The Live sound check has always been my favorite method, and in my experience is (exactly as you said) the most effective method to get the band comfortable and ready for the show.
I read an interview with Big Mick a long time ago where he mentioned that he always gets the vocals right first and leaves them on while he checks everything else. That lit a lightbulb for me, and I always do that now when I am dialing up a mix. Really helps me get to the final product faster.
Big makes a great engineer and a cool guy as well. And yes the techniques used by someone who constantly gets great mixes are definitely something to pay attention to
Also, You don't need artists to get vocal mics at least kinda right in the monitors. If the vocalist walks up and can hear them self right away, your good vibes start flowing that much quicker.
Very good info, I always explain to my band members that they have to keep playing something for sound check and not just do like 5-10 seconds. As someone interested in mixing I sometimes wish I could replace musicians with prerecorded stems :D
Hmmm, I don't think I have any videos of me doing a sound check and haven't really been interested in mixing anymore. There may be a time when I take on mixing another band. The only thing that sounds interesting to me to mix would be like a bluegrass band and a field for the bunch of cool homemade instruments
Hi Dave I would love to hear you do sound for my small wedding band, EV ETX pa and AH qu mixer, or any small band similar. If you go to a wedding yourself and you hear the band with maybe not the best sound are you itching to go up and tweak it right 😅
Hmmm, I used to want to jump in and fix all the stuff. But now I'm more observational and tend to let things be as they are and don't feel the urge to be the hero. Except if it's catastrophic and an intervention is important and necessary in some way. I let nature take its path even if the path may be less than optimal in my opinion but if I see a bird caught in fishing line, I will try and free it.
Dave, LOVE and appreciate all you do for us sound humans! Just did a wedding gig last night - literally no time for a check, band showed up right before show time, just "Here's the band, deal with it!" I think we've all done that gig before; my advice is: come prepared! Have some sort of scene ready to go, and do your homework!
We call that Tentoninus: the band shows up at ten to nine!😂 I check similarly. I’ll go online and watch their videos if I have no stage plot or input list. Get an idea what they do, sound like, input list. Either modify an existing mix file (digital) and pull all the faders and monitor sends and tell them to start playing. Processing and labeling is already done. I push faders. Or in monitors, I ring out the vocals before they get there so it’s clean, no feedback or overtones. They walk up to the mic and say “tgat sounds amazing. Can I have a little of the other vocals?” Then play a song. Start jamming. I push faders up and quickly build a mix with most right around minus 5. Adjusting input gains at the same time. Boom. Add in the pre arranged vocal delay slap and drum verb. Then fix any issues. Done in 2 songs. Really in one, but fine tuned in 2. No beating on drums one at a time and driving the audience out of the bar. We don’t get sound checks at festivals so it’s in a cue wedge or phones while Mr monitor goes through that process on stage. I listen to him Speak requests to the band and then I know who’s gonna play what. Dial input gain. Unmute and go. Sounds like a record everytime!
@@MrRioting Yeah, when we get no info, we have to turn to the net to get some sort of sense of what to expect. Horns? Lots of Keys? 10 vocals? Two drummers? We can handle ANYTHING, just let us be prepared!
Super cool and yeah we kind of spend our lives drooling over getting sound checks and when I finally had all the sound checks I wanted, I realized it's better to sound check more like the way I did when I was in a rush and didn't have any time. More informative, faster easier and less stress with a better outcome
Very interesting, thanks Dave. We have a soundcheck song that has a little bit of everything, and it's always worked better than just waiting while someone goes around the kit. Plus it's handy for those times when you have to hit the ground running.
