I think it’s important to mention why Grave Domain allows for resurrection from the dead. They are dedicated towards a respect for life, and while death is natural… if it’s can be avoided it should. If you can be brought back without turning to undeath, then it’s simply not your time yet. Xanathar’s Guide mentions this explicitly
@@coco101martin my apologies, I must have gotten it mixed up with a different spell. Thank you for the correction, in hindsight I should have made sure before correcting you
I love it for it's roleplay, but I do think it may have needed at least one core combat ability like warding flare from light cleric was phenomenal. Which is a shame because when you look at subclasses you often look for combat abilities.
As someone who played a grave cleric in a level 1-20 campaign, I can absolutely say that I used Path to the Grave a lot to coordinate with our rogue's sneak attack A LOT and it was amazing
@@esperthebard Wow, 1st time I've been commented by the content creator. So ... we were all basically on deaths doorway being attacked by a home brew undead boss. All my healing spells were used up. It's my very first use of the Divine intervention feature ... I rolled a 07. The whole room blew up in cheers. The DM decided that, because I was a life domain cleric, all our hit points were back to full and all spells were given back. The dungeon boss still put up quite a fight, but it fell hard and we all survived!
I have been waiting forever for this one. I have even said so on all your prior rankings. NOW, before I watch the video, there is one obvious winner here, and I am sure you did not pick it, so as soon as I finish watching I'll share my most beloved (and esoteric) build with you :)
Okay, done, so, Tempest got 12th - just saying, this is one of the absolute best classes for synergy, as long as you pick the right feats or multiclass. For monoclass: Tempest Cleric (8) + Polearm Master + Spell Sniper (Booming Blade) + Warcaster. For multiclass: Tempest Cleric (2) + Draconic Sorceror (5) + Metamagic (Transmuted Spell). Can you guess the combos? :)
@@thewaver8 Tempest clerics are so much fun. If the enemy gets in your face, they get the wacky melee knock back combo... and if they don't, they eat blast spells that can get maximized AFTER they fail the save.
Getting ready to play a cleric in a low to mid magic campaign. Haven't figured out which Domain to go with. Peace, Grave, Death, Arcana are the ones I've narrowed it down to. Hopefully this video will help me make the choice.
Esper, one small thing that you didn't notice With the Grave Domain, you can always maximize your healing on a fallen ally, casting Spare the Dying as a bonus action first (bringing your ally to 0 HP) and then casting the most powerfull healing spell, maximizing the dice with the 1° level ability form the Grave Domain I think this makes the Grave Domain a lot better, mainly because it helps your friends to not get unconscious again after you just healed them But wow, what an awesome review. I love your videos man!
Spare the Dying just stabilizes someone who is at 0 hp (so they don't have to make death saving throws). You mentioned bringing your ally to 0 HP, but 0 is already the lowest HP can go. Negative hit points has not been a thing since 3E.
The weirder thing about tempest is the only lightning damage they do is their first level feature and call lightning. It can be combined with that first level feature VERY effectively but how weird is it that call lightning can have a lightning bolt strike behind a target and they fly away from you (not where the bolt struck) but destructive wave can’t knock people back? Meanwhile they have literally every spell that does thunder damage 1-5 except for thunder step
Imagine if you could apply the thunderbolt strike feature with thunder damage ...this sub-class would most likely be the strongest subclass of all ...Booming Blade, regular attacks, Thunderwave, Shatter, etc. I am pretty sure they controlled the spells that the Cleric could use this feature with for a reason.
@@Herbalizer28 what thunder class does this class have? Thunder wave which already pushes people back you just push them further. Sure you can get a feat to get booming blade (that spell didn’t exist yet so it did not influence the design decision) but level 8 your attacks push back too so who cares. And destructive wave and that’s it. Destructive wave is good. But how op is it to push someone back with a weapon attack as a cleric?
@@Mr_Maiq_The_Liar Good point on booming blade not being available yet when this subclass was created, but before the Crushing feat, pushing people 10ft everytime you hit them would have been considered pretty strong for crowd control. You could push them off cliffs, push them in area of effect spells, etc..This could also work with Shatter, everytime. So not only could you maximize damage, but you could push everything away by 10 ft !! Then again, there isn't much thunder spells, so the Tempest Cleric covers most of them ...and this would mean that creatures could be pushed 10ft. pretty much all the time. It's already a strong class, they didn't need to make it game breaking, like most classes from Tasha's...
