Dark Sun and Why it's Great | Dungeons and Dragons | Web DM 

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"As much as I hate sand due to its coarse and rough texture, by golly do I love me some Dark Sun." - Anakin Skywalker probably

There's something appealing about an arcane caster in Dark Sun, who plays more like a Rogue, simply because casting spells is a tool of last resort. The character runs around with a sling, or beats people with a quarterstaff. Having a pack full of mundane tools like grappling hooks, to avoid needing to cast Levitate or the like. Always careful to look and act like a normal person, so no one suspects they're secretly a Defiler. Trying to obtain a steady supply of water, so he can grow plants in greenhouse hydroponics, so he has enough life to accomplish his long-term goal. That goal? _Escape._ Crack planar travel, and get the hell off of Athis, and somewhere else where magic flows more freely.

Currently DM'ing for the first time and chose dark sun as a setting. My friends love it. It has been such a blast. Don't let the harshness of the world make it seem daunting and for elite dnd players only. I have 2 new players and they've having a great time.

Dark sun was my favorite thing in Highschool, but never found anyone to play it with me. I had everything for it, all the box sets, books and monstrous compendiums. All lost to damage in storage. Sigh. I feel like it is a lot like Dune meets John Carter done with the classic D&D. Most of the versions I remember had the rule that every player character has at least one psionic talent, and the strength of that talent grew with the player, but you could also have psionisist as a class option to specialize and train in the psionic arts.

What is this? *Bruh, what if Conan was Mad Max?* Keep talking

Jim, you know what they say, a dwarf without his beard is surely a sign of madness... I’ll leave you with that.

My first dnd game was Dark Sun, and I love everything about it . Especially in retrospect the thing I miss the most about 2ndE Dark Sun is the fact they did _not_ care about balance. Or at least not just in game mechanics. Your half-giant had double hp, excessive physical stats, but he would be viewed as a dumb brute slave even if he wasn't. Your thri-kreen was cool as hell, but couldn't speak common. Mages were powerful but illegal. So much more interesting than anything done in any setting after 2E. Oh, and it was 4d4+4, the weak have already been culled 😂

Edge Lord Defiler: "This planet is dying, and I shall kill it."

Why it's great: art by Brom.

The one feature between Defilers and Preservers that you didn't mention was that, being based on 2nd Ed, the two versions of Mage had radically different Xp costs to level: the Defiler took much less Xp to get from one level to the next than the Preserver did. So if you had a party, for example, with both a preserver and a defiler going through the same challenges, in the end, the defiler will be higher level than the preserver. I can explain the Cannibal Halflings: A) they do NOT eat other halflings, they religiously refuse to eat another halfling, even in times of extreme lack. B) they only eat other races, and the fact they eat sentient races is why they were termed "cannibal" The reason why they are cannibal is because they are trying to reclaim lost halflings: all races on Athas were once Halfling. one of the Arcane Ecological Disasters in the history that made Athas barren was the biomanipulation of the halflings into the races you have now, and the halflings are trying to eat the other races to get those halflings back.

My biggest complaint about 5th edition is no Greyhawk setting. Yet every few month they are introducing a classic Greyhawk module. I love how they improve the town setting in Ghost of Salt Marsh. That was a fun adventure to go through. I enjoyed the Mad Max feeling of Dark Sun.

I hope they bring an official 5e dark sun supplement soon

Dark Sun as hopepunk isn't something that'd ever occurred to me... until now.

12th level party finds one rusty bronze dagger Fights to the death for it

I remember when I took our 4E group here. It was a long running campaign where we passed along the job of DMing the game, so every player was a DM for a time. I can't remember exactly what all I had planned, but I had the group find a portal to here after a series of strange abductions. Basically it had 2 plot points to deal with though, one being the cult followed here who were trying to create philosophers stones by using blood mixed of every race, as well as pulling in small parts of other worlds to create their own pocket dimension. The other point being this world itself, which was ravaged after the gods abandoned them, so the players were also seeing if they could somehow earn the gods favor enough to give this land a second chance. I also had a fun bait and switch with the players where the ruler of this world was name dropped as "Vecna", full name of Vandam Leonidas Vecna, a very proper, Elven emperor who was actually very nice. There was gonna be a thing about how he wasn't actually the one causing oppression, but the ones under him were in secret, and he was so consumed with trying to earn the gods favor to save the land that he was oblivious to what was going on outside of his tower. Someday I really wanna finish the story if I can get the group together again.

