Extremely technical and well documented review. I mostly liked the time proof argument, people's adherence to a specific model and, of course the complete analysis of sound, including especially depth in front-back dimension. Congrats!
16:36 And that is why I will never buy another DCA headphone, at least with this style of pads. My Aeon 2s have been a nightmare to deal with. The internet is full of threads on how the pads loose shape over time, cause channel imbalance, are senstive to placement on the head, losing seal, the list goes on. There is even a thread on Headfi called "padgate" regarding this issue. I hope they fix this problem for these 4000$ headphones, and that people like them, but I won't be taking the plunge to find out either way. Anyway, great review as always~
@@juliangst I'm not the only one, plenty of people reporting the same problem. Mine is going in for warranty repairs then I am selling them, if possible.
Another great video. I really appreciate them, thanks. Haven't 'upgraded' in ages as own a HD800S and LCD-X, and tbh I don't really need to. Nice to keep abridge of things though.
I have a modified 8xx, different pads to get enough bass, and I've taken out the lining they added on the inside of the cups to try and get the 800s top end. Did you buy the LCD-X after the 800s? and do you think it's worth it having both headphones?
@@travism4234 Yes, got the LCDs after the 800S. It's a more complete headphone tbh. Haven't tried out tubes on the Sennheisers yet, but may sell them soon - money is getting tight these days.
@@Jamie-666 I recently bought a XDUOO TA-10R tube amp, still waiting for it to arrive, because I’m curious to see how the Sennheisers sound on tubes. But yes it’s an expensive lifestyle!
Excellent review! Probably the best, even handed one I’ve seen so far. There’s really nothing you’ve said that I’d disagree with. The only thing that I would add is to take whatever time DCA advises for burn-in and double it. At least that’s been my experience with their headphones. I will most likely never own the Expanse or the Stealth because I just can’t justify its price based on the existence of the Aeon 2 line. I own the Aeon 2 Noire and I just can’t rationalize in my mind what could be done to essentially the same “skin” to make either of them 4x the price!😮. If they had introduced them at 2k, it would be a different story!
Thanks. And understandable. I don't think Expanse fall to the $2k performance level generally speaking. I think the only reason that a $2K MSRP unit all-around bests it right now is because HiFiMan dropped HekV2 to $2K. I don't know what HiFiMan is up to, but aggressive pricing on that one likely means they have something up their sleeve. But generally speaking, I think $3K would have been a fairer price for the Expanse.
The direction that the strings face on a violin doesn’t determine the direction of the sound. It’s much more complex than that since the body of the violin contains the resonance chamber which amplifies the vibration of the strings. This is one of the reasons that correct posture is stressed by teachers.
Yep. I realized the resonance thing after the fact 🤦. And the broader point still stands. Most instruments have a small area from whuch the majority of the soundwaves emanate. Even instruments like acoustic guitars and violins focus the resonant output from holes in the body. The human voice coming from the mouth is another example of a nearly point-sized source. None of that changes, however, that I still don't hear a larger than point source image from Expanse over and above other $4k models.
To your point of what does $4K get you? Well, you could spend $4,000 on one, or you could enhance your overall listening experience with a variety of cans that would include Arya, LCD-X, and Focal Clear for approximately the same money. When one gets too familiar, listen to another for awhile. Variety in presentation helps keep your music library fresh. These three cans rotated with each other should also withstand the test of time. This approach makes more sense to me for the money.
This is a valid point. Having a collection to rotate through does indeed stave off boredom. It's also true that there is (usually, there are some exceptions) a massive performance jump from a system built around $1500 headphones to one built around flagship models. Each person has to decide where the value is for them.
@@chungang7037 We didn't say we don't look at graphs. Two of us said we look at then only if we hear something for which we want an explanation. All of us agreed we don't elevate graphs over actual listening.
@@dangerzone007 measurements and graphs can indeed be helpful. I also think that the review-sphere is saturated with measurements. Me adding to that doesn't feel helpful. The unique thing I can offer is my interpretations and explanations of what I hear and my user experiences. I also don't know that measurement reports are required for growth or success. Some of the biggest channels don't put graphs on the screen and publications like Stereophile have been around for decades without them.
I have been listening to reviews for many years and I concur you provide the most realistic view of HPs. I agree 100% on the DCA Expanse. Truly, this HP is overpriced. It is a HC neutral HP, and that is it. If you like that than you will be happy with any DCA HP. Dan Clark nails it. If you want flavor to your HP experience than this HP is not for you. I have been the owner of DCA HPs and I lose interest after 6 months. Now, if the HP was more comfortable like my Sen 700 than it could become a great gaming or movie HP. The issue is that is not comfortable. This HP will not age well, agree.