When I soundcheck I always start with the drums. Kick, snare, hihat, toms, then the overheads during the drum total. The reason I work this way is because I always mix in the same venue with a capacity of 110 people. Snare, hi hat and cymbals are usually loud enough to not need any PA, so I try to mix to the loudest acoustic instrument, add some kick and toms to the mix and bring the rest up to that level. This also means that I let the git amps do 70% of the work, and add the rest with PA. When the band does a few songs I will try to perfect the mix and level the monitors, which I usually do by adding a bit, the walk around on stage to listen on the places where the musicians will be. When I mix at an outdoor festival ( which is not often, but sometimes) I do things a little different, but I generally fall back on what I'm comfortable with, though I try to always experiment to get the best possible mix for both audience and band.
I like it. I will typically do a line check before the band shows up just to make sure things are working and I have a signal. When the band shows up, I do just as you describe, having them jump right in to rehearsal and doing my thing while they do theirs.
I think a lot of sound humans get into the flow of one mic, one source because it's the undisputed speed champ for the kind of sweaty dive bar gigs most of us have started with, where you're running FOH and Mons at the same time and have barely ten minutes to work with because the band was late and and and.... Frustratingly I've found that the bigger shows I've mixed have been exponentially easier than the crap underpaid slogging I've started. Pro bands show up on time with gear they know, and pro musicians know what they need in their monitors to perform. Having an A2 or even a dedicated monitor master makes mixing a breeze compared to sprinting all over the stage yourself. It's very difficult to drop habits formed in the heat of battle, despite the mindsets from "combat audio" not often carrying over to "big boy gigs". It's always helpful to examine one's biases and habits to try to keep what's useful and drop what's not. Another great video, thanks Dave!
Thank you and I also believe the one mic one channel thing comes from the studio habits. Where cross-bleed between various instruments tends not to be an issue because they're recording in ISO booths jor only one instrument at a time. The baseline for a sound checking line check for live shows should be completely different than that for the studio. If you have unlimited amounts of time then of course listen to one mie one instrument will provide some information. But the one mic multiple instruments and multiple mics one instrument scenarios are truly where we get the most valuable info
Amen! Play a song. The best way in my humble opinion. Just finished up a blue's festival this weekend. Never heard any of the bands and mixed everything from FOH and did the stage transitions. After over 50 years in the bizz I pulled it off with God's grace. You just need to know your gear and treat the players with respect and ask for patience! ❤
The people part is everything in my opinion, you need that band to trust you. A brief explanation to the band on what your strategy is, and how you go about things helps too.
Dave, I am a drummer and I play in a Tool cover band here in Ventura. With this type of material, I find the monitor mix needs to be better than what I typically get for less challenging material. Usually it is not. Larger venues with a dedicated monitor board/engineer are great and the performances have been workmanlike. Small clubs are the issue. I studied Dave Weckl and his use of small format digital boards for his live performances. I have proposed to the band the utilization of a small digital board for monitoring and running our own mics to the guitar and bass cabs, kick (kelly shu internal) and 1 just behind my right shoulder (Glen Johns method) to capture the rest of the kit (super cardio Beta 56). FOH feeds our monitor board vocals and muti-pad percussion/samples.I have a kit that is substantial and time can be challenging in these situations. The bass player wants to utilize splitters for all of the House mics (gtr/bass/vocals) vs using our own mics. What are your thoughts on something like this? And thank you for taking the time to educate myself and the thousands who share in interest in progressing things. I have spoke with a few engineers who have worked with you over the years and hold you in the highest regards.
Tool cover band in Ventura! What's the name of the band maybe I'll come check ya out and say hi. Whatever you can do to get things consistent so that you all are happy on stage and can hear what you're doing is the right way to do it.
Ultimately, the goal is to be able to eq/compress/limit each channel as needed. Historically, I have used a small format board and headphones with about 20 Db cut/double gel cups with the 2 mic setup I previously mentioned (Glen Johns method). FOH usually feeds me the gtr/bass/vocals/multi-pad perc. Cymbal bleed causes problems with guitar frequencies and bass is usually lost when I am on the floor toms.