This was and is still my favorite campaign setting. Any else remember reading the "The Prism Pentad" and "Tribe of One" series!

The most under utilized campaign setting for DnD. I wish more would be done with Dark Sun.

Thank you for making this video so many people talk about dark sun with no explanation for what it is other than it's dark....

I was a Dungeon Master for Dark Sun. It's an incredible, unique, and very rich universe. I loved it! Today, I have obsidian dice as a tribute to the world of Athas, which holds a special place in my dice collection!

"Bring me a shrubbery!"

One thing that always amused me with athas is the progenitor race for all the major species were halflings. That humans/dwarves/elves all are mutant descendants of halflings.

I always had the idea of a temporary psionic power. As the harsh winds on the desert would shift, so would the player's psionic ability. Basicaly, you reroll your power every 4 or 5 in-game days.

A psionics video AND a Dark Sun video? You guys TRYING to give me a heart attack from mirth?

Anyone ever worked Athas into a Spelljammer campaign? I seem to recall there being lore about it being "incredibly difficult" to access its crystal sphere but I feel like it's an idea with alot of potential either with the PCs ship getting stuck there with the goal of escaping or seeing how the world would be affected if more ships started coming and going maybe eventually becoming some kind of D&D Tatooine/Jakku?

I have been searching for art to use in my Dark Sun campaign, and the fact that it has been so difficult to find just goes to show how specific and different the Dark Sun aesthetic really is.

It was great getting all these nifty toys and toolsets being brought in. One of my favorite additions was Avengions; where dragons (specifically The Dragon of the Tyr region) are engions of destruction, Avengions are creatures of hope, of creation. Those 2 pc games, the core paperbacks, etc. hold such a warm place in my heart.

Athas, Athas never changes. *cue Fallout 1's Vats of Goo theme*

Thank you for talking about my home away from ravenloft Eating halfings and hunting with thri keen

We need and want a 5e Dark Sun!

I remember finding out about Dungeons & Dragons for the first time in the early 90s and a trashy babysitter and my crazy Catholic dad had 10-year-old me convinced that it was "Satanic." lol... But yeah, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Spelljammer... Those are the modules I remember from back then and though I never played any of them I almost feel like that might have been a golden age of D&D.

I've always loved this campaign setting.

I just started listening to the novels for Dark Sun. I read the first two when I was 15 and they hold up well.

great video! right now I am creating my own campaign setting and Dark Sun just begs me to take ideas from it! thanks to you guys I have more inspiration to keep on working!

I'm a simple templar. You make a video on Dark Sun, I watch it.

I really like Dark Sun, Birthright, Dragonlance, and Greyhawk, but Eberron stole my heart. It’s such a damn good setting.

Thanks, guys, for keeping Athas alive, by talking about it in your video. IDK if I overstep here, but there is a great podcast on the Dark Sun setting out there. It has a great interview with Troy Denning (co-creator of the setting and author of the Prism Pentad). Check it out: misdirectedmark.com/2018/11/15/bone-stone-and-obsidian-episode-9-troy-denning-part-1/

I run my own DarkSun/Carcosa (lotfp) campaign setting. I've always loved this Setting. Thank you for the energy of this vid. 4years late to the party 😅

I would love to play in a Dark Sun campaign with these guys.

Halflings are the oldest species on athas...Unless I misremember they don't eat other halflings but anything else is food

Is land between two rivers on hiatus? It's my favorite campaign to listen too and I miss it quite a bit. Keep up the great work, you guys are the best. Thanks

I hear @Runehammer screaming "DARK SUUUUN!!!"

I may have missed it in the video, but as far as influences on the setting, we can't forget Clark Ashton Smith. I'd warrant The Abominations of Yondo played at least a small role.

