Thank you for watching! If you have any questions regarding Dark Souls' story, please feel free to share them in the comment section. I will be reading and answering them.
I'm editing this to let you know that some minor details of this video are incorrect and will be addressed in future episodes. Such as Gwyn having cast his Lord Soul into the sky (it was not; Gwyn merely shackled the fire with the undead curse), the giants being "demons" (they are golem-like slave workers made by Izalith, but they are from a time before the chaos flame, and thus would not be considered demons. This is a dumb oversight on my part.) and Artorias being from the Catacombs (this is only half true, as he was from Astora, and the Catacombs are connected to it.) Thank you for watching! Pinned here are some brief explanations and clarifications regarding the content of this video. Some of it will be covered in depth later. - Gwyn was a pioneer in the exploration of the surface world. He constructed his empire on top of the tallest remaining archtree, and surrounded it with immense walls to stop trespassers. That stretch of civilization was to be known as the "world of men". The nobles who lived there enjoyed their humanity and were, initially, free from Gwyn's curse, and from its consequences, as they lived geographically far from the undead they were creating and from the abyss, from the world's bottom. Of course it all backfired later. - Izalith chose to remain residing in the underground. It countered Gwyn's curse with the creation of their own, chaotic, "sun". It's quite clear that the conflict between Izalith and Gwyn's empire was inspired by our world's cold war. - I will make an entire video about this later. But the Great Swamp is Izalith from the past. Many places that are referenced by name in the Dark Souls games - most of them, even - are present within them, either directly or indirectly. Thorolund and Carim are within Anor Londo's (Gwyn's empire, the World of Men) walls. The same is true for so-called "gods" and other named characters. - Regarding Nito, I'll paste an explanation of mine in here to clarify things a bit. The second episode of my past series talked about that too, and I will make a video that covers the entire history of the Way of White, including its coopting by Gwyndolin, and the desperate restoration of it done by Pontiff Sullyvahn. Here goes the explanation. "As an embodiment of death, Nito is quite obviously not what one would infer to be the benevolent god of a religion of "holy purity and salvation" such as the Way of White. But that is the case; his paladins, such as Leeroy, are actually the agents of death. He is associated with Gwyn in a few ways. He isn't in any way opposite to Gwyn's rule, but an asset to it. Which is why they collaborate; Gwyn wants the curse to spread, so that his sun may become stronger, and Nito wants his death to spread. Gwyn's curse is spread mainly through death. You see? Once you start seeing not the trees, but the forest, you start to realise these things. Gwyn fabricated the Way of White as a way to disguise his and Nito's actions to spread the curse, and to misguide the undead on purpose. Which is why he would have to conceal Nito's identity as some other "god" (gods aren't real!) to be worshipped. And coming back to the method of analysis I mentioned, there is purpose behind Reah's questline in DS1 - it links the Way of White to Nito. It is about the disilusionment of that religion; the holy saint is betrayed by one of Nito's - one of the Way of White's - own undead hunters, Paladin Leeroy - one who is a figure of holyness on the surface, but is actually employed to spread death by Nito." - I didn't mention it here, but I adjusted it with editing when I spoke about it - the sky's color in the opening cinematic of the first game is a clue as to the real chronology of events. First, the world's surface was blueish and dark. When Nito unleashes his miasma, it was slightly grayer than it was during the age of ancients. During Izalith's attack, (the hellfire may have accelerated the cycle and turned it into) the sky was purple, and after that, it looks like the world went into a sort of 'dawn'. Many dragons were killed by that fire, and their corpses decomposed on the world's surface - you can see the dragon's remains when Gwyn's invasion takes place. I'd even say it appears Izalith did most of the work. When Gwyn appears in the cinematic, he, along with his army, is prepared to invade the surface from inside an archtree. It is only after Gwyn's empire is built that the state of the world slowly advances to something like "noon". With his curse, he attempts to shackle the cycle, making it be permanently "noon". The "cycle" of the world of Dark Souls is, essentially, the cycle of day and night. - Gwyndolin's rule was under the light of the moon. Within that piece of the world (and of time), the flame is confined to the underground, and acts somewhat akin to the darkness at "daytime". That's why it is an unkillable flame, and a hungry one. And that is why it was "profaned". I'll elaborate on this later too. - The giant blacksmith "deity" likely had horns, and his form was more akin to that of the Titanite demons. Vamos might be related to his lineage of royal Izalith blacksmiths. - Whenever Gwyndolin would've needed to speak as Velka, he would use the Reversal Ring.
i absolutely love this telling of the series but out of curiosity: is there any in game evidence that Gwyndolin and Seath enacted a coup against Gwyn? I'm unaware of any and id love to know :)
@@evilajax5657 Thanks for commenting! Firstly I'd recommend you watch my other videos if you haven't already, as they present more in-game evidence such as text, visuals, context clues, narrative build-up and pay-off and etc. As for your specific question, there are many things that hint at Gwyndolin's connection to Seath and this larger conspiracy, but it's quite difficult to simply lay it all out since most of it is context-heavy. I have answered a similar comment before, I'll paste that explanation here, and if you're still confused by something feel free to tell me and I'll respond again!
@@evilajax5657 Gwyndolin's origin is quite mysterious indeed, but it is hinted that he is the result of Seath's obsession with producing a dragon-human hermaphroditic homunculus. Priscilla, much like Yorshka, were failed attempts at producing a hermaphrodite; they turned out too feminine. Him being a hermaphrodite isn't only implied by the alchemical parallel; he was intentionally designed as to look female, despite being a man; he impersonates Velka and Gwynevere with a female voice through the Reversal Ring; he was raised as a girl; and his worthy heir, produced by the obsessive royals of Lothric, is very effeminate too. In DS3, in order to succeed in usurping the fire, we must absorb the essence of the other gender, thus confirming the necessity of alchemical "hermaphroditism" for that duty. As a bonus, he shares his OST with the *Moonlight* Butterfly, one of Seath's creations. Additionally, if you analyze narrative build-ups and pay-offs it becomes easier to see: Seath was granted a chunk of Gwyn's soul. -> Seath was obsessed with producing a crossbreed. -> Priscilla, a female crossbreed, was sealed within the painting. She too knows of illusory magic. Gwyndolin is her brother. -> Yorshka too is Gwyndolin's brother. She too turned out too feminine, and likely knows of illusory magic as well. -> Gwyndolin, a mysterious so-called "bastard son" (DS3 Evangelist dialogue) of Gwyn, who appears female despite supposedly being a man and was raised as a girl, takes power as Chief of the Gods; he succeeded Gwyn, who supposedly "self-sacrificed" to link the fire, and was then called "Lord of Cinder" (kind of an inversion of his deific title as Lord of Light.) -> Gwyndolin hides behind an illusion of Gwyn, within his secret tomb, and commands Velka's Darkmoon knights. -> Right after Gwyn supposedly sacrificed himself to "prolong the age of fire", night befalls Anor Londo. -> The royals of Lothric, a kingdom with a strong relation to Anor Londo, is obsessed with producing a 'worthy heir'. -> Lothric, an effeminate man was born as a result of their obsession. -> We as the usurper of fire must become an alchemical hermaphrodite to usurp the fire and rule as the lord of a new age. The curse of undead was Gwyn's conspiracy against men outside his domain; a mechanism to prolong the age of fire. That's why he was punished, and that's the role of Velka, one of Dark Souls most important characters, the goddess of Sin and Punishment, who was considered a "rogue goddess" (why? Because she stood against Gwyn, the previous "Chief of the Gods". But her plan was successful, and she became the main source of worship of the Way of White during Gwyndolin's rule.)
The “making it permanently noon” thing makes me consider “Time is convoluted in lordran” in concert with the untended graves being in absolute darkness. Maybe time isn’t convoluted, it’s just *stopped,* but at “noon”. The way time is “stopped” in the darkness, but at “dark”. If that makes sense. Like maybe “convoluted” is propaganda.
@@andyghkfilm2287 "convoluted" is actually a mistranslation! Solaire's dialogue in the Japanese version is something to the effect of "time is stagnant", which ties in neatly with Gwyn trying to prolong his age by essentially trying to stop time
This is by far the most original and compelling read on Souls lore I've heard in a long time, you really made the world of Lordran feel fresh to me again. After so many years of hearing the same theories over and over again, a new set of eyes to see the world of Souls through is a pleasure.
Thank you so much!! This is why I make these videos. If you're interested in what I have to say - and I do have a lot to say - please be sure to check the next episodes!
I've watched A LOT of Dark Souls videos but with this one I could actually visualize what was going on. You establishing the Lords as just being humans and using propaganda to deify themselves is something that I see even older lore channels not realize.