Sounds like you guys have a good grasp on dialing things in and you're going to need to find a method that fits to what you need. Figuring out a way to have the sound consistent and taking full control of it yourselves and just feeding something to whatever venue you're playing is probably going to be the way to go
I tend to do a quick line check with a general EQ of the various elements and then do the live with all mics and instruments to do a full check. Doing the quick line check helps me identify any bad patching or bad lines. However, I do prefer to do all mics/instruments as you described in the last portion of the video.
Normally at festivals, we don’t have time for sound checks. It’s just a line check and set monitor levels. The key to this is getting the gain settings right. Then you can look at the faders and set them up visually, based on experience. You can always start with things like guitar and bass a bit lower in the mix as they make their own noise as well. I have found that 99% of the time it will sound good right from the first song. Then you can spend a bit of time tweaking it to optimum.
The Vocals Up sound check: All faders down except vocals. Balance, headroom and gain before feedback. Done. The band doesn’t care about anything else. If they did, they wouldn’t have been late.
When I've had extra time for sound check, one thing I've done prior to these combos is mute and unmute across the board to check what's bleeding where. Sometimes this info can be great when it comes to carving out useless masking and buildup. One example would be with a vocalist who prefers their wedge to be as hot as possible. In this case, certain frequencies can be rung out of their wedgie, but, especially indoors, that vocal can also be shaped a bit with the other mics it's bleeding into from the wedge. Food for thought ✌️
Awesome! I needed this just now. I have been mixing an awesome Plautdiesche band all week. And I really did not want to waste their time doing a sound check every single night. They are comfortable on stage by now and no one else is playing on this stage or system. So I was wondering to myself what the benefit would be to do another sound check tonight.
as someone who does more Club mixing than shows, we don't get sound checks just live mixing we have one or maybe two songs to set the mix to 95% there and small tweaks from there.
Yeah I've had to do that many times over the years. Getting a good strategy together it allows you to dial up a mix while the band is playing songs is not only fast and useful but also and many situations necessary and a better way to do it
Love this method always will choose everything all at once and I tell them to play a tune or two so I can get the feel of the show Also it helps to have the PA mix as fast as you can also so you could have a proper monitor level Most of the time they would want more in the floor monitors since they hear the reflective sound of the main PA as you push it I only check one by one if I hear a specific problem or resonance freq But I mute everything else real quick yo hear it alone in the PA as everything else keeps playing I never make them stop and go one by one
This is also key at small venues but I actually start with getting the vocal mic in the monitors and FOH. It avoids the volume creep on stage and gets the band to playing songs quickly because they can actually hear the vocal. Avoiding the one mic, one instrument thing also stops the band from getting bored waiting around. If I have time I'll tell the band to get a beer and I'll do a line check by myself with an iPad and get the monitors roughly right before the band steps on stage to practice songs
I never want to bother the band with individual mics and setting the levels. Get the band playing as soon as possible, give them what they need in the monitors so they can crack on and then work on the levels/EQ/balance in parallel to the band rehearsing and getting comfortable. Win-win. Besides, who wants to sit in silence whilst you check and gain each instrument separately?
@@DaveRat another part of this thread is the value of getting levels and tones when the talent is just feeling it and playing. Better playing and true tone comes out when they aren’t focused on anything but a groove. This is really true of non-seasoned players and vocalists warming up and finding a part. No way the pre gain is right if you are holding the mic away hunting for your part. Lol Oh yeah. In the festival situation, playing a groove can be entertaining to patrons instead the annoying tom 1, now tom 2 thing.
