In this video, I talk briefly about how commercial photographers come up with rates and estimates. Be sure to follow me on Facebook danielnortonphotographer/ And Instagram danielnorton To see some of the finished shots
You've really hit your stride with these videos, Daniel. They're fluff-free, eloquently presented, and packed with useful real-world information from an actual WORKING PRO, not some RU-vid dilettante. A big "thank you". Your efforts are much appreciated.
Thank you Sir, finally a video that actually helps understand the business side of photography. Got tired of people babbling on and on about gear, but actually not giving any constructive advice. 👏🏾
I am having a thrill while watching these videos! Great info and what dazzles me is that you are just talking, no script! Amazing! You know you're business! Cheers
Oh wow, what an informative video thank you! I'm in my 50's and back in the late 80's we learned as we went along, so glad that in todays world many up and coming creatives can see videos like this one and learned ahead of time. A while back I did work for a local magazine and the rate was in the low $1K for a whole day of shooting the spread and cover(shot on film)and that was just for the photographer they paid the talent on their own. I guess nowadays with digital its a different way of dealing with it. Keep creating great videos Sir!
Thank you so much , Daniel. This is the video I've been waiting for. I come from the world of pro audio (10 + yrs in the live field) and although I understand how this side of things work, there are still so many questions I have simply because it is a different animal. You continue to affirm my instinct and have helped me tremendously. I have signed up and am attending your workshop with Seth at this years Adorama Inspire next month. I look forward meeting you and I apologize in advance for all of the questions I have for you pertaining to the business end of things. Again, thank you!
That was a refreshing departure from the usual gear-head/Photoshop videos. The business side of photography. Most of my work is gallery, so I'm rarely on the hardcore commercial side of the equation. I learned a lot. Thanks.
Thank you Daniel for another great video, very informative. I think you have some of the most interesting photography videos, I haven't found anyone else that gives such insight in the photography business. I am not a professional but like to learn about your world.
TOTALLY BANG - ON the nail!! and it goes for the same as real estate sales people.. (I'm not one but...) Not every day or second day or fourth, fifth or even a week later do you come in contact with money like if you were getting paid by the hour... People who hire a photographer - regardless if skill level - should be very well aware and prepared to pay a substantial amount of money to have such talent fulfill their promotion or advertising banner's needs. We photographers get paid one day - $10k and six months later, might see another contract worth 5k or whatever... People on the "OUTSIDE" NEED to understand that we do NOT get paid every single day - $80 or $100.00/day like they do... Figure it out ppl! What Daniel Says makes PERFECT sense!!
You’re one of the best educators out there where photography and the business side meet. Love your photography and I always learn something new from watching your videos. Thank you. ✌🏼
Thanks Daniel. I was over from Norway visiting NYC last weekend and I just had to find Adorama to see if by chance you were there. I didnt see you but I did bump into Dave. Great to have been to the place and see it first hand.
Thank you Daniel for sharing your experience and knowledge. I find most of your ADORAMA videos entertaining and informative. I appreciate you taking the time to put these out. I have wanted to do some paid shoots but find it hard to estimate. I can see you take a very professional / business approach. I'm going to put my own fee structure together to start. I'm sure it will change over time. Your videos help me to differentiate myself from the Photographers that give their time away.
Great tips, Daniel - thank you. It's weird for me because I used to work as an assistant in TV and commercial production 15 or so years ago. After a stint as a teacher, I retired but now have started up a photography business. These days the industry seems to operate so differently (and I've forgotten so much🙄), so having you 'translate' this into modern terms is great!
More people, both, photographers that work part-time, full-time, as well as, the clients, must watch and understand this: Daily fee + Expenses + USAGE fee !!! Great video. So glad someone speaks out the facts about how things work.
Just started to really get into photography and one day want to make it a career so this video has been very helpful as have all of your others - thank you very much ☺️📷👍🏻
Thanks Daniel! By the way, I got a VR headset today and watched your 360 video with Marissa on it - very cool (but weird to look down and see that I was mounted on a tripod!)
Enjoy these videos with your insights & experience regarding photography business. I'm not doing any "large" projects but what I've experienced you are dead on with how you need to be with a client. Feel if everything that the client & self expect is discussed upfront it makes everything more enjoyable for all. One type of photography that I did in the past and don't believe I'll do again is weddings. I'll work as an assistant or second shooter and let someone else deal with all the details (and headaches) after the wedding day. No problems being given a checklist of things I'm responsible for doing or certain photos that need taken & then later either shadow main or go off to get other shots depending what main photographer wants. And must say I've found most problems come after the wedding day from family (mostly both or one Mom) rather than bride or groom. Go figure
Just like any part of the business, there are techniques for handling and getting the best results there. I recommend you check out videos by Vanessa Joy to see how she does it and you might find that weddings can be very enjoyable.
Thanks, Daniel! Sounds perfect to me. In my business, it's always "What do you have?", "What do you want?", "When do you want it?", and importantly, as you said, "No intellectual property changes hands until I've been fully paid." I do the same thing with a 50% deposit up front, with the balance due when I'm ready to deliver the files. If you don't follow simple rules like that, you can lose a LOT, and fast!
Sage advice and wise words as always Daniel. I've had a couple of prom shoots where it's just been a case of turn up, take shots, get paid and leave. The highlight of my 'career' so far was to shoot a British bulldog stud, a breeding bitch and a French bulldog stud. The shots were to be used for advertising purposes. No worries with payment, just don't let dog hump your leg, watch out for surprises on the lawn and keep the treats coming.👍
Important topic, thanks for doing this! Feel free to mention specific numbers for young, experience, or superstar photographers, to give us a sense of what the market is now and what we can aspire to!