I just got the expanse and only have a few hours on them. Good to note you can buy them for 3400 from DCA if you are in Club DCA (basically anyone who's bought a headphone from them in the past). Build is really impressive but would agree it's sensitive to seal and placement on your head. My references for headphones so far is Susvara and LCD-4 and it keeps up with those imo. I am running them on speaker amps tho lol and that seems to give it more macro performance over a normal headphone amp. Curious how these change with the break-in you mention.
In some of the coverage of Camjam Socal a number of people said they had already outright bought the expanse, I think, that 600 dollar savings maybe explains it.
@@final3119 I actually sold them about 6 months ago. I enjoyed them a lot but I was getting fatigue over time. I think due to the treble presentation, it just sounded sharp to me.
That’s an interesting headphone, but every time I hear the price tag I feel a bit odd. It does not seem like a really high quality headphone by the looks of it. I do admire the headband adjustement design and the folding mechanism though. Really mixed feelings for me.
Two very different experiences. The new RAAL is much more dynamic and slammy but a bit peaky and wonky in its tuning. Expanse is more accurate in its sound but overpriced IMO. I think CA-1a is a better deal at MSRP.
@@MatusHaw It showcased the capabilites of his HPs much better than any SS did at the time. Though, today the Mass Kobo 465 drives the Stealths even better. I haven't tried the Expanse or E3 on 465 yet. I wonder if Dan will add that to his demo fleet
Thank you so much for this great review! You and resolve are the two reviewers that I not only trust, but also would not have any unsolved questions on a pair after watching one of your reviews. Your assessment also turned out to be almost exactly what I guessed, based on my impression with the stealth. I do think DCA is getting close to making something that could stand firmly in the $4000 bucket and I really wish they will soon, since their Aeons has better comfort to me than any $4000+ models, including the Susvara and Empyrean.
I had auditioned the Expanse and I agree with you that it is behind the HE1000se sonically in most traits. However, I do find your comparison of expanse and stealth to the other $4000 flagships to be somewhat inconsistent: you said in your $4000 headphone shootout that Stealth is roughly performing on the same level as LCD 5 and utopia (Resolutions, separation, staging, etc), and yet here you place the Expanse behind them. So does it mean Stealth is ahead of the Expanse (which would be odd, given that expanse is the open version of Stealth with slight tuning adjustment) ?
4k with elastic..... my akg after 3 years the elastic stopped working properly and the headphone just seated on top of my head sliding all over.... paying 4k I expected to be buried with the headphone on my head without ever have to fix it
Nice honest review and comparison's man. I'm hoping there might be an HEKse vs HEK V2 comparison coming in the future? If it's close between them the HEK V2 at $2K is a VERY appealing HP for many. As far as that cable point you made... the worst cable connection to a headphone I've ever experienced was with the HD 800s. You can literally ruin/break the 800s if you don't know exactly how to pull the cable connection out of the cups. It's an asinine setup. I think it was one of the main reasons I chose to sell my 800s over other headphones when having to let one go for other audio stuff. And I agree that many headphones are way overpriced. I understand the R&D gets factored into price... but some HP's are just out of whack with their pricing. I'll make a point with the the other side of it with ZMF for instance where Zach has been developing different sound sigs and tunings with the drivers for years for the different ZMF models... yet I feel the price of ZMF headphones are pretty much on the money as far as price to performance goes. I recently got a New Stabilized Auteur Classic for $1900. And after seeing and hearing them I feel like I got great value with them like they are more of a $3K price range type headphone. So it is totally fair when you point out when a headphone just doesn't justify it's price tag... and when a headphone punches way above it's price tag like the HEK V2
Hekse review is coming soon. A detailed comparison with HekV2 will be part of it. It's the first time I've been able to A/B like Hifiman versions with and without their stealth magnets.
Sorry to hear that. I didn't like the Diana TC either. I definitely get why you might be disappointed. But, it also is not representative of $4k+ headphones either.
Talking about point sources of sound... forget about the size of the instrument ! You record the sound with microphones . So you have pin point sources, the diaphragm of the capsule, or a construction from stereo miking techniques with two point sources . What you hear should be contained within the recording , not determined by the headphone . Sounds like marketing speak for excusing slightly smudged imaging ability.
if HIFIMAN would drop the price of the susvara to the $3500 figure he couldn't make them fast enough... and obviously thats a high dollar cost at that price...
Thanks again for going into the burn-in journey. I for one believe in burn-in, especially when it comes to Planar drivers. May I ask what tracks you use for burn-in? Do you have a playlist you can share?