I think it depends on what level you are at. 45-60 minute soundcheck is a luxury at the club level. Usually it is a 15-20 minute changeover and you line check/festival check in that time along with getting the previous band off stage. Being on both sides as an artist and a single engineer (FOH and Monitors) I much prefer 1 instrument, 1 mic. As an artist I know exactly what I need in the monitor. So as we go through I can specify quickly if I want that in my monitor or not. Everyone together turns into us basically immediately stopping and asking for changes to the monitors. And in the engineer side I have 4-5 people telling me what they want across all instruments and just turns into a mess. Versus per instrument I can ask or they can point up or down as we go. Can get them going in 5 minutes. Then I dial in their FOH within the first half of the song. But it is a template through the night as long as I get the preamp gain right. Also even just my gig tonight, I got guitar modelers with one band coming in super hot and soft drummer. Next is a heavy handed drummer and a mic’d amp. Or every bass amp DI has drastically different levels . All together I’m going to be clipping and fixing gain structure and chasing monitors all at the same time. What a mess. One at a time I can set my gain, do some 2 second EQ moves and move on. Much more calm and focused. And over the years I can get close enough in solo what will fit the mix. But it is boring, no doubt. I just work fast.
Yeah the one mic one instrument adventure is definitely more linear and organized. It just doesn't give you a lot of the information. And if your goal is to have the very first note of the very first song when the band comes on stage to be dead on, which is my goal when I mix, The one mic one instrument adventure does not give me enough info to accomplish that consistently
I think also hearing just a kick through the PA gives you an idea of the system you are working with and you kind of learn to compensate for that automatically and quickly over time. You can analyze so much information from one kick drum hit once!
Agreed. And the reverse is true as well. Engineers that do a quick tap through line check after set change before their band goes on and lets the audience hear the instruments through the PA is a huge bummer. It's like telling the audience the ending of a book before they start reading. I do pa silence, I never ever let the audience hear any of sound from the bands I mix until the show starts
Love you Dave! But the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard you say; "maybe the FOH guy comes up on stage and helps the monitor guy get everything going". Hahahahahaha.
Ha! Yeah, that's not the norm. Though it is for me. I always have a shitty show on the monitors suck on the band bummed out. There was a period of time while mixing FOH for chili peppers and they were going through monitor engineers so fast that I actually had four in ear belt packs at front of house and a set of in ears, and during the show I would listen to monitor mixes and clear com to whoever is doing monitors to make adjustments.
I like to start my drum check with the overheads. They're picking up the whole kit if I like it or not. Then I add the close mics to the OH sound I can't avoid. I'm the same way about building the sound with the band playing. In a studio, you might be able to get each instrument on it's own but for live sound you blend what all of the mics are hearing.
Also worth noting is that only the most seasoned and professional musicians ever soundcheck alone the same way that they play during performance. Vocalists are the worst for this. I only sound check an instrument at a time if there is no other alternative and if I do, I ask the musician to play their quietest and their most aggressive parts to try to get a range and to get a baseline setting for the comp(s). But nothing beats just having the group play and then doing only the single instrument checks that you need after. Also worth noting is that musicians using in-ears must be aware of your process and expect their mix to change during soundcheck as you refine gain structure. Also, be very conservative with initial gain settings - if you are working with performers for the first time, always start at zero. I have had many close calls where I got overconfident and ended up blasting a musician's in ear mix. You can do serious damage - the best policy is to always start at minimum gain - there is no way to make an accurate guess for initial gain. I just thought - I've never tried this - get the performers to do their first song or two with no in ears and crank the PA. You then get the performers playing to what they hear in the room and perhaps being less careful and you also get a sense of overall PA headroom. Obviously Dave is the pro, but these are a few things that I have learned (and continue to learn) in my time doing strictly amateur live sound.
For me regardless of the band popularity or venue size, if I can get the band on stage, having them just play songs in rehearse is the most valuable info I get for mixing the show. If I have time I'll have the techs go through stuff and fine tune and look for issues beforehand but the techs never play the instrument the same as the musicians and the sounds are never correct. I've been hired over the years to bring bands from clubs to arenas like the offspring and blink-182. I've been hired for bands that have challenges with stage volume and strong personalities like Soundgarden and rage against the machine. And I've mixed fans for many years like chili peppers that are extremely temperamental and sensitive to everything. My goal always is to have the very first note of the very first song of the show be dead on. Have a band come up strong and mixed well right off the bat. None of this dial the mix in during the first few songs crap. What makes or breaks a show is Goosebumps for everyone when that band hits the stage. And the best tool for me to achieve that is going to mix up while the full band is playing and getting as much time with that as possible. But even without that I have strategies that I used to triangulate and get the mixtiles even if I don't get a sound check or any sound to the PA whatsoever
The only reason to spend a lot of time on the kick drum sound by itself is if you're expecting a kick drum solo during the show. Much better to get everything together and in context. That last scenario is the best approach, though it does take some experience to pull off.
