I completely agree. I thought this film, though worth watching, was uneven and flawed. But THIS is big-time acting. Just superb. And yes….Shakespearean.
"Positively Shakespearean"? He was quite LITERALLY Shakespearean, 12 years as an associate with the Royal Shakespeare Company after graduating from the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. A true master, whose incredible voice still managed to understate his warm wisdom.
First time I saw him was a small role in The Duelists as a quite frightening fencing master. I've loved him since then and he nailed this role utterly.
I absolutely LOVE this film. The Extended Edition is a masterpiece. A few things were left out. And I'm not always a huge fan of Martin Sheen, but his portrayal of Robert E Lee, perfection.
Not always a fan? Not all his movies are good, but he is one of the all time great talents. See the Execution of Private Slovik. Unsurpassable. And Badlands. Everything he did throughout the 70s was masterful, all of the small and big TV roles and all the small and big film roles.
Daniel R probably for political reasons. Sheen is a diehard liberal, and not all of us agree with his beliefs. I’m sure this persons loves his acting, but not his political position.
Political beliefs? Geez! Some of my favorite actors conservative views i deplore. Love their movies and their acting. A Muslim heart doctor saved my life. If my house is burning down the fireman can all be trump supporters for all I care. If I see an elderly person fall down I will help them up regardless of economic policies. I have found at cookouts that the political beliefs of the one doing the steaks makes no difference to me as I like my steak medium rare..yummy! I have wore out the DVD to this movie. Longstreet though is my favorite. Just sayin.
Gotta add Lee's response afterwards. I think that's what turns this from a great scene into a powerful scene. "No Sir. That won't be necessary. You will be of great service. And I do thank you."
I totally agree with you. The key to that entire scene wasn't General Trimble's fury, although that actor was fantastic. It was General Lee's calm, the way he instantly saw Trimble's demeanor and let him vent, the way he praised the general at the end and gave him hope. The biography I read about Lee described him in very similar terms, close enough that it may have been used to write the script. This scene is one of my favorites, perhaps second only to Lee rebuking Jeb Stuart and then propping him back up again.
Trimble instinctively knew that attacking then was what was required. Really good commanders sense when the enemy is reeling and know THAT is the time to push.
@@Rockhound6165 One of my favorite episodes. he played Mr. Drake, head of the Empire Club. I am a member of a shooting club and when I go I always quote Frasier to the family before I step out the front door; "If anyone needs me...... I'll be at my club.."
The 18th North Carolina Regiment (CSA) may well have done more damage to the Confederate military effort than the entire Union Army of the Potomac could have.
General Jackson definitely wouldn't have stopped. You can just picture him, slumped over in his saddle, "Now you get up there and take that hill General. With the bayonet you run them off that hill to Washington".
@@alabamaal225 Its true, that accident as History records it not only seriously wounded General Jackson which lead to his lost at the moment of his greatest triumph. It also killed several members of his staff. When General Stuart took over on the battlefield and in the dark of night trying to pick up where Jackson had left off, it was chaos. Jackson's staff was scattered, many dead or wounded. The General Himself had been rushed off the field and dropped twice off the liter onto the ground, the 2nd drop, he fell on his wounded arm which reopened the wound and caused bleeding to begin again. This is the only recorded time during the entire wounding accident that Jackson acknowledged pain. He was in no condition to aid Stuart. So Stuart pushed straight ahead, right into the entrenched federal lines. The result was a eventual victory but at too great a cost. The close, brutal, bloody combat cost Lee over 13.000 of his best fighting men, including roughly 60% of his regimental commanders who were wounded or killed. The Army that Lee took to Pennsylvania was a very different army than the one that defeated Hooker at on the Rappahannock. Jackson's intent was to keep flanking them and get behind them forcing them to fight their way back across the river not go straight into their lines in a frontal assault. Had Jackson not been Wounding he would have broke into Hookers rear again the next day and placed his forces between Hooker and the River, Hookers main escape across US Ford would have been blocked and with Lee pushing form the other side Hooker in confusion and in chaos would have most likely surrendered.
General Trimble was an aggressive and highly skilled commander. In my opinion he was one of the most underrated of Confederate generals. He did well at Gettysburg and would have made a fine divisional or corps commander. He certainly would have at least tried to take Cemetery Hill and Culp's Hill. I don't fault Ewell for not taking them, but for not bothering to even try. That's unthinkable. The Union Army was reeling after the first day and more pressure could have forced them from the field. You never give the enemy time to regroup and recover. Ewell then compounded his error by attacking after giving the Union troops precious hours to dig in and prepare for his attack. Ewell was indecisive and it cost the ANV dearly.
