aphorisms like that, and expect it to make complete sense to everyone, including people who don't speak a word Chinese. And he's right, both the typical straightsword forms and even the saber/dao type forms are oriented around piercing and positioning rather than straight cuts. In my easyfied sharp stick form for western simpeltons and brutes (this is the technical name, translated from Chinese, I'm certain), there are.. I don't know.. 10 distinctly different draw-cuts, thrusts, nicks and pierces with the top section of the blade? And they all have distinct names in the manuals, too. And an evenly weighted, high balance point, single-edged blade of course fits perfectly with this kind of swordplay. Basically, anyone who would have worn a sword like that would have recoiled in horror at the thought of just hacking with it :p Or the teachers of the fop who wore it would have been, at least. But I mean, it's not extremely different from how Matt presents his saber in the channel either (or how Waite's manual presents it) - it's not about simply delivering a cut, it's about guarding properly, and delivering a cut without losing balance, or being obviously open to a counter. He says this constantly - that the force of the blow might not look like much in the video, but it's actually quite fast and powerful, or at least more than sufficient to injure, etc. While even the most powerful blows in actual combat would be quite different from what you would do during a test-cut in the backyard, etc. This is basic, basic stuff. And what has survived of the various chinese sword-forms are fairly obvious about this kind of thing - that simply producing a strong straight cut is worthless on it's own.
Nice performance. :-) Those movements and transistions are incredible smooth, balanced and fluid. When a true master performs in his field it looks always beautiful. Great channel. Keep up the great work.
Your left hand movement when coming back from some strikes would be almost on point with a buckler. You can try some unusual combinations like jian&buckler, then look for historical sets that would handle similarly. Look up Chinese shields, for example. It'll be fun.
I love it. It's strange because isn't it almost instinctive? The moment you grasp a sword, they almost always seem to "tell" you how they "want" to be wielded?
Indeed - I certainly find that with this type of sword, being light but having a lot of tip presence. You have to balance the inertia through movement. I didn't really think about it to be honest, it just seems normal for that type of sword.
I'll happily thrust water bottles, but unfortunately it just turns out the same with all point blades - it just goes straight through every time. Kind of boring :-)
@@scholagladiatoria i had presumed that which is why im not doing the stereotypical youtube commenter flying off the handle WHY DIDNT YOU THRUST! YOU CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING! I just hope that one day you may do another pumping dispatching session and bring this little fella along
Its a slicing,thrusting type blade...use with one hand ...a bit hard to use... Use real one like a saber without protective gear can give u some accidental cut to urself...
The Jian is not used in the same way as the Dao at all and the things he is doing with the off hand, while completely appropriate for the Dao, are extremely dangerous with the Jian. Those hand movements with the Dao are meant to push or brace the back of the blade or to grab the limbs or weapons of the other person. The use of the offhand is important in Jian Fa, but using it in the same manner as with the Dao is a good way to slice yourself very badly. I wonder if used to train in Chinese martial arts at some point? It certainly looks like he has zero experience using the Jian. However he does seem to be at least partially reproducing some saber techniques. It looks kind of like a Hema doing half remembered Chinese Dao methods and Filipino stick methods with a Jian. I'd suggest he at least try using it in the manner of Bolognese sidesword. Granted it's not at all the same as the Chinese method. But it's at least a safe way to use the weapon and probably the closest he is going to get in terms of methods he may be familiar with..
A warning to anyone thinking about purchasing this sword! After seeing these reviews I decided to buy a good friend of mine one for his wedding. I suspect they may have spent a little extra time prettying up the one they sent to Matt. While the one he received seems to have come with a pretty good edge, the sharpening job on mine was absolute trash. It was like they never finished the job. Lots of it still had a pronounced berr (as though they started to sharpen one side and then just never flipped it over) while other sections of the blade were flat-out square. It's more then I can fix with a fine Stone, and now I need to decide whether I want to risk ruining their ( admittedly very nice) polish and etch job in order to fix it. Caveat Emptor!
Random comment of the day. I'm not much of an expert on weapon usage, but I have spent a good chunk of my life learning unarmed combat, kickboxing, tkd, jujitsu, wrestling, watching this video it struck me how similar some of the concepts seem. While the foot position is very different, the concepts seem very similar, you strike while moving off line. The core concept of applying a strike while moving in a way that keeps you away from a strike hold true. There seems to be some things you can get away with when wielding a weapon you couldn't do in an unarmed situation, and I'm sure the inverse is true, but the similarities really stuck out while watching the cuts. Fun times.