One of my all time favourite DnD novels was set in Dark Sun called "Tribe of One". Very clever idea where the entire party of characters were all personalities inside one young boy. So he had memories of things he didn't remember, one was a psychic, one was a fighter, and one protected them all from death and was a terrifying whirlwind of destruction. Pretty much like Kevin in"Split". Loads of fun, and clever situations solved in a very unique manner

I bought Dark Sun in it's first print. It was Powergaming, all the stats were higher you rolled 4d4+4. Every character had psionics, Magic drained the life from the land. And there was only one dragon and he was a BAMF. Most of the people who play 5e nowadays would read it and say it was for murder hobos. It was. I was a Murder hobo DM and I still am so trust me it's for murder-hobo's.

8:12 that is such a fucking cool premise for a D&D setting

"Why not pick seasonal fruit in the fields of Urik?"

I am calling it right here right now. "Drum Roll" Dark Sun starter set. WotC have had huge success with starter sets. Everybody have a great day.

Questions: 1) Could spelljammer ships visit the dark sun world? 2) Also is Master Blaster considered multi-class?

A bit late for the party, but what the heck! The best (and quickest) way I found to describe the Dark Sun setting was "Mad Max meets Conan the Barbarian" ⚔️

YEEEEEEAAAAHHH ATHAS! DARKSUN IS SO UCKING METAL

i've had this though on the back burner forever now, but when it comes to psyonics or rolling for character creation in general, why dont people "trade" their rolls with each other? lets say you roll an 18 and your friend rolls really well with psyonics, but you wanted the psyonics and your friend wanted the 18 and is willing to take the 8 that you rolled in exchange. why not allow your players to trade with other players at character creation so that they can specialize in what they want?

I love running "magitech" worlds, using mostly 3.X /Pathfinder/Custom Character rules, and throwing in advanced tech that either comes from a cosmic wayfarer that is really 'advanced tech' and the magitec that would develop from a world that has access to magic and studies the other fundamental laws of nature. When someone starts to study weather magics and control, I give them a description of how modern science currently understands how the sun affects the dearth with in a myriad of ways, and they're learning this as "basic" knowledge, before they can even begin to alter the weather... Warp Drive is similarly based on current understanding of similar principles, except using high electron-volt electromagnetic field generation to describe how the craft is 'sifted' into a higher dimension/ethereal/astral plane and then then can be 'propelled' toward their destination... I draw a _lot_ of inspiration from Starfinder and Spelljammer, Eberron, d20 Modern, and a few other sources, such as the Tippyverse... Though Epic spells and Powers are available, it's incredibly dangerous to try to attain that level of mastery/power as there are those that covet their positions of power and fear they may be deposed, weather that's true or not... I use most "create undead" type spells/effects to be more akin to what we would consider computer programming, that doesn't usually require the binding of a soul. You're using the powers of power of entropy to channel the positive power through a 'sink' that powers your undead... Intelligent undead are a different story, however. Since my games use the Custom Characters Houserule Set, I modify my magic / psionic system _drastically_... There is now no difference between "Arcane", "Divine", and "Psionics". They all work off the same Power Point system/pool. All the Schools and Disciplines are broken up into individual Skills. First, it should be noted, I drastically changed the skill Spellcraft. Spellcraft (Universal) now functions as the "standard" spellcraft did, but now also allows the character to learn individual schools or disciplines, and learn them individually as they choose, allowing a character to choose where they place their experience (the currency used to increase your character in every aspect). A character needs a number of ranks in Spellcraft (Universal) before they can increase any other school or discipline to an equal number of Ranks. The way the rest of Custom characters works, is that your level is determined by your maximum of Base Attack Bonus, Saving Throws, Ability Scores (because they can potentially be increased), Feat "level", every increment of 12 HP purchased*, Special Ability "level" purchased, etc. Think of the system as the Ultimate Gestalt. You can purchase everything, if you're willing to spend the time, money and experience to learn it! Most NPC's in my world are about level 7, and have likely learned at least _some_ Spellraft... and the rest of my world is based around that and the Tippyverse, with everything else about Eberron/Starfinder/Spelljammer/d20 Modern is mostly flavor and equipment! There are communication stones, 'sheeka slates' and innumerable other objects that can be purchased or found! I do allow Savage Species, and races with Level Adjustments, but require they be 'bought off' before the characters can start making any 'purchases' that actually advance their characters...