No, it wouldn't have. They had a third corp already formed and waiting, upon that line, behind the hill. 1st and 11th regrouped behind them then advanced to their positions later in the battle. Had the CSA advanced, they would've ran into a Union defensive line, and get overwhelmed, and it would've been somewhat of a defeat for the CSA as they get repulsed. The Union had the day because of Buford and the 1st Corp, they delayed long enough for two other corp to arrive. One went to Cemetry Hill as the other 2 had already broke. I believe it was Hancocks Corp that had arrived, and he would've easily dealt with Trimble.
@@SoulKiller7Eternal that's not true. There would have been just enough light to take Culps Hill which was completely unoccupied at that point) and then dig in all night. What's more I corp and XI corp were in horrible shape at that point and were not fit for major combat duty for the rest of the battle. In fact Grant disbanded those corps along with III corp because they were so understrength and cut up after Gettysburg. By the time dawn came on the second day the Union positions on Cemetery Hill and Ridge would have been untenable and they would have had to fall back on troops that had marched all night and not had time to set up defensive positions of any kind. And there simply wasn't defensive terrain suitable on the back side of those hills for the Union Army to occupy. They would have had the unenviable task of trying to dislodge the Confederates from Culps Hill or of the whole army would have had to retreat back from Gettysburg,. As Union reinforcements were coming from more than one direction and converging at Gettysburg that would have possibly resulted in the army being cut up piecemeal. And remember Meade was a cautious commander. It's very likely he would have had the entire army fall back on a defensive line he already had the engineers sketching out along a tributary called Pipe Creek. From there it becomes difficult to say what would have happened. How much chaos the Union Army was thrown into and what Lee would have done to pursue the retreating army is difficult to say. Certainly the moral of the Union Army and the northern states would have been awful and it might have cost Meade his command. Who would have replaced him is an open question of course, but yet another command change at the head of the army would have been a moral killer as well. It's reasonable to assume that the Federals could have overcome all of this as they overcame The Seven Days and Second Bull Run the year before, but it certainly would have prolonged the war and that would have played into the elections in 1864. It also might have given the Confederates enough breathing room in Virginia to send more than just a couple of divisions and Longstreet to Chickamauga. What might Lee have done if he had felt confident enough about the situation in Virginia to go west with all three divisions of Longstreet's Corp? And what might that have done to the timetable for the Atlanta campaign or even the life of the Army of the Cumberland? Without a resounding victory at Chattanooga does Grant come east to assume overall command? Does Sheridan eventually assume command in the Valley campaign of 1864? That's the most fascinating part of what IFs, speculating about the cause and effect of the interchangeable events parts and personalities of history.
If he had driven the Federals out of Gettysburg so what? The AoP would have fallen back to I think it was Pipe Creek, which is where Meade was originally planning on taking his stand anyway.
What I love about this scene is how calm Lee remains as Trimble explains his fustrasions he does not but in or get aggressive he just stays calm and listens thats is what makes him a true commander not to get angry in a situation and maintains his cool
For some reason they didn't show Trimble during the Picket's charge scene. Trimble was wounded so severely during Picket's charge that Lee had to leave him behind to be captured when the Confederate Army retreated back to Virginia. Due to his extensive knowledge of Northern railroads, the Union refused to exchange him, and he remained a POW for the rest of the war. Still he survived his wounds and lived until 1888, passing away at the age of 86.
Brigadier General Issac Trimble was one of my favorite generals to research about the civil war. He was a brilliant general and completely underrated. Oddly enough he took command of Jackson's Corps when he died, but Trimble had been wounded and he didn't command it long. He was part of Lee's staff for a while but his gung ho attitude got him moved. When he served under Ewell he had the foresight to know to take command of cemetery hill after taking culps hill, which would have given them both roundtops. Meade would not have been able to wait for Reynolds reinforcements and would have had to attack with out them, outgunned against and entrenched force. Ewell refused to Give Trimble men to take the hill which led to a famous moment when Trimble basically threw is sword at Ewells feet and rode off (romanticized in the movie Gettysburg). Had Ewell listened the battle would have been a 180 degrees from what it was. The Union would had to assault an entrenched enemy from a fixed position on a high ground and the battle most likely would have been a disaster for the Federals. Instead Ewell gave him Lane/Penders division that was battered already and asked to hold the left flank with Pettigrew's division. When it collapsed Trimbles had too as well and the flank wasn't held, giving Lee the idea to attack the center to collapse it. we know how that ended. He was a very underrated tactician. He told jackson once "this war will end and I will be a Major General or a corpse". He was a Major General when it ended. "General Ewell. Give me one Brigade, and I will take that hill" - Major General Issac Trimble.
