The doubts make sense. Looking at the amethyst color, powdered amethyst is colorless to grey, because the violet color consists of Fe4+ ions with specific places in the crystal. While powdering the crystal, the Fe4+ ions change back to Fe3+ and the places are destroyed. And important to say: the violet of real Amethyst is not lightfast. For me its a story "Try to sell Fanta limonade as real 100% orange juice" and thats what makes people salty.
I'm getting more salty the more I think about it. Some of the greens I would have still liked no matter what, but the Garnet Gen. makes me mad as it was quite expensive in the UK but I thought it was worth it as a single pigment.
I had no idea, but now that you've explained the science behind the pigments, I will be avoiding the DS brand for any commission work. Thanks for sharing.
A company so willing to blatantly lie to you about mineral content, coupled with their outright lies about lightfastness, makes me feel like we as artists shouldn’t be buying from them at all. With the wide range of watercolor options available, companies like W&N that have been around and never purposefully mislead their clients deserve our support and money far more than one willing to LIE to take it. Granted many of their regular line paints are gorgeous, heavily pigmented, beautiful granulation, there are other companies that provide you the same quality for much less and they tend to be overlooked simply because they are honest when they add a pthalo, or brighteners, etc. if they are willing to lie about something as major as this, virtually steal your money by providing you something you could literally mix yourself, what else are they willing to do? What else are they willing to lie about? Cancelled.
@@curiouscolour8336 As an artist I absolutely feel ripped off! I sold earlier this year a monochromatic portrait of a child that had passed, made out of garnet her birth stone. I immediately contacted my client and explained what was happening and asked them to take caution when displaying because I am left completely in the dark now on lightfastness or pigment information at all! I won’t ever pay the premiums for Daniel smith paint again. I have a gorgeous set from the Akoostick series from Jasper Stardust. He does an incredible job researching pigments from an array of books. I will note that because he uses so much REAL pigment and so little binder (he is working on perfecting his formula, without subtracting pigment) it can come off on your hands. Adding just a drop of gum Arabic stops that, but he has some of the most saturated True Smalls, True Lapis, he is an incredible artist and puts his product and product integrity above cost and marketing. I don’t work for him or anything, but just figured I’d give you guys MY alternative to a company unwilling to be honest. Can we even trust the pigment content on ANY of the Daniel smith line anymore? I’ll use the extensive amount I have left and will work him straight out of my palette. On average we spend almost double for “primatek” and for what exactly?
@@holliesomething8731 I couldn't agree more! The misleading lightfastness ratings along with the issues surrounding the Primatek line have been enough to put me off Daniel Smith. This is a matter of integrity and Daniel Smith is now showing their customers that profit and company image are more important than they are. They're throwing away customer loyalty for profits so I'm going to use up the handful of tubes I have left and stick to Da Vinci Paint Co. I may even venture out and try M. Graham or Sennelier although their honey based formulas may be problematic here in the pacific northwest where the humidity is higher. I hope your client wasn't too distraught when you told them about the lightfastness issues surrounding their child's portrait. When a company is touted as the best of the best you should be able to trust their products. This just makes me wonder what else Daniel Smith is keeping their customers in the dark about. What are they going to pull on us next?
SO I will ad my two cents into this. I'm not surprised that this is coming out. My wife is an artist and was excited to get the PrimaTek colors. I am a mineralogist and knew that something was off, but she was happy and the colors are nice, plus you can get some good textures. Anyhow, one day I took a couple of her paints into the lab to perform some elemental and phase analyses on them. Low and behold, they were far from pure minerals in a gum arabic. It is important to note that 90% of minerals powder up white, even quartz (amethyst), when ground will look white. I emailed DS and asked about the data I collected and never heard back. I really like the idea of returning to the use of base minerals for pigments, but the way DS does it is just short of false advertising. Technically those minerals are there...just in very small quantities.
@@curiouscolour8336 It depended on the color, but their amythest was around 22%. Tourmaline was around 10% and "blue apatite" was about 15%. Most are in the range of 10-25% of the mineral listed.