I'm loving it❤ It seems like you have a very good grasp on what vision miyazaki was working with, when he constructed the world and its history. Usually people theorize about *one* connection between figures or events, but you seem to be able to reconstruct the whole picture. Also like, In your old video, you analyse the colour of the sky in order to determine the time in which the scenes in the intro take place. So simple and yet i have never seen anyone else do it
Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying it! And yes, as a writer I preffer to look at the whole picture at first, to only then be able to grap the minor things and the details. If you don't have a solid basis of understanding, and fall for the intentional, in universe misdirections, you'll have too many errors in your vision. However, if you have that solid base established, everything connects seamlessly. It's great!
Interesting take that meshes the lore of 1 and 3 in a way I've not considered before. I've learned a lot about the lore of Dark Souls but it's not often examined retroactively with DS3 in mind, more that DS3 is examined with the assumption that our conclusions about DS1 are correct. Eager to see the rest of this series.
When it always came to dark souls lore analysis, I always leaned more to Hawkshaw more than Vatti. And this analysis is bringing back those feelings of those old hawkshaw vids again. Watching this I felt like every hole, or gap that they had was filled by what was put forth in this video. Mainly Velka BEING Gwyndolin. And seeing someone finally bring up Gwyndolin and Seath’s very clear and obvious relations was so cathartic. Man I cant wait to binge this channel lol.
Thank you so much!! I'm glad you've enjoyed this video! And there's much more to come. I'll rework this script, fix a couple mistakes and post an immense video covering the topics discussed here in more depth. :D
This video puts so many things into context for all 3 games that countless hours of other videos on the subject have failed to do and I'm only 6 minutes in
This is all very interesting as an alternative view to the lore, not gonna lie. But the problem I see is that none of these is based on the game, there isnt a single evidence for the mayority of statements you present, and also it doesnt help that you dont explain how did figure it out. No in game refferences, no item description, no dialogue, nothing. You just say a bunch things and ask us to believe your view on face value. And what happens is that most of them are either A- impossible to know, B- contradicts what the game says. I'll give some examples: - You say Lord Gwyn's soul is the actual Sun, that he casted into the sky. Im not saying this isnt true, as there is nothing in the game that deny this. But also, there isnt a single evidence of this been the case, this is only one explanation that you think is true and then put it in this videos as fact. But it isnt a fact, because there isnt a single evidence of it. You could say many things that are facts, for example the number of children Gwyn had, and their names, because we have evidence of it. This isnt a fact. -You say Ciaran is from Oolacile, Artorias from the catacombs and Gogh from Izalith. Not a single mention to the origins of these knights, either in item descriptions or their appearance. Infact there isnt a single giant in Izalith, Ciaran is a regular human, so she could literaly be from anywhere and nobody can come from the catacombs, as the place of origin, as its a place to leave corpses to rest. Also Fharam is mentioned for the first time in DS2, we dont even know if Fharam was even worshiped by the time of DS1, there is literaly no way to know it, and if there is any gods that Ornstein is linked to are Gwyn and the First Born. This assumption is based purely on your imagination. - You say Nito's deific name is Allfather Lloyd. Despite not being mentioned a single time, anywhere. Infact we dont even know who was Father Lloyd. If the prophecy (opening cinematic) is propaganda from the stablished religion, which is the way of white, why would they use the name Nito in it, if its real title is Father Lloyd? Why does Nito then has its own group of knights coming from the catacombs, in which you need to be in his presence to get the covenant? The only paladin we know in the game is Leroy, which comes from the way of white, not from Nito, and he invades you as a red phantom, which means he is closer to be a dark raith than a paladin of Nito. You see what I mean? If you dont mention where did you get your conclusion from, the only option you give us is to believe you blindly because "you know the real lore". And if that is the case, why does your version contradicts the reality of the game? Cheers
Hey! Just to clear things a bit - I am a veteran player who started in 2012. Ever since then I have been fascinated with the world of Dark Souls. And since 2020, I've spent hundreds of hours researching these games because as a writer myself, I wanted to distinguish what makes Dark Souls so special. And it was back then that I started taking notes. I have read through every item description from these games at least 3x each, and etc. I never intended to make videos to "share my findings", I did it because I felt it was called for after learning so much about the esoteric story of these games. I didn't research with the purpose of making videos at all. Back in the older videos I made, I used to show plenty of reference from the games, such as dialogues, item descriptions and etc. This time around I did not, for time reasons. It takes 2-3x more time to edit. However, don't worry, this is definitely all based in the games! I'll be giving you a few examples of how I discovered what I talk about. Nothing that is written and shown to us in this series is arbitrary; everything has a purpose within the greater narrative. And the games do not tell the truth to our faces, quite the contrary. The information we get from text and dialogue is mostly from the point of view of that world's inhabitants and their knowledge. That means that we have to look beyond the surface - character designs, iconography, world design and geography, all of that matters. And you must take nothing for granted, and discard such beliefs as "it's just a videogame, this doesn't make sense!"
As for Gwyn, the explanation would be too large, and if you understand the core of the world of Dark Souls you'll understand his actions - as I explained in the video's description (I'll elaborate on all of this on the next video), the cycle of the world of Dark Souls is the cycle of "night and day". When Gwyn conquered the surface, he shackled the cycle with his curse to prevent the day from fading. That is what all of the information regarding his actions mean without the propaganda and obscure language (with therms such as "prolong the age of fire".) I figured what his curse and darksign mean by studying it very closely - its in game effects, the visual design and what it could represent.. I do a deeper dive on this on the second video of my older series, if you're interested.
As for the knights of Gwyn, I will be following that up directly with the next video. But I'll give you a brief explanation. Ciaran is most definifely from Oolacile, and that can be inferred from her visual design especially. And Artorias is "from the catacombs", in a way, yes; I'll spill the secret - he's from Astora, and Astora is the one of most important territory outside of the high wall. Astora is a kingdom located outside of the high wall, as it is an older culture, it is from Astora that the royal lineages come from originally. Oolacile is part of it, the royal garden and darkroot are part of it, the catacombs are part of it. I will be explaining why with more evidence in that video, but it's quite clear that that is the case. Artorias is either a skeleton, like I mentioned, or a hollow, thin man. Please wait for my next video for an in depth explanation!
Context is very important for research on Dark Souls' story. After all, Miyazaki is a writer, and wrote the characters of his world to communicate concepts about it. For example, the associations of location he makes with every character have meaning. Reah's questline linking her to Nito is not an accident, please read the pinned comment! Characters in the world of Dark Souls are never written in arbitrarily. The same is true for locations. "Lloyd" is not a random "god" we never meet - he is Nito's concealed, propagandised identity as an asset, a "deity" of the Way of White. How did I discover this? By taking a deep look at every single thing connected to Nito, such as his location, his role within the story - his connection to the Way of White and Gwyn, the items that we find near him, the characters associated with him.
I hope this answers your questions in a way that is satisfying for now! And please wait for my next video, where I'll elaborate on this one and polish things a bit (the script for this first video was a bit clunky, as I was rusty from not writing about Dark Souls in a long time.) Thank you!! :D
Wow, so good to see the dark souls lore videos back! Your theories are a breath of fresh air from others, as you seen to understand the nuances of miyazaky's world very well, which makes for very compelling explanations. Eager to see more!
A lot of times, I watch videos on another account and make comments from this account. I've very impressed by your handling of Gwendolyn. I don't remember many commenting on this duel gender and connection to the rebis. But, that he was born of the part of the Lord Soul which Seath held is amazing insight! The sun as collecting souls and the counter conspiracy to drain the sun of the souls. I've heard theories that the original Velka was a daughter of Nito and that she would have married into the Gwen's family as a political marriage.
Thanks! Now, as for Velka, I do believe she was married to Gwyn for political reasons, yes! But I'm not sure there's much connecting her to Nito specifically.
@thefirelinkconspiracy3810 I've watched so many lore videos and you seem to have a talent for analytical thinking and systemizing. There are a million lore videos on "this one aspect explains the whole story." I mean, you have the central concept of "deception/conspiracy" but you are able to order and connect so many themes and story points into a very coherent narrative. And Gwendolyn is such a great central character for your deception thesis. The Way of White spreading the undead curse through the hunt is so Bloodborne! Sorry to rant. Thank you for the gift of knowledge and helping me understand my favorite game
@@Billyboy597 No need to be sorry, I appreciate your kind words a lot! Thank you!! I deeply care about these games too. I'm glad you've been enjoying my videos!
This take on the souls lore is definitely gonna have to be my favourite especially since I already think a lot of what we initially thought as truth is cleverly clouded propaganda especially true when looking through ds3, it's environments and item descriptions. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this. Kudos!
This is why the Dark Souls universe will never get old. One of the most interesting fictional fantasy worlds ever imo. Would be amazing if one day we got an actually book series or TV show all about the coming and fading of the age of fire. Dark Souls: The Age of Fire. :D Amazing lore video. Keep it up.