Legit question: I notice the cutting post rocks somewhat, and this one is not the only one. Is this on purpose to transfer maximum energy into the target, or is it because of their rough life?
@@scholagladiatoria the part before you take a swing, where you are just getting ready and swinging your sword is very amusing for me to see! Great wrist action(winks horribly) ;)
I don’t mean to be critical. You really should learn how to cut with a Jian. Way too much effort in your cutting due to poor technique. You end up opening yourself up to being stabbed and sliced pretty easily because of the inertia that whips you around. Thank you for your videos.
I hate finding out awful things about celebrities, even Internet celebrities. I don't know if I will be able to separate the artist from the art, where Matt is concerned. Pepsi!!! Really?!
I saw the Chinese sword in shawn of the dead er no my mistake it was a cricket bat which was sharper.. .ahh so grasshopper. Lol good vide and you've got me into Messrs!
Came rather close to your left arm after the second cut... in a slicing motion no less. Thankfully it wasn't a different type of cut test... testing a jacket against a slice cut.
I know people will say hes copying skall but would love to see matts versions of the stab test whit his swords kind of curious to see how a tulwar would perform
Matt, if you haven't yet, please have a talk with Scott Rodell. He is quite knowledgeable on jian and dao and has studied the historical manuals and such. Quite a source of historical knowledge which is sadly rare in the chinese arts. I came up learning dao, but most of it was form only and the practical application had been lost. Scott help translate and correct much our form.
Why no? He is a multi book published author and he has studied the actual historical texts including the green standard army, etc. Not sure why you would brush that off.
@@chrisfields8077 reverse grip for one. Each of those parries were too weak to displace the tip...even if they did not hit AFTER the tip would have hit their mark had he not dodged or in one of the cases the user basically made an attack that had no chance of hitting. If you dodge an attack, there is NO reason to waste energy tapping thier weapon. With the spear user not moving back after the first dodge, it should have ended there.
Becareful making assumptions of power and such. I made that mistake too. He's showing actual techniques from historical chinese manuals. Demo's aren't always perfect. Certain not worth blowing off a person's studies based on one video.
@@ColdNapalm42"there is NO reason to waste energy tapping thier weapon." www.londonfencingclub.co.uk/news/106-priority-right-of-way-in-foil-fencing There's something called right of way. If you made a habit of NOT considering it, that would be a very bad habit. "In the duelling times it was considered a very dangerous practice to attack your opponent while he is attacking you. This often resulted in both being killed. No winner, no satisfaction, just pure and bloody death. The ability to stop or evade the attack before hitting back was a crucial skill. To teach this, the fencing schools developed the concept of priority which meant the discourage the simultaneous attacks. It is also known as the right of way." (see source above) Tapping the blade establishes right of way, a parry then followed by a reposte. In and of itself, it might not be contextually necessary, if you win you win, BUT always respecting the opponents weapon seems like the better idea.
Interesting and fun video, Thanks! I have to say, every time I look at a jian I think "Lovely sword! That blade would go really well with a side-sword or basket hilt..."
So this sword is not primarily a cutter. The cuts are small, fluid, and quick, mostly against the arms or hands, but it does parry a lot, almost always with a side movement or some kind of evasion. Its certainly not a katana or long sword. There is a lot of thrusting though.
I used to own a jian that was a cheap ($60) spring steel sword. I did a cutting competition against someone with a very expensive katana. I won. Then I went on to see what else I could cut. Someone had a minivan bumper, which fell off. I went right through it. It's the swordsman's technique, not the sword.
During the he cutting you can't really hear anything but the wind. If you have time next time you cut, maybe you can just overlay some music and commentary over it.
I'm curious to know how a jian blade would feel if it were mounted to a Scottish basket hilt or spadroon hilt. What kind of difference would be there when more weight is added to the handle?
You said it was for balance in another comment, but could you do a vid on the sword movement or flourishes you did before cutting? I've seen similar in Bolognese sidesword vids and have done similar in a point work sense in foil fencing, but wasn't sure if it was merely a sort of shadow boxing or some kind of transitional feint.
All the swords I see are trying to replicate the historical types, what if gun were never invented, what would a 21 first century ultimate sword that would be impossible to build with older technology look like ?
@Jon Goat I think You're missing the point. The point was " what is a futuristic design that couldn't be made until in 21 century ". Like a carbon fiber titanium sword or something. I didn't ask what should I buy!