I’m a firm believer that had Stonewall Jackson been there, Gettysburg woulda been a completely different battle. Either Jackson and Longstreet talk Lee into taking the fight somewhere else, which is what Longstreet wanted to begin with, or Jackson takes Culps Hill. A lot of small things went wrong for Lee at Gettysburg that ended up costing him big time.
@@swedejohanson7739 I agree. Lee didn't Trust fully Trimble because of his take risk style. He didn't have confidence in anyone but longstreet without Jackson, and Stewart could have made a compelling argument with Harry Burgwyn had he been there and reliable. When Reynolds was killed it would have been the perfect time for Lee to act on a flanking mission with the 26th Carolina troops around the town. Even Buford wouldn't have seen it, and if he did, he would have to commit his cavalry to the engagement and that would allow John B. Gordon, Hood, and Henry Heth's divisions free to move on the town itself. Then Longstreet, Ewell, Trimble, and Pickett could charge the center even with the roundtops controlled by the Federals because there would be no support and the Confederate advance would originate behind them.
@@bad74maverick1 you make some interesting points. I think Lee trusted his Generals, but losing Stonewall was a massive blow and I agree that he probably didn’t have the same confidence in some as he did Jackson. Just my opinion, but I think after the screw up by Ewell at Culps Hill and the fact that Jeb Stuart basically got Lee into a fight on ground he really didn’t wanna fight on( by not doing his job), I think Lee shoulda pulled out of Gettysburg completely and took the fight to better ground. Longstreet argued this, but Lee wouldn’t do it.
A bit of a correction might be in order as to what Trimble actually said to Ewell: "Trimble said, "Give me a good regiment and I will engage to take that hill. " Ewell snapped back, "When I need advice from a junior officer I generally ask for it." " Trimble threw down his sword and said to Ewell he would regret this decision for the rest of his life.
But since the ANV was split into three corps from two, following Jackson's death, A.P. Hill took some of the manpower, along with Ewell, that had been under Jackson. What had been 50-50 split b/t Jax and L'street now was split 40-30-30, L'street, Hill, Ewell. Obviously, fact remains the call on Culp's Hill that day was Ewell's alone.
Absolutely, Its a whole different battle and very likely there would have not even been any combat at Gettysburg at all had General Jackson been in this campaign. For starters. Stonewall would have already captured Harrisburg or ravaged Pennsylvania before Meade's Army even got out of Maryland. Jackson moved swiftly and when he fought he fought with the intention of not merely defeating the enemy but destroying them. He was the only Southern Commander who understood how to defeat the much larger Union army.
@@simrhsimrh4948 It did not, if Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, we would be calling it Jackson's Charge, and not Pickett's. And, imagine Jackson, in the trench warfare of Petersburg, or the defensive grind of the Overland campaign. Jackson was bound to fail at one point, overly aggressive generals and an attritional war do not go together.
Four things to note about this scene: 1 - General Ewell, as corps commander, had no obligation to explain himself to General Trimble. Nor did Ewell feel obliged to tell Trimble about his own two scouting parties. 2 - One of Ewell's scouting parties advanced to Culp's Hill and, finding no one defending it, headed up the hill. They walked into an ambush and were sent reeling down the hill with casualties to inform Ewell that the Hill was defended. 3 - The other scouting party came back and announced that fresh federal forces were seen advancing up the York Road toward Gettysburg. This would have put them in the rear of any confederate force attacking Culps' Hill. Ewell didn't know that the scouts had mid-identified the road the federal troops (Union XII corps) were on. They were actually on the Hannover Road, which runs east and then southeast from Gettysburg. They eventually advanced on the far side of Culp's Hill. Ewell scraped together some troops to defend the York Road, which brings us to: 4 - Of Ewell's three divisions: Rodes division had been fighting all day, Early's division had marched all morning arrived and also fought that day. Johnson's division had been the farthest away at dawn of the first day. They had marched all day and only arrived on the battlefield as night was falling. Ewell had no fresh troops. There is an excellent lecture about historical perception and this episode on RU-vid
The Confederate downfall at Gettysburg began with Lee ordering Ewell on the 1st day to take that hill if "practicable". Lee must've felt some responsibility for his uncharacteristic lack decisiveness. He probably couldn't believe such an innocuous comment would become so pivotal in what would be during point of the war. What a powerful vocal delivery from Sheppard. Really made me "tremble".