Hi Dave, great perspective and clarity to what we all do on a daily basis. Thank you for sharing, I have a question that what would you change if one were to mix monitor from FOH?
Not really. When I did mons from FOH, as 8 normally do I get the stage wired and try and make sure all the mics work. Before hand I tell the band my method You all go on stage an jam, play, whatever. Will dial things in while you jam. I then wonder the stage and chat or hand signal each band member and dial up the mons. Then when they are settled, I move to FOH EQ and mix I give them a full run down of my methods before they start. And it's all relaxed. If there is an issue feel free to stop and we can fix. If ya need something let me know. And at some point I may ask for things like to add loads of toms to a song or check backing vocals or other instruments.
dave your channel is so good, thank you for your time. i have a tiny PA built for DJ's but occasionally have to run sound for bluegrass guys; my question is how to work with people that cant maintain a constant distance from the mic and use that as their "sound".
That's a roough one. You can either take the perspective of if you want to be heard get close to the mic. One thing you can do is make a recording of the mic they're singing into and play it back for them so they can hear the balance between their vocal and background music that they are presenting. But this could easily piss them off if you're not good with your presentation and establish a good repertoire.
I mix at horsedrawn festivals , three days , up to 18 bands , no sound check twenty minute changeover if poss , I know the desk and the pa backwards and the sound is mostly already there , the odd problem but fairly easy :-) get the monitor sound right first as it relaxes the band then front of house
I like to do one mic at a time only to set my input gain, and rough in some monitor levels, but after that I like to get the whole band playing as soon in the process as possible.
My experience is that when testing one mic, the gain iss often not correct as the tech or musician play the actual songs harder or softer than when mic checking
@@DaveRat Yes, but when you're sharing stage boxes and therefore preamps between FOH and monitors, as I usually do because I work at a fairly small venue, it is very helpful to get a ballpark gain setting right off the bat. If I were using an analogue split and monitor world was not affected by FOH gain adjustments then I would probably just get the whole band going right away.
Absolutely, hitting a drum once or twice and setting a ballpark gain or typically for me, The various musicians will test their amps and drums to make sure their rigs work and when they're doing that I grab a gain level, that doesn't require me to put the instrument through the PA
It's all about information. One mic at a time offers very limited info. Since every mic hears everything on stage always, at some level, checking with all the mics live allows you to hear how an instrument bleeds into all the mics and adjust for the actual sound that will occur during the show. Since every instrument bleeds into every mic, having all the instruments making sound allows you to hear how the instruments sound when bleeding into all the mics.. Setting you EQ fwith only one mic on to get certain sound and then having that sound change when all the mics are on and all the instruments are playing means you are doing everything 2 or 3 times instead of just going straight to the solution
Nothing is perfect. At the board and the board mix might be ideal but the venue might have places where anything is going to sound terrible, to the detriment of the ticket holder. That's just part of going to a live show. Don't blame the engineer OR the venue. Enjoy the experience. The performer(s) will be there to be involved with the audience on a performance. The ticket holder will be part of that unique event. I love live music.
I watch one venue's live channel and the sound engineer has a house kit on the stage and everyone just brings their snare; there's almost no drum sound check needed between bands and I've never seen it break down. Maybe that's more common some places, but I've never seen it before and it's pretty cool that all the bands just accept the house kit and roll with it. I mean, it is set up well, the kit itself and the audio for it.