The simple fact about almost ALL brightly-colored minerals is that they present as white when you grind them fine enough--almost ALL minerals. Amethyst, Malachite, Emerald, turquoise, moldavite, etc, can present as white when you grind them fine enough. I do not begrudge Daniel Smith for augmenting the colors of these mineral-based watercolors with synthetic or inorganic pigments to give them more vibrance and depth. But I think it IS an issue that they don't document the addition of these other pigment ingredients in their paints. I don't know if it's enough of an issue for ME to get my knickers in a knot like some of the "haters" online seem to be doing, but it does pose some interesting ethical questions for this brand--which has previously been above reproach in terms of quality, customer service, and openness with regards to their paint formulations. I love the way PrimaTek paints look and work, and will continue to buy and use them. But it would be nice if Daniel Smith would "come clean" in their documentation on what REALLY goes into these paints...
I believe anyone who has worked with minerals should realize they are easily lifted. That's why all the Primatek colors are a 1 or 2 on the staining scale. Those claiming the tubes have 90% phthalo blue or green, or other highly staining pigments aren't thinking straight. There is no way they would be so easily lifted if they were filled with highly staining pigments. Daniel Smith doesn't need to come clean because their Primatek paint tubes only contain the minerals and the binders, as they share. I am reminded that DS was the FIRST and only manufacturer to share the pigments in their paint and other manufacturers fought tooth and nail against supplying us with that information. DS has my vote of confidence because, like you, I enjoy painting with them and because I'm tired of unfounded controversies that don't hold "water" when scrutenized by a logical review of the claims. Also, for those who clutch their pearls over the price Primatek tubes, half of the Primatek line is the same price as most their other tubes of paint. 10 of them are $4 more and only 3 of them are $6 more. It's not enough a difference to keep me from purchasing them, but to each their own.
I am SO PISSED, I don't trust their company at all anymore!! Glad you're reporting on this! They need to print ON the tubes what the pigments are, not just print Amethyst Genuine only....that's SO deceptive. Now I feel ripped off because their prices are so high
Same here. I can't trust them about anything anymore. Even the eco version of some of their earth tones are now suspicious to me. Probably just baked arsenic...
I never assumed my Amethyst Genuine to be 100% Amethyst, if this is what we're all upset about. Simply due to the cost, I never assumed the paints contained a gigantic amount of specimen mineral.
@@jafetisraelmendezcastro5648 the issue is that Daniel Smith has claimed them to be pure which was untrue. It’s definitely good to be skeptical in this day and age with just about everything you buy, but it doesn’t excuse the completely deceptive sales tactics of this specific range of paint…:
Paint companies shouldn't price gouge customers while being shady about what they're putting(and not putting) in their products. Many people will buy these specialty colors regardless of the label because Daniel Smith does put out beautiful paints but they should provide some transparency at least about their pricey primatek line. Especially when every primatek product photo shows large and sparkly A-grade crystal and mineral specimens which leads people to assume that crystals like Amethyst or Green Apatite are the only pigment within their paint. It doesn't help that the company only lists a single mineral/crystal under pigment info on the side of each tube. If there are other pigments used then they should also be listed under pigment info. When confronted about this the company was indifferent and brushed it off as nothing. I'm sooooo glad I didn't invested in more daniel smith colors. Ive been buying my paints from Da Vinci Paint Co. from California which sells high quality professional watercolors without the shady dealings of daniel smith. And unlike Daniel Smith watercolors, my Da Vinci watercolor paints don't shrink after drying when pouring my own half and full pans. I always feel ripped off when the paint dries and half of its volume is gone...I don't feel like paying for that much water if I'm buying pricey paints. They might not have as many color options but quality and transparency are more important to me so Da Vinci has become my go-to company.
I understand your concern, but let me assure you worldpigmentday's evaluations are FILLED with flaws. Anyone who has painted with any of the phthalo pigments knows how staining they are, and yet worldpigmentday claims Amazonite Genuine is "over 90% phthalocyanine green". I pulled my tube of Amazonite, remembering all the PrimaTek paints were very low on the staining scale. It's a 1 on the staining scale. There is NO physical way Amazonite Genuine is over 90% phthalo green. It's just not possible. To test it, I painted a swatch and after it completely dried, I lifted a large swath out of the middle COMPLETELY! As I started to go through all worldpigmentday's evaluations of PrimaTek paints, I noticed she claimed each was a large percentage of a much higher staining pigment than could be possible! I own 9 PrimaTec tubes of paint, and I was only able to evaluate those 9 pigments to verify their lift-ability. But I was able to check all the other evaluations she claims to have made and verify it's not physically possible. I dub this controversy a NONtroversy.