Lee never really got used to giving orders to a new commander. If he would of given the same order to Jackson; then they would of at least tried to take the hill. Yet Jackson died and he was left with someone new. So many missteps and miscalculations led to the confederates defeat at Gettysburg.
The Confederate downfall at Gettysburg began when Buford held fast and held the high ground until reinforcements arrived. Had Buford lost that advantage the Battle of Gettysburg would have been over before it started.
The difference was that "if practicable". Were that said to Jackson, it would have been done. Lee was truly missing his "right arm" in Jackson. Lee was not fully connected to Ewell nor AP Hill. And Ewell was a changed man returning from convalescence from his wound in the Seven Days. On the flapping of a butterfly's wings.
General Trimble mentioned the late General Jackson because Trimble wanted to emulate Jackson and go on the offensive to take that damn hill while it was more easily available. Lee said before to General Ewell to "Take the hill if practical." Which means do it. If Trimble had taken the hill they would have had it and if it was found to be useless, the CSA could have abandoned it anyways.
If practicable, Lee said. Practicable means possible with a good level of manpower left to hold the hill. Ewell would say he didnt have the men and ammunition, hence not practicable
@@SantomPh As some people say, Lee dfidn't like outright ordering his commanders around, so he used courteous language. Most of his officers would have seen the statement as is, an order. Ewell didn't and took it literally. Hence Trimble's outrage, he knew what Lee had meant.
Why not show the end of the scene, where Lee tells General Trimble that another assignment won't be necessary, and that he is essentially forgiven for his outburst (as well as Trimble's reaction to Lee's magnanimity)? Important to the scene, and to a greater understanding of the two characters, I'd say.
Important to remember that the movie Gettysburg was based on the historical fiction, The Killer Angels. While Gettysburg is a good dramatization of the events, a lot of the dialogue is apocryphal, meaning it probably never happened. A lot of southerners gave accounts after the war to put the blame on on Ewell, Longstreet, or Stuart, for Lee's failure at Gettysburg. Lee had sent Ewell an order to take Cemetery Hill, if possible, not Culp's Hill, with the additional proviso to do so only if he could do so without bringing on a general engagement. Ewell thought an attack possible, if supported by Hill, but Hill said Pender and Heth were spent and Lee held Anderson's division back as the army reserve. Rodes' division was wrecked in combat and disordered by its pursuit through the town, would have had to deploy from columns into lines under artillery fire, so was unavailable. Smith and Gordon were chasing phantom forces on the left flank and Hays was guarding 3000 Union prisoners in the town. That left Avery's small brigade available to Ewell to attack since Johnson's division had not yet arrived on the field. Ewell made the right decision. Lee has the ultimate responsibility, his order should have been clearer if he wanted an attack. As it was, by holding back Anderson's division, he did the prudent thing, accepting the day's gains as all that could be accomplished, since he had no idea what fresh troops the Union had on hand.
George Pickett had the best explanation for why the Confederacy lost at Gettysburg. When a reporter asked him why, he simply said "I've always thought the Yankees had something to do with it."
Can you imagine if it had been General Jackson moving down from the North onto the Union Flank on the first day instead of Ewell??? Meade wouldn’t even have considered concentrating at Gettysburg!
I read some diaries of Confederate soldiers stored in the archives at the Army Heritage and Education Center located adjacent to the Army War College - Carlisle Barracks, Carlisle, PA. The letters stated if General Jackson were alive and commanding that Corps.....they would have taken the hill and continued on to Washington, D.C. Yes, Chancellorsville was a victory for the Confederate Army....but a very costly " Pyrrhic" victory that began the defeat of the Army of Northern Virginia.
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Haw! I love how the rebels fouled up that one! Haw, I say! "If practicable," Granny Lee said. Ewell. Rhymes with mule. And Gen. George Greene, 62, the oldest general at Gettysburg, who was on Culp's Hill, was the one with the axes, building defensive redoubts and turned back the damn rebels each of the three days, the longest sustained assault of the entire battle. Sure, Little Round Top gets all the attention. But Culp's Hill, the barbed end of the Union fishhook defense, was of greater importance.