Yes. It's all about information. One Mic one instrument gives you a very limited amount of information. You are denied the information of how all the other microphones are reacting to that instrument and you are denied all the information of how all the other instruments affect that microphone. When you don't have all the info then you can't make the best decisions. So whatever method or pattern you use, understanding that every instrument that has volume on stage bleeds into every microphone on stage and every microphone picks up every instrument on stage. And all the stage volumes create resonances and rattles that impact everything else, is important. Everything is interactive so to isolate and just check single solitary instruments and single solitary microphones denies you the ability to understand those interactions
I'm Victor...aspiring FOH engr.. Following your steps.. I would love to understand the Vortex Sub set up more and love to work with you some day.. Thanks always@@DaveRat
Great to meet you Victor. I go into a lot more depth on the member side of the channel. It's only $5 a month and you could join binge all the subwoofer videos and then cancel and I think they'll even give your money back if you telling me didn't like it. But that's the easiest way to get the info because it won't let me really share the videos on the member side to non-members. Also in the member side there's a link to the Telegram channel where all the RU-vid channel members can join and we discuss various topics there so it's probably the best place to chat with me
Awesome I'm looking forward to meeting you yeah we share all kinds of other information and people post stuff they're working on and there's a bunch of cool people that are helpful on the Telegram channel. And a whole bunch more videos as well Including posts of 76 zoom checks that are an hour to 2 hours long before I discuss all kinds of topics
In small-ish rooms, one thing i always did with the mics on stage was to hear of any resonance in the actual stands themselves. With the mics set to show levels, id just tap the boom arms or any part of the stand and bingo. It could be solved by simply adjusting the length or the hight of the stand. Have you come across that too?
Yes Mike stand resonance is an issue that needs to be dealt with in some or many situations. I've gone so far as to make internal deadening for vocal mic stands. In fact I did it on the most recent Pearl Jam tour for Eddie's mic stand
Perhaps you could have Yi Hsuan “ Kate” Lee, who I saw in FOH magazine show her sound check. I read she learned from your staff, if I recall? You’re the best❤
@@DaveRat I loved the article. As I’ve stated, I’m a semi retired touring drummer/ singer, but always had equipment, and to this day try and keep up with what’s going on. My late father bought my brother and I a pa and lights in 1980. It was awesome. If I recall, it was EV horn loaded 2 way tops with a 15”, and single 18” w bins , maybe bagend copies on bottom. I recall a few cs-800 amps, perhaps a microtechnology amp, and a Peavey mixer , 16x 2? It’s been a while. I loved KISS, so my brother and I made flash pods with fff gun powder, nicrome wire from electronics class, and they’d go proof and a big blast of smoke, like kiss alive 1. I miss the 80’s . Sorry long winded
The '80s were a blast and didn't sound that good but we didn't know better then. I never doing sounds at a local punk clubs, hair metal bands, 18 piece big band and Sundays with a 60 piece orchestra. Those are the early '80s for me
Even at the large venues that you are used to Dave, what I call "wrap around" of the bass (lower frequencies) content from the FOH onto the stage is still there. You didn't mention how the monitor engineer works around this while you are balancing the FOH?
Low frequency issues from the PA or subs into stage are related to sound system design and configuration. Though they can and do impact the band, it is not specifically a sound check related issue. But rather, it is an issue that can and should be addressed prior to sound check during system setup or tuning. Sound check/line check is where we adjust and align the the mic instrument combinations to the sound system/venue combination. I try and separate the tuning the sound system/room combination as a separate but admittanly often overlapping adventure. Viewing the adventures as separate, it helps clarify the ideal or desired workflows
@@DaveRat Yes for most people this is not in their talents to understand the systems they use let alone design it out. A minority will understand nor use sub steering techniques to held the stage. I forget sometimes the "average" persons depth. Cheers from Canada
Could you share strategy on how I could approach that subject with a sound tech, as a musician? I don't want to sound like I'm trying to teach him how to do his job
Oooh, That's a great question. Sound people and possibly humans in general can be very territorial about their skill set. Where you at and what's your name? Great to meet you. Maybe just telling you we're watching this video ask him for her what their opinion is of it.