Your theory is fascinating so first and foremost thanks for sharing it. Having said that, I have some questions: 1) In DS-1 you can kill Gwyndolin. How do you explain that? 2) What exactly is the Firelink conspiracy? You said, and I am quoting: "they would ecplise the sun through an occult ritual that involved the sacrifice of powerful souls [...] utilizing the darksign to take energy from the sun to an enormous bonfire that would rest under a dense layer of rectrated time" What is this bonfire? Do we have any evidence of its existence? What should this great bonfire accomplish? What is a "layer of retractred time"?
Thanks for commenting! While we can kill Gwyndolin, it's possible that one, it's not his real self, but a projection made with a chunk of his soul - he is the "god of illusion" after all. This would explain how he was present all the way in DS3 and was eaten by Aldrich. The Firelink Conspiracy is the name I attributed to the plot of Velka, Gwyndolin and the serpents. They've developed a method of combating the undead curse, which was prolonging the Age of Fire with the souls of undead; the actual mechanism for that is the undead prophecy, as in, an undead must harvest sovereign souls and sacrifice them to fuel a fire below the ground. This is the explanation for the Profaned Flame, and for the draconic transformations of the creatures in DS3. What this would accomplish is the advancing of the cycle, as in, the coming of the night and so on. I will cover this in depth on my next video. I hope you'll be interested to check it out!
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I fail to understand how to combat the undead curse ("burn yourself into the bonfire to prolong the age of light") one should burn souls into another bonfire, a fire below the ground. Isn't that the same thing? How is the profoned flame any different?
@@Zoblin161 To clear your confusion, you can think of it like this: The cycle of the world of Dark Souls is the cycle of day and night. Gwyn wanted to prolong the Age of Fire, as it was a time of plenty for his empire, and if the cycle had progressed, the men would likely be forced to migrate below, where they resided before they had conquered the surface. It's hinted that the dragons would naturally make a return through the cycle's progression too. In order to prolong the Age of Fire (the daytime), Gwyn shackled the sun above the ground through the undead curse - the souls of men would be *linked* to the sun and their fire would be extracted through it as to fuel the sun. This also had the effect of shackling the dark to the world's depths, as it could not move naturally upwards, which created "the abyss", making it go wild. Through fire-linking, the undead is using his link to the sun to do the reverse; to *drain* fire from it, and fuel a flame below the ground as a means of advancing the cycle. It's an ingenious way of combating Gwyn's plot. DS3 directly tells us and shows us that when you link the fire, a flame *born of the sky falls down*. Fire-linking is what created the "unkillable flame" below Irithyll, the Profaned Flame. This is what they were working towards. However, the conspirators had also planned for an usurpation of fire to take place, as in, a worthy heir to the flame would take what's rest of it (the eclipsed, drained sun) for himself to lead manking into the new age, likely to lead them below the ground. Lothric was produced with this in mind, but he abdicated from his duty, and we the player must succeed him. Again, I'll cover this is more detail soon! :D
@@Zoblin161 Oh, and the part about it prolonging the age of fire, and about Gwyn doing it for that reason, is propaganda. The reverse is true. Both Fraampt and Kaathe are lying. Characters are fooled by it in-universe (in fact, this is the plot of the Lords of Cinder; they were fooled or harmed by the conspiracy and some of them realized it and became disillusioned with their duties), and this is why Gwyndolin cast the illusion of the sun in Anor Londo. It's understandable why they'd fabricate this lie, as Gwyn was definitely extremely popular and Gwyndolin and Velka would never announce openly that they sentenced Gwyn to burn himself and coup'd his regime. Gwyndolin would have to be seen as his legitimate successor, but it appears that with Pontiff Sulyvahn's WoW reform, they're finally doubting his legitimacy; the Evangelists call him a Bastard, and Fire-linking to be "the bastard's curse".
I'm sorry for asking a question that's not directly related to this video but you seem to understand details outside of only descriptions. In Oolacile, the branch-holding statues are clearly modeled after Gwyndolin - they are just missing their heads and snakes to make it not as apparent. Even though a large portion of the fanbase probably still accepts them to portray Dusk for some reason, I've believed that it's actually obvious that Oolacile must have been the place where Gwyndolin learned his trademark illusions at least. Do you have an idea what specifically could have caused the Oolacile residents to potentially turn against him and decapitate all the statutes?
Hey, thank you! And don't be sorry, I'm happy to answer any lore-related questions you may have. You are absolutely correct, those statues are of Gwyndolin, same as most statues of DS3's Anor Londo. I haven't studied Oolacile as deeply as other areas as of now, however if I were to point to a possible reason it'd be that the residents of Oolacile rebbelled against their "godly" rulers, and to them, Gwyndolin's statues may have represented their royal lineage.
i have a lot of disagreements with your ideas and theories that you present in the video: -the first one is the idea that Gwyn/Nito/Izalith are Humans, Miyazaki in an interview on the Podcast "Game No Shokutaku" in 2011 (shortly after the release of the first Dark Souls) said this in relation to Quelana and Salaman (who is the human that brought the art of pyromancy from Lordran to the Great Swamp). ------------------------------------------------------ Isomura Tomomi (Host): Quelana. Is she single? Does she have a boyfriend? Did she went out with Salaman? Miyazaki Hidetaka: The hell…???? Miyazaki Hidetaka: What is this? Isomura Tomomi (Host): A question! Miyazaki Hidetaka: As for boyfriend, I don’t think she has a boyfriend, believe me. Miyazaki Hidetaka: Salaman is not like that, no. First of all, there are different species. Quelana is a daughter of the Witch of Izalith, so regarding on reproductive actions, who knows if they’re even possible! Isomura Tomomi (Host): It could be platonic love! Miyazaki Hidetaka: Well, it may be. Probably will be okay with that. Miyazaki Hidetaka: Basically they are different species, and she’s without a doubt a good character. If you go for romance options, of all the female characters, she’s quite desirable. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Even though he only refers to the Izalith clan, we can relate this to both the Nito and Gwyn clans. Human are all those who have a fragment of Dark Souls, this is the distinction that the games make from the Human race
-Secondly, the idea is that the intro of DS1 is somehow a "Propaganda" of the Gods, for me this is just an initial way to introduce the players to the world of Dark Souls and its concepts in general and not something that is done to deceive the player, since everything that is said in the intro is confirmed by descriptions and dialogues throughout the game. Because if the intro was really propaganda why mention the "furtive pygmy", Gwyn's main goal with his manipulation is to alienate humanity from its origin and nature, and mentioning something like the pygmy doesn't make sense. Much of the information said in the intro is not common knowledge in the human world because it would make many question the "godhood" of the gods of Anor Londor (as you did in the video with certain information said in the intro).
-Regarding the darksign and the curse, for me there is no evidence that the Seath had any part in its creation and the idea that the Firekeepers spread the curse around the world. The darksign (and the Undead curse) is something derived from the fire seal that Gwyn placed on the humans/pygmy thus making them chained with the First Flame, sealing and restricting the Dark Soul and thus giving a "fleeting form" to the humans, when the Flame begins to fade the fire seal weakens and the Dark soul regains its strength and the humans regain their "Immortality" that was taken away by Gwyn.
-Now about Nito and the Way of White, there is nowhere in the game that indicates in any way that Nito is Lloyd, and also Nito has no relation to any action of the Way of White. Gwyn created this religion as a "tool" of alienation, to make Humans distance themselves from their origin and nature and thus make them closer to the Light and the culture of the gods and distance themselves from the darkness of their own nature. I have other points of disagreement but the text is already too long
Firstly, thanks for watching! I'll answer all your doubts. Miyazaki reffers to those of Izalith as a different species because of their "chaotic nature". They fused with other living organisms to become quimeras. That'd explain the therm he used. The same would maybe be true for Nito's form. I plan on covering him and the Way of White in more depth on a later video, but he's essentially the skeletons of many dead people who woke from their graves, not too unlike Manus. Would Manus be a different species too? :p (Yes, but he was human before.) Gwyn and the humans of the "world of men" are the same species, only they have more "humanity" within them, as if they're "richer" in soul than the regular peasant living in Lordran. Gwyn claimed to be a god, among with his lineage and associates, arbitrarily - yes, he is very powerful. But that's because he's got a lord soul. Not unlike the Witch of Izalith, for example. Being a god, his actions would acquire legitimacy. Read the pinned comment for a slightly better Nito explanation!
@@erickgondo9408 The intro for the first game is a story from the past told by an old lady to someone. Like she is telling a mythical legend story, not unlike Demon's Souls' intro - a story told by a bonfire. The world is introduced, yes, and the actual images we see are accurate, just out of order. That is evident by observing many things, such as the sky's color, and the dragon corpses - burnt by the Izalith witches, and when Gwyn comes to the surface, there they are, decomposing all through the soil. The intro mentioned the Furtive Pigmy as a nobody, and not as humanity's ancestor, as Miyazaki confirmed. Only as a nobody who found a lord soul but was forgotten.