@@Herbalizer28 power creep is a serious problem. I guarantee if it were printed today it would push back back with thunder and probably fly at level 6 and a bunch of other redonks buffs
Are you really? Do you have an interesting or peculiar stories from your experience in that line of work? If so, shoot me an email esperthebard@gmail.com
@@esperthebard unfortunately being a cemetery/gravedigger is quite boring,hard work, but it comes with cool stories from the loved ones you meet during the burial about the person who's pasted. And a few things to note about the job for coolness I guess but oddly ravens love cemeteries, also walking in cemetery stomping around near a head stone you can feel the "Hallowed" ground below, also like 90% of men die around 10-15 years before the wife just from reading headstones. Also being the person to make sure not only the casket or urn gets put into the ground but I'm there long after filling in the hole and making sure it's looking nice, being the last human interaction with many pasted loved ones is very fulfilling. It's a connection to nature I never thought I would have. 5 years in love with the work , and any jokes about people dying to get in here or dying to join the party are welcome lol
@@tresser8798 Wow, that's true, you are often that last human interaction before the body is laid into its final resting place. What a thing. I've actually always liked cemeteries, especially ones with old gravestones, tombs, overgrown plants, and such. I usually go to a cemetery a few times a year to write poetry, take in the quiet natural elements, and walk around looking at gravestones wondering who the people were and what they did in life.
I agree. That or it should've replaced the Druid class entirely from a core design standpoint, but D&D is well past being able to make a change like that this many editions in.
Harvest Domain would be a good name, it could stray a little from the druid, being a connection between civilization and Nature, rather then its protector, the roleplay and worldbuilding potencial its great
Twilight sanctuary is game breaking at low levels. At 1st level gaining 2-7 temp hit points that regenerate every single round without using any concentration? Its more damage than the average goblin does in a hit.
Imagine, over the course of a few hours, the Forge Cleric making the fighter a full suit of plate armor, starting with the helmet, moving on to the chest plate and pauldrons, then the gauntlets and arm protection, and finally, the greaves and leg protection. That would be one hell of a gift, especially at low levels.
Esper, nice touch to the heartstrings when you mention "even bring fallen allies back to life" and you showed the picture of Aleena the cleric (who died in the Basic Boxset).
@@esperthebard I actually exaggerated when I said marathon. What I actually did is I ran from my neighbour's house to the forest with almost no brakes and back. By the end of it my clothes were soaked in sweat, losed 1.7 kg and my dad had go after my with the car to tell me that I got into bear territory.
Both of the bond features should honestly be two rankings higher. Anyone who's played a game with a Peace cleric knows how potent a +5 on average from Bless & Bond is.
Could be the new ness, of the subclass, or the problem with roleplaying a peace cleric on the whole. But yes it is really strong, but I find it also needs teamwork, having a group of players who rush up and hit things and the other half stay put in most combats I can see it being difficult to balance a viewpoint.
My favorite class, next to paladin! And I'm in agreement about the Light domain. I'm currently playing a Light cleric who serves a Sun God that also serves as a God of Fire. My DM gave me Produce Flame as a domain spell.
@@esperthebard That makes the most sense to me. Nearly all Light clerics I've seen have served a Sun God specifically, even though some other deities are listed as having access to the domain. Sun Dad is just too popular, I suppose. Praise be unto Pelor!
I think you're underrating both emboldening and protective bond. The duration of EB means you can activate it before combat so you don't have to waste an action (or concentration like you mentioned), and a "free" bless effect is really strong even if you aren't stacking it with other enhancement effects (which as a peace cleric you likely will). Wrt PB reaction based teleports that don't require a spell slot are uncommon and powerful, even if they are situational; particularly if your party members know you will be running a Peace Cleric at character creation and can build accordingly.