I am so annoyed hearing about this. I am by no means wealthy and I paint for a hobby. I got some of the Primateks with intent to paint special gifts for family and friends and to use in religious paintings, where I wish to use the best quality I can afford. I feel scammed now. I really wanted to get some of their base range, but think not any more.
I have known for years that they can't all be 100% genuine minerals. The example of amethyst being clear when ground up has been known for a while. But I didnt know it was THIS bad. I figured they bought low grade gems and scraps/dust, hence the "low" price. Then enhanced the paint a little bit to better represent some of the gems qualities. This is really disappointing and I won't be buying from Daniel Smith again. I honestly think they should get in trouble for this and going forward they should be forced to redo all marketing and labeling.
I agree! Their response has ignited an anger in me that I can’t seem to snuff out. They are so arrogant and act as thought we the artists, don’t matter and we are but mere mortals and they don’t need us. NEWS FLASH DANIEL SMITH....your only IN business because of us. They have zero respect for us and they made that clear by responding like we haven’t mattered from day one, the almighty dollar has. In my mind, a piece of artwork that will be viewed for hundreds of years being done in your paint is worth far more than the extra money you can make off a tube of lies!
@@holliesomething8731 I'm wondering what any of us would do if someone claimed our work was "fake". I'm guessing that's how it felt to DS when they received the accusations worldpigmentday lobbed at them. I know the owner of DS isn't a warm and fuzzy guy, but what really chaps me is the fact, beyond any doubt, worldpigmentday is lying in her evaluation of the PrimaTek line. If you have ever painted with any of the phthalo pigments, you know they are very staining. Phthalocyanine green (phthalo green) is a 4 on the staining scale. NOW, worldpigmentday claims "over 90%" Amazonite Genuine "is phthalocyanine green"! Every single paint in the PrimaTek line is either a 1 or 2 on the stain scale. Amazonite Genuine is a 1. If it were over 90% phthalo green, there is no way it would be able to be lifted completely. SO, I tested it. I painted a swatch of Amazonite, let it dry, and lifted a large swath in the center... and it lifted completely! Phthalo green does not lift like that! Not even close. I tried it with the 8 other PrimaTek paints I have. Worldpigmentday claims they are all a large percentage higher staining pigments. Any watercolor artist could tell you this isn't physically possible. Hopefully that makes you feel better about DS and their line. I paint with several other brands, all are great, but DS was the FIRST company that ever printed the pigments they used on the side of their paint. None of the other companies ever did until DS started doing it.
I've been on the fence about succumbing to DS (everybody and their dog seems to recommend it), so with this controversy out now, I don't think I ever will! I'll stick with my RS and Schmincke paints.
@@Decopainterandtea Roman Szmal. It's a professional-line of watercolour that is half the price of other professional paint if you're in Europe (not sure how easy it is to get or cheap it is outside of Europe). RS is based in Poland. The paints are honey-based and some colours were a little sticky (but still good to paint with). They are fairly new so the owner is still adjusting line. They were all whole pans for awhile, but now you can get half pans in a palette from Jackson's. I like them for colours I'm not sure about and have a few favourites from them.
@@curiouscolour8336 Kimberly Crick (YT) is able to make dupes of several Primafakes now with a RS PBr 11, aquarius brown (?). So I looked on Jackson's and they don't have tubes, sadly. DS has 'lunar brown' in a tube, Series 1 cheap, so I'm a _little_ tempted. But I'm overall not wanting to put one more dime in DS pockets. Actually have considered trying to return the junk, used, but I do like some of their (mostly S1) tubes. Raw umber. That lunar brown which I don't have (except it's probably a main component in their Primafakes, which I've stopped using).
I'm not even mad for some reason....I'm from europe and I'd never pay the swiss prices for these paints (for any paints, really). I bought all of my DS paints in bulk off ebay where I paid a really good price, so to me, there is no loss at all. If I paid the 20-25 swiss francs for a 15ml tube though, I'd be really mad. But since I didn't I still got great paints for a great price. Do I appreciate being lied to? Def not, but honestly they're still my go-to brand. It is good to know though, and I'll consider it if I have ro refill any Primatek colors. It def. means I won't ever spend more than needed on them (sorry not sorry, swiss shops)
I love DS paints, so I am disappointed upon stumbling unto this information. I do not believe there is another brand out there as someone else mentioned in a post that provides with the same granulation effect for a much lesser price than DS. That is why Schmincke and other popular artist brands try to come up with their own, but at the same price point. I have tried other great companies but none come close to DS. So, I do believe DS needs to be put in it's place, they need to be totally truthful about their practices, especially in these tough times for all of us, them as well as us, and they need to come up with a plan to clean up their act or the backlash will not be pretty. I will not be buying Primatek any longer. But the rest of the line...I can't give them up! There you have it, but what can I say, the colors and granulation are beautiful, and no one else so far comes close. When they do I'll switch.