Love this, thanks a lot for putting this vision together. I have been thinking a lot about how the patchwork of symbols reads and how the story truly tells itself with each iteration that is each title, specially after elden ring. Everything is already there! And u made a great work filling the gaps that are given elsewhere. Many other theories tend to be more obscure and twisted, plausible but unnecessary (and i bet many details will stay as that) but this is Ockham, and the main arch was solid. All the names and assets were already there, it was just a matter of connecting them as directly as possible!
Thank you so much!! And you're absolutely correct, everything is there already! We just have to interpret the world distinguishing propaganda/legend from fact. I have spent many hours analyzing the symbols and patterns too! Which is how I found out about Lothric's relation to Irythill at first - the patchwork of the Blue Sentinels has Lothric swords in DS3, which was a deliberate rework of that symbol. It's amazing, and that's just one small example! People just assume things have no meaning and are just there for gameplay or for us to meaninglessly speculate on or whatever. That's not true! :D
Very much reflects real conspiracy theories in ascribing too much well ordered malevolence in places that don't need it at the expense of human error, sentimental action, and in the case of fiction coherent thematics. Especially in regards to the character of Gwyndolin
Thanks for commenting. If you're interested in having a discussion, please feel free to tell me with what you disagree and I can answer it more precisely! But as for Gwyndolin, I do believe he is one of the most interesting characters. If you think I'm attributing too much to him, well, you must understand he is one of the most important characters in the narrative of Dark Souls. He's the Chief of the Gods, he's the inheritor of Velka's will, he's the one who reformed the Way of White (the world's most influential religion), who first administers the Undead Prophecy (as seen in Dark Souls 1), and as the so-called "god of illusion", he is definitely written as a ruler who acts from the shadows/as a master manipulator to enact his role. He's also a figure associated with the moon and the dark sun (the eclipse), both of which are major components of Dark Souls' plot.
Watched through your videos, very nice ideas and theories. One question would be though, what is the importance of the actual 'dark soul', which the games are named after? Especially considering Ringed City events.
I'll talk about that in depth later, but I'll give a brief explanation here: the "dark soul" reffers to what happens when the meek "hollows" of ancient times first made contact with the Pigmy's "lord soul". Their very frail light within became brighter and whiter. You see, alchemy and "chemistry" in the world of Dark Souls is quite relevant to this discussion. A dark soul is a soul that has a greater proportion of "darkness" (and perhaps "water") than of fire and light. You can observe that with the souls of abyssal beings, when their sprite is different from the other souls. Manus' and Gael's, for example. And... humanities! From the first game.
Velka was Gwyn's wife and Gwynevere's mother. She was not an illusion. You meet her in the game. She is the big crow that takes you from the Undead Asylum to the Firelink Shrine.
The big crow is just one of many of Velka's servants. You're correct about that. But she is not literally Velka. I don't doubt she was Gwyn's wife, in fact I have thought and written about it in the past. It could've been a sort of planned mariage between Gwyn's lineage and the other main force of humanity that fought alongside Gwyn, the one that commanded the ringed knights. However it is very much clear that Gwyndolin spoke as Velka and impersonated her after she died (her soul split and became things such as rings - I don't doubt one of those fragments became a giant crow, to be honest. But there's not too much evidence of that.) I'll elaborate on this on a later video. But thank you so much for sharing your perspectives!
@@armandaneshjoo Her soul was split into many assets that would aid the journey of the fire-linking undead. Such as the tear stone rings, the sacrificial rings, and I believe her daughters, the sable church siblings. As I've said, I don't doubt that even the giant crow is a part of her. But she is most definitely dead, and Gwyndolin speaks as her to guide her servants (with the aid of the reversal ring). Gwyndolin is her sucessor in more ways than one.
Nito is most definitely Lloyd. There are many reasons for my statement, it's not random or arbitrary. Firstly, I want to establish something. My method of analysis utilizes as one of its assets the understanding of the story as a piece of literature, with setups and payoffs. And one thing Miyazaki understands very well is tension and contrast. Almost every important character from his works has contradictions that contrast with each other in interesting ways. Nito being the father deity of The Way of White is one of those. As an embodiment of death, he is quite obviously not what one would infer to be the benevolent god of a religion of "holy purity and salvation" such as the Way of White. But that is the case; his paladins, such as Leeroy, are actually the agents of death. He is associated with Gwyn in a few ways. He isn't in any way opposite to Gwyn's rule, but an asset to it. Which is why they collaborate; Gwyn wants the curse to spread, so that his sun may become stronger, and Nito wants his death to spread. Gwyn's curse is spread mainly through death. You see? Once you start seeing not the trees, but the forest, you start to realise these things. Gwyn fabricated the Way of White as a way to disguise his and Nito's actions to spread the curse, and to misguide the undead on purpose. Which is why he would have to conceal Nito's identity as some other "god" (gods aren't real!) to be worshipped. And coming back to the method of analysis I mentioned, there is purpose behind Reah's questline in DS1 - it links the Way of White to Nito. It is about the disilusionment of that religion; the holy saint is betrayed by one of Nito's - one of the Way of White's - own undead hunters, Paladin Leeroy - one who is a figure of holyness on the surface, but is actually employed to spread death by Nito. I could go on, but that should be enough for now. I hope you're satisfied by that! And thanks for watching the video!
Hey! I have some things I want to point out! You have a very curious take on the DS-Lore and present a unique interpretation of it here. A lot of people have done different interpretations on the lore and some are more "fact" based, in terms of ingame-dialogue and item-descriptions, and others are more of a stretch and fill in the gaps with their imagination. I personally would argue, that this was done on purpose by Miyazaki and his Team, presenting cryptic lore to the player. As far as I know, Miyazaki did the very thing as a child with english stories, from which he understood only half of it and filled in the gaps with his imagination. In that light, interpreting the lore in Dark Souls in unique ways, and filling the gaps through knowledge, logic and imagination is the very thing Miyazaki wants us to do! And I also get a glimpse of how you interpret the lore in the way you do: The intro-cinematic alone takes place at a time of mythology and the explanation of how the world came to be sounds more mystic than anything and the general concept of how the world works is grounded in the esoteric. There are large gaps in the narrative, alone when it comes to time, like "For how long did this go on?", "When did this take place?", "How much time between these events?" and we just don´t really know, but we can make estimates depending on dialogue etc. (like Hawkshaw did). And there is the fight against the Dragons, which is conveyed and told like this heroic tale of epic proportions. Seeing this glorified depiction of Gwyn and his army, as well as establishing Lordran and building Anor Londo, one might think, that Gwyn is the hero of ancient times. BUT if you keep in mind, that history is mostly written by the victor and the depiction in the cinematic is kind of one-sided, it starts to feel weird. And you begin to question, what you just saw and heard: "Is that all there is to it? and is it all that took place?" And precisely because of an incoherrent narrative(timelapses, revealing just certain events), your imagination kicks in and tries to fill in the gaps, which leads eventually to your unique interpretation. All of that above, is just an elaborate way of saying: "I kind of have an idea, why you would think that ´there is Gwyn´s propaganda in the lore of DS´ , but I´m NOT agreeing with that. That is your interpretation, which is fine, but I strongly disagree, because I have a very different interpretation of the Lore in DS."
Thanks for sharing your opinions! While Miyazaki definitely does write with ambiguity in mind, there is definitely a cohesive narrative underneath layers of subtext; and it can be plucked out from and understood. There are no real gaps if you analyze the facts and see the bigger picture. This video is quite old, and I will remake it with updated information and a more polished script. I hope you'll stick around by then! :D
Thank u for the subtitles! English is my third language and sometimes it's easier to understand something if I'm reading it. This video is amazing, btw! ❤
An interesting point I learned whilst replaying the ringed city was that the very existence of the evil that humans call the abyss may be caused by the presence of fire. The locust preacher says “Where fire resideth, shadows twist and shrivel. But in the Abyss, there are shadows none”. Implying that without the presence of fire, there are no shadows in the abyss and the essence of humanity is purely expressed without horror. It seems that the terrible creatures of the abyss are dark reflections of the fire cast among the darkness of humanity “Fear not the dark my friend, and let the feast begin”
@@ChristianClown I wanted to understand the story of Dark Souls and what made it so unique from a literary angle. As the research went by, I began to develop ways to understand the story systemically, as in, the ways the world and major characters operate, set-ups and pay-offs, important themes, etc. This way I would not be searching for clues about random details for random, semi-baseless theories; I'd be building a solid foundation first and then the puzzles started solving themselves. That's what lead me to conclusions such as the ones I explain here. I have made a few minor mistakes over the years I'll possibly address in the future. But I genuinely believe the understanding I have of the story is very developed, and I'll keep doing my best.
I may not agree with all this, but this... This is good. Very good. It is far more original than most theories. That said, I only disagree with it in places where it agrees with common theories, so, yeah. Keep cooking.