It is purported that after the Confederates failed to gain the Union high ground on the first day (July 1,) Longstreet suggested that the Confederate forces withdraw from Gettysburg and set up defensive positions around Cashtown, PA, a small settlement eight miles to the west. Longstreet reasoned the Union army would certainly follow, be pressured by Washington to prematurely attack, and smash themselves against the Confederate lines in a replay of Fredericksburg. Additionally, Longstreet also advocated the somewhat more hazardous tactic of marching south on the Emmetsburg Road and establishing positions threatening the Union army's left flank, again forcing the Union army to either withdraw or attack. Of course, Longstreet's suggestions were rejected by Lee. Almost certainly, if the Confederates had taken Culp's Hill and occupied Cemetery Ridge on the first day, Gettysburg would be remembered as simply a prelude to a larger battle soon after. The Union army's commanders were already making plans to withdraw forces from the Gettysburg area and concentrate in their own defensive positions south of Gettysburg, possibly near Littlestown, PA. (Reports that a strong defensive position was established on Cemetery Ridge led Meade to bring his other corps up to Gettysburg.) With this lull in the campaign, Lee would have had time to consolidate his own forces and plan his next move. It is, of course, very uncertain what sequences the Confederate invasion of the North would have then taken afterwards. However, it seems likely there would be the spectacle of two great armies establishing positions, each inviting the other to attack.
You must have been influenced by this faulty movie, which was based on the novel " Killer Angels", which IN TURN was based on Longstreet's memoirs, " From Manassas to Appomattox". The all seeing, all knowing Longstreet wrote many years after General Lee's death that HE knew better than his previously undefeated commander Marse Robert. Longstreet forgot that when Lee achieved his greatest victory at Chancellorsville, he himself was at Suffolk, Virginia guarding PEANUTS, while Stonewall Jackson crushed Hooker's men with his brilliant flank attack. Lee was plagued at Gettysburg by officers who would not obey the orders he gave them......ESPECIALLY Longstreet !! Lee had asked Jefferson Davis to allow Beauregard and his men to march North with him to achieve equal numbers with Hooker's army.......Davis refused. Knowing he would be outnumbered, Lee's plan was to draw out the Union Army in an arc, away from Washington, D.C. Lee knew that the frightened Lincoln would insist that Washington be covered by part of that army, and if coordinated properly, he could pounce upon each arriving Union corps with his whole concentrated force, as they arrived piecemeal and separately. This plan worked brilliantly the first day....until Ewell disobeyed his orders to take Culp's Hill......even AFTER Lee had sent subordinates to Ewell to reaffirm the order. The sulking and whining Longstreet compounded Lee' troubles by REFUSING to attack early in the morning on July 2nd AND 3rd, as Lee had ordered. This gave Meade time to receive hordes of reinforcements and to re-deploy forces . The Pickett/ Pettigrew charge was a last minute plan , forced on Lee when Longstreet failed to attack on time on the 3rd day. Longstreet FAILED to insure that the infantry advance was COVERED by supporting artillery, as ORDERED by Lee......the men advanced with NO counter fire to protect them. Jeb Stuart had failed to obey HIS written orders from Lee commanding him to " feel the right of the army" after crossing the Potomac at the " Point of Rocks". Then, Stuart failed in gaining the Union rear with his 10,000 man cavalry on day 3 when he came out of the woods at the Rummel Farm single file into a headlong suicidal charge of 750 7th Cavalry horsemen led by George Custer. Stuart could have been a giant " pincer" to cut the Union line in half in the rear as Pickett attacked as the other "pincer" from the front....it was not to be. Lee had to reorganize the entire command structure of his army after Stonewalls death, and THIS turned out to be the greatest reason he failed at Gettysburg. Stonewall would have made a huge difference. Lee's magnificent character was shown as HE ALONE took on all the blame, though many other commanders knew what really happened and who was responsible. Lee made Pickett destroy his battlefield report because it contained criticism of other officers who failed in their duty.......Lee took the blame and offered to resign later. Gettysburg was NOT the end of the war. Lee hurt Grant badly in the Wilderness and absolutely crushed Grant at Cold Harbor in a manner WORSE than Gettysburg......so bad that the Union defeat was kept out of the Northern newspapers for fear it would cost Lincoln the 1864 election. Lee was NO dummy, and Longstreet was NO Lee !!!