Welcome back Esper! I truly enjoy your videos on class breakdowns and subclass rankings. So great job there, and please keep them coming. These are my absolute favorite type of content you produce. I truly enjoyed all the artwork examples as you guided us thru the rankings and talk of lore. I have/am playing a Grave Cleric and completely agree with your assessment. I enjoy it, but slightly unfulfilled at the same time. Again, welcome back, and thank you for the best ranking video you have made yet. More please!
I'm glad to see that you, like me, seem to read the twilight sanctuary feature as creating a bubble of dim light, rather than simply emitting as a regular light source.. there's been quite some disagreement about that particular aspect.
I never would have imagined people interpreting that as meaning regular light. The name is *twilight sanctuary*, so obviously it's an area of dim illumination (darker than bright light, lighter than pure darkness).
Great breakdown as always; going to push back slightly on the final assessment of the Nature Domain. The spell list is very nice for what it is designed to do: allow you to actually play a good control-centric cleric, and it's arguably the only one that does control magic well. It's also the "King of Nope" as the vast majority of its effects are automatic or only allow for one save: you can just impose resistance to natural damage, automatically cause ranged attacks to fail (Wind Wall), automatically reduce speed by 1/4 (or 1/8 with 2d4 damage if you stack Plant Growth and Spike Growth), and potentially charm someone's mount if you're up against cavalry. So while a lot of the abilities are niche (and thematic), those niches all fit together to give a powerful control mage, and arguably one of the best at 5th level and below.
It's not bad (and I do appreciate people utilizing niche things in creative ways), but I'd rather just play a druid to accomplish all that plus get the best druid options, like conjure animals and wild shape.
These class ranking (or any ranking) video is by far the best you do. I watch them over and over and still dig them every single time. Your narration is like a hypnotic pattern spell. You’re the best man. Please keep making these ranking videos.
It would be really rad to have a grave cleric that refused to revive the dead as they see it as their proper end, even PCs. Of course I can never imagine anyone doing this in game cause youd get banned from every game table lol.
Alternative rationalization: since you're getting the magic from your God, if it works it wasn't really their time. If it WAS their time, the spell would fizzle.
I think you missed one... where is the chaos domain? We have an order cleric so we could have one for chaos. Joking btw ;) but seriously I think there should be chaos/winter/disease domain... Although since I'm pretty new to DnD I'm not sure how that would work... maybe a focus on area-effect spells with an chance of friendly fire on fail-safes in the case of a chaos cleric... the winter could focus on slow, sleep, and cold spells and the disease could focus on effects over time.
Great, thanks a lot, Esper. Oh, and I just got to say that I always loved the two Elmore illustrations shown from 01:55-02:00. Though I'm more into Easley's work, these two b/w ones from the D&D box-set are so awesome.
Quickened spell isn't as amazing on a cleric as it is on a sorcerer because they're likely to have a spiritual weapon out, which does more damage as a bonus action than a cantrip does as an action. That order feature's main benefit is mostly to use your action to cast either your channel divinity or your divine intervention. But both are limited where as order clerics are likely to be spamming enchantment spells seeing as they have bless blindness and command and a expanded spell list full of them. That or to save a single spell slot not putting a spiritual weapon up. Which is kinda sad
I think Divine Intervention should be at least B Tier. It doesn't just function in combat encounters. It can be used for massive story progression. Whatever your god is willing to help you with can change the entire course of a campaign.
i think this is one of your most well done videos, i listened to it on an 8 hour road trip like 8 months ago, and i’m revisiting it now that i’m finally playing a cleric for Descent into Avernus. I love recommending your videos to my players, but the length of them turns them off. they struggle watching 10 min videos, let alone an hour and a half ones
Personally I think Tempest and Forge are the most fun. With a change or two I'd play Grave, I agree it should be entirely anti undead instead of making any. I like the idea of trickery, but its just not developed the way I want to play. Even then I'd buff Tempest's 17 as well as resistances to thunder and lightning earlier on (basically storm sorcerrer's capstone but split up, heck let you pick one resist then you get the other later.) For forge I'd let you get proficiency with any armor or weapon you make so this limits you a bit early and means you have to make the item first to then use a magic item you might find. I think the other domain I'd love to see is a Hearth Cleric that's really built on old folktales and the home, have a lot of strong safe spells but highly immobile. Have some cool buffs to rests and things too: remove extra exhaustion, improved healing from your hit dice, maybe even gain the benefits of a rest without sleep making the hearth cleric a true defender of their resting allies.