@@grayven123 you could even pick up a tube of Van Gogh PBk11 and get exactly the same effect for a fraction of the price. Or Rembrandt. But they're the same thing from the same company with a different name on one of them.
Roman Szmal has a PBr11 (Aquarius Brown) and 3 dif PBk11 (Aquarius Black & 2 others, but A.B. is most similar to Lunar Black) that granulate beautifully and can actually replicate primatek colours. Look into Kimberly Crick's RU-vid channel to find more information on those mixes. She also is currently running a lightfast test on all Daniel Smith colours, which is fascinating and very revealing about the depths of the brand's dishonesty.
Not to mention how they labeled Anthraquinone red (PR177) as lightfast when it's not (fades into grey), they sold toy-quality plastic boxes for their expensive sets and mislabeled all colours that contain PR177 as lightfast (Moonglow, for example).
@@curiouscolour8336 How awful! I feel your pain. I had just purchased Green Apatite "Genuine" from DS about a month before the controversy first gained momentum. I would have picked a different color if I had known at the time. Thankfully I already heard about Moonglow's lightfastness issues even though DS lists it with higher lightfastness than is obviously deserved. Another RU-vidr developed a lightfast Moonglow dupe by combining Viridian, French Ultramarine Blue and a Quinacridone Red. Was very close to the DS color.
You can mix your own Moonglow very easily though! You don't even need the specific pigments. Kimberly Crick has an excellent break down with examples on her blog and a video on here too.
My opinion is that it wouldnt be a problem to mix those genuine mineral pigments with other pigments when it has better and more stable results what the color outcome is (many minerals would be white or grey colors I think?) BUT it should be stated on the tubes! They write the pigments they used in convenience colors on the tubes, why not on these? That's disappointing.
They don't use pigment in the PrimaTek line. If you've painted with phthalocyanine green (or any phthalo pigment), you know how terribly staining they are. I don't believe PrimaTek paint has all these highly staining pigments in them, as has been suggested. Note, there will be several who "claim" they added lithopone to eliminate the staining quality, but don't let them get away with that. IF lithopone were added, the pigments wouldn't be transparent (and 20 of them are). The bottom line, just enjoy painting. Art is a release, and we have plenty of controversy we need to escape in our lives. I've never seen such petty (as Karen said) "trash talk". This is a non-troversy.
@@VanmeterFL Nana, you seem to be running interference for DS. We see you and your "benefactor". See the latest DS wc catalogue and the Primatek line....there are 21 very questionable Primatek colors that are "medium staining" (11), "highly staining" (7), and "EXTREMELY staining (3).
@@curiouscolour8336 Have you ever reviewed the color fastness tests that Jane Blundell did over 19 months in the brutal Australian sun (no, the glass was not UV-protected)! She did research on many brands and only shared that EVERYONE's PY40, Pr83, and Rhodonite Genuine were not lightfast.) BTW, I was reminded by a chemist friend that phthalo colors are made of dye and would show no granulation. The woman who started this conspiracy theory doesn't seem to understand the difference between dyes and mineral-based pigments at all! I'm surprised you didn't pick this up. Besides not realizing colors like Amazonite Genuine could NOT be made with 90% phthalo green (bs) because of the difference in staining properties, she shows us a granular filled photo of Amozinite Genuine and claims it's made from a DYE! It's utterly impossible.
Great information. Thank you. I mostly paint with W&N watercolors, but had thought about trying some of DS products. Now I am glad I haven't wasted my money on them. I use cheaper brands for my sketchbook ideas and doodling, but will just stick with W&N for major projects.
For me it's about the end result. Does it deliver the artwork you expected? It is pure, as there is pure "rock" AND mineral in the raw material, and the combined end result is AMAZING.