This kept getting recommend to me. If I remember dark sun being described to me as a gladiator setting . The game caters to fighting , and anyone who is sick of wizards should play it I'm told.

I like the psionics in Dark Sun

What makes the 5e modules hard to follow is that a lot of them were released out of order with the timeline kept vague on purpose. Out of the Abyss happens first because there are events tied to Drizt novels that set it first. Tyrany of Dragons, is 1490. Princes of the Apocalypse, Storm Kings Thunder, and Tomb of Anihlation all happen in 1491. 1492 is when Dragonheist and Dungeon of the mad mage happens. 1493 is when Descent into Avernus happens. I understand there are references to Ryme of the Frostmaiden that tie it to 1489.

My home boy Sean had all of the d&d trading cards it was insanely awesome to look through his binders of them and talk dnd

The thumbnail for this one really got me good.

If you want settings with great metaplots, look at Savage Worlds, and specifically Deadlands. The metaplot backstory starts in the middle-ages, which is supposed to be explored in the upcoming Deadlands: Dark Ages setting, really comes to life in Deadlands: The Weird West, continues into the 1920's with Deadlands: Noir, shows what happens if the evil powers win with Deadlands: Hell on Earth, and has a futuristic setting on another world connected with a character of the Weird West in Deadlands: Lost Colony. It's brilliant.

In the campaign setting I run, Dance of the Nine, one of the nine worlds is heavily modeled on Athas. I didn't realize the history of the publication with them being forced to put all the fantasy races back in, but I don't have that restriction. Mine is where Goliaths are dominant, with some Firbolg subpopulations and maybe a few others, dominated by Giants of all flavors. I haven't had a chance to flesh it out as much as I would like, but it is a good time.

Back in '94, I was going to play Darksun but never got around to it. I was really looking forward to playing a Freewilled Undead.

Fun fact: All of the humanoid races (elves, dwarves, humans, etc) are descendants of Halflings in Dark Sun.

I think my biggest gribe with 5th edition and a possible Dark Sun conversion will be creature stat bonus and the lack of negatives. How can you possibly justify a Halfling that cen be as strong as 12 feet tall half-Giant f.ex.

the one time i got creative with spell inscription was with scrolls for a character in an end of the stone age era setting she would carve arcane runes onto segments of antler and wear a belt of them on a rawhide string

An engaging exotic setting such as Dark Sun can lead to every character and every story being more interesting and more memorable.

Mork Borg is a setting I'd love to hear their takes on since they like this and Warhammer

The halflings mostly are tribal south America style canables

Thri-Kreen Psionicist/Fighter from original Dark Sun campaign, here! WOOT!

Would “create food and water” work in dark sun or would you not allow it?

It's funny with the Mad Max reference because I played a lot of Dark Sun in the 2nd edition. A half-giant, which in my opinion was the best version of that race so far or since. But also in our group was a halfling and we took the Master Blaster approach. He would perch on my shoulder and sling stones at enemies while my half-giant smashed things. Fun times. And to answer your question about those little monsters haha to a halfling there, anything not them they can kill is meat. Very tribal, so eating a rival tribe could be a thing that happens. With all their poison use there is not much they won't be able to eat.

Yes! Thank you for doing this awesome topic. Been waiting for it!

Nice talk and I do agree that Brom was integral to Dark Sun. While not to the same degree, Tony DiTerlizzi was important to my view of Planescape.

I'm running a homebrew Dark Sun campaign and I just threw out the metaplot and made everything after inspiration for what we do in the campaign

I'm a simple man: see Dark Sun = click. My 2e fav setting, by far

Loved the trip down memory lane. Were y'all tracking that Dark Sun already had bad ass war machines, long before Avernus? The Dragon Kings supplement had them, and as a young dude who had no idea what Battle System was, I could only be tantalized by their potential.