@@johnfoster535 Three points: 1) Actually, I agree that Longstreet's postbellum memoirs are suspect. it is why I opened my post with "It is purported that ...". If Longstreet actually did make his proposals to redeploy the Army of Northern Virginia away from the Gettysburg area, he most certainly did not press the strategies. As for the famous alleged confrontation when Longstreet told Lee to his face that the proposed attack on the Union center would certainly fail, I have long thought that when Lee insisted on carrying through the attack Longstreet should have point blank refused to carry out Lee's orders. Yes, I realize that Longstreet would have probably preferred to take a bullet in the chest than to defy his commanding general in such a manner, but such a move might have impressed upon Lee the basic futility of the attack. (Lee himself had to have known the chance of success in such a frontal assault were quite long.) That Longstreet did not do this but instead executed Lee's battle plan showed a basic moral failing on Longstreet's part. 2) No, Gettysburg was not the end of the war - but in retrospect it should have been. Many historians maintain that the fall of the Confederate garrisons at Vicksburg and Port Hudson ultimately sealed the faith of the Confederacy. In 1864 Confederate forces in the eastern theater fought the Union armies to an essential stalemate, but nevertheless Richmond and Petersburg came under siege. However, the war for the Confederacy was clearly lost in the western theater, with the fall of Atlanta, Sherman's armies rampaging through Georgia, and the Confederate Army of Tennessee all but destroyed at Franklin and Nashville. The reelection of Lincoln was effectively the final nail in the Confederate nation's coffin. By November 1864 it was obvious to all but the willfully blind that the Confederacy was ultimately doomed. 3) Yes, Lee did offer his resignation after Gettysburg; it was rejected by Davis simply because it was obvious there were no other generals which even approached Lee's stature and abilities. According to historian Bruce Canton, in retirement Dwight Eisenhower hosted British general Bernard Montgomery at Eisenhower's home outside of Gettysburg. Eisenhower gave Montgomery a personal tour of the Gettysburg battlefield. The two generals agreed that in the modern settings both Lee and Meade would have been dismissed after Gettysburg; Lee for the bloody failure of his campaign - Meade for his failure to follow up his victory and allowing the Confederates to escape back into Virginia.
With no one on the hill, and Lee say take it "if practicable, it was a no brainer to occupy it as fast as possible. The whole Confederate loss at Gettysburg is the result of this critical lack of decisive action by Ewell. He should have been relieved of duty right after Gettysburg!
Well, Culp's Hill wasn't empty. The 7th Indiana was there and remnants from the Iron brigade. They were digging trenches. Johnson's division didn't arrive in time. It was already dark. Johnson sent out a patrol that bumped into a union skirmish line. Johnson didn't have adequate knowledge of what was lying in front of him. There was also union troops to the left of him. According to me, this is an example of the fog of war. Trimble didn't go public with his accusation until after the death of Ewell, which weakens his point.
You're right. Blaming the dead it's nothing new in history. It's like Fuchida and Genda putting all the blame on Nagumo after he refuses to make a third attack wave on Pearl Harbor. They made their claims many years after Nagumo's death. Dead Man tells no tale.
Yea, and another Corp was behind that which was already formed with lines in place with reserves to call upon. Hitting the hill would've been a big mistake and would've changed how Gettysburg played out, mainly in how bad Day 2 and 3 turned out for the CSA. Meade may have been more aggressive on the left flank which would've been weakened by such a mistake. Trimble for all of his Jackson-esqe instinct...would've failed him at Culp's Hill. Union was ready for any advance there...and you really didn't want to fuck with the Iron Brigade...they broke the men under Harry Heath...they would've broken anyone else against them as well. It was because of the Iron Brigade - 1st Corps, 1st Division, the Black Hat Boys, along with the corps behind them and any other regrouping or reformed elements that would've torn them to shreds had they attempted.
SoulKiller7Eternal : you may be correct but if they were set on taking Cemetery Ridge, that was time to do it. It was only going to get more difficult with each passing hour. I blame Lee more than Ewell. Why should Ewell have ordered an attack when his commanding officer wasn’t willing to do so.
Darn right “General Jackson would not have stopped like this…with that hill empty….” Stonewall was legendary for marching his men farther and longer than any other commander. That is why the Yankees never knew where he would strike next….
What people will never appreciate again is that when these men said "I will take that hill" they literally meant they themselves. Brigadiers didnt ride jeeps around between tents while the enlisted and lower commissioned did the dying. They were out literally in the firing line or right behind it, mounted where they were obvious and at risk. Men ran into canister shot and enveloping fire from as many as 3 sides because a man they trusted said "Follow me."
The brigadiers are supposed to be making the battle plans. It's less heroic but certainly smarter to be at the back than at the front. The way they fought back then was rather idiotic at times. I'm sorry, I don't see it from your more romantic angle.
@@Ares99999 the Civil War was uniquely brutal because it combined the very earliest hints of how brutal industrialized combat was with the rigid, direct confrontation linear combat that muskets demanded to be effective. We hadn't learned any better yet.
In later wars, brigadiers stayed safely back in their HQ , far behind the firing line whenever their troops attacked. When it was over, they would race over in their jeeps to take credit for the victory.