Great video. I recently watched a Hawkshaw video about Havel and the Undead Rebellion. In your video at 18:54 you show the room with Havel's equipment in Anor Londo in reference to Velka's subordinates assisting the Undead journeys to sacrifice ultimately for Gwyndolin. What do you think about the Havel set being there? along with the Occult club? Was Havel a follower of Velka and therefore Gwyndolin? It is stated plainly ingame that he hates Seath but it does not say why. If Seath and Gwyndolin planned the firelink conspiracy why would Havel support it? Genuinely confused and curious of your thoughts. Thanks!
Seath is hated by those who are close to the dragons because of his aid in their extinction. In fact, I'd say it seem that even Seath may hate himself, judging by his reaction to the genocide of his kin in the first cinematic, but that's just a funny bit of speculation hahah. Havel and the followers of Gwyn's firstborn were allies to Gwyndolin, that's proven definitely by the third game. Thank you so much for watching and leaving your thoughts here!
This is a pretty cool analysis, altough I disagree on the point of gwyn and the other gods being all originally from the same hollow beings from the dark, like humanity was. DS3 for example is pretty clear in its distinctions between the gods and mankind. From my understanding, the original gods were born when the first flame came to the world, but inna way different from humanity, and thus they are ultimately alien to the world, despite the fact they have controlled and manipulated it for so long. Humany, however, managed to grab a part of the first flame and change through it, but will ultimately return to the dark. I like that idea because it draws paralels with Elden Ring, IE the idea of an ancient alien force taking control of the world and then warping and changing it to its own liking, while the original forces of the world slowly try to claim it back. The main difference between DS and ER is that in DS the primordial force taking back the world is basically fated to succeed while in ER the greater will has entrenched so hard into the natural order of things that removing it only an option in a few endings, with most just consisting of you taking over but ultimately maintaining it.
Thanks for commenting and sharing your views! But I definitely disagree. The gods *definitely* descended from those who came from the dark. This is implied again and again; in fact, this is the dramatic irony at play in Gwyn's bossfight, the climax of Dark Souls 1. He's revealed to be no more than a man, vulnerable and frail like any other. But of course, this is just thematic/narrative analysis; upon studying the logic of the world of Dark Souls, it becomes more and more clear that godhood is a mere fabrication and not a literal concept, as in, the Gods are simply beings who descended from those who came from the dark, but bear hefty, gleaming souls within them. As in, they're wealthy. They created mythical origins to deify themselves as a way to develop a divine right to kingship. :)
I enjoyed a lot of this lore theory and even agree with some parts, but the gwyndolin being Velka is incredibly incorrect. Both from in game evidence I.e velka’s talisman being a literal lock of black hair(as appose to gywndolins white/light blue colour) also she existed way before gwyndolin was created(In the same way pricilla and Yorksha were-through sex with a dragon aka seath). DS3 also introduced us too Velkas daughter who is tasked with painting a new world, gwyndolin at this point is dead and eaten by Aldrich being used as puppet and Velkas death is already explained too have been closely linked too the daughter/the painted world arc, having no bearing on the larger pontiff/irithyll plot. I could carry on but I think I’ve made my point. Apart from that you got a great perspective and spot on points, especially the reason for the convergence of time and space in 3.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. There's ample evidence to suggest that Gwyndolin was created with Velka's soul, much like Priscilla and Yorshka and later the daughters of the Sable Church. She sacrificed herself in a death ritual, and Gwyndolin rose as her successor, even going so far as to personify/act as Velka to command her Darkmoon Knights. Gwyndolin isn't just a heir to Velka, however; he was also created through a chunk of Gwyn's own Lord Soul, which is precisely why he managed to become the alchemical rebis, while his sisters turned out too feminine. I could go on, but I have covered this topic in more depth on later uploads and pinned comments. I'd recommend you watch my other videos, especially the "Lore mysteries hidden in plain sight" one.
Im starting this series now, it seens interesting, but without any reference in the game, i cant take everything so serious, i understand that adding item descriptions can be a pain, but at least a few of those would have surfice at least for the most obscure parts
Thanks for commenting! Honestly due to the many critiques received I'll probably be remaking this video with more a meticulous production. But for now, if there's any particular thing you want clarified, please feel free to ask and I'll provide you with an explanation!
Some interesting ideas here. Exploring novel interpretations of the lore can be fun, but a lot of the ideas presented in the video either directly contradict what is stated in-game or are unfounded. For instance, the explanation of how embers from the first flame granted life and souls to the beings of the ancient world was nicely worded, but using terms like “men” and “humans” and “pygmies” interchangeably isn’t accurate and it confuses the fact that while humans are descended from the pygmies, humans are not necessarily pygmies themselves (we clearly see that humans like the player character are different than the pygmies seen in the Ringed City). Furthermore, a large body of evidence indicates that humans, the race of beings known as “gods,” and giants are separate species from one another. Referring to them all as “mankind” misrepresents the fundamental intrinsic differences between the three races. Additionally, suggesting that there could have been multiple “furtive pygmies” who all found different instances of the Dark Soul creates immense problems. The Soul of Manus and other items in DS1 and 3 all but confirm that Manus was the single furtive pygmy who found the Dark Soul and then split his one soul. This is in accordance with every other lord soul - after all, we don’t see multiple Gwyn-like figures each discovering their own Soul of Light or anything like that. The final point that I’ll make is that the Great Swamp is definitively not Izalith. Laurentius clearly explains that he was “ecstatic” to become Undead because he could then leave his home, the Great Swamp, to travel to Lordran and be closer to Izalith. Laurentius’ home of the Great Swamp could not have been the same place as Izalith because he would have already been in Izalith the whole time and, as a resident, would have no need to distinguish between the two places or travel from one to the other. Errors like this permeate the video and render many conclusions and statements provably false, or at least incredibly unlikely and convoluted. I almost never comment on videos, but I really enjoyed your way of discussing the events of the lore and some of the ways you presented your ideas. I would love to see more from you, but just with more attention to the established base of knowledge.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts here! As for your point regarding my usage of therminology to reffer to the humanoids, what I aim to achieve with this rethoric is to convey the notion that all humanoids (excluding obvious non-humans such as the Giant slaves) have descended from the pygmies. The "giants" you're more likely thinking of (as in, not the stone-like, giant slaves that were sculpted and animated by Izalith and sold to the World of Men) are very tall "humans", as in, men who have large bodies due to, for example, having heftier chunks of soul within them. There are no "intrinsic differences" between these races, as in, they're all very similar in composition, unlike, for example, the Golem-like giants. Gwyn and his royal lineage aren't too "biologically" different to other humanoids at all; much like how his supposed godhood is a fabrication to legitimize his rule and deify himself, akin to the real world 'divine right of kings'. "The Soul of Manus and other items in DS1 and 3 all but confirm that Manus was the single furtive pygmy who found the Dark Soul and then split his one soul." This is incorrect, as the Dark Soul's existence is, in fact, a mythologized interpretation of events, and does not reflect reality, and this is a subtle plot twist that is shown to us multiple times, and is the pay-off of the Ringed City's narrative. I'll address this in more detail on my next Dark Souls lore video, but the Dark Soul is just humanity. And humanity is just the 'dark' that is intrinsic to men (those who descended from they who came from the dark), with a thin veil of soul around it. Which is why Gael realises that the so-called "Dark Soul" he seeks is actually just that, men's essence, and resorts to cannibalism to ferment the "Dark Soul" pigment within his own body. Manus' soul is just a soul that was overloaded with excess darkness, as he was the embodiment of the abyss' wildness that was caused by Gwyn shackling the dark through his curse. The Great Sqwamp is Izalith, indeed! Laurentius, much like the player and everyone in the Dark Souls world, is a time-traveler. It's a bit complicated to explain. Someone made this same point you're making, I'll share my response to him here:
The Great Swamp is Izalith from the past. Pyromancy became a taboo due to Gwyn's influence, as Izalith opposed him. Both civilizations engaged in war, it makes a lot of sense that pyromancy would be prohibited by Gwyn. The Great Swamp was altered due to the birth of the Bed of Chaos. All that lava did not arise out of nowhere; it is swamp water that got corrupted by the chaos of the ritual. That's also why there are so many dragon butts in Izalith. The swamp was full of dead remains of dragons who got reanimated by the chaotic flame. Laurentius could have done so in the past. As in, before the birth of the Bed of Chaos. We don't know when he was captured and for how long he was imprisoned. Considering he was the only undead we find alive in those barrels, and that there are a few cannibal butchers inhabiting the sewers (including one guarding the "meat storage" where Laurentius is kept, it's safe to conclude that he was most likely abducted during his journey up the depths. What I believe happened is that Laurentius comes from the past, as in, he traveled through time, much like we, the player. He tells us that "In this land, pyromancers earn a certain respect. The Witch of Izalith, one of the legendary Lords, is the godmother of pyromancy." However that is somewhat contradicted by what the game tells us in other instances, as pyromancy is reffered to as being "heretical" and the Great Swamp being a place of heretics. "[...] Eingyi, considered a heretic even at the Great Swamp." Heresy mostly being a propagandistic therm to describe that which stands in opposition to Gwyn. Which could imply that Laurentius precedes the war against the demons - the event that ruined the (superficially) amicable relation between Gwyn & the witches. The Great Swamp being described as a place "full of nature" is most definitely related to the fact that it was essentially a cemetery of remains of dragons, archtrees and men who fought in the war against the dragons. Nature thrived there due to the abundance of organic remains. Poisonous pyromancy being considered particularly heretical is due to the fact that they employ vapourized blood of 'men', which is implied to possess poisonous qualities, and to be what makes the water of Blighttown so poisonous. There are other connections between the Great Swamp and Izalith, such as Cuculus and Cornyx from DS3. I could go on but I plan to cover this in detail on a later video. I hope this is enough for now. Blighttown and Lost Izalith were more connected in the past. The Depths used to be a trade route that connected Izalith with the outside world (that is why Domhnall of Zena sits there.) The emerald dome around Izalith was not present back then. Which means Blighttown would likely have been part of the Great Swamp as well.