If you'll indulge me, my idea for the Sorcerer: As they said, unlike all other arcane casters, you can drain from people or animals. This becomes it's own ability (takes an action) or possibly can do it while casting a spell (not sure what would be better). The draining gains 1 sorcery point/HP drained up to your max SP. This is the ONLY way to get SP (you don't start with any and cannot convert slots -> SP) and they are lost with a long rest. The SP otherwise function as normal to get extra spell slots or power Meta Magic. When using Drain, FIRST the amount of desired power is chosen. SECOND, the target is selected RANDOMLY from all eligible creatures in a 20' radius be they friend, foe, or the caster themselves (magic is a fickle beast). The target then takes the 1 Necrotic dam/SP drained with no save or reduction possible. This creates a cost/benefit game for the Sorcerer. If he tries to drain a lot of power, him or his ally may be the target and get hurt/killed. On the other hand maybe the enemy with eat the drain. Or I go for less points to play it safe. Anyway, that's my idea. Feels balanced yet captures the flavour of draining magic from people.

If 5e ever did port over thri-kreen, I'm morbidly curious as to how they'll portray their relationship with arcane magic. In 2e, it was mechanically impossible for a thri-kreen to use arcane magic due to how divinely connected they were to nature. In 3.5, they were technically capable of arcane magic, but their penalties to intelligence and charisma made it harder for them to advance in it. I'm hoping they don't just retcon it completely by letting them use arcane magic uninhibited.

I enjoyed the Undead carapace of a Beetle as a caravan vehicle. There were also rules and spell listed for turning yourself in to the Dragons of Darksun, one Light and one dark. Also, I might be wrong, but the original box set said the the half dwarf half human were supposed to be pronounced "Mule". A work species, like the horse/donkey making a Mule.

My favorite man eating halflings

The first thing I thought of with Defiling magic updated to 5e would be a sacrifice of HitDie per spell slot level. That could be interesting

For associated art, it was Planescape and deTerlizzi

Imagine: a sorcerer with dozens of slaves chained to him. Every time he casts a spell, he puts a hand on a first available head and drains all the life force from them, leaving an empty withered husk of a body behind.

Love love love love Dark Sun! My friends and I campaigned for years in an AD&D medieval/viking homebrew until Lv20+ and things got boring. No real threat. We were basically heavily magic shielded turtles with fearsome +5 weapons 'sigh'. We retired our heroes, started up a Lv1 evil party which was a blast, but it followed the logical conclusion of Us vs. a Lawful Society... Then along came Dark Sun! I read the Prism Pentad *MUST READ* and I can play in this unrelenting savagery!!! Sign me up! Oppressive society, brutal encounters, scarce resources and the idea of heavily armored and magical as a detriment to your PC made for some memorable games. Just don't get too attached to one character. BRUTAL!

I use the Thri-Kreen from Darksun in my Gamma World/Star Frontiers mashup campaign

Jim looks like Elwood Blues when he is wearing sun glasses, with all the swag

i love dark sun! thanks for covering it!

My problem with 5e, is that WotC would ruin darksun by not having a good psionics system

Literally just started a campaign in Dark Sun.

Interested to see what Web Dm take on Primeval Thule setting when compared to Dark Sun. as both setting take tone Betts from pulp fiction

Just want to let you know that you guys have inspired me to combine dark sun with the infernal war machines. My idea is that Borys the dragon gained the ability to breathe a crystal (called hellstone) that powers the war machines.

Those shades make Jim look like he's on a mission from god, and I'm here for that.

On the other hand, I did have to roll a character for 3E by myself, so I recorded it... and I rolled 18 17 17 16 15 and I think 9. I was like "How the fuck am I going to bring this and not look like I cheated, even with a video recording?"

A point: Yes, absolutely, you could start with higher than 20s in Dark Sun. 20 str, halfgiant = 24 str. Yeah.

In the original AD&D boxed set every PC is a wild talent

My favorite setting.

Sun Dark must have changed a lot since it started. Animal life energy was only taken by magic using an obsidian sphere as a focus. Covert magic was possible and used often in the novels.

Hah, I JUST finished your Dark Sun podcast on my archive binge of your Patreon

My favorite part of Athas. Rangers become damn life savers if your DM is actually playing the setting right and not as dusty dry faerun.

Personally when I ran a 5e Darksun game I made defiling much much better. Basically defiling gave you sorcery points that you could either use for metamagic, more spell slots, or boost the spell level. Also it boosted the level of the spell by 1.

I love this setting