As a jewelry smith, it is true that when you powder most minerals, 70 percent of it color is lost. This is true for translucent minerals like amethyst. However, some minerals are not always transparent, like chrysoprase for example can be really good triple a grade translucent, but it also can be a solid color. In some minerals the color you see is actually light refraction, but most are colored by oxides. I believe oxides are typically in paints as well. A lot of amazing techniques using oxides and elements were discovered by the Egyptians and other ancient peoples. In fact alchemy, and modern day chemistry, started in Egypt by craftsmen using the oxides and native elements they found in their unique crafts. Jewelry, pottery, pigments and other lifestyles were the main motivation for alchemy and chemistry alike. In fact Egypt actually means "mansion of the spirit of ptah" the crafting god of the ogdoad.
We all know that many cultures have long used minerals/oxides to make paint. Thus the long list of earthtone options like Transparent Brown Oxide and Transparent Yellow Oxide. I'm not sure where people think most of our pigments come from. I appreciate you reminding us of this. I also know there is no way the "controversial claim" that the Primatek colors are filled with 90% phthalo pigments is possible. The entire Primatek line is a 1 or 2 in staining level and they act like minerals in a binder. Daniel Smith has shared an intensive video on how they locate and make their mineral Primatek line. But haters will always hate and those pushing conspiracy theories to attract likes and subscribers will lose in the end.
You might want to check that PrimaTek staining rating again. The entire DS Primatek line contains: 11 colors with level 3 staining (medium) 7 colors with level 4 staining (high) 3 colors with level 5 staining (very very staining) I like the colors, but I HATE BEING LIED TO!
Well I'm quite disappointed.. the inconsistency in labeling adds to the inconsistency of formulation and lightfastness.. the product is high priced and is supposed to be high quality.. They are lucky that plenty RU-vidrs are US based and promote well their products.
It doesn’t take long for them to learn the error of their ways. Windsor and Newton didn’t stay in business by lying, scamming, and falsely marketing their products. They have always sourced or invented their own pigments even when it wasn’t cost effective to do so. Not that I prefer them, but they stay in business because they have repeat customers. I hope people wake up to this and walk away from future purchases through Daniel Smith.
I really don't think most know much about the details of pigments (although many youtubers have done wonders to change that!), especially the more oddball ones which DS uses in their Primatek line. Brands like DS who have such a wide reach are especially going to have a larger customer base that just doesn't know. The customers are not at fault for this, they should be able to trust who they're buying from, and not everyone has been taught to even look at the pigment codes and whatnot. Personally my suspicions didn't start about the DS Primateks after I started making my own watercolours when I needed to know a lot more about pigments, their viability, expense, availability, and so on. Some things just didn't add up. Granted DS is not a brand I use much, I only own two of their colours (both Primateks go figure), but I definitely won't be buying from them again.
I am not a fan of Daniel Smith for two reasons. One day I stumbled upon some comments about DS embellishing their lightfastness ratings. So I decided to check for myself. Well, suffice to say that even if I could test only a few, I was very disappointed as their prices are insane in Europe. The second reason, and that's more personal one, is that their paints feel heavy to me, especially compared to Schmincke and Sennelier (unfortunately I don't have other American paints as it's difficult to get them here for a normal price). And mind you, I am not talking about the granulation, just the feeling of how they lay on the paper. Watercolor to me must be light. I have seen many people in the artist community say that DS are good paints but their marketing is better, especially with this scandal, I now tend to agree.
I am also in Europe. I heard Moonglow wasn't lightfast but I didn't know it spread across the line 😭. I was going through my DS quite fast and have been replacing a lot of colours with Roman Szmal (before RS was too sticky, but the recent pans seem to be a better forumla) and Senniler.
@@CATAZTR0PHE or rather you associate DS's heaviness with more pigments. Additionally, American brands are different from one another, and they are not more pigmented than a Schmincke or a Sennelier, or even Roman Szmal, to name just a few.
I am a rock hound and I also paint, when I saw these colors I instantly noticed the color of the amazonite looked too dark. I am glad I looked it up on RU-vid as I thought it couldn't be the true natural color. I have amazonite in my mineral collection and none are as dark as the DS paint.
I bought the introductory 6 set not too long ago and was really disappointed with them and now with this I don't think I will be buying any more DS, I'll stick with my trusty Schminke.