I have a large portion of my music files copied to a laptop I don't use very often. Several days worth of music time-wise. I'll set that up with a dac and amp I'm not currently using, make sure windows doesn't hibernate, and let it rip for a few days uninterrupted with all that music on shuffle. It's a lot of cladsic rock, hard rock, metal, film soundtracks, classical, with a sprinkling of edm, hip-hop, and jazz. There's no real trick. You just need toet the drivers operate for a long time.
Here we go with the burn-in crap again. In fact, there may be some measure of truth to it, but I don't believe it's to the extent you are describing. And if you do have to go through all that you described for a 4 THOUSAND dollar set, they would be going right back. I look at the build of these things and I sure don't see 4 thousand bucks. But hey, whatever floats your boat. Still a good review, I always enjoy your work.
You mentioned that the staging is a bit 2d. Do you mean this headphone does not have a holographic or egg shaped stage and imaging around one's head? That seems surprising for the price tag... edit: Ah you mention it later on, I see now. Thanks for that!
I don't think the Harman target is a problem in and of itself. I think the challenge is hitting the target without sacrificing the things that help with dynamics, staging depth, micro level resolution, etc. My guess is it's just really hard to hit Harman AND still be great at those other things in a headphone
IMO you are wrong about the violin, a lot is about transmitting the vibration to the body via the bridge, that’s why great violins can get so expensive, all the woodwork is important, and you can near it, so, the sound of a violin is about the size of a football
I know, Who The Heck made this thirsty headphone fold up??? I have the Noire. I got it for night listening when traveling. It chuckled and laughed at the ifi Hip DAC. I did more research and then got the Gryphon. All is very good now. The Diablo should have plenty of muscle for the Expanse.
hmm... so we have a $4000 ( Expanse ) vs the $1999 Hifiman HE1000V2 ... well its obvious that some headphones are way way too expensive..... the folding headband of the Expanse is pretty cool design that implies its a easy headphone to carry... but the expanse isn't a easy to drive headphone... so even though you can have a small package for the headphones you need to carry a large powerful Dac/Amp... fit..form..function.. did I happen to mention... the Price is TOO HIGH
Yea, waiting for that $1999 Hifiman HE1000V2 price drop to happen outside the states, still haven't though. I still find the v1 for more money or the same amount a lot of times.
Hey thanks for the review. Could you please tell if the Violectic v281 was able to drive them properly? I have v280 and both v280 and 281 limit current delivery at specific impedance load.
Yes. But the Expanse is good enough to need more than a $600 AIO to truly bring it to life. However, the EF400 can drive it well enough while you save to scale up your source gear.
Every Audio files are crazy for sharp. Dressed can love it nice duck dynasty into song reference. The Connect is called Hirose, my belly jelly 😀 😄 😆🤭😃😁 the sensitivity is 85DB, and I believe 25 ohms
@@wavetheorysound that's awesome! I've seen people say that frequency response and THD is everything because the Fourier Transform tells us all we need to know and that the AKG K361 is as good as the flagships. What physical factors do you think distinguish a Susvara from Ananda for example? And are you interested in making a DIY pair of headphones?
I was considering these for my end game, but it sounds like they might not be right for me. I want very cinematic headphones. Headphones that sound amazing for sci-fi movies like Pacific Rim, and are really immersive for non-competitive gaming. Bass response is important so I think that knocks out HD800s. I have LCD-X which are decent but are just too heavy. Focal Clears were punchy but just slightly too cramped on the soundstage for me. I did end up picking up HE-R9 JMs after watching your review and I enjoyed them but they do lack a fair amount of detail and layering you get from higher end cans - amazingly comfortable though. Any suggestions?
Meze Elite, I currently own and don't think that I will sell those any time soon. Maybe if meze does some new similar headphone, but doubtful as for me, these are 9/10.
@@NoVoiOvithis is very interesting now that the Empy 2s are out. A lot of people say Mezes are very musical, but not what you would use for movies or gaming. I still haven’t picked a pair of headphones yet lol. Getting a lot of people saying HEKSE or Arya Organic now that they’re both super affordable.
I still have Elites, and here is my updated opinion: For music, cinema and non competitive gaming these do work, competitive gaming not so much...I cant work out directions that well with these, narrow soundstage helps, and these have a wide one. These are heavy and I do not use them for more than 1-2h at a time. I mean comfort is top notch as everyone says but still these have some weight. This might not be an issue for you tough, as I am VERY weight sensitive. For long sessions I would look for lighter headphones, I had adx5k, and it was amazing for me because of comfort, but would not work for you based on your comments, It sounds a bit thin in comparison. 109 pro could be your pick here, I know it is lot cheaper, but based on reviews a great headphone. Empyrean II is also grat no doupt, but I still would rather get a used Elite, based on reviews. I bought Elites new, and have not regret that choise. I usually buy my gear used. @@final3119