I've always been so impressed by DS1 worldbuilding specifically. It feels like a world where everything in it has a reason to exist. When creating it, it's like the story came first. In other games, things just exist arbitrarily and a story is written to justify it. Does anyone else feel this way? maybe I'm being too hard on new titles
I don't agree with you with the latter part, and if you allow me to tell you of the deeper intricacies of the other games you'll see them with a new set of eyes! :´D However it is true that DS1's world building is incredibly rich. Thank you for watching!
I don't understand, why would Velka want the linking of the fire? Is it that she prefers the world of cinder, or that she despises the Abyss? I think his theory implies that Velka doesn't want the abyss, and wants to restore the original age of dark that was meant to be. That's why she favoured paintings, which is confirmed to be the most acceptable good ending of Dark Souls trilogy.
Thanks for commenting! Velka was the inventor of Fire-linking. Fire-linking is a way of combating the Curse of Undead and restoring/advancing the natural cycle, draining the fire of the sun. This is precisely why below Irithyll rests the Profaned Flame. Fire-linking brought forth the night of Irithyll, and much like how Gwyn had created the Curse of Undead to shackle the Dark below the ground, Velka's Fire-linking did the same, but for the fire, more or less. Just to be clear, the Curse of Undead is a mechanism devised by Gwyn in colaboration with Seath (the one who invented the Curse) and Nito (the one who helped spread it; Allfather Lloyd) to prolong the Age of Fire. He had intended to curse those outside of Anor Londo's (the World of Men's) walls, so that their souls would fuel the sun. Of course, it all backfired and etc.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I always had doubts about two things: why is Velka allowing undead into Lordran, and what was Velka and Gwyndolin's relationship (souvenirs of reprisal being in Ariamis). What I don't still understand is why Gwyn linked the first flame then if, as you say, the firelinking was invented/promoted by Velka. I'm sorry but it is paradigm-changing for me to think that by the linking of the flame we are favouring the age of Dark. All what I learnt by now suggested the contrary. It kinda makes sense by the DS3 usurpation of the flame ending, but I'm not sure Velka would be fully aligned of the Sable Church objectives. Another thing that I can't see is the following: if Velka is promoting firelinking, are the remaining gods against it? If so, why Gwynevere scapes Lothric once he renounces to link the flame? So many questions 😅
@@nightmike7655 Velka was Gwyn's wife, and Gwyndolin was alchemically produced by Seath using a chunk of Velka's and Gwyn's souls (as well as the 'essence' of the dragons, which is why Gwyndolin has snake legs, and why he's the alchemical rebis - a transcendental being that unites male and female natures, and is empowered by a dragon.) This means that Gwyndolin was, more or less, Gwyn's bastard child (which is why the Way of White fundamentalists in DS3 refer to him as a bastard, and to Fire-linking as a bastard's curse; Prince Lothric, who was convinced by Sulyvahn to abdicate his duty, refers to Fire-linking as a curse as well.) Gwyndolin follows Velka's will and helps the Chosen Undead link the fire and etc. The Usurpation of Fire ending is the continuation of Prince Lothric's duty; he was to succeed Gwyndolin as the alchemical rebis (which is why he too is an effeminate male) and usurp the fire to lead mankind in the new age. I explain this in more detail in my video about Fire-linking, if you're interested. As to how/why Gwyn linked the fire, well, there are two possibilities. He could've been tricked by Velka, or directly coup'd. It's likely that he was afflicted by his own Curse of Undead and lost clarity of mind (possibly a deliberate move by Velka, as she sacrificed herself in a ritual, and we know the Curse is spread mainly through death, and Velka's children which were likely 'born' of this ritual are all adepts of Fire-linking, with the exception of Friede, who abandoned her role as a leader of the Sable Church.) The "remaining gods" (meaning the royals of Lothric and Irithyll) aren't against Fire-linking, quite the contrary; the main enemy of Fire-linking is Sulyvahn (and Aldrich.) I hope this helped clear things out a little bit. I'm currently writing a script for an enormous video that'll paint the whole picture of DS1/2/3's narrative. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy that's a fascinating theory! I'll watch the rest of the videos of this series. So even Gwynevere, who wants to prolongue the age of fire, was decieved by wanting the linking of the flame?
It is really hard not to see your work in Elden Ring. Specifically, the battle within a family to either transport all souls to the sun or to drain all souls from the sun. Queen Marika and the Golden Order have Erdtree burials. The Erdtree consumes both the physical body and the soul from the roots of the tree. The physical body replenishes the tree and the souls are transported to the top/crown/sun of the tree. As this is a process, the Greater Will shares the sap/blood of the Erdtree to empower its warriors for further conquest and soul transportation to the "sun." Marika was a Numen and so where the Nox. She is betrayed by the Nox and Ranni. They conspire to kill her "Golden son" and introduce a form of death that will trap souls on the material plane, Those Who Live in Death. Then with Ranni's Tranished Consort, the Elden Beast is defeated, severing the Greater Will's connection to the physical plane. Instead of mending the ruin, a void is left in place of the sun. A cold dark moon. The Nox and Ranni worship a Moon/abyss/void God of the cosmos. Quote from Ranni I am the witch Ranni. I stole Death long ago, and search now for the dark path. That I might one day upend the whole of it, and rid the world of all that came before. Sorry to blow you up about Elden Ring. Have a good day, sir
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts! I definitely have noticed many similarities between Dark Souls' and Elden Ring's narratives. Miyazaki likes to rebuild and his ideas a lot, and it's quite noticeable! And while I don't plan to dive too deep in Elden Ring's story, as my idea for this channel is to dissect Dark Souls and Demon's Souls first and foremost, it's always fun to read comments that point out things like this. :)
There are many similarities, indeed! Gwyndolin being the alchemical hermaphrodite just like Marika - a "god" who shatters in two, and divides her male and female halfs - is one of them. In fact, there are many parallels between Velka and Marika. Both have planned big conspiracies, etc. Thank you for watching :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy All the plan of Miquella with castel sol in elden ring is identical with the conspiracy of Gwyndolin. I don't know if you're into the Elden Ring lore, but the parallels between Gwyndolin and Miquella are very interesting and even seem to confirm some of your ideas
I wouldn't call Elden Ring garbage. It might not be your cup of tea but it is still an amazingly fun and well made game. But I do think that the Dark Souls universe is far better overall. Dark Souls is imo a work of art that can stand next to other fictional giants such as LOTR and GoT. Elden Ring is just a great game. We still talk about Dark Souls story all these years later and it is still so captivating. I don't think Elden Rings story has quite the same staying power. Again imo. A lot of Elden Rings story is basically reused Dark Sould story anyways.
Thanks for commenting! I have talked about it on other videos, such as "Lore Mysteries Hiding In Plain Sight". I recommend you watch it if you're interested! If you're still confused by that claim, let me know and I'll answer you again :)
Loved your video, but i thing it will greatly increase the content if u put some itens descriptions and dialogues with the evidence, but it was really nice to see this video!
Thank you!! And I certainly know I should be including those kinds of things, as I did in the past, but I have too little time unfortunately. Not including them means I make these twice or even 3x as fast. If there's anything lacking you can always ask me in the comments, I could elaborate with suitable explanations! And I'll always clarify things with later videos too.
It's quite obvious from their cultures and presentation. Gough, as established in this video, is a giant. By definition he hails from Izalith. And he likes sculpting, too, probably a habit he picked up there. Ciaran is found at Oolacile, and she wears a very interesting outfit as well as a weird, one-eyed helmet. That helmet symbolizes Kalameet - a Dragon from around that region. I'll make a video about that later, so don't worry! Artorias is a skeleton. Hahah.
@@thefirelinkconspiracyI would disagree about Artorias, but only because I think the impression given was him being perfectly healthy before, with " nary a mote of Dark". By all accounts, he could've been like Gwyn and others. That said, the idea of a massive skeleton running around as a Knight in shining armour beloved by princesses and fan boys alike is quite funny.