This has been so disappointing to me. There are some cynics who say that people know they're being lied to and don't mind but as a newer artist (less than a year with watercolor) I was aware of their (DS) reputation and based my choice to purchase their paint almost exclusively on that. I did not know enough to understand that their claims were suspect. No, I don't believe everything I'm told but the brand is known as a being smaller, ethical and responsible, and artist quality. Their reputation proceeds them, it could be said, although I only believe one of those statements to be true at this point. At this point I own almost the entire line and no, I won't stop using them, but like you I don't believe I'll be purchasing more. Thanks for posting about this. I saw a video by The Frugal Crafter and because I don't use instagram or fb, this was the only place I searched for more info. At this point, few are covering the topic. I'll continue to check back for further updates.
I also have only been painting for a year and am still learning. My suspicion was just wondering why they could make these bright, low-staining colours from stone and no one else could (e.g., the Roman Szmal Lazurite is dull, lifts off and can't be used under other colours) but I never question it past that. Their Lapis sucked and I thought that it was proof that the line was real (assuming they couldn't afford the good stones from Afghanistan). But maybe they never tweaked the Lapis because everyone knew what it looked like and if they suddenly made it bright and saturated, then the whole Primatek line would have come into question earlier. It's also the only colour in their line that has the percent of stone mentioned. 🧐
@@curiouscolour8336 interesting because on their YT channel , they have a video on how they make their Primatek and Lapis was the gem they chose to feature 😑
Thanks for sharing this. Was about to splurge, but will save myself some $$$. The company should disclose the pigments, so artists know what they are paying for exactly. Seems dishonest if the controversy turns out to be true and makes me doubt their entire range.
DS does disclose the pigments. As a matter of fact, they were the first company to provide pigment numbers on all their paints. None of the other companies ever did until DS started! Eva, if you've ever painted with any phthalo pigments, you know how staining it is. Most of them are 4 on the staining scale, and phthalocyanine green is certainly a 4! Worldpigmentday claims "over 90%" of Amazonite is phthalo green. Even a beginner artist knows this is not physically possible considering Amazonite Genuine is a 1 on the staining scale! I even tested the Amazonite Genuine to assure it was indeed totally able to be lifted. It is! Completely back to white paper. Then I started looking into the evaluation of the other 8 PrimaTek paints I have. Every single pigment worldpigmentday has claimed is mixed with the PrimaTek color is far more staining than the PrimaTek color. I hope that makes you feel better about DS and the PrimaTek line. When a so-called expert makes a claim that is so easily disproven, you can't believe a word they say.
Thanks for sharing this information. I am new to watercolours and have spent the last year learning techniques with the W&N cotman set I bought. I’m currently looking at moving on to artist grade paints and while I’ve upgraded a few of my most used W&N colours I’ve been researching other brands to try. DS has been one of the most highly recommended but they’re not getting a penny from me now.
Look at White Nights for your basics and Roman Szmal for more "special" paints, rare pigments, granulating mixtures and convenience colours. Both are very affordable, White Nights especially so. Both clearly label contents and lightfast information. Both are professional grade. Both are available on Jacksons Art who ship worldwide, and you can get 10% off your first order if you use an affiliate link, lots and lots of painters on here have them so just pick your favourite and they'll get 5% back in credit for anything you spend at no cost to you.
@@mydogeatspuke thanks for the recommendations, I’ve actually been looking at White Nights for super affordable artist grade. I don’t think I’ve seen Roman Szmal paints but I will definitely check them out
@@sarahsreviews5753 White Nights are excellent, really good quality and nice full pans packed with pigment. They do tubes too if that's your thing. There are still a few single pigment paints that are fugitive in their line up but it's less than 5 iIRC and there are plenty of alternatives. I would get a tin rather than the plastic box though, then you can put Roman Szmal (or any other brand) pans in it as well. The plastic box only really fits the White Nights pans properly, and it's huge and cumbersome.
If you would like some of the best advise out there regarding triads, pigments, products, and the various watercolor paint brands, connect with Jane Blundell. She's an amazing published artist from Australia. She paints out swatches of most every paint, gives great advice, and is such a lovely person. She also has a blog that's helpful and has done a 19 month lightfast evaluation of pigments in the harsh Australian sun! Happy painting!
It’s been a while Daniel Smith has been claiming their watercolor to be vegan at least from 2017. That would mean there’s no ox-gall, animal glycerine neither honey. This is for elders that have been painting with DS watercolors for a long time. Have you perceived any difference regarding this watercolor performance from the old tubes to the new tubes?