I worked with Trimble's great-great-great grandson on the ambulance service near Atlanta back in the late '70s. Great guy. We really enjoyed playing Avalon Hill's "Gettysburg" game together.
Something to consider. In July 1863 Ewell had been out of action for almost a year. A division commander in Jackson's corps, he lost a leg at Cedar Mountain (August '62) and spent ten months in what passed for "rehab" in those days. This was his first assignment since the amputation, and his first assignment as a corps commander. How much firsthand knowledge had General Lee about Ewell's command skills in battle? Any at all? Remember, Lee became General In Chief in June 1862, just sixty days before Ewell was taken out of action 100 miles away from Lee's post. Did he simply presume Ewell, having served under Jackson, would possess the same boldness and ingenuity as his predecessor?
Just trying to wrap one's head around how much history could have changed is a monumental task, two Americas could have seen a United States that looked northward for expansion against a British Empire it had no reason to love, French influence in Mexico extended or even replaced with Confederate expansion. Would a divided America have landed on opposite sides of World War I or perhaps not gotten involved at all, and what might that have meant for the future of Germany and all of Europe? On these small what ifs turn the fates of great nations...
Lee gave an order to Ewell that he would've given to Jackson. Ewell was not Jackson. A minister in Richmond, after the war, offered this prayer: " Oh LORD. WhenThou in thine infinite wisdom didst ordain the Confederacy should fall, it was first necessary for Thee to remove Thy servant Stonewall Jackson". That line " And tomorrow, many a good boy will die taking that hill" is one of the most chilling statements I've ever heard. They never did take that hill... Deo Vindice.
Lee Desperately needed his Right Arm at Gettysburg. He fought with only his Left (Longstreet) His Right was lost 2 months before and without General Jackson the Army of Northern Virginia simply could not achieve the spectacular victories it had earned in 1862 and early 63.
Trimble's dramatics aside, the key question is why Johnson's Division was not on the field at 4pm to assault Cemetery Hill and did not arrive until 7pm. Rode's Division was blown from combat and would have had to form battle lines under artillery fire as the columns filed out of the Gettysburg street grid. Gordon and Smith were chasing phantom Federals on the extreme left, Hayes was guarding 3,000 prisoners, leaving Avery as Ewell's only disposable force. Ewell let Lee know that if Hill supported his right he could attack. Hill claimed that Heth and Pender were spent forces and could not participate in any assault, even though Lane and Thomas of Pender's Division were relatively fresh. Lee held back Anderson as his reserve to protect his right flank and the Chambersburg Road. Lee had told Ewell to take Cemetery Hill if practical without bringing on a general engagement, meaning with just the troops Ewell had on hand, that would not require the support of other troops then on the field, from Hill's Corps. Ewell basically determined that taking Cemetery Hill would require a general engagement and was therefore not practical. Johnson's Division was late getting to the field and was what Ewell needed at 4pm if he was to assault Cemetery Hill.
Just to be clear, what hill was Trimble referring to that he wanted to occupy? I assume that he wanted to advance on what we now know as the Culp's Hill/Spangler Spring area and move towards Cemetery Ridge at the end of the first day of battle? Is that correct? From what I understand, the federals had significant numbers in place as Reynolds had deployed his forces earlier in the day and had established defensive positions at and around that terrain.
Yes you are correct. It remains a controversy to this day. Although you are correct that Reynolds did have forces on those positions, they collided with the disorganized Union troops retreating through the town of Gettysburg and Ewell could have taken advantage of that since it took almost three hours for them to reorganize and for a proper defense to be mounted.
@@johnbertrand7185 Thank you for your response. In the movie, Trimble says that he begged Ewell for a division to occupy the area and then out of frustration reduces his request to a brigade. I just don't know how the confederates could have defended Culp's Hill with Meade bringing up 50,000+ troops (5 or more Corps) to fill in the fish hook by the end of the day. Despite the confusion you are discussing, the idea of the confederates defending a static position vs. Hancock, Howard, Slocum, Sykes and Sedgewick who is advancing up the Baltimore Pike seems impractical. In hind sight, Ewell's lack of aggression on the first day may have been a savior for the confederates. On the other hand, the fighting in this area lead by Ewell on day two was absolutely brutal. Ultimately, you're right, who knows? The fate of battles often turn on these on these simple decisions. The consensus by many is that Lee should have been more explicit in his orders to Ewell and that he should take some responsibility for Ewell's apparent inaction on day one of the battle.