@@dondovahkiin7899 Titanium would be unlikely, it isn't exactly a good blade material. For pricier stuff it would probably be some kind of high quality exotic stainless alloy for good performance and easy maintenance in the field. But yeah, if we didn't have guns I imagine the best battlefield weapon for close combat would be a flamethrower. Though I imagine the battlefield would generally look like robot wars, with various kinds of armored vehicles trying to flip one another over because there would be no other way to disable them.
@@raics101 yes flamethrowers are good , even when guns are invented, used in ww2 , Vietnam, etc. However the question is what would be the ultimate sword( don't even bring up light sabers :D) . I think aluminum alloys used in planes, flexible, carbon fiber core, maybe a size changing mechanism for reach adjustments and flexibility, electrocution implemented, or a supper hot edge made by tungsten , etc .
@@dondovahkiin7899 Well, there's a conceptual flaw to weapons that extend as you strike, namely they lose speed because their center of gravity shifts so the coriolis effect kicks in. In any case we haven't advanced to the tech level where we can make things like the ivy sword from soul calibur. I imagine it would be just better quality materials. One thing we have advanced at the most are electronics, I think, but there are limited ways to apply that to melee combat, maybe a sword with a microprocessor that shifts its weight depending on your swing or aligns itself. Combining a tazer and a sword might seem appealing but the battery would add weight and insulating armor would be no problem today.
That Jian looks too short for Mr Easton. Held under the guard by the fingers, with a straight arm, the tip should come approx. level with the top of the ear. At 6', most require a 33" or 34" blade.
I'm glad you made the comparison to the Roman Spatha because I was thinking that throughout the video how it looks so much like my Spatha. Nice sword skills too.
You look like an Arnisador here in the Philippines doing that sword dance. That said, it doesn't look fitting to a Jian because Jians are double-edged and Bolos are single-edged.
I crapped on ya kind of hard on your first jian video which wasn't my real intention. I'll say you started figuring out the movement and body position closer to the end and quit moving like it was a saber and more like you were an chinese martial artist. Again. I still don't love the repro.
In a lot of the movies and martial arts demonstrations, it is flexible to the point of being floppy. How flexible is the real thing and does it hurt the cutting ability?
I made a pair of jian years ago but I made them a lot stiffer than the standard Tai Chi model... the customer wanted something more serious than what the local suppliers carried.
A suggestion on edge alignment...... Traditionally (at least where I learned it) the index finger or thumb was put in the center of the guard to achieve edge location
scholagladiatoria and yours too just for good measure My point still stands regardless you yourself said you where clueless on Chinese swords so my take mock with some slow mo ninja gorilla sheet for?? Why not just cut the damn things as you would with say any other one handed sword?? If I’m mistaken and this is genuinely a style you learn then I apologise but it just looked strange to me is all but then again I’m mainly a katana user
There is something strange about the plastic that most soda bottles are made out of. The last time I was cutting with my Albion Principe it was slicing and dicing like a champ. Tatami, no problem. Milk jugs, your kidding right? The first two or three soda bottles flew off the stand neatly cleaved in twain. The next soda bottle was full to the very top. I could tell from the way it felt in my hand that there wasn't any appreciable room for compression. I checked my measure, committed to a well executed oberhau/kesa-giri , and the bottle goes pinwheeling through the air. Intact. I could tell from the way the impact felt that everything was lined up correctly, and at the center of percussion of the sword. Upon inspection, I found that other than a few lawn trimming, there wasn't even a mark at the point of impact. I double-checked my edge, and confirmed its sharpness. I was determined to not let the bottle get the better or me, and put it back on the stand. This time I came straight down, the sword effortless cleaved through the cap, the neck, and down the center to the top of the cutting stand. From one angle this bottle was invincible, and from another it was easily cut. I have no clue why.
Plastic bottles also vary a lot by brand, size, drink type and by geographic location. A Coke bottle in the UK is not exactly the same as a Coke bottle in France. Ginger Beer bottles are terrible to cut - very thick plastic to prevent explosion. Milk bottles in the UK are like paper to cut - very very easy.
scholagladiatoria, also, these are _polymers_ (mostly PET) and their "molecules" consist of thousands of atoms, or more. I'm certain than some compositions are *not* isotropic, and their physical properties depend on the alignment of those molecular strands. So, a localized part of the bottle could really be harder to cut depending on the direction of the hit... I'm not sure about PET, though. We should ask a chemist - I'm not one :)
I turned the sound right down to almost zero on the cutting part of this video because it was pointless trying to record any audio out there. I already have a 'dead cat', but that does not solve the problem of a storm in the background.