Wonderful! Real good stuff! I hope that you can do a video on timing of a commercial shoot, that is from first connecting with a client until the project is complete. It seems to me that depending on the size and type of the project it can take 1-3 months, depending on negotiations, scheduling, etc. Would be great to get our real world experience knowledge.
I don't know any local magazines that pay photographers. I was once offered 10 usd for a cover, which is even less than travel expenses (not to mention renting a studio, etc.) They just accept TFP shoots, add prepared ads from advertisers and that's it, that's their business model.
This might sound wrong coming from a guy, but you just rang my bell! 😁 great content, thanks! (In fact, your the only one that rings my bell... I really need to get a life!)
Its a great talk. One thing I would add is that for magazines, they already have a set fee for a lot of their work. If it is your first time working for them you can ask how much is their budget for editorial or how much is their paparazzi rate for shooting celebrity parties. I used to pick up work on the side and it really helped me a lot when things were slow. I know in the beginning it is so stressful to find out how much to charge! Thanks for all the advice
Thanks for dealing with money and the real world. I find this super helpful. I work in the video corporate/documentary world and I have dealt with clients who are overseas. Getting money up front via money transfers to my bank account is very helpful. Or PayPal. It can be tricky dealing with a client who is completely out of your reach, as in another country, if you need to sue.
This is all stuff I have in my contract. I do not let them take all the image on a hard drive though. They license the images they want after reviewing on my website. I have them as low res so they can download and use for mock up but to get the high res images they pick them and let me know. I retouch them and deliver the final high res images with the usage rights as a separate document (with the images represented on the document). I only had a large book publisher take the images once and then worked with their license for usage. They rate was fair and the art director was very trustworthy. Everything else has been smaller companies where I have to educate them on usage rights payment on top of my rate to just create the images. Anywho... it is always good to hear validation from others that my process is sound and is how others work. =) love your videos. thanks for sharing.
Good info and as a professional student at the school of hard knocks, I recently did a wedding shoot, for a relatives relative. The up front money kept getting delayed, but it was "family" so I stupidly let it go. I did not have the heart to say no wedding day Photos to the bride so I took the photos and was promised by the bride,groom, mother of the bride etc that I would be paid in full as soon as I edited them, an outdoor wedding at 2 pm next to water so there was some editing to do, however my knowledge from Daniel Norton photographer about lighting really helped with the family photos. Needless to say, to keep my relative out of a hat field and McCoy battle, I ended up giving them a cd. When I was working as a mechanic I stopped working on families vehicles on the side for the same reason, you aren't appreciated or compensated for your, time,talent, equipment and skill. After this video I know how to deal with the next photo shoot I do, (hopefully never another wedding, I will refer them to Vanessa Joy!)
A couple years ago I was watching a documentary on TV about a New York photographer. One job they were scheduled to photograph included a Big Name singer. Everything was set up, the crew was waiting... and waiting... and waiting... Finally the Big Name showed up for the shoot. The problem was that the catering company, crew, studio rental, equipment rental, etc. were now on overtime rates. BUT the photographer had not included anything in his contract that covered all that overtime! The long and short of it was that the photographer had to pay ALL of the overtime costs out of his pocket which meant he actually lost money. So that taught me a lesson about including overtime considerations in my quotes. Especially if the shoot includes a Big Name. Terry Thomas... the photographer Atlanta, Georgia USA
Been through just about all that you said, 40 years later i pick and choose.Its the same here in Australia you have to sit down and think about the cost to you. I've worked for all sorts of clients and they all want it on the cheap., so much for years of experience.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I will take your advice, add some applicable laws from Germany and review my contracts now. Some magazines try to pay you with exposure. I did that once and I had the cover of a fashion magazine plus an 8-page feature in the same publication which made me feel very proud back then, yet it didn't pay my bills. I think one needs to create work that serepates you from what others put out in order to have more success and to be able to make a living off it.
That depends a lot on your market and who the client is. A good place to start is to look at high end stock photography prices for licensing and figure it should be more than that for sure
My wife is a freelance wedding photographer, doing her own photo editing. We have packages (2 hour, half day, full day). Also, we get 50% right after signing the contract and the rest when delivering the final, edited images. So far, we didn't have any problems. Oh, and we charge 20% extra if we are not allowed to use the images on our website/facebook/instagram because that means we have to spent time and potentially money to make up for that.
Another story about Picasso concerns a journalist who was interviewing him in his studio and afterwards picked a piece of paper with a single line drawn on it out of the wastepaper bin. "Can I keep this?" he asked. "Yes," replied Picasso. Emboldened, the journalist asked the master if he would sign it. Picasso did so, but as the man reached to take the paper from him he said: "One million dollars!" "What!" exclaimed the journalist, "One million for a single line?" "No," Picasso answered, "The line is free, but it's one million dollars for my signature!"
Interesting. I'm was an art director and creative director in UK for a long time and in the 90s £2,500 was standard day rate for an average photographer doing national press & poster campaign shoots. Many charge a lot more than that. I wish I had paid more attention to the tech that way I would have learnt something about actually taking pics rather than just having ideas.
Oh! Would it be possible to get a few photographers on at a round table discussion to talk about current magazines and magazine pay rates. I have been hearing a lot that magazines don't pay and that more and more published paper magazines are asking for photographers to pay to be published. My circle of photographer friends is small so it would be great to hear from a larger selection of people who are actively being published and hear their tales and what the rates are and what they have experienced. Thanks. =)