I have used all major brands. I personally feel that Daniel smith, although are very good paints, there are better brands out there and cheaper. I love Schmincke and da Vinci and QOR. These don’t shrink in your pans. Sennelier is also very nice. Daniel smith has been very deceptive and have now been busted.
Hi, are their other watercolor lines still safe to use? Cause I just bought a DS Set. Though it's not the primatek line, I'm a bit worried if it still safe to use.
There is nothing ‘unsafe’ about any of the Daniel Smith paints. If you just bought a watercolor set, you should be happy that you have acquired good quality paints. Many comments on here is just trash talking. DS never said the primateks contained 100% of the mineral.
Vanya, there are millions of happy customers who cherish their DS paint all over the world. I also love M Graham, Winsor & Newton, and Schmincke. The honey based paint doesn't do well in my humid environment, so I stick with DS. So many options, always good quality. DS has manufactured watercolor paint since the 70's. They have a very long and outstanding reputation this non-troversy won't tarnish. I agree with Karen that this is "just trash talking"!
They did, but certain people won't accept their response. I did ask worldpigmentday a couple of questions about how such a highly staining pigment (phthalocyanine green, which is a 4) could possibly make up "over 90% of Amazonite Genuine when AG is a 1 on the staining scale. She was far less professional than DS was in their letter to her. Most scientists welcome the opportunity to answer questions, which are a simple part of evaluation. Happy painting, Pat!
Another thought that bugs me: why aren't the other paint companies RIPPING D.S. for this? I was annoyed (heh) when Schminke did the granulating colors, but really Schminke never said they were mined in glaciers and tundras or anything of the sort. I just never got any, and then there were recipes for making similar enough dupes. I hardly think Schminke even marketed them too hard (like, at all). I guess most paint companies have class and hope D.S. will implode on themselves.
I have several primatek colors and since I mostly do nature journaling I’m very pleased in the variance of granulation and shades of color that looks very natural to me. So Thanks Daniel Smith for lovely paint that stays fresh in the tube - I’ve done a whole pg of all the greens, for instance, and in my 80 years of life see nothing to complain about. Is everyone just bored or something to have to keep up this complaining?
People are mad because of false advertising not because the paints aren't nice. People who bought Sleeping Beauty Turquoise were buying a product that was mainly cobalt blue, but charged a much higher price. If they had known that pigment was 80 percent cobalt, then maybe they would have just bought cobalt. They should have that information when purchasing. Also, some of the unlisted pigments are fairly toxic and I've read a few blogs where that writer only bought the Primatek colours because they falsely believed it was non-toxic.
@@curiouscolour8336 Yes, Curious Color, but not all of us are mad, and not all of us believe the evaluation worldpigmentday made. BTW, there isn't a single paint in the PrimaTek line that acts like any of the other pigments in my collection. I guarantee you, Amazonite Genuine doesn't stain like phthalocyanine green, NOR is it as chalky as paints that are filled with lithopone to eliminate the staining quality. What's really curious to me is how you just can't be happy if everyone isn't agreeing with your point of view. Don't we have enough controversy in our lives without dealing with this NONtroversy?
And what gets me is that the handprint guy, whoever, _knew_ and I'm guessing other artists (like the ones who push this junk and get paid by DS ) knew and had nothing to say. On my palette swatches, I usually put the pigments but for DS Primafakes I have a P with the stupid circle, like a halo, but now P with a circle just means "lie". If Amethyst Genuine Fake or Purpurite is diox purple, they should put that, or really ALL pigment info, so we'll know what the properties are (lightfastness, staining, etc). I watched many Dr. Oto streams about this junk and noticed some blossomed _(I'd thought DS just got lucky)_ or reacted to salt; I think the Lapis Lazuli must be some painting medium to REMOVE pigment from colors. (Note: I hope Oto keeps her videos up because they make more sense now. I'm trying to guess the Primafakes' real pigments (jadeite is staining and I'd guess most definitely some PG7 boosts that one on up) -I can't remember how much I paid for jadeite/PG7, but PG7 or one of the mixes is surely cheaper than the Primafake. (The Fakes are in my dump palette, far away from me. Even that piemontite that I tried to incorporate into paintings that I won't try to sell or gift away because I have no idea what it'll look like in a few years.)