I looked up a bit about Tempest (since I'm a 2e person, so not a lot of knowledge on 5e), as to why heavy armor and martial weapons - "Common backgrounds for this class include vikings and warlords" so I get the idea of priest who follows Zeus or Thor, so they would certainly be battle/martial in focus. Also if you're thinking the Tempest surrounding ocean storms, a trident is a martial weapon, so there's that.
In my games, Tempest domain clerics follow Kord, who's a real melee-combat guy. That matches the flavor of the domain as well, since you get heavy armor and martial weapons.
I've said this before: Life domain clerics getting the healing spells as their domain spells is *the best* option for a Cleric who is healing-focused. Having those spells always prepared means you don't have to pick them, which lets you have all kinds of other utility options available to you depending on the situation. It's like those old American Express commercials: Never leave home without your heals. Also, Peace Domain? It's a highly watered-down version of Unity Domain, which was *so much better.* It's not bad, but it's much, *much* weaker than it could have been. Unity would *easily* be the top domain if it were implemented as it was in the UA.
I agree on all points here, but I will say they could've added like a few spells from say druid or bard to help it feel not as bad, even if it's good it's not exciting spell list wise. Good berry would've been my choice and it is missing aura of vitality,(iF I recall).
The all heavy armor and martial weapons for the Tempest cleric, is so someone can play a heavy armor viking with two hand weapons who is a champion of Thor.
@@off6848 If you're going to be technical about it, light is literally what prevents us from falling through the ground and holds electron shells around atoms and atoms together into molecules.
Trickery domain is my absolute favorite, they give me a divine assassin kind of feel with their affinity for stealth, shadows and even raising the dead. And invoke duplicity remains my favorite ability in the game ❤
For the Grave capstone, I flavor it as when a soul is passing on, not all of the energy that is part of them on this plane can pass on with them, you're just taking the excess.
I always wondered why light domain wasn't called fire domain. You'd think being called the light domain they'd deal radiant damage, vision modifying effects, and maybe mobility options but not really. I also never under why if they're just going to throw around heavy armor proficiencies randomly why not just give that to the whole class?
My take on why some cleric subclasses get three level one features and others don't, is because some subclasses get bonus proficiencies in armor or weapons, which isn't much of a bonus, thematically speaking.
I'm currently playing a Half-Drow Twilight Cleric in a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign and I LOVE IT. We played the other night and had a battle with some young white dragons & chardalyn berserkers. In that one battle I was able to - buff everyone with Bless, do massive damage to everything with Spiritual Weapon, explode a head with a max damage Toll the Dead, bring up two downed teammates with Mass Healing Word, dispel the magic flame that was making the berserkers basically immortal, and then cast Tiny Hut so we could take a break lol probably the most versatile subclass I've ever played.
As a 90s kid i discovered dnd woefully late. First game i played was a 5e game but ill admit it was the allure of older more brutal styles of play that ultimately enticed me into the hobby.
the 5e healing is fine rest is basic rescores management the game has ways of fixing this with the heal skill but not many classes have the heal skill in 3.5 I think what makes 5e healing OP are death saves (healing by 1 is enough to bring you back despite taking massive damage) negative health needs to track if you have negative 20 hp for example you should need to heal by 21 hp with healing by 1 stabilizing it's combat relevant not rest relevant and that is why I see this as an issue if anything it should be a feat like Diehard
Okay, just had a thought: for those of us who miss the 3.5 Archivist for a Cleric domain of "Syncretism:" basically, Arcana but instead of Wizard it's a mix of spells from other divine lists (probably mostly Druid cause some of the Paladin/Ranger spells can be kinda ludicrous if acquired too early) possibly with some practical anti-curse magics (cause of the flavor of the original 3.5 class), replace arcane abjuration with an ability to reveal secrets of enemy monsters to apply debuffs like a reverse bardic inspiration (I'd limit possible targets by what skills you have proficiency in as a callback to how Archivists dark knowledge was based on knowledge checks), and the capstone includes that you acquire your choice of 2-3 spells of any level from any of Druid, Ranger, Paladin, or any other domain's spell list (but spell out that it does not include other domain features so no Wish).