@@alyseleem2692 I think it's quite intuitive - his armor is abnormally thin, even when your character wears it. There are many subtle hints, I'll list them all on another video. But he and his legacy is closely associated with "skeletons". His signature move, the flipping attacks, seem to be a distinct characteristic of the combat arts of skeletons throughout the series. Look at the Abyss Watchers, his soul's reincarnations. They are just above the catacombs of Wolnir - that association was not a coincidence. He is, even before his downfall, unlike other characters associated with Anor Londo and Gwyn - like Ciaran. They both share a similar origin, in a way - they both are closer to the dark. Ciaran comes from Oolacile, a township that arose more directly from its ancient, underground culture, (which is why it was one of the first victims of the abyss, of Gwyn's shackles.) That may even have influenced Gwyn's decision of sending him to deal with the spread of the abyss. :)
Not to mention the diversity he'd bring to the "internationalistic" order of Gwyn's knights (as a way to bring representation too all of his subject territories.) There's one from his lineage, a faraam dragonslayer (a "godly character"), a human, a giant, and a skeleton. ;)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I think the Abyss Watchers' location has more to do with their own history and foundation; their entire setup is essentially what happens if you turn the story of Dark Souls 1 into a religion. The three fires depict the three Lords; the fourth fire is one we can't reach. Assets show it depicts Seath. Wolnir's position beneath the Abyss Watchers implies their history together; the Abyss Watchers were once a " caravan of Undead". The " festering greatwood" only emerged after the wolf blood dried. The story I get from it is that the Abyss Watchers were rebel Undead under Wolnir's rule, who took inspiration from the tales of Artorias and the Chosen Undead to form a rebellion that ended in sealing Wolnir in the Catacombs, and the foundation of Farron, their own nation. That said, if you mean the connection in the symbolic sense, you're right. That still leaves the question: If Artorias was a skeleton from among those dwelling in Nito's domain, why did the Dark affect him so negatively? As far as we know, they be chillin' down their in Nito's " light-devouring domain". Is it because it was specifically Manus?
I don't think there's a clear answer for that. It's one of the only questions that appear to have no answer, as in, it's a purely magical/eldritch phenomena. That's definitely an exception to the rule, however, as the Dark Souls universe operates on a solid "fantastical science" logic.
Thank your for commenting. The fire-linking prophecy was devised by Velka and or Gwyndolin to act as a counter to the undead curse, which harvests the soul of men as fuel to the sun to prolong the Age of Fire. Refusing to link the fire does not make it go dark, I'm not sure where this is shown. For example, in DS3, by refusing to link the fire you can either usurp it, or offer your sovereign soul to the sun itself (to revert the effects of fire-linking.) In both DS1 and DS2 we're never shown the effects of refusing to link the fire, but that is implied is that we go our own way to become a sort of "sovereign", and the game's cycle implies that we'd be the victim of the next chosen undead who'd then claim our sovereign soul.
This is definitely an interesting take, but I feel like we need to be seeing item descriptions and dialogue and such on screen as we watch, because otherwise it feels like an alternate take based on very little.
Thanks for commenting! I understand your criticism, and I believe I have been more methodical with my other videos. With this one I really did try to be more concise and that was to a fault. I had been absent for almost 2 years and since my free time was quite limited I wanted to be done with the production quickly. If you're interested, I'd recommend checking my other videos out, as they are a better showcase of my method of analysis. If you have any questions regarding the video, please feel free to post them here. I will be answering them as soon as possible. :)
This is the "plain English" standard of Lordran's history. Anyone still sweating over Elden Ring can refer to the deft word associations and thematic strokes for bit of inspiration toward interpreting the new world.
Orenstein is from faraam? I thought forossa was the lands name and faraam a god? Then again its possible they changed the name later on and the old name became the name of the war god as that name would've been associated with war in their culture since it was the name of the land during the dragonwar
Thanks for commenting! I think I might've misspoke in this video. I have received a fair ammount of criticism due to the unusual lack of in-game "evidence", and to address that, and other minor mistakes, I'll be remaking this video. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask them here!
@@thefirelinkconspiracy I have no others. I hope you aren't demotivated and do more. It's different than many of the other interpretations of souls lore I've seen and takes into account the following games which I don't see many channels do
Like…specifically the paladins of nito thing? If it’s speculation entirely that’s awesome and my bad for missing you say that, but if I missed something this big in the lore I’m gonna be a little disappointed in myself lol
@@mayhewstorm1473 I'm so sorry about that! I have done so, so much research over many years, and the thing I lack is time to make the videos. My older videos had plenty of in-game item descriptions and dialogue and etc., but for this one, I didn't include them to speed up the process. I will be clarifying and even improving on many of the statements and claims I make in future videos. The asterisks mean that there is more context needed to understand that part perfectly - some of that I explain through the pinned comment, and some will have to be talked about on a later date. Some of it I answer in the comments. Thank you!
@@mayhewstorm1473 About the paladins of Nito, you can watch the second video of my older series, I talk a bit about that there. And my pinned comment has an explanation too. However I plan on making a Way of White video that goes more in depth. It'll be either the next or the one after the next. :D
@@thefirelinkconspiracy sounds like I’ll have to check out your older content. I’m excited to see more, no need to apologize, just glad to hear from a creator who cares. Keep up the great work fr
to anyone else experiencing some uh...difficulties. its gets more enjoyable toward the end. it starts becoming more and more fanfictiony and the matter of fact tone can becomes part of the story telling.
although i will say this constant "she turned out to feminine" sadly falls solidly in the transphobic sphere. wtf does to feminine mean? what how the fuck is someone not a true hermaphrodite? what is your understanding of the concepts and how do they effect the very real people who are just trying to enjoy your hard work and effort
@@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w Hey, thanks for commenting! Firstly, everything I've said here is based on evidence we get from the games. If you're interested to see most of the things covered in here in more detail, I recommend you watch my other videos. This one is more of a condensed introduction to these ideas. If there was any specific point you're not sure about, I can elaborate on it here. As for your reply, I think you misunderstand the nature of Gwyndolin and the concept of the alchemical rebis which he represents. He was specifically produced by Seath to inherit both male and female natures, much like Prince Lothric was produced by Lothric royals to be his worthy heir. Our player character in DS3 must too possess the natures of both genders within them in order to become the 'worthy heir' to the flame. Priscilla and Yorshka were failed attempts of producing the alchemical rebis. They turned out too feminine, as in, Seath couldn't produce a being who inherited both the male and female natures. :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy i think an interesting question to answer qould be: is the skull a remnant of the war or did it get to ash lake afterwards? sure looks demonic, but actually more like a giant human skull with horns and fangs....not sure wither tbh :D
@@MartinBahls I think that place is full of links to Seath's research. It might be a secret hideout for some of his subjects and creations. Which would mean he's got some involvement with creating the titanite demons, if the skull is indeed the blacksmith deity's. It wouldn't surprise me since there are many of them in Sen's fortress, and that fortress was likely built by Seath. He's "Sen". That's my belief for now (I ended up saying it all! Well.. please wait for the in depth video anyway!!)
Can't wait to watch, brother! I focus on the symbolic side of the lore; like the fact that Light, Dark and Fire situationally symbolise Atma, Maya and Logos. The Abyss can represent the highest order/reality, pure potential/nothingness, but darkness can also represent the illusion of Maya or the fall into Sin. Similarly, pure light can represent the Oneness of God but Oolacilian sorceries manipulate light as an illusory substance.
I don't watch other channels as to not let my opinions be shaped by external sources. However since you've mentioned it I took a brief look at his videos. They're of great quality, however I disagree with his methodology. Looking for clues that are particular to fan translations of the japanese script can lead to tunnel-visioning, and that is why I usually avoid it. For example, believing Velka is a Witch of Chaos mostly because both of them are described as heretic, when it is quite apparent that the therm heretic is used to describe those who go against Gwyn and the 'gods', and both Velka and the witches did. But this is just my opinion. Thanks for the comment!
It would be good if you could link sources to substantiate claims you make throughout the video. For example the claim that Gwyndolin was created by Seath is interesting but I can't see where there's any actual evidence to cooperate it anywhere in the games, aside from the very loose idea that Gwyndolin = snakes and snakes = dragons. Just the idea that he's a hermaphrodite isn't really supported by anything, as far as we know he was just born under the sign of the moon and raised as a girl. Plus the linking of the fire not being Gwyn's doing but instead a punishment imposed upon him is just weird.
Thanks for commenting! I'll try to address your questions, please feel free to respond if you're still unsure about something. Gwyndolin's origin was addressed in more detail in the "Lore Mysteries Hiding In Plain Sight" video. Gwyndolin's origin is quite mysterious indeed, but it is hinted that he is the result of Seath's obsession with producing a dragon-human hermaphroditic homunculus. Priscilla, much like Yorshka, were failed attempts at producing a hermaphrodite; they turned out too feminine. Him being a hermaphrodite isn't only implied by the alchemical parallel; he was intentionally designed as to look female, despite being a man; he impersonates Velka and Gwynevere with a female voice through the Reversal Ring; he was raised as a girl; and his worthy heir, produced by the obsessive royals of Lothric, is very effeminate too. In DS3, in order to succeed in usurping the fire, we must absorb the essence of the other gender, thus confirming the necessity of alchemical "hermaphroditism" for that duty.