Ewell didn't have Jackson's nerve. He was no replacement for Stonewall, obviously. The popular opinion is that Lee was the war's greatest commander, but I'm not so sure that's true; the reversal of the Army of Northern Virginia's fortunes coincide neatly with the loss of Jackson after Chancellorsville. You look at the major victories by the Army of Northern Virgina in '61 and '62, and some action by Stonewall Jackson was key to nearly all of them, for example the victory at Bull Run, before Lee was even in command. Jackson, in command of the troops that Ewell was promoted to command here after the former's wounding, would've taken those heights on his own initiative, I have no doubt of that. And then Gettysburg almost certainly would've had a much different outcome.
It's actually not clear if any commander could have taken that Hill. Ewell's corp had just spent the entire day marching and fighting. They had marched dozens of miles, fought a running battle through the town of Gettysburg, and rounded up thousands of Union prisoners. Taking the hill after doing all that would not have been easy. As for the Confederate Army as a whole, you neglect that their one prior offensive campaign before Gettysburg, Antietam, was a costly failure as well. So it's not so much having Jackson that was crucial to the ANV success, it was fighting defensively. Without having all the advantages of being a defender in their home state, the ANV didn't do so well.
@@frednone The problem for Lincoln at this time was that he was already resisting calls from Congress and the populace to negotiate peace. With what would have seemed to be an undefeatable Army of Northern Virginia besieging Washington DC itself after annihilating the Army of the Potomac, those calls would've become a deafening roar. And then the fall of Vicksburg so far to the south might not have mattered. With the threat on their doorstep, it's plausible a critical majority of Congress would've united against Lincoln, and forced him to accept the CSA's peace terms.
@@TheStapleGunKid I don't think you're aware of Jackson's specific reputation for command, his well known tendencies. *He was **_notorious_** for force marching his men to secure advantageous ground before a fight.* 100% he would've force marched to take the heights on the first day. Practically his entire battle record is highlighted by such actions.
You have to have some luck to win a battle. There were many reasons why the north won that battle. Lee wanting to attack a army on high ground is very risky. I believe if Lee had done what Longstreet suggested in making the union attack would of won it for the South.
I don't know why people keep bring this up. Lee and his army were in PA, not in VA...you can't afford to hang around in enemy terriorty when you are outnumbered and the enemy can reinforce and re-supply much faster than you. As Lee said later in the movie, "the Union is receiving guns by the thousands and Virginia has nothing left to send." If Lee was going to win, he needed to land a knock out blow - quickly.
@@markseslstorytellerchannel3418 all Meade have to do bring all man to one point and defend a present Lee know that the hills cannot be taken at day two Lee know that the center of the Union cannot be taken at day three Still he gives the attack command Even his Generals thought Lee is out of his mind and only follow slow his orders.. I think the pressure was to much for Lee Also longstreet was in his way no place for two leaders in Gettysburg
Not sure if Lee ever followed up on that report. This film seemed to give the impression that Lee was hesitant to chew anyone out unless it was his idea to do so.
This movie was chock full of Oscar worthy performances, but was completely ignored on "the big night" Our kids know practically nothing of our history. All they get out of Hollywood is marvel characters and video games brought to life. Absolute crap. No wonder our history repeats itself.
why wasn't this in the original film? also, i fkin love trimble's voice (well the actor's) and the way he carries himself here. such a great performance.
What was the actual situation? Were their federal troops on Culp's Hill or not? If so, in what strength? General Ewell has been criticized for 150 years now for not attacking, but I have never read anything that actually stated what, if any, force he was facing. Granted, he did not know, but it should be a matter of historical record now.
By the time Trimble is talking about i believe what was left of the Iron Brigade had taken up position on culps hill.so taking that hill might have been a lot harder than Trimble thought
lets remember something had ewell taken culp's hill he would threaten the right flank of the union and cut off there supply lines from cashtown and his order were to take the hill if necessary lets also remember longstreet had told lee to withdraw because nothing stood between him and DC and flank the union army and crush them
ONE of the GREATEST War movies ever made. Hollywood was definitely "under the scope to make sure they got it right! I'm damned glad they did. As to this scene; LOTS of people HATED Richard "Dick" Ewelll. The book tells it this way. "When a man looses something of himself " Most often his body, arm, leg, etc, he isn't the same anymore. That's what happened. Ewell lost his ability to function as a good soldier. But Lee had no choice; because, UNLIKE the North, The Confederacy could not match it in terms of manpower, equipment, guns, food, men, etc Another interesting thing is; the movie most of the time has the same lines spoken by the characters. As always; the movies are the "shortened version"