I played a life Cleric/Monk of Ilmater he dual wielded whips to bring punishment to those who would hurt innocents. Along with his healing ability from the life Cleric. And some extra spells that the monk ki did not give me
I had an idea recently for a Forge Domain Gnoll Cleric based on the Ethiopian Myth of the Buda "WereHyena" being tied up in anti-semitic beliefs about Jews. I decided to reverse the the discriminatory nature of the Werehyena by owning it so people who use it as an insult have no power. So Why a Forge Domain Cleric? Ethiopian Jews have been long associated with being artisans like Blacksmithing, Pottery, Glassmaking, etc...and this was also thought to be a reason they were accused of being Magical Witches and Wizards or secret Hyena monsters using Fire to transform seemingly useless material like Rock, Mud, and Sand into Metal, Ceramic, and Glass. I also thought it would also be fun to be a Rabbi in a traditional D&D fantasy european setting spouting jewish jokes like how in Mel Brooks' "Robin Hood: Men in Tights" replaced Friar Tuck with Rabbi Tuckman played by Mel Brooks himself.
How about a Compassion Domain (IE the Good domain). It will take me a while to think of what they should get but here's what I have, just off the top of my head. Bonus spells: 1. Charm Person, Cure Wounds 3. Calm Emotions, Detect Thoughts 5. Aura of Vitality, Intellect Fortress 7. Charm Monster, Death Ward 9. Greater Restoration, Awaken Level 1. Bonus Proficiencies: You become proficient with heavy armor, persuasion, and healers' kits. Empathy with the Enemy: Choose an enemy within 30 feet. For an hour you have advantage on persuasion checks in order to get them to not attack you, your allies or innocents. Words of Comfort: Choose an ally within 30 feet. You can speak words of comfort to that ally, which relieves a single negative status effect on them once per every short rest. This gets bumped up to twice at level six, and four times at level 17.
A fine listen indeed. Paired with a very well articulated segment to get people to sub. Makes me want to expand my vocabulary some lol As a relatively new player to DND still, the cleric classes that catch my attention the most are Tempest, Trickery, Peace and Grave. Not the best for imagining things or reflavoring, but the one for Peace where you can heal allies by physical touch seems a tad goofy, imagining it.
I’d like to see Esper react to dice try’s color philosophy and how it relates to dnd, especially his video suggesting it as a replacement for alignment
Tempest clerics best use is as a 2 Tempest cleric levels X wizard/sorcerer levels so you can channel divinity for full lightning damage on lightning bolt and later chain lightning and get the ability to wear armor. 80 for the initial target and 80 80 80 for the three other targets on chain lightning is some stupendous damage. 320 damage with a single spell is rarely going to be beat unless you have a bunch of creatures in some large ae. Can even upcast it for another 80 to 1 more target for each level above 6th. Cast at 8th its 480 damage dealt as 80 to 6 targets.
I actually found one heck of a way to use the tempest domain channel divinity. This would be a dual-class along with the wizard, either with the evoker or the other that lets you access the spell that makes chain between two opponents. This chain is special because when one takes damage the other takes the same amount, the downside is that if one heals the other does as well. So you can chain two & do a lightning bolt or chain lightning then maximise damage with channel divinity essentially getting two max damage spells out in one turn. Speaking of max damage this is what high level play can do. Meteor swarm (min is 19th level because cleric). Now if you haven't thought of Lightning or thunderball at this point in which the evoker would be great for let me tell you how we get them. Metamagic adept with transmuted spell, turn that fire into lightning or thunder damage then maximise output. Okay so may have picked up what I'm saying at this point so lets drive it home :) Evoker to protect allies or other wizard subclass to chain two enemies together or an ally may do this. Meteor swarm, transmute into thunder or lightning, channel divinity. Minimum damage is 140 on successful saves or if chained 280, this does not include resistance or immunity. Max damage is 240 like normal or 480 if chained.