Depends if the drum sets there or not. If the drum sets there and there's someone to jam on it with the other guys or gals all good. If not and as always grab what you can with what you got. How do your guitar and bass playing together is more useful than just having a guitar or bass by itself. And of course tail it to the musician personalities because they're happiness and comfort level is important
Thanks for the response. Those are good points, if everyone is happy but the one running behind, it's harder for them as a whole to be upset at anything. Thanks for these in the weeds type videos.
@@DaveRat Dave, I wish I had a mentor like you. Passing knowledge is a skill of its own. Not anybody can do it, and you do it in a way that makes us want to do our best. If I don’t have to support my family nowadays , I’d embark on a pilgrimage to ask you to be my master.
Thank you that's a huge compliment and one of the inspirations of doing this is to offer what I wish the people it offered me when I first got into this and I'm always learning and learn more by sharing as well
The live soundcheck may be better, but it never works for me. I’m not that good. My band resonates the G note. Until I started doing virtual Soundcheck, I had relentless feedback that I could never find because everything was happening at the same time. This never works for me. I know other can succeed at this, but it’s not the best way for me.
The sound guy who insists the band needs to be low volume, then he cranks FOH to earbleed, is the worst. I’ve encountered more of them than I can count. So when it came time for me to do sound, I did the opposite. Got the bands happy with their stage mix. Then I used FOH to fill in the gaps, as it were, in rolling that out to the audience.
That's all well and good but in my country bands don't like to sound check and expect to sound great. Country is Trinidad in the Caribbean. Engineers in this chat can attest
I had a strategy for getting good sound without sound checking as well. At some point I'll find that video and update it and re-release it. Basically I triangulate sounds by using multiple reference points. I also have a related strategy for silently sound checking orchestras in headphones, and having the sound come up pretty darn good without ever putting a single instrument through the sound system until they start
Hmmm, I used to do sound for them, I was their first hired sound guy back in the late 80s. I used to build efx setups for perry and cases for Perkins . Watch vids of Perry singing. He holds the mic about a foot from his mouth and then moves it a full arms length at times Very challenging to get vocals above stage sound. Though I don't know the rift between him and Dave, it could be stage volume issues, could be length of guitar solo issue, or could be old demons coming back But what I can say is Janes in the 80s was unbelievably good. Some of the most intense and magical shows I've ever seen.
My overall goal as a sound engineer was to have the very first note of the very first song come up awesome and impactful. I want the band to hit the stage with excellent sound every time. Doesn't matter if I'm the headliner or the opening act in a club or an arena that first song should come out with a bang and I do everything in my power to make that happen. In my opinion that sets the tone that grabs everyone's attention and that can make or break a gig or band. I have mixed and worked with numerous bands on their journey from being club bands to arena bands including the offspring, blink-182, Pearl Jam and chili peppers. The concept of fix it in the first song is not part of my adventure
Of course I was mostly kidding, but honestly most of my experience is situations where I’m lucky if I even get to talk to the band before their set time. Sometimes I know them or have at least seen them before, but very often all I have to guide my prep is a rather vague bio blurb that gives me some vague idea of how many members they have and maybe what they play, but then that sometimes changes between when it got printed and the show. Luckily it’s often smaller venues where I’m basically only there because the vocalist can’t be bothered to bring their own amplifier like the rest of the band. I actually take some pride in the fact that most of the time I can have them sounding pretty good basically right away, and converge on something really good within basically a few minutes. To what I think was your real point, when I do have the luxury of soundcheck, I think I’m agreeing with you that it’s better to have the whole band actually playing rather than fiddling around with like “ok, kick…ok, snare…” It doesn’t much matter what any of those things sound like on their own. Also yes bleed is real and really should be accounted for right from the start. And yes I do think it helps the performers too for all the reasons you mentioned.