@@curiouscolour8336 Isn't that strange, as one of my tubes claimed 80% "mineral" if I recall. It's one of the invisible "paints" that suck up real pigments in a mix. I wonder if that "mineral" is made of that stuff Magic Erasers are made of 😂 Edit: DS should call it "Magic Eraser Genuine" 😂
@@MelanCholy2001 If it's their Lapis, I think that's their only real Primatek colour because they came up with so long ago (and it's the only one with the percent listed that I know about).
Omg, the dramaaa... I will still use my DS and primatek because it look good, and love the fealing of the paint. I really never eat the story of the pure minerals, maybe because im from latinoamerica and here we are suspicious of companies lol... Saying that, i hope Daniel Smith learn from this and change this kind of practices
I'm glad you are still using the PrimaTek paint you have. I think it's sad worldpigmentday has misrepresented her evaluation or her knowledge or both. Anyone who has ever painted with a phthalo pigment knows it's not possible to add it to Amazonite Genuine at the "over 90%" she claims, and it still be a 1 on the staining scale. It's just not physically possible. Phthalo green is 4, and Amazonite is a 1. Once I figured that huge flaw in her comments, I started checking the other 8 tubes I use. All the pigments she claims are added are MUCH higher in staining than the 1 & 2 staining of PrimaTek paints.
Because you could have bought that colour you like for much less if you knew it was the same as their cheaper version. I really liked Garnet Genuine, but had I known it was 90 percent the same pigment as another of their brown-reds I would have bought that.
I agree with you, Bruce. I love it and will continue to use it. Because the PrimaTek line reacts so differently than the other pigments I own, I will willingly purchase their beautiful line with pride. The Hermatite, Serpentine Genuine, Green Apatite Genuine, Jadite, and Amazonite Genuine are my favorites. Whatever technique DS used to produce such an amazing paint line, I'm happy to use them. I've had NO issue with lightfastness with these or other pigments, like Moonglow, either. Watercolor painting (and all painting) should be a wonderfully relaxing outlet for artists. Considering I've never seen a single artist charge premium prices for art made with PrimaTek paint (claiming they are made from "rare" stones, or something equally ridiculous), I can't imagine this is such a problem for people. Why is a small gang of people making such a big deal about this handful of paint? Just because worldpigmentday claims to be an expert, doesn't mean she hasn't made errors in her evaluation. Regardless, I'll continue to use them, and so will millions of others who just want to paint with JOY! Enjoy every moment of your journey, Bruce. I know I will.
My god my lapis lazuli is so off its the worst paint i own and the most expensive, i bought it for embellishment for my medieval calligraphy, gutted...
i love some prima tek colors, not all. Following controversy sucks, it never gets good, its never balanced or happy. none of the negative comments here help anyone paint better or understand and love color. if you don't like them, don't buy them and get on with painting. do some videos on them and stop the drama, we all might learn something.
Amen, D. McDaniel. Watercolor painting should be a happy outlet to bring us peace and joy. Don't we have enough controversy in our lives without promoting this NONtroversy? I think so! I also agree, the comments here haven't been balanced (and I've even had a couple of my comment questioning worldpigmentday's evaluation deleted by a couple youtubers who ONLY want to act like bullies)! If they don't like them, don't buy them! Good advice. Happy, and I mean HAPPY painting.
I’ll continue to use Daniel smith since they’re mostly vegan friendly and though schmincke paints and Winsor and Newton are also beautiful I just don’t want the oxgall all over my paper from slaughtered cows that makes up a huge chunk of their paint. Nobody needs that in this day and age. Though I am not happy about this debacle and will avoid buying anything from Daniel smith for a while so their pockets are hit by their shameless fakery.
@@curiouscolour8336 moulin du Roy is my favourite paper and also happens to be vegan. It was my favourite without bias to how it was sized so a very good paper. The not pressed takes paint beautifully and I’ve made most of my best paintings on it. There’s also a good acid free wood paper by Fluid I use but not fluid 100 line. - oh and rives BFK printing paper is vegan and very good for gouache. It has less size so the gouache goes on very smooth as it soaks a little in.
You don't have to believe me but the person who runs WorldPigmentDay's is a scientist who studies pigment and is a pigment expert. Her evidence is pretty damning.
@@curiouscolour8336 Not everything an expert says is accurate, Curious. There is a doctor telling parents how to hide ivermectin in peanut butter on a cracker too, but most people don't want to add to the already high rates of children being poisoned with it! I would think there's plenty of controversy out there without adding to it.