Additionally, if you analyze narrative build-ups and pay-offs it becomes easier to see: Seath was granted a chunk of Gwyn's soul. -> Seath was obsessed with producing a crossbreed. -> Priscilla, a female crossbreed, was sealed within the painting. She too knows of illusory magic. Gwyndolin is her brother. -> Yorshka too is Gwyndolin's brother. She too turned out too feminine, and likely knows of illusory magic as well. -> Gwyndolin, a mysterious so-called "bastard son" (DS3 Evangelist dialogue) of Gwyn, who appears female despite supposedly being a man and was raised as a girl, takes power as Chief of the Gods; he succeeded Gwyn, who supposedly "self-sacrificed" to link the fire, and was then called "Lord of Cinder" (kind of an inversion of his deific title as Lord of Light.) -> Gwyndolin hides behind an illusion of Gwyn, within his secret tomb, and commands Velka's Darkmoon knights. -> Right after Gwyn supposedly sacrificed himself to "prolong the age of fire", night befalls Anor Londo. -> The royals of Lothric, a kingdom with a strong relation to Anor Londo, is obsessed with producing a 'worthy heir'. -> Lothric, an effeminate man was born as a result of their obsession. -> We as the usurper of fire must become an alchemical hermaphrodite to usurp the fire and rule as the lord of a new age. The curse of undead was Gwyn's conspiracy against men outside his domain; a mechanism to prolong the age of fire. That's why he was punished, and that's the role of Velka, one of Dark Souls most important characters, the goddess of Sin and Punishment, who was considered a "rogue goddess" (why? Because she stood against Gwyn, the previous "Chief of the Gods". But her plan was successful, and she became the main source of worship of the Way of White.) I could get more detailed than this if you want, but all of this information is laid out in my videos.
Unfortunately an awful set of circumstances made it so I was unable to have access to energy and internet for a couple of weeks, and I still don't for my PC. But I want to get back to this series as soon as I can. Thank you for enjoying it and for your patience!
I think it's quite intuitive - his armor is abnormally thin, even when your character wears it. There are many subtle hints, I'll list them all on another video. But he and his legacy is closely associated with "skeletons". His signature move, the flipping attacks, seem to be a distinct characteristic of the combat arts of skeletons throughout the series. Look at the Abyss Watchers, his soul's reincarnations. They are just above the catacombs of Wolnir - that association was not a coincidence. He is, even before his downfall, unlike other characters associated with Anor Londo and Gwyn - like Ciaran. They both share a similar origin, in a way - they both are closer to the dark. Ciaran comes from Oolacile, a township that arose more directly from its ancient, underground culture, (which is why it was one of the first victims of the abyss, of Gwyn's shackles.) That may even have influenced Gwyn's decision of sending him to deal with the spread of the abyss. Not to mention the diversity he'd bring to the "internationalistic" order of Gwyn's knights (as a way to bring representation too all of his subject territories.) There's one from his lineage, a faraam dragonslayer (a "godly character"), a human, a giant, and a skeleton. ;)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy But if Artorias is a skeleton who's "closer to the dark" as you say, then why was he still corrupted by the Abyss? Elizabeth says that he has "nary a murmur of dark".
@@Solibrae If you have a glass with 100ml of water, will it still be overwhelmed if you spill 2L into it? Every being can be corrupted by the dark. Elizabeth's quote tells us that he had some dark within him, which would, assumedly, differentiate him from the royals of the world of men, which would be godly and have no dark within. It's more of an "alchemical" thing, I'll explain better it on my next video, don't worry! :)
@@thefirelinkconspiracy Yeah, I guess that makes sense but I've always thought that Elizabeth's quote means that he didn't possess any dark nature at all, which is why he got corrupted like he did. If he was a skeleton that got corrupted by the dark though, that does make High Lord Wolnir a parallel to him, which is an unusual but cool connection!
None of the four lords were human tough, humanity in dark souls comes from the dark soul, they may were pigmies that took the other souls for themselves but they aren't human, you can even inflict a special kind of bonus damage to them with occult weapons, that were created specifically to kill gods.
Thanks for commenting! The so-called "gods", were human, yes! They've descended from those who came from the dark. What differentiates them from the pigmies is their (alchemical) composition, as in, they just have a greater ammount of soul within them. The Dark Souls are nothing more than humanities, as in, the dark interior of men covered by a thin layer of light. I mean, you could definitely argue that they have technically differentiated themselves from humanity, but I wanted to emphasize that the therm "god" is propagandistic in nature and the royal bloodlines that claim to possess godhood aren't truly special, they are just "wealthy" in souls, more or less. I'll address this in more detail in a future video. I hope you've enjoyed this!
@@thefirelinkconspiracy that would mean that they only would have become mor powerful once the age of dark began and gwyn sacrificing himself to the flame would not make any sense, also, artorias is said to don't have any dark, that's the reason why he is corrupted by the abyss. They aren't human at all, after the fire came disparity; life (witch of izalith), death (nito), light (Gwyn) and dark (humanity). I understand that you took the time to make you theory of how the events of the games happened but there is nothing that proves that they are human, only the opposite.
@@andresospina6596 I don't see the relation of them only acquiring "more souls" once Gwyn was burnt to link the fire. There are no "life, death, light and dark" souls; this is a very popular but incorrect assumption I've seen repeated since over a decade ago. There is no evidence to support such a view, quite the opposite; once Gwyn was made to sacrifice his soul to the fire, he became a hollow, just like any other man who he sentenced to be cursed. That is the dramatic irony on display at the climax of the first game; Gwyn is not special, he's no "god", he's just a "man". Just to make my view clearer, here is a timeline of events according to my interpretation: "Those who come from the dark" were born in the underground, below an Archtree, from the light that penetrated the shadow cast on the ground. -> Eventually, they explored the underground and found chunks of flame; from their first contact with the flame, they became "humans", as in, they acquired more "souls" for themselves. -> Cultures and civilizations arose, with humans still living underground, below the archtrees. During this period, the so-called "lords" were truly established; leaders of their groups that had found "lord souls", big chunks of fire. -> The war against the dragons occurs. -> The "World of Men" (Gwyn's surface world kingdom, the walled land of Anor Londo and etc.) is built. -> etc.
@@thefirelinkconspiracy but your view on it is based on nothing, you are chosing to ignore the intro of the games and the fact that gods are weak to dark and occult damage, the game tells you that before the fire and the souls found within it there was no light or dark, gywn sacrificed himself to extend the age of fire because he feared the dark age and humanity. he didn't had any dark, he was terrified by it. If you want to ignore every piece of dialog and cinematic that contradicts you then there will never be evidence for you.
@@andresospina6596 I'm sorry if I haven't managed to convince you, but my view is not based on nothing. I'm not ignoring any of the things you've mentioned, quite the contrary; I have made an in-depth analysis of the opening cinematic, and have adressed why the so-called "gods" are weak to occult (dark) damage (they possess brighter souls than the average man, thus, they're more vulnerable to the effects of dark.) Before the fire there were no souls/life, yes. But you're incorrect about the Age of Fire. The Age of Fire didn't start "from the moment fire appeared", but after it emerged to the surface, thus becoming the sun. This is directly stated and shown by the opening cinematic; only after the war against the dragons did the Age of Fire begin. The "Age of Fire" is daytime. Gwyn's curse upon men was meant to prolong this daytime by extracting their souls as fuel to the sun. Do you disagree that the curse was fabricated by Gwyn? I haven't ignored any piece of dialogue or cinematic, quite the opposite :)
Thanks for commenting! I have received this criticism for this particular video a few times. When I was making this video, I wasn't as careful as I usually try to be for a few reasons, one of which being the lack of free time to work on it. But if you have any questions, or if you want evidence for a specific claim, please feel free to respond here! I have no issue providing plenty of evidence and explanations for everything I say. I'd also recommend my other more recent videos if you're interested. Again, thanks for your feedback!
What’s annoying is that Elden Rings backstory is clearly more fleshed out, it’s just obscured or not present at all in the game - even with environmental storytelling. Dark Souls world works because there is no clear cut story, but the parts we see are enough for us to fit everything together cohesively, while Elden Ring clearly only has one ‘answer’.
When it always came to dark souls lore analysis, I always leaned more to Hawkshaw more than Vatti. And this analysis is bringing back those feelings of those old hawkshaw vids again. Watching this I felt like every hole, or gap that they had was filled by what was put forth in this video. Mainly Velka BEING Gwyndolin. And seeing someone finally bring up Gwyndolin and Seath’s very clear and obvious relations was so cathartic. Man I cant wait to binge this channel lol.